Sound and Vision

Elmo

liamtech wrote: »

Unless they are subsidized by a wealthy TV station, perhaps, oh i dunno, a station with more money than sense; which is payed far to much by the public and worse still, squanders these resources - but where to find such a station?:(

Having community services would be great and would really boost the service around the country -

I cant help seeing a slight parallel between RTE VS TV3(and other assorted local stations) and the whole Aerlingus VS Ryanair argument - all of these State owned and semi-state (and former state owned for that matter) seem to have a far easier time getting what they want - while organizations seen as competitors to these Tricolor Flying flagships always have to fight and scream for service... and even then are accused of being second rate and unworthy of mention... VERY IRISH isnt it

Once again im prepared for the onslaught of card carrying RTE supporters to start the final offensive on little old me - "RTE are great", "without RTE Ireland wouldn't have DTT"... etc etc -

Liam TV3 squandered its money back in 2006 when Doherty Hanson bought the channel for way over the odds. ITV were interested until "silly money" started to be mentioned. Now TV3's loan is in Nama while DH thought it might be a good idea to buy EBS to take the loans out of NAMA (I can only surmise).

There are allot of things wrong with RTÉ and TV3 both are no better than each other. My issue with the TV3 private sector lovers is that TV3 have done really very little. I would love if TV3 was more independently minded and didn't worry so much about RTÉ, TV3 have plenty of money and the know well how to squander it. I don't need to complain about RTÉ as so many do, that is why I don't. In fairness to RTÉ as their audience share and licence fee has eroded and as other TV stations copy their Radio Programmes (a dig a VB :rolleyes:) RTÉ have been left with DTT and DAB weather they like it or not.

And yes a Community service could be placed on the Public service mux for Free, even if just for 3 hours. The Neatherlands had a system of different groups on the TV services in the early years, I don't see why we should not think about a mixed group TV channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederland_1

liamtech

Elmo wrote: »

Liam TV3 squandered its money back in 2006 when Doherty Hanson bought the channel for way over the odds. ITV were interested until "silly money" started to be mentioned. Now TV3's loan is in Nama while DH thought it might be a good idea to buy EBS to take the loans out of NAMA (I can only surmise).

There are allot of things wrong with RTÉ and TV3 both are no better than each other. My issue with the TV3 private sector lovers is that TV3 have done really very little. I would love if TV3 was more independently minded and didn't worry so much about RTÉ, TV3 have plenty of money and the know well how to squander it. I don't need to complain about RTÉ as so many do, that is why I don't. In fairness to RTÉ as their audience share and licence fee has eroded and as other TV stations copy their Radio Programmes (a dig a VB :rolleyes:) RTÉ have been left with DTT and DAB weather they like it or not.

And yes a Community service could be placed on the Public service mux for Free, even if just for 3 hours. The Neatherlands had a system of different groups on the TV services in the early years, I don't see why we should not think about a mixed group TV channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederland_1

It would be brilliant if these local stations came together in a technical group or sorts and time shared some spots on saorview- But in all honesty why do they have to share - i mean its not as if stations are queuing up to join- i assume this is a cost thing which really brings me back to what we were saying about the money RTE gets - can these stations actually apply and get some funding from the license (WITHOUT THE LICENSE GOING UP - in case anyone from RTE is reading this and gets any ideas! lol)

Even still i would welcome time sharing

Elmo

The Sound and Vision Fund is provided to all TV services (including Setanta) as long as the shows produced are provided in prime-time and unencrypted in relation to Setanta. Setanta provide "freeview" hours on Satellite.

RTÉ's (public) money that it has got (as pointed out) has gone toward developing the infrastructure that those new services will be available on.

IMO Community service could go on the service for free but Private money making channels will need to pay for their positions that is only fair IMO.

However the S&V fund is not there for broadcasting rather it is there for content producers. TV shows are co-productions with the BAI under the scheme as such. (S&V is 7% of the licence fee).

