squats with raised heels

RobAMerc

Hi all,

I see lads doing squats with raised heels in the gym.
Can anyone explain why and if its a good idea or not ?

Thanks
Rob

d'Oracle

By raised heels, do you mean a fellas heels lifting up off the ground towards the bottom of the squat or squatting with a plate or something (a shim) under the heel?

RobAMerc

yea - squatting with a plate under the heels.

The other I presume is just bad form.

TommyKnocker

I squat with a plate or wooden wedge (shim) under my heels as I was born with a clubbed left foot and the operations to remedy my condition left me with really bad mobility in my left ankle. Without the plate/shim, my left heal will come off the floor at the bottom of the squat and I feel unstable under heavy (for me) weight. With the plate I have no issues.

WalterMitty

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I squat with a plate or wooden wedge (shim) under my heels as I was born with a clubbed left foot and the operations to remedy my condition left me with really bad mobility in my left ankle. Without the plate/shim, my left heal will come off the floor at the bottom of the squat and I feel unstable under heavy (for me) weight. With the plate I have no issues.

Would weightlifting shoes not do the same thing but in a safer manner?

TommyKnocker

WalterMitty wrote: »

Would weightlifting shoes not do the same thing but in a safer manner?

Possibly, though I have never seen weight lifting shoes so I don't know. I have only just found a place in Ireland when they can be bought, so I might look into them.

Thing is that from the operations and the amount of time I spent with my left leg in plaster cast in my formative years, my left foot is also two sizes smaller than my right, so I would have to buy two pairs of shoes and basically throw away 1 pair :rolleyes:. So cost would be an issue and being able to try them on before buying would be important.

I get by in dress shoes by wearing extra socks on my left foot to stop the left shoe slipping off my foot Otherwise I would need a second job just to keep me in shoes

gavney1

Am also interested by this, as I've seen this also (though very rarely).

Cause I was under the impression that you're supposed to be driving through your heel as much as possible. I've heard recommendations even to try and raise your toes off the ground to emphasize this. Putting the weight under the heel would seem to do the opposite?

Unless the people I saw have the same issue as tommyknocker.

xgtdec

the advice i got that worked for me was instead of driving through the heel, to concentrate on raising the chest, this worked wonders for me in a rack, if i do squat in a smith i tend to hang on to the bar with my upper body knowing that the smith will support all of me, my heels tend to raise because of this even using the "chest up" way of thinking....so ...eh......dont squat in a smith machine;)

You would know me in a smith right away cause ill have a 1.25kg plate under both feet

d'Oracle

WalterMitty wrote: »

Would weightlifting shoes not do the same thing but in a safer manner?

Probably not if he is using a shim on one foot.
Probably would if someone is using a shim on both feet though.

I guess it would depend on the punter whose ankles are being addressed.

Brian?

I see a good few people doing this when really they should be working on their ankle and hip mobility.

Red Cortina

briankeating wrote: »

I see a good few people doing this when really they should be working on their ankle and hip mobility.

Are you saying then that you shouldn't go near a squat rack until you have decent ankle and hip mobility?

Parsley

briankeating wrote: »

I see a good few people doing this when really they should be working on their ankle and hip mobility.

Arnie did it. Should he have been working on his ankle and hip mobility?

Lantus

Taller folks can sometimes find that a low block under the heel can aid stability and overall balance. Arnie did this as he was taller and tended to find squats really tough as he leant forward more. Correct form is still important at all times. A small plate or block wont compromise that. If your in the 5ft something range it should be less of an issue.

Edwardius

Think it may have had somethin to do with the QUADZZZ he ended up with. Think Arnie was a powerlifter in austria (squattin 200 something and pulling 320 or so) and I doubt you could use that wood for a PL comp so it's entirely possible he can squat properly!

Brian?

Red Cortina wrote: »

Are you saying then that you shouldn't go near a squat rack until you have decent ankle and hip mobility?

No, I'm saying that if you need to put plates under your heels then there is something wrong that needs to be fixed. Now it could be mechanically wrong like Tommy Knocker or it could simply be poor mobility.

Parsley wrote: »

Arnie did it. Should he have been working on his ankle and hip mobility?

If Arnie jumped off a bridge would you do that too . I have no idea why he did it, but seeing as he competed as a powerlifter when he was young I am pretty sure he could squat deep without it.

