The Triax TR112 Saorview Box has landed 21/3/11

Digital Satellite TV

note: should read 22/3/11 - Don't even know what day it is:-)

Just a heads up for boardsies. The long awaited arrival of the Triax Saorview box has finally happened. They are now in the country. If they are not available already, I'm sure they will be online / on shelves in the next couple of days.

Just to be aware, there is a very limited number of them available. An advanced batch was flown in to Ireland ahead of the arrival of the shipping containers which are due in a couple of weeks.

To the best of our knowledge, there are only 300 in the initial batch (country wide) but as above there will be piles of them in the first major shipment.

glineli

Thanks for that. Any idea on price?

Digital Satellite TV

glineli wrote: »

Thanks for that. Any idea on price?

The RRP is around €110 inc VAT

watty

Too expensive. About €10 more than the overly expensive Walker box.

It should be about €85 inc VAT., maximum. It's not a deluxe product.


I'd recommend people wait unless they are desperate. Similar spec UK "Freeview HD" boxes are about £45 inc VAT in the UK "High Street" (under €80). They have 20% VAT now.

liamtech

Thats way to expensive in my opinion - what benefits over the walker does this box even have - i used to think brand wise triax were great, but after the fiasco with the 537, im not so sure -

The walker unit seems to be getting a relatively ware reception - possible PVR USB function at some stage - and you can get it for 89euro in store (re badged Krystal units on the internet for 60incl shipping)

watty

Triax are a Dish and Aerial maker. I'd buy their dishes.


Don't hold your breath for USB recording on current Walker though.

Digital Satellite TV

Don't shoot the messenger. Only letting people know the news.

Of course prices will come down in time. But sure no one would ever buy anything if it worked like that:-)

glineli

Thanks for the price post.
I see there is no scart out so i will have to pass. I have a few older tvs that i need the boxes for with only scart.

Rear Panel
RF IN (Antenna in)
RF OUT (Antenna out)
USB Port: For PVR & Media Player Functionality (also Software upgrades)
RF Loopthrough Output Connector
SPDIF (Digital Audio Output)
HDMI Socket
12V DC input

Digital Satellite TV

glineli wrote: »

Thanks for the price post.
I see there is no scart out so i will have to pass. I have a few older tvs that i need the boxes for with only scart.

Rear Panel
RF IN (Antenna in)
RF OUT (Antenna out)
USB Port: For PVR & Media Player Functionality (also Software upgrades)
RF Loopthrough Output Connector
SPDIF (Digital Audio Output)
HDMI Socket
12V DC input

There is a scart. Misprint on our part. Thanks for the heads up. Rectified the spec.

The Cush

glineli wrote: »

Thanks for the price post.
I see there is no scart out so i will have to pass. I have a few older tvs that i need the boxes for with only scart

It does have a scart according to the brochure on http://www.tvtrade.ie/saorview-set-top-box-receiver.html

watty

There must be a SCART, but not listed. You can't get certification without HD and SD, both on HMDI and both on SCART (HD down scaled of course).

watty

Digital Satellite TV wrote: »

Don't shoot the messenger. Only letting people know the news.

Of course prices will come down in time. But sure no one would ever buy anything if it worked like that:-)

I appreciate what you are saying. But the price HAS come down. The more costly DVB-T2 certified boxes from £120 down to £45 in UK in a about the last year. €110 is more expensive than the €89, which is more expensive than slightly more costly DVB-T2 "Freeview HD" certified boxes at £45 (€75 max).

Triax isn't a premium brand. It's not a deluxe model, so while I welcome the certification, and the availability, the price can't be defended or pass without mention.

After all the cheaper Certified Walker boxes are regularly slated for being too expensive. Especially as the £45ish "Freeview HD" Bush, Digihome and others are actually the same basic chassis made by Vestel in Turkey (but requiring more expensive DVB-T2 /DVB-t dual mode tuner rather than DVB-T only for Ireland) and same DSP and extra software for "Freeview". Both Walker and "Freeview HD" boxes use the identical MHEG5 engine.

