The success of Magners League matches on free to air: Your opinions

some_dose

Well it has been a few months now since they have started showing ML matches on RTE, TG4 and BBC. In my opinion, this strategy has been a huge success. I really do believe that it has significantly increased the profile of rugby in Ireland and the other Celtic nations alike. Friends of mine who were traditionally into soccer and wouldn't have had time for rugby before have taken up watching matches on a Friday/Saturday evening.

What are yere thoughts? Has it been successful?

durkadurka

Agree, and I don't have to watch on dodgy Internet feeds! Tg4 is a bit of a pain though

some_dose

durkadurka wrote: »

Agree, and I don't have to watch on dodgy Internet feeds! Tg4 is a bit of a pain though

Perhaps it is but it's a price worth paying and also benefits those in the Irish speaking community who follow rugy (however small a minority it may be). I would love to see them go down the lines of S4C and do English commentary too.

profitius

I've been saying it for years that having matches on FTA TV is a great way to grow the game.

Theres so many general sports fans out there that are starting to get into rugby because its on TV more. The more they see it the more they get into it and become fans. I know this because thats what happened to me.

I wasn't interested in rugby during the 90's (probably watch an odd 6N game), didn't know any of the players, rules etc. Then the HEC started to take off around 2000 and Ulster winning it then Munster started to become a force and all of a sudden there was more rugby in the media and on TV etc and now I love it!

Having it on FTA TV will have a bigger impact in the long term. In the short term it might mean a few more empty seats because people are watching it at home but overall way more people are now watching rugby and thats good. Parents will bring their kids to rugby etc and it'll have a knock on effect that way.

If Ireland have a good world cup who knows what it would do for the game. There was a big rise in playing numbers after Ireland won the grand slam and there would be too with a successful world cup.

ambid

I hate it. I think the quality of analysis is much worse than Setanta. I miss the quality analysis of Emmet Byrne and Liam Toland. Many of the RTE analysts (especially Hook) don't seem to take the league seriously. Others, like Frankie Sheehan and Victor Costello, say absolutely nothing insightful.

I hate TG4. I don't speak Irish so can't follow the games. If they're trying to grow the game I think it's a mistake to broadcast it in a language which most people in this country don't understand.

Give me Setanta any day.

Good thread topic by the way.

some_dose

profitius wrote: »

Having it on FTA TV will have a bigger impact in the long term. In the short term it might mean a few more empty seats because people are watching it at home

This.

Logically you're right - people watching it at home means less arses on seats in stadiums. But I don't think this is the case. Certainly for me, seeing matches on tv increased my appetite to actually go to the matches and as a result I've been to more than I usually have.

durkadurka

Anyone any stats on viewing figures?

Cpt_Blackbeard

It would be a great idea if the province's games were equally spread out amongst RTÉ and TG4. Currently, the majority of Leinster's game are on RTÉ and Munster's on TG4 which is ridiculous tbh. Its discouraging the watching of rugby in Munster due to the population's ineptitude with our native language and the píss-poor analysis.

phog

I've mixed views - I think the standard of TV coverage is very hit and miss, they seldom replay an incident, poor analysis, Italian TV seems to have gone bust and TG4 should really go multilingual and present some of their pre and post analysis in English.

I wonder do the clubs still receive the same TV rights money?

durkadurka

I'm happy enough just to see the games. The analysis in here is better most of the time. Provided you filter it

profitius

phog wrote: »

I've mixed views - I think the standard of TV coverage is very hit and miss, they seldom replay an incident, poor analysis, Italian TV seems to have gone bust and TG4 should really go multilingual and present some of their pre and post analysis in English.

I wonder do the clubs still receive the same TV rights money?

I'd say so. I think I heard before that if the game did grow in Italy and Italian TV companies payed more for the rights then the Celtic nations would benefit. At the moment Irish TV is probably paying the most so the Scots in particular benefit.

The coverage on RTE has been shocking in the sense that they dismiss the league! On sky the Aviva Premiership is hyped up to the max. Celtic rugby should have a word with RTE and tell the to stop talking it down. Its a better competition than Hook believes. Hook meanwhile couldn't name any player besides the internationals.

phog

profitius wrote: »

The coverage on RTE has been shocking in the sense that they dismiss the league! On sky the Aviva Premiership is hyped up to the max. Celtic rugby should have a word with RTE and tell the to stop talking it down. Its a better competition than Hook believes. Hook meanwhile couldn't name any player besides the internationals.