As for sharing while the cush seems to think that RTÉ 1 +1 won't close, and as I thought it would be a full channel, RTÉJr could timeshare with the community channels. It would receive free transmission and the BAI if able would provide the community sector with some S&V funds.

Anyway their are numerous possibilities even TV3 might suggest a TV3+1 or/and a 3e+1 or perhaps a TV3HD. IMO TV3 are being myopic in this instance. They can apply for more TV channels and they can become stronger, and they have got that ability from public funds.

Sam Russell

If TV3 quit analogue or digital, there is always UTV to take their place. They have just as much claim to be Irish, being based in Belfast. They even get most of the programmes from the same source.

liamtech

Elmo wrote: »

The Sound and Vision Fund is provided to all TV services (including Setanta) as long as the shows produced are provided in prime-time and unencrypted in relation to Setanta. Setanta provide "freeview" hours on Satellite.

RTÉ's (public) money that it has got (as pointed out) has gone toward developing the infrastructure that those new services will be available on.

IMO Community service could go on the service for free but Private money making channels will need to pay for their positions that is only fair IMO.

However the S&V fund is not there for broadcasting rather it is there for content producers. TV shows are co-productions with the BAI under the scheme as such. (S&V is 7% of the licence fee).

As for sharing while the cush seems to think that RTÉ 1 +1 won't close, and as I thought it would be a full channel, RTÉJr could timeshare with the community channels. It would receive free transmission and the BAI if able would provide the community sector with some S&V funds.

Anyway their are numerous possibilities even TV3 might suggest a TV3+1 or/and a 3e+1 or perhaps a TV3HD. IMO TV3 are being myopic in this instance. They can apply for more TV channels and they can become stronger, and they have got that ability from public funds.

How come Setanta get away with this - They shouldn't receive any funding unless their broadcasting in the clear free to air- freeview means it is only viewable with a sky subscription - granted it is viewable to any sky viewer in ireland -

Folks that really isnt fair and is entirely unjust -

watty

Setanta should not be eligible.

Only channels that are Wholly Free To Air AND available Terrestrially should be able to avail.

liamtech

Elmo wrote: »

We checked it out here on boards you don't need a sky subscription or a sky Digi box. Setanta does provide FTA hours but I still agree with you I don't think a Pay TV provider should be able to avail of these funds unless they have an FTA channel.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70220925

**** should really read responses to my threads more careful seems you right you do need a Sky card to access Setanta Freeview. Even worse then I expected.

So license payer money is going to Setanta, to help finance a channel that is only available to Sky and UPC Customers - This is truly an outrage -

Elmo - i think this information needs to be highlighted, possibly in a separate thread. I previously heard that setanta were providing several hours a day free to sky customers but i though it was a taster to encourage subscription. As there was no great outpouring of complaints about it i have a feeling many people didnt know about the funding. I had no idea they were receiving funding for it at all - - this is a slap in the face to all those who support FTA and who pay only the TV license-

Can we find out:

• How much they get
• when it started
• what the actual reason/agreement is on this funding

Then perhaps we should all consider a petition to our new Minister for Communications - in Any case, we need to get all of the facts right first

Teddy455

liamtech wrote: »

So license payer money is going to Setanta, to help finance a channel that is only available to Sky and UPC Customers - This is truly an outrage -

Elmo - i think this information needs to be highlighted, possibly in a separate thread. I previously heard that setanta were providing several hours a day free to sky customers but i though it was a taster to encourage subscription. As there was no great outpouring of complaints about it i have a feeling many people didnt know about the funding. I had no idea they were receiving funding for it at all - - this is a slap in the face to all those who support FTA and who pay only the TV license-

Can we find out:

• How much they get
• when it started
• what the actual reason/agreement is on this funding

Then perhaps we should all consider a petition to our new Minister for Communications - in Any case, we need to get all of the facts right first

+1

liamtech

I presume the freedom of Information act should allow us to inquire as to how much money they are getting, and the frequency of their payments -