So is the Triax a Vestel from Turkey or a cheaper Chinese model?

liamtech

Digital Satellite TV wrote: »

Don't shoot the messenger. Only letting people know the news.

Of course prices will come down in time. But sure no one would ever buy anything if it worked like that:-)

Genuinely wasnt having a go man! lol Thanks for the heads up -

IM genuinely shocked that no Irish retailers have started stocking

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Krystel-DVBT2-Freeview-HD-Receiver-No-monthly-bills-/260756367614?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item3cb64a68fe

I mean its technically not certified, and yet it is as good as certified being the same box as the Walker - i know you may not get over the air updates etc etc . . . and if saorview roll out anything really interesting via this medium youll miss out etc

But if its available on ebay for 52 odd euro plus a tenner shipping - you would think a retailer would be able to sell them for around the 65 euro mark - and hey presto - you have a 99% Fully compatible saorview MHEG HD box for under 70 euro - and to hell with walker, triax etc

Kenny Powers

watty wrote: »

Too expensive. About €10 more than the overly expensive Walker box.

It should be about €85 inc VAT., maximum. It's not a deluxe product.


I'd recommend people wait unless they are desperate. Similar spec UK "Freeview HD" boxes are about £45 inc VAT in the UK "High Street" (under €80). They have 20% VAT now.

If you don't need MHEG5 will these do everything else? just looking for a simple one to use for a relation who will prob just press 1,2,3,4 or the +- buttons.

Digital Satellite TV

watty wrote: »

I appreciate what you are saying. But the price HAS come down. The more costly DVB-T2 certified boxes from £120 down to £45 in UK in a about the last year. €110 is more expensive than the €89, which is more expensive than slightly more costly DVB-T2 "Freeview HD" certified boxes at £45 (€75 max).

Triax isn't a premium brand. It's not a deluxe model, so while I welcome the certification, and the availability, the price can't be defended or pass without mention.

After all the cheaper Certified Walker boxes are regularly slated for being too expensive. Especially as the £45ish "Freeview HD" Bush, Digihome and others are actually the same basic chassis made by Vestel in Turkey (but requiring more expensive DVB-T2 /DVB-t dual mode tuner rather than DVB-T only for Ireland) and same DSP and extra software for "Freeview". Both Walker and "Freeview HD" boxes use the identical MHEG5 engine.

So is the Triax a Vestel from Turkey or a cheaper Chinese model?

Price set by Mfg & Dist. :-( Nothing we can do about that. Aswell as that there are a potential 60million customer in UK, no so here so they probably want to get their return. What can you do, simple economics.

Anyway time will tell.

Don't know off-hand on origin.

watty

Kenny Powers wrote: »

If you don't need MHEG5 will these do everything else? just looking for a simple one to use for a relation who will prob just press 1,2,3,4 or the +- buttons.

ALL "Freeview HD" boxes do MHEG5.

That's my point. "Freeview HD" requires certification. It's similar enough to Saorview (identical MHEG5) but needs a more expensive tuner.

The issues are:
No TV3 & TG4 Teletext till they switch to MHEG5 (existing Teletext may end in 2012 or 2013).
Channels may be numbered in 800s on some boxes. Not a big deal. Some have option to make them 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.

(The MHEG5 text works fine on all the RTE channels today)

watty

Digital Satellite TV wrote: »

Price set by Mfg & Dist. :-(

Usual thing of make the UK Retail price be the Irish Wholesale price*. I know. it's the case on SO many things. A Spanish outfit insists on Supplying Ireland via UK distributor, so Euro/Sterling hedge added to price and an extra layer of middle men.

Maybe if we all pretend not to be able to speak English, there would not be UK "middlemen" on so many areas.



(* Of course there is the related "Far East made Product that the £ price is the US$ price with only the currency symbol changed", then we get hit twice in Ireland).

Kenny Powers

watty wrote: »

ALL "Freeview HD" boxes do MHEG5.

That's my point. "Freeview HD" requires certification. It's similar enough to Saorview (identical MHEG5) but needs a more expensive tuner.