The Davestator

It helps people with limited flexibility get to a good deep squat. Start with a large plate and work down until you dont need anything.
Worked for me

Parsley

Dead Ed wrote: »

Think it may have had somethin to do with the QUADZZZ he ended up with. Think Arnie was a powerlifter in austria (squattin 200 something and pulling 320 or so) and I doubt you could use that wood for a PL comp so it's entirely possible he can squat properly!

don't think arnie was ever a powerlifter actually.

and if arnie became one of the greatest bodybuilders ever by jumping off a bridge, then i'd put that in my chest workout :pac:

TommyKnocker

d'Oracle wrote: »

Probably not if he is using a shim on one foot.
Probably would if someone is using a shim on both feet though.

I guess it would depend on the punter whose ankles are being addressed.

I actually do squat with a plate under both feet. I tried just using the plate under the left foot and although it solved the ankle mobility issue it introduced a different issue, where it was like squatting with a leg length discrepancy. So although I have good mobility in my right ankle, I feel more "Balanced" if I use a plate under both heels.

Edwardius

Parsley wrote: »

don't think arnie was ever a powerlifter actually.

I second guessed and had a look at the evil google, there's mention of him lifting in the sixties

Parsley wrote: »

and if arnie became one of the greatest bodybuilders ever by jumping off a bridge, then i'd put that in my chest workout :pac:

You need to find a Lou Ferrigno and some weed too though. it's all part of the package.

Parsley

Dead Ed wrote: »

I second guessed there and had a look at the evil google there and there's mention of him lifting in the sixties

that's interesting, never knew that. been reading his book and whenever he mentioned powerlifting it was always something to do with Franco...

You need to find a Lou Ferrigno and some weed too though. it's all part of the package.

L can be my Lou. i'm sorted.

d'Oracle

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I actually do squat with a plate under both feet. I tried just using the plate under the left foot and although it solved the ankle mobility issue it introduced a different issue, where it was like squatting with a leg length discrepancy. So although I have good mobility in my right ankle, I feel more "Balanced" if I use a plate under both heels.

Get a pair of weightlifting shoes dude.;)

TommyKnocker

d'Oracle wrote: »

Get a pair of weightlifting shoes dude.;)

If only it were that simple. Firstly they are not widely available in Ireland, only know (since today) to two possible places that sell them in Ireland.

Secondly, my left foot is size 6 while my right is size 8, and I am not sure if either place have WL shoes in a size 6 or even if they are made that size.

Thirdly, I would need to be able to try them on, as I have no intention of buying them if this is not possible. So if either place only get them in to order then that's not much use to me.

Lastly, is the economic consideration. As I have to buy 2 pairs and pretty much throw one pair straight into the bin, price per pair would be a definite consideration.

Can anybody in the know tell me what benefit I would get (if any) using proper WL shoes over using plates/a wooden wedge?

Hanley

Could you just get a pair of 8's and stick and insole or something into them?

If you get ones with velcro fastenings they can be locked up quite tight too.


Disclaimer: I've no affliation with shoes, other than the fact I wear them.

Mauricmo

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Possibly, though I have never seen weight lifting shoes so I don't know. I have only just found a place in Ireland when they can be bought, so I might look into them.

Thing is that from the operations and the amount of time I spent with my left leg in plaster cast in my formative years, my left foot is also two sizes smaller than my right, so I would have to buy two pairs of shoes and basically throw away 1 pair :rolleyes:. So cost would be an issue and being able to try them on before buying would be important.

I get by in dress shoes by wearing extra socks on my left foot to stop the left shoe slipping off my foot Otherwise I would need a second job just to keep me in shoes

sorry to hijack- but where is the place in ireland that does sell the shoes?

or if anybody knows where to find them online?

Scuba Ste

Mauricmo wrote: »

sorry to hijack- but where is the place in ireland that does sell the shoes?

+1, I had to get mine online.

Cheapest place online I've seen is nerlinger.com

Tommyknocker, I've seen it recommended to use bowling shoes as a cheaper sub for weightlifting shoes. They have a raised wooden heel too. If your not oly lifting in them they might be ok. I've never tried that though.

sesna

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I squat with a plate or wooden wedge (shim) under my heels as I was born with a clubbed left foot and the operations to remedy my condition left me with really bad mobility in my left ankle. Without the plate/shim, my left heal will come off the floor at the bottom of the squat and I feel unstable under heavy (for me) weight. With the plate I have no issues.