I have to restate that i find this Disgraceful - It makes a mockery of the TV license in this country - its bad enough to think that Ryan Tubridy gets an enormous salary - But to think that some of my 160euro Yearly payment is funding Setanta - My blood is boiling

I'm dead serious about confirming the facts and putting together a petition asking for an explanation as to why Our license payments are being squandered on a channel, which is only available to subscription customers



Typical Ireland :mad:

Teddy455

liamtech wrote: »

I presume the freedom of Information act should allow us to inquire as to how much money they are getting, and the frequency of their payments -

I have to restate that i find this Disgraceful - It makes a mockery of the TV license in this country - its bad enough to think that Ryan Tubridy gets an enormous salary - But to think that some of my 160euro Yearly payment is funding Setanta - My blood is boiling

I'm dead serious about confirming the facts and putting together a petition asking for an explanation as to why Our license payments are being squandered on a channel, which is only available to subscription customers



Typical Ireland :mad:

I think you should email minister Pat Rabitte about this.

Teddy455

liamtech wrote: »

I presume the freedom of Information act should allow us to inquire as to how much money they are getting, and the frequency of their payments -

I have to restate that i find this Disgraceful - It makes a mockery of the TV license in this country - its bad enough to think that Ryan Tubridy gets an enormous salary - But to think that some of my 160euro Yearly payment is funding Setanta - My blood is boiling

I'm dead serious about confirming the facts and putting together a petition asking for an explanation as to why Our license payments are being squandered on a channel, which is only available to subscription customers



Typical Ireland :mad:

Link here:http://www.rte.ie/about/licence.html#question3 lin ked to by an post question of what is the licence spent on

Elmo

The BAI provide details of which production company gets access to the S&V fund and the Broadcaster that is involved in the production.

http://www.bai.ie/pdfs/20110221_svtv10_pr.pdf

~€7million provided to TV in round 10
Setanta got 740,000
RTE got 1.9m
TV3 got 945,000
TG4 got 2.7m
CCTV got 87,000
DCTV got 245,000
UTV got £45,000

Or

Public got 4.7m
Private got 1.7m
Community got 300,000

The distribution of the licence fee is fairly well transparent from both the BAI and RTÉ. TV3 have done better than this during other rounds.

What is the Showcase channel???

liamtech

Elmo wrote: »

The BAI provide details of which production company gets access to the S&V fund and the Broadcaster that is involved in the production.

http://www.bai.ie/pdfs/20110221_svtv10_pr.pdf

~€7million provided to TV in round 10
Setanta got 740,000
RTE got 1.9m
TV3 got 945,000
TG4 got 2.7m
CCTV got 87,000
DCTV got 245,000
UTV got £45,000

Or

Public got 4.7m
Private got 1.7m
Community got 300,000

The distribution of the licence fee is fairly well transparent from both the BAI and RTÉ. TV3 have done better than this during other rounds.

What is the Showcase channel???

Then by all rights we should be able to access Setanta FTA in the republic of ireland - technically one could argue that UTV should be available via DTT, but since it is available via Satellite, we could leave that one alone -

I would love to see the community stations available in one shape or another -even online would be a start

Putting them aside i dont see how setanta should get any money at all from the license fee as it is not available without subscription - It is by definition a PAY TV station -

Bloods boiling again - i actually expected this to be a mistake or something - it just seemed to ridiculous to be true...

watty

What justification is there to give 1c even to
Setanta got 740,000
CCTV got 87,000
DCTV got 245,000

These channels are only on Pay TV platforms. They are not available to Free to Air viewers.

UTV got £45,000
While technically UTV is FTA and available to some people via Aerial, and anyone with FTA Satellite, why are they getting money from the fund? Why is Irish TV viewing Tax being paid to Broadcaster outside the state? You might as well give money to BBC N.I. or even DW TV.

liamtech

watty wrote: »

What justification is there to give 1c even to
Setanta got 740,000
CCTV got 87,000
DCTV got 245,000

These channels are only on Pay TV platforms. They are not available to Free to Air viewers.