The issues are:
No TV3 & TG4 Teletext till they switch to MHEG5 (existing Teletext may end in 2012 or 2013).
Channels may be numbered in 800s on some boxes. Not a big deal. Some have option to make them 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.

Sweet thanks for that ill get a UK one so he never uses Teletext anyway.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8

watty wrote: »

ALL "Freeview HD" boxes do MHEG5.

That's my point. "Freeview HD" requires certification. It's similar enough to Saorview (identical MHEG5) but needs a more expensive tuner.

The issues are:
No TV3 & TG4 Teletext till they switch to MHEG5 (existing Teletext may end in 2012 or 2013).
Channels may be numbered in 800s on some boxes. Not a big deal. Some have option to make them 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.

(The MHEG5 text works fine on all the RTE channels today)

Sorry for labouring the point but I'm having a hard time getting my head around all this. Are you saying Watty that the freeview hd box does everything else for saorview except TV3 and TG4 text

Sam Russell

Milan Hissing Cerebellum wrote: »

Sorry for labouring the point but I'm having a hard time getting my head around all this. Are you saying Watty that the freeview hd box does everything else for saorview except TV3 and TG4 text

The Freeview HD follows the UK D Book specification which does not support 'old teletext' if MHEG5 text is available. On our mux, RTE have MHEG5 teletext on RTE 1+2, and normal teletext just on RTE 1, but just MHEG5 on RTE 2. TV3 and TG4 have normal teletext. As a consequence, FreesatHD sets will ignore 'normal' teletext. A Saorview box will handle it correctly. There is also a problem with channel numbers for FreeviewHD.

Other than that, it should work well, but you never know.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Freeview HD follows the UK D Book specification which does not support 'old teletext' if MHEG5 text is available. On our mux, RTE have MHEG5 teletext on RTE 1+2, and normal teletext just on RTE 1, but just MHEG5 on RTE 2. TV3 and TG4 have normal teletext. As a consequence, FreesatHD sets will ignore 'normal' teletext. A Saorview box will handle it correctly. There is also a problem with channel numbers for FreeviewHD.

Other than that, it should work well, but you never know.

Thanks for that, one more question are the freeview hd boxes available anywhere on line.

watty

Yes. They are.
UK Retailers and Amazon.

Be sure it's a "Freeview HD" or "Freeview+ HD" and not any kind of "Freeview".

TV3 and TG4 may add the MHEG5 text later as RTE has said the orignal type teletext may not be transmitted after 2012. Though they may only be referring to RTE's traditional Teletext.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8

watty wrote: »

Yes. They are.
UK Retailers and Amazon.

TV3 and TG4 may add the MHEG5 text later as RTE has said the orignal type teletext may not be transmitted after 2012. Though they may only be referring to RTE's traditional Teletext.

Cheers for that

The Cush

watty wrote: »

TV3 and TG4 may add the MHEG5 text later as RTE has said the orignal type teletext may not be transmitted after 2012. Though they may only be referring to RTE's traditional Teletext.

This is what RTÉ has said

No fixed date has been set by the broadcasters for switching off their traditional analogue EBU teletext services. It is likely that RTÉ and / or any other broadcaster that is transmitting a digital teletext service will discontinue transmitting their traditional analogue EBU teletext at Analogue Switch Off in October 2012 or soon afterwards.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8

liamtech wrote: »

Genuinely wasnt having a go man! lol Thanks for the heads up -

IM genuinely shocked that no Irish retailers have started stocking

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Krystel-DVBT2-Freeview-HD-Receiver-No-monthly-bills-/260756367614?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item3cb64a68fe

I mean its technically not certified, and yet it is as good as certified being the same box as the Walker - i know you may not get over the air updates etc etc . . . and if saorview roll out anything really interesting via this medium youll miss out etc

But if its available on ebay for 52 odd euro plus a tenner shipping - you would think a retailer would be able to sell them for around the 65 euro mark - and hey presto - you have a 99% Fully compatible saorview MHEG HD box for under 70 euro - and to hell with walker, triax etc