Prior to the league going FTA Hook admitted that he didn't watch it. So he has only started to watch it since he got paid that probably means he only watches the games that RTE actually cover. If that is the case how would he know the players or be able to do much analysis.

Guy:Incognito

phog wrote: »

I wonder do the clubs still receive the same TV rights money?

This is the issue. if they're not then this season is not when you'll see the impact of less money, it'll be next year or the followign year, when the bigger money is spent .

As for TG4's coverage in Irish? I hate it personnally. I doubt theres even 1 person watching it that cant speak English as well as Irish, but theres loads that can only speak English.

Sangre

Only had a negative impact on me personally however, that doesn't mean it hasn't been a success generally. I've no opinions on the latter.

I options to view a smaller number of games and then analysis and coverage on these is poor imo. I never thought I'd miss commentary but the Irish commentary does bug me!

One positive I do like is the streaming by rte/tg4 on the matches when I'm not arsed turning on tv and giving match full attention. Or even to replay a match I missed.

Buceph

To be honest, I don't give a crap about the analysis, and will watch on the UK channels for better commentary.

The Six Nations analysis is complete crap. While I'm sure there's plenty of half-interested people who love getting the crap Hook feeds out, I'm constantly annoyed by it. Brent Pope is the only interesting one there, helped by the fact that he talks things up and is generally positive or at least brings out some positives at the least, but he's shouted over by Hook and McGurk does nothing to help.

The Magner's coverage isn't as outright annoying, but Frankie Sheahan and Costello are boring, and don't say anything of note. Again, it might be alright if you don't know much about rugby, but generally they say nothing to insightful. The only way it could get worse is if Alan Quinlan joins next year, the man is more boring than a Leinster/Munster bitch fight on here.

The actual coverage is fine, I get to see the match, what more do I want. Although I wish they'd stop doing the "the man in the van" analysis, it's completely pointless and makes a huge deal of once off happenings, and 90% of the time you end up missing at least a lineout or scrum and generally the play that develops from it.

The commentary is also crap. Ryle Pukegent is in love with the Leinster stars, George Hamilton spends half the time just telling you who has the ball and the other half explaining things like how you can't throw the ball forward in rugby. Yer man Cahill doesn't understand what "They have men outside/over" means. He thinks it's that there are people standing on the wings, when it really means there's an overlap available. And all of the commentators say the infuriating "Munster have." Have bloody what? And they all seem to announce turnovers or possible turnovers when there's none on.

But despite all the negatives, I think it being on FTA is a good thing. It means I can watch from my home (my parents wouldn't pay for Sky or Setanta, we have the FTA satellite) or I can watch from my friends place who simply couldn't afford the pay-satellite options.

I'd be certain that more people watch because of it being on FTA. And that can only be a good thing. I'd be delighted if they got better at commentary and analysis, because once you come on here, or the provincial sites like MunsterFans you get much better analysis. Some hurf blurf, but some gold underneath it all.

But generally, I think it's good for the Magners to have it on FTA in Ireland and the UK. Setanta showed that it couldn't support a station, and Sky wouldn't give it the coverage it needs. So while it grows it should be on terrestrial channels.

All that being said, when I save Bill Gates daughter (who just so happens to be on a holiday on Ireland) from a mugger, and he gives me a couple of billion quid as a reward, I'll start up RTE Sport as a station, and get better coverage going.

Imagine a "Hard Knocks" (The HBO show) following each of the provinces on alternating years throughout their Magner's league run, with backstage access and interviews and the like. It'll be great. Just need those billions first.

Digifriendly

ambid wrote: »

I hate it. I think the quality of analysis is much worse than Setanta. I miss the quality analysis of Emmet Byrne and Liam Toland. Many of the RTE analysts (especially Hook) don't seem to take the league seriously. Others, like Frankie Sheehan and Victor Costello, say absolutely nothing insightful.

I hate TG4. I don't speak Irish so can't follow the games. If they're trying to grow the game I think it's a mistake to broadcast it in a language which most people in this country don't understand.

Give me Setanta any day.

Good thread topic by the way.