UTV got £45,000
While technically UTV is FTA and available to some people via Aerial, and anyone with FTA Satellite, why are they getting money from the fund? Why is Irish TV viewing Tax being paid to Broadcaster outside the state? You might as well give money to BBC N.I. or even DW TV.

I agree with you 100% Watty but i think we need to look at this clearly and objectively -

-UTV - While it is a "foreign station" unavailable via DTT or ATT, it is broadcasting in the clear via satellite - it is technically available to the entire island of ireland in one shape or another-

-CCTV & DCTV - Local stations which due to the cost of transmitting via DTT and satellite are unable to do so -

Now while i agree that the above probably shouldnt get a penny, i bear in mind the following - UTV i have for free, and CCTV and DCTV are very small fish - never the less if we are proceeding with a petition of some sort they should be mentioned and queried -

Setanta - MASSIVE MULTI-MILLION EURO ENTERPRISE - present on every continent on earth: Similar to sky sports, this station will always enjoy snapping up sports events and charging viewers a fee to watch them - it is 100% a pay TV station for profit and providing nothing in the public interest -

This station/company should not get a single solitary cent of license payer money at all - To think that it gets 740,000Euro is a total and absolute disgrace - This has to stop - Im totally committed to this and would ask that an Official new thread be started discussing this disgrace and the options we have as license payers to put a stop to it - In an age where people are harassed, fined, taken to court and possibly imprisoned for not paying a TV license - TO THINK THIS COMPANY GETS SOME OF THAT - FARCICAL!

watty

Cable is pay TV only.
There is NO Irish Satellite Platform at all.

Thus UTV, CCTV and DCTV should get no money, no matter how free the UK satellite Platform is and no matter how small CCTV DCTV are.

Only FTA channels on IRISH transmission Platforms should be eligible for Irish TV Licence money.

The General Taxation (NOT TV Licence) should pay for International Streaming AND Satellite channel for People OUTSIDE Ireland. In UK, Australia, USA, Canada, Mainland Europe, Middle East, South America, Asia and Africa with same kind of charter as DW TV.

UTV is only on other channels on Sky, and only obvious on a Freesat box with an N.I. Post Code entered. While they do own a lot of Local Radio and are an ISP in Ireland, there is no compelling reason why they should get the S&V money from TV Licence.

FREETV

liamtech wrote: »

So license payer money is going to Setanta, to help finance a channel that is only available to Sky and UPC Customers - This is truly an outrage -

Elmo - i think this information needs to be highlighted, possibly in a separate thread. I previously heard that setanta were providing several hours a day free to sky customers but i though it was a taster to encourage subscription. As there was no great outpouring of complaints about it i have a feeling many people didnt know about the funding. I had no idea they were receiving funding for it at all - - this is a slap in the face to all those who support FTA and who pay only the TV license-

Can we find out:

• How much they get
• when it started
• what the actual reason/agreement is on this funding

Then perhaps we should all consider a petition to our new Minister for Communications - in Any case, we need to get all of the facts right first

Agreed, we are all after all paying for a service which should be FTA on Saorview, at least the free to air hours from Setanta anyway. Any channel provider to whom license payers money fund should be free to air and on the Saorview service and the bureaucrats need to be informed of this by us all. UTV should be on multiplex two.

liamtech

In general i think we all agree that License payer money is being squandered in this situation- The local channels, UTV and in particular Setanta, should not be receiving License Funds -

I Genuinely believe that this should now be a separate thread to discuss what we can do about this - A petition is one possibility, and this option should be discussed once all boarders are fully aware of the facts -

My reasoning in wanting a seperate thread is:

• This discussion no longer has anything to do with Saorview publicity launch
• This issue needs to be highlighted so more opinions can be heard

Is it possible for a moderator to split off the Post's containing the discussion surrounding Setanta's license funds, and place them in a seperate thread - Or should i or one of the other boarders open a new thread discussing this sole issue? If the later is the only option i will open said thread with several quotes from this discussion..

liamtech

Excellent -I look forward to the posts being moved - and for a wider discussion on what the situation is and how we can at the very least lodge a complaint with the BAI &/or The minister of communications:

In the mean time: We now know the figures involved to be 740 000 euro, per year i presume. What about how setanta managed to get funding - is there a way to find out what justification there is for Setanta to get a penny of license money

watty

The Sound & Vision fund's very concept is flawed based on copying a Failed British Model.