Would anybody know if the box in the above link has a scart connection. I've searched and can only see mention of hdmi

ted1

isn't it illegal for the price to be set by the manufacturer. All they can do is suggest a rrp

watty

I'd be extremely surprised if there is no SCART on any REAL "Freeview HD" box as it's part of the spec.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/freeview/1285100-all-guises-vestel-freeview-hd-box.html

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KRYSTEL-DVBT2-Freeview-Box-Receiver/dp/B003SQE8DI

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1298552

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69521734&postcount=2

These are all supposed to be similar Vestel Chassis

watty

ted1 wrote: »

isn't it illegal for the price to be set by the manufacturer. All they can do is suggest a rrp

If the Distributor's price is high enough that limits the Retail price.

Tony

I'd love to stock this if I knew of a trade supplier

liamtech wrote: »

IM genuinely shocked that no Irish retailers have started stocking

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Krystel-DVBT2-Freeview-HD-Receiver-No-monthly-bills-/260756367614?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item3cb64a68fe

Tony

ted1 wrote: »

isn't it illegal for the price to be set by the manufacturer. All they can do is suggest a rrp

Very true. Its also illegal to display retail prices without VAT .

watty

As far as I can see the eBay seller *IS* the only Trade supplier.

I wonder is it "really" "Freeview HD" certified, or a copy of bush software on same chassis? It's not listed on the Freeview official site?

The Cush

Tony wrote: »

Very true. Its also illegal to display retail prices without VAT .

National Consumer Agency

Tax inclusive prices

The price you give consumers must be the total price, and "tax inclusive". There mustn't be any hidden extras on top of that again, such as VAT or other taxes.

One exception to the "tax inclusive" rule is businesses such as wholesalers that sell goods intended solely for other business customers. These trade-only type businesses are allowed to display prices that exclude the VAT element.

Tony

I must start calling myself a trade only supplier

qhe0i9zvfgdou8

liamtech wrote: »

Genuinely wasnt having a go man! lol Thanks for the heads up -

IM genuinely shocked that no Irish retailers have started stocking

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Krystel-DVBT2-Freeview-HD-Receiver-No-monthly-bills-/260756367614?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item3cb64a68fe

I mean its technically not certified, and yet it is as good as certified being the same box as the Walker - i know you may not get over the air updates etc etc . . . and if saorview roll out anything really interesting via this medium youll miss out etc

But if its available on ebay for 52 odd euro plus a tenner shipping - you would think a retailer would be able to sell them for around the 65 euro mark - and hey presto - you have a 99% Fully compatible saorview MHEG HD box for under 70 euro - and to hell with walker, triax etc[/QUOTE


This is a page from the manual for the krystel freeview hd box can anybody tell from the specs if it is mheg 5 and can do the tex on saorview. I have the whole manual in a pdf link in my email but I dont know how to link it to here.


General Characteristics
Supply Voltage for set-top box: 12 V DC
Supply Voltage for DC Adaptor : 220 - 240 V AC ~ 50Hz
Input Frequency 470Mhz-862Mhz
Maximum Power consumption 15 W
Typical Power consumption 8 W
Standby Low Power Consumption <1 W
USB (optional) Current Limit 500mA
Operating temperature 5ºC to +40ºC
Storage temperature -20ºC to +70ºC
Humidity 25 to 75 % rel
Physical dimensions 295 x 170 x 40 mm
Weight 900 g
Hardware Confi guration
Main Processor MPEG Decoder NEC EMMA3SL/HD
Flash Memory 8MB NOR BGA
DDRRAM 2x128MB DDR2(HD Decoding for HD Mpeg4 Receiver)
Digital Capabilities
Transmission Standards: DVB-T, MPEG2 MPEG4
DVB-T2, MPEG4
Demodulation:
• Combined DVB-T2, DVB-T demodulator that conforms to the ETSI EN 302-755
(second generation Terrestrial) and ETSI EN 300-744 (Terrestrial) standards.
• Symbol rate: COFDM with 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k, 32k FFT mode
• Modulation: 16QAM, 64QAM, 256QAM FEC for all DVB modes (automatically found)
VIDEO
• H.264 (MPEG-4 part 10) main and high profi le level 4.1/MPEG-2 MP@HL video decoder.
• HD display multi format capable (1080p, 1080i, 720p, 576p)
• Analogue SD output: RGB and CVBS
AUDIO
• MPEG-1 layer I/II, MPEG-2 layer II, MPEG-2 AAC, MPEG-4 AAC
• Sampling frequencies supported are 32, 44.1 & 48 kHz

liamtech

Milan Hissing Cerebellum wrote: »