Can't receive Setanta so can't comment on comparing their coverage/analysis with RTE/TG4. As regards TG4 and the Irish language I can understand your frustration but the Scots have the same problem with BBC Alba and I guess a smaller proportion of Scots speak in their native tongue than Irish. S4C have an English language option which to be honest I rarely use as sound of atmosphere and crowd reaction seems muffled on it. But let's not forget all ML matches on these islands are FTA and as a result achieve a bigger audience than being on subscription. BTW BBC NI's coverage of Ulster games (both home and away) is excellent and in my opinion the analysis is pretty good. Don't know the figues but can only guess going on those rugby fans I know here when ML was live in Ireland only on Setanta, subscribers north of the border would have been quite small.

CatFromHue

i suppose how do you define success?

i liked the setanta package for the magners league and i thought their presenters / analysts were very good.

im not so keen on alot of bbc /tg4 / rte's analsyts though, popey and lenihan excepted.

so i think the standard of the analysis product has gone down.

i would imagine the viewing figures would have to be up on anything setanta had, just from the leinster v munster games alone, which from the league and magners point of view is a success.

it must be said that the irish teams doing well has helped.

tolosenc

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

It would be a great idea if the province's games were equally spread out amongst RTÉ and TG4. Currently, the majority of Leinster's game are on RTÉ and Munster's on TG4 which is ridiculous tbh. Its discouraging the watching of rugby in Munster due to the population's ineptitude with our native language and the píss-poor analysis.

Munster, Ulster and Connacht have Gaeltachtaí. Leinster doesn't.

phog wrote: »

TG4 should really go multilingual and present some of their pre and post analysis in English.

Should RTE do it in Irish also?

/nitpicking

I think it's great for the game, even if I rarely watch any of it.

Buceph

tolosenc wrote: »

Munster, Ulster and Connacht have Gaeltachtaí. Leinster doesn't.

Fair enough. But when the census results come out, and we see that the most Irish speakers of any province are in Leinster, then I think you'll agree that all future Leinster games should be shown on TG4. It's only fair.

Podge_irl

phog wrote: »

I wonder do the clubs still receive the same TV rights money?

I fail to see why they wouldn't. RTÉ/TG4 outbid Setanta, it wasn't put on the FTA list of anything.

It's a success insofar as it allows more people to watch the games, and slightly more people watch it then I was expecting. That can only be a good thing, the ML is still far too unknown in general and people have too low an opinion of it (mostly out of ignorance). On the other hand, I think the product on Setanta was a lot better in terms of analysis and commentary.

overshoot

leinster does have a gealtacht in meath... i have in my head that there is one in waterford too for some reason and leinster does supposedly boast the highest amount of irish speakers in the country... but id doubt 50% of them could have a proper conversation (fair play to those who can... i wish i could)

[Jackass]

Absolutely agree OP.

I have to admit to being wrong on this one, I thought it was going to be an absolute disastor, and RTE's track record of sport coverage had me nervous, but with this latest arrangement, I feel the Magners League has got prime time slots, better profile, the coverage quality is actually better imo, and to a bigger audience, and I was only thinking the other day, "wow, rugby is really main stream in Ireland, possibly even getting more coverage than GAA or football in live TV in this country"

On top of this, we've got the FTA 6 nations, we've got replays on FTA Setanta of all the games, as well as schools rugby, against the head and the breakdown TV shows...really happy.

My only concern remains over the funding of the game and RTE using the Government to intrude on the industry of sport and the financing of it.

But I think it's been great for the sport in this country and I think the popularity has grown immensely, and I think Leinster in particular are benefitting as the pool of supporters grows far beyond the traditional areas which is great.

some_dose

overshoot wrote: »

leinster does have a gealtacht in meath... i have in my head that there is one in waterford too for some reason and leinster does supposedly boast the highest amount of irish speakers in the country... but id doubt 50% of them could have a proper conversation (fair play to those who can... i wish i could)

You are aware that Waterford is in Munster, right?

So would the general consensus be that if we had the Setanta analysis team commentating on RTE and TG4 (broadcasting bilingually) then we would be set?

Sin a bhfuil

VW sponsor the coverage on RTE2 (and are also a sponsor of Leinster Rugby). Presumably they wouldn't be too keen on sponsoring Toyota sponsored Munster and that is probably why Munster don't feature too frequently on RTE2.

Amazotheamazing

I seem to be in a minority in that I don't mind the commentary in Irish, I like that I can improve my irish from week to week, it's already better now than it was last Sept. On the otherhand, i don't think the guys speaking Irish are much good as commentators or analysts. There must be better out there.