Hi Tommy, could you tell me where you bought the wooden wedge?

I have been looking online for one but can't find any. I saw them in American gyms before.

TommyKnocker

Mauricmo wrote: »

sorry to hijack- but where is the place in ireland that does sell the shoes?

or if anybody knows where to find them online?

I believe that East Coast Barbell either sell or can get them for you. See this post from a thread from earlier today.

Also buykettlebelldublin also see them. Not sure how the brand they sell is viewed by those in the know.

sesna wrote: »

Hi Tommy, could you tell me where you bought the wooden wedge?

I have been looking online for one but can't find any. I saw them in American gyms before.

At the moment I am using a crude DIY version, though I am looking into getting a decent one knocked up. They used to have two good ones in WW Clontarf, but they seemed to vanish when they let all their managers and some trainers go 2 years ago


Disclaimer: I have no affiliation what so ever with either East Coast Barbell or buykettlebelldublin!

TommyKnocker

Hanley wrote: »

Could you just get a pair of 8's and stick and insole or something into them?

If you get ones with velcro fastenings they can be locked up quite tight too.


Disclaimer: I've no affliation with shoes, other than the fact I wear them.

Again as they are not widely sold in Dublin or indeed Ireland I cannot be sure and I am not prepared to buy a pair on spec just in case your idea doesn't work. I woul d need to be able ot go to a shop that stocks them an try them out.

I know that I used to do quite a bit of running (circa 50 miles/wk) and initially tried using the same size shoes and wearing 3 socks on my left foot to take up the space. But I still found my foot slipping inside them and the arch support would end up as heel support :rolleyes: So I had to go with buying two pairs. BUt at circa €100/pair to throw one pair away got old pretty fast, especially at the rate I was going through them.

Scuba Ste wrote: »

+1, I had to get mine online.
Tommyknocker, I've seen it recommended to use bowling shoes as a cheaper sub for weightlifting shoes. They have a raised wooden heel too. If your not oly lifting in them they might be ok. I've never tried that though.

When you say bowling shoes are you talking 10 pin bowling or lawn bowls? I used to do 10 pin bowling when I was younger, and the shoes I wore had a rubber sole and the heal was no higher than a normal dress shoe. A heel that size would be of no help to me as me heel would still raise up in the bottom of the squat.

Hanley

If you want a really high heel, and do end up buying some... the Do Win shoes are the ones to look at.

Sangre

Do people who get weightligting shoes use them exclusively for oly lifting/squatting or do you use them also for PL squatting (i.e., wider stance) or other lifts?

Hanley

Sangre wrote: »

Do people who get weightligting shoes use them exclusively for oly lifting/squatting or do you use them also for PL squatting (i.e., wider stance) or other lifts?

*stops himself ranting about oly versus PL squats...

Look at real powerlifting in the IPF - most of those guys have a slightly outside shoulder width stance, going below parallel and smashing huge weights.

I wore mine from like 2007 onwards for all my PL comps. Make a massive difference. Much better to squat in, imo.

Mellor

gavney1 wrote: »

Cause I was under the impression that you're supposed to be driving through your heel as much as possible. I've heard recommendations even to try and raise your toes off the ground to emphasize this. Putting the weight under the heel would seem to do the opposite?

I don't see why you would think that. your heel is rasied, but it is still in contact with a solid base. You heel still takes your weight.

Red Cortina wrote: »

Are you saying then that you shouldn't go near a squat rack until you have decent ankle and hip mobility?

No he is saying that you should work on mobility from the start, so that when you reach big weights you can still squat without having to use plates like that

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Lastly, is the economic consideration. As I have to buy 2 pairs and pretty much throw one pair straight into the bin, price per pair would be a definite consideration.

It should be important to find somewhere to try them on. Somebody might even offer to let you try theirs.
Try contacting the manufacturer direct, explain about the foot difference. They may help you out and ship you one pair.
Even if not, the extra cost of one pair of shoes is a lot less than if you injury yourself.

I've used plates under heels in the past. But i stopped when the weights were getting high and I had concentrate more when unracking. Don't want to step back and missed a plate/wedge