This is a page from the manual for the krystel freeview hd box can anybody tell from the specs if it is mheg 5 and can do the tex on saorview. I have the whole manual in a pdf link in my email but I dont know how to link it to here.


General Characteristics
Supply Voltage for set-top box: 12 V DC
Supply Voltage for DC Adaptor : 220 - 240 V AC ~ 50Hz
Input Frequency 470Mhz-862Mhz
Maximum Power consumption 15 W
Typical Power consumption 8 W
Standby Low Power Consumption <1 W
USB (optional) Current Limit 500mA
Operating temperature 5ºC to +40ºC
Storage temperature -20ºC to +70ºC
Humidity 25 to 75 % rel
Physical dimensions 295 x 170 x 40 mm
Weight 900 g
Hardware Confi guration
Main Processor MPEG Decoder NEC EMMA3SL/HD
Flash Memory 8MB NOR BGA
DDRRAM 2x128MB DDR2(HD Decoding for HD Mpeg4 Receiver)
Digital Capabilities
Transmission Standards: DVB-T, MPEG2 MPEG4
DVB-T2, MPEG4
Demodulation:
• Combined DVB-T2, DVB-T demodulator that conforms to the ETSI EN 302-755
(second generation Terrestrial) and ETSI EN 300-744 (Terrestrial) standards.
• Symbol rate: COFDM with 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k, 32k FFT mode
• Modulation: 16QAM, 64QAM, 256QAM FEC for all DVB modes (automatically found)
VIDEO
• H.264 (MPEG-4 part 10) main and high profi le level 4.1/MPEG-2 MP@HL video decoder.
• HD display multi format capable (1080p, 1080i, 720p, 576p)
• Analogue SD output: RGB and CVBS
AUDIO
• MPEG-1 layer I/II, MPEG-2 layer II, MPEG-2 AAC, MPEG-4 AAC
• Sampling frequencies supported are 32, 44.1 & 48 kHz

Freeview HD has a set number of requirements - if these are not met, then a box cannot be certified/branded freeview HD - One such requirement is MHEG5 compatibility - As this box is a FREEVIEW HD Box, it has to have MHEG5 - Also the fact that it is essentially the same unit as the Walker means it is compatable - I reckon this box could prove very popular in ireland due to its cheap price

watty

They claim it's "Freeview HD".
ALL Freeview HD do MHEG5.

So if it doesn't do MHEG5, their advert is a lie. It's certainly the same chassis as the Bush "Freeview HD"

Read the links

watty wrote: »

I'd be extremely surprised if there is no SCART on any REAL "Freeview HD" box as it's part of the spec.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/freeview/1285100-all-guises-vestel-freeview-hd-box.html

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KRYSTEL-DVBT2-Freeview-Box-Receiver/dp/B003SQE8DI

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1298552

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69521734&postcount=2

These are all supposed to be similar Vestel Chassis

elsie1b

watty wrote: »

They claim it's "Freeview HD".
ALL Freeview HD do MHEG5.

So if it doesn't do MHEG5, their advert is a lie. It's certainly the same chassis as the Bush "Freeview HD"

Read the links

I received one yesterday and it does do saorview text.
Also receives U.K HD services which is a nice bonus.
Now if only Mount Leinster would vacate channel 45....