I actually find the english speakers on RTE more annoying tbh.

jacothelad

ambid wrote: »

I hate it. I think the quality of analysis is much worse than Setanta. I miss the quality analysis of Emmet Byrne and Liam Toland. Many of the RTE analysts (especially Hook) don't seem to take the league seriously. Others, like Frankie Sheehan and Victor Costello, say absolutely nothing insightful.

The merit of having Frankie on the show is that he knows before hand that TOL or Wally will be man of the match.

durkadurka

He's a visionary

CatFromHue

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I like that I can improve my irish from week to week.

i agree i find my irish vocabulary increasing too

i now know the irish for tuitupo, nacewa, wannenberg, pienner.......:D

tolosenc

Buceph wrote: »

I think you'll agree that all future Leinster games should be shown on TG4. It's only fair.

Is cuma liom! Gaeilge líofa agam - ón scoil amháin, creid é nó ná creid!

DDC1990

TG4 coverage is great.
Don't blame the Channel if you're to thick to understand it. Your fault not theirs.
Good analysis, good commentary, and vastly better then that Ulster fellah on Setanta, who creams himself everytime someone comes close to scoring against Munster.
Just because the lads arn't well known players doesn't mean they don't know the game.
Their analysis on the Connacht games are especially good, with great knowledge of the players and goings on at the club.

TG4 Abú

Digifriendly

[Jackass] wrote: »

On top of this, we've got the FTA 6 nations, we've got replays on FTA Setanta of all the games, as well as schools rugby, against the head and the breakdown TV shows...really happy.

Is Setanta's delayed coverage of ML 'in the clear' on satellite? BTW I should have said that BBC Alba has pre/halftime/post match analysis in English with match commentary only in Scots' Gaelic so maybe TG4 should take a leaf out of their book.

Buceph

Digifriendly wrote: »

Is Setanta's delayed coverage of ML 'in the clear' on satellite? BTW I should have said that BBC Alba has pre/halftime/post match analysis in English with match commentary only in Scots' Gaelic so maybe TG4 should take a leaf out of their book.

No. Only with Sky and NTL/Chorus/UPC.

You can't pick it up with a Freesat receiver.

totallegend

RTE's coverage would be improved by revising their panel of pundits; Frankie Sheahan reminds me of Jamie Redknapp, sounds like he knows his stuff but never says anything controversial. In my opinion, he is too recently retired and too close to the current players to really be impartial. RTE have continued in this vein by bringing in Quinlan and Dempsey for Against The Head.

For me, Emmett Byrne is one of the best pundits around, really knows his stuff (especially in front-row play where most of us need a bit of guidance) and is out of the game long enough to stick the boot in where needed. Bit of a monotonous voice though...

bleg

Most Munster matches seem to be on TG4 so I watch less of them now. The pub also loses out on business because I'd usually head down for a pint or two and watch the match if it was on Setanta.

Idea: great, implementation: awful. Give it to us in English please.

Luckycharm

Been better then expected they are showing more matches then I thought they would. Main downside if George Hook get more airtime :mad:

profitius

I can't understand the complaining about TG4. Remember that a few years back they were showing celtic league rugby when nobody else would. Fair play to them.

I think we're in a better situation than English people are because they have to pay sky and ESPN to watch AP matches. I have Setanta Ireland and thought the coverage was much better than TG4 or RTE but its good for rugby in the country if everybody can see the matches.

There will be/have been twice as many Leinster matches than Munster matches on RTE this season. Thats simply because RTE is based in Dublin and they support Leinster.

CouchSmart

profitius wrote: »

Thats simply because RTE is based in Dublin and they support Leinster.

?

profitius

CouchSmart wrote: »

?

I mean the reason theres twice as many Leinster matches on RTE is simply because of bias. If I was in charge of RTE I'd have more Munster matches on.

Amazotheamazing

CouchSmart wrote: »

?

RTE is a sheltered living facility for former students from Blackrock who can't fully cope with the real world. It's kinda heroic to hear Ryle manfully pretend to be a "grown-up" in a "real" job.

Amazotheamazing

profitius wrote: »

I mean the reason theres twice as many Leinster matches on RTE is simply because of bias. If I was in charge of RTE I'd have more Munster matches on.