FREETV

The text is very slow to load though, is it not? Fifteen seconds. I presume that the latest over the air software update for the Vestel boxes from Divis, Wales etc probably sorted that issue out? Anybody? I also presume that there is no information listed in the Saorview EPG? My Dad and I bought the Vestel manufactured and rebadged Metronic Freeview HD boxes and the guide has information from Divis for the UK but not for the Irish channels unfortunately. Maybe a software update sorted this? The box has a great picture though and a fairly strong, sensitive tuner. No usb port also which it lacks.

FREETV

I think that it will still be on Channel 45 unfortunately as I read it here until after full DSO in Ireland at the end of 2012.

watty

FREETV wrote: »

The text is very slow to load though, is it not? Fifteen seconds.

The LG 42LD450 is very fast on MHEG5 text. It's nearly like Internet on decent Broadband. It may be caching a lot.

FREETV

It should only take a maximum of five seconds for the text to load on the Vestel boxes. My Dad and I both own the old doomed Sagem Sky Picnic boxes and the text only takes five seconds to load when the text button is pressed. Is it a software caching problem Watty?

watty

no idea.

FREETV

Thanks anyway Watty, I guess we shall wait and see what happens, the Metronics may be capable of being updated over the air like the Walker ones .

watty

You can update firmware via USB, serial whatever.

Freeview boxes only get OTA from Freeview transmitters

Teddy455

has anyone bought one of these yet? they are available on www.tvtrade.ie

I would like to see as it compares to walker one.
I would also like to see pictures of the menu and epg on it?

Digital Satellite TV

Teddy455 wrote: »

has anyone bought one of these yet? they are available on www.tvtrade.ie

I would like to see as it compares to walker one.
I would also like to see pictures of the menu and epg on it?

We wil have the videos on our youtube channel later on and you can check them out there if you like.

http://www.youtube.com/user/tvtradedave

Peddyr

watty wrote: »

Maybe if we all pretend not to be able to speak English, there would not be UK "middlemen" on so many areas.

Sin é, abair as Gaeilge!

prf

can the triax be used to watch a different channel to the one that is being recorded.can it also do series recording?.great vids on utube.

watty

can the triax be used to watch a different channel to the one that is being recorded.

No. It's not a real PVR. Or at least not reliably once the 2nd Mux starts.

can it also do series recording?

Maybe. Saorview will use Nordig PVR series link methods. RTE NL don't transmit this information yet. I don't understand the Nordig spec well enough to see if you can get certification as Set-box and then "tack on" basic recording, rather the the box really compatible with Saorview/Nordig PVR specs.

It's not really sold as a PVR. So hard to say. We won't really know for sure until RTE start transmission of Series Link data.

This why I'm saying don't be "early adoptor" if possible, especially of PVR, as Saorsat + Freesat HD in one dual tuner Sat box may be viable.

The full service is not yet running. Full launch is end May. Saorsat sounding later.

Digital Satellite TV

prf wrote: »

can the triax be used to watch a different channel to the one that is being recorded.can it also do series recording?.great vids on utube.

watch a different channel to the one that is being recorded - yes (at moment, see below for further info on this)

Series recording - didn't notice that feature on it, may be there, didn't see it, if not will probably be added with future OTA updates or firmware updates or on new revs of the box.

STB

Remember that these boxes are minimum spec capabilties. PVR implementation via USB PVR is a manufacturers add on and support.

It might be of benefit not to point out that recording facility at all. As its facility to record whilst watching something else will not continue to exist or will be compromised. It'll save the hassle of peeved customers.

When Mux 2 comes on, that facility will not work. Similar to watching the same transponder on satelllite whilst recording that prevails with single tuner satellite PVRs. Try explain the limitations in a single sentence to non techs!

Infact in the UK there is a clear distinction between single and double tuner models. They use a plus! And Likewise Triax have + models (TR 217) and normal viewing models (TR 115 Zapper) (which the Saorview model is based upon).

Series record scheduling would be applied in software via epg scheduling area. At present content reference ID data is not being broadcast so you will have no way of knowing whether it has been included in the software. I doubt it. Its normally 2 tuner models (like in Freeview HD+) with built in HDs that have that facility built in. The PVR via USB models are just as an add on that "kinda works" recording the transport streams one is watching on a single tuner.