I'd say Sin was closer to the mark, if the show is sponsored by one car company they don't want Toyota getting a massive advertisement.

CouchSmart

Surely it's got to do with money not bias. More people watch Leinster on t.v. so advertisers pay more, it's just good business from RTE.

Amazotheamazing

CouchSmart wrote: »

Surely it's got to do with money not bias. More people watch Leinster on t.v. so advertisers pay more, it's just good business from RTE.

I'd have my doubts that significantly greater number watch either Leinster or Munster when they are on RTE, have you viewing figures to back that up?

CouchSmart

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I'd have my doubts that significantly greater number watch either Leinster or Munster when they are on RTE, have you viewing figures to back that up?

Have you got evidence that RTE selects which games to choose based on bias? If you look at it logically there's a larger base in Leinster = more viewers. Also, from RTE's point of view it involves them driving their gear 10 minutes down the road to set up the cameras etc.

The idea that RTE 'supports' Leinster is absurd. One of the most stupid things I've read on here in a long time.

Its devastating for me, having moved from Ireland approx 3 weeks before the first game on RTÉ!

Means its hard to find streams for a lot of games, as RTÉ.ie is Island of Ireland only.

Oh please wont someone think of the ex-pats!

phog

It's probably more to do with increasing RTE2 viewing figures than anything else. If right was right the 4 provinces should have equal coverage on TG4 and RTE.

Amazotheamazing

CouchSmart wrote: »

Have you got evidence that RTE selects which games to choose based on bias? If you look at it logically there's a larger base in Leinster = more viewers. Also, from RTE's point of view it involves them driving their gear 10 minutes down the road to set up the cameras etc.

The idea that RTE 'supports' Leinster is absurd. One of the most stupid things I've read on here in a long time.

I didn't say RTE supporter Leinster, I'm part of the minority that like TG4.

All I asked for was some figures to back up your assertion, which would move the discussion from the realm of supposition to fact.

CouchSmart

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I didn't say RTE supporter Leinster, I'm part of the minority that like TG4.

All I asked for was some figures to back up your assertion, which would move the discussion from the realm of supposition to fact.

Nope no evidence, just coming to logical conclusions. Why weren't you as quick to ask for evidence from prof. surely his outrageous statement should be questioned more than mine?

Anyway, no point derailing a good thread.

Amazotheamazing

CouchSmart wrote: »

Nope no evidence, just coming to logical conclusions. Why weren't you as quick to ask for evidence from prof. surely his outrageous statement should be questioned more than mine?

Anyway, no point derailing a good thread.

I didn't think it was worthy of debate tbh, RTE give Frankie Sheahan money, they can't be that biased against Munster. I'd say the nearest to the truth is to look at the coverages' sponsor.

profitius

CouchSmart wrote: »

Nope no evidence, just coming to logical conclusions. Why weren't you as quick to ask for evidence from prof. surely his outrageous statement should be questioned more than mine?

Anyway, no point derailing a good thread.

The idea that RTE 'supports' Leinster is absurd. One of the most stupid things I've read on here in a long time.

RTE is Dublin dominated and as we all know, a bit of an old boys club. I don't think its beyond reason to suggest some people are biased in certain ways. Just like most TV shows RTE make are based in Dublin I think they're also more interested in showing Leinster matches.

I'm not saying they're anti Munster or anything like that. I'm just saying that RTE is biased towards Leinster and maybe they might not even realise it themselves. Sometimes it can be a subconscious thing or sometimes not.

Even if you say its alot easier for them to show the matches in Dublin well I agree with that because everything is based in Dublin, which is my point.

We'll agree to disagree on this one!

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

I'm just saying that RTE is biased towards Leinster and maybe they might not even realise it themselves

Indeed, Hook's always been a big fan of us


I wouldn't read too much into which station gets what. Sure TG4 got the Leinster - Munster game, and that's Leinster's biggest ML game of the season. No doubt there is some back room shenanigans that goes on to decide it all.

Legion2008

Going back to the original question, I find I'm watching less matches than before, in some cases because I have to search around for them and others because I can't see them ....

I've the basic UPC package so therefore had Setanta Ireland for free, I used to settle down on a friday/saturday/sunday and watch the majority of games including those between the welsh and scottish sides, now I can only see games that involve an irish side.

Analysis was better on Setanta too in my opinion.