UK Broadcast production, not just BBC, but also many programs for ITV and Channel 4, some of which externally priduced used to be the envy of the World. Now C4 production is closed and much ITV and BBC production is gone. The UK philosphy was to FORCE the use of external Production.

The idea behind the dreadful waste that is the S&V fund, using 10% of the TV licence is that Broadcasters should only commission programs, not make them.

So the logic is that any Irish Program Production can be funded, even if in fact most Irish Licence Fee payers can't ever see it due to being on a single pay TV Platform (Cable), or a Pay TV only minority Channel (Setanta, not part of any entry level package on Sky) or UTV (only on Cable by default, as FTA is a minority and UTV is not on Sky EPG in Ireland).

So UPC, part a large successful International Media Company "Liberty Global" is the TV platform (which is ONLY pay TV) that has benefited from 100% of the S&V fund so far, as they are the only platform with all those channels to all Digital subscriber.

If the S&V fund as a concept to fund Irish Productions (rather than Broadcasters) is to continue, then it needs direct Grant and be part of the Irish Film Board and not building the BAI empire. At least 80% of the new S&V should be levied from Sky, UPC (25% each), TV3, TG4 and RTE (10% each).

Meanwhile the idea of copying the "Bankrupt" UK model of destruction of in house Production in favour should be abandoned.

Any Irish Broadcaster (Defined as someone on Saorview TV or Radio or Terrestrial FM (not DAB only as it is too limited) should get funding to improve Production Standards (not for Equipment, Premises, Over paid presenters) in relation to programs of outstanding cultural value.

Immediately there should be funding for an International Channel Broadcasting and Streaming run by TG4 in English with minority time in Irish, Spanish and French. TV3 should have to provide 10% content free and RTE provide 70% content free.

Elmo

CCTV and DCTV are both community services and are generally comprised of volunteers. As point out it is unlikely that either could afford an FTA platform. I see no reason why they should not be able to avail of the S&V fund and the idea of letting them on Saorview timesharing with RTÉjr would negate the issues with the tiny amount that that got in comparison to other channels.

Film Four received funding for Hunger from the fund and it is one of the main reason why the IFB/BSÉ want to have a channel on Saorview. A new national station could also be set up to provide ROI viewers with access to programmes funded by S&V for NI channels and also NI news such as Newsline and UTV live.

Here is a thread I tried to getting going a year or so ago http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61411420

watty

If CCTV and DCTV are only on Cable, then they only benefit UPC and the fact they are small, kind to Cats, or comprised of volunteers is irrelevant. Unless they are on an irish FTA Platform, they are not IMO Irish Broadcasters entitled to get Licence Fee Money.

They may be perfectly eligiable for S&V fund. But as it stands the S&V fund shouldn't get a cent of the TV licence.


A channel only on pay TV is not a community service. IMO it's an ego trip getting exploited by UPC. No one "needs" pay Tv.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

A channel only on pay TV is not a community service. IMO it's an ego trip getting exploited by UPC. No one "needs" pay Tv.

On channel 802 UPC really aren't driving their ego. www.dctv.ie

Cantona's Collars

Elmo wrote: »

On channel 802 UPC really aren't driving their ego. www.dctv.ie

In order to watch anything on UPC you have to pay for it-pretty much invalidates your argument.Can't see how a channel on pay tv can get extra funding.No cable no channels,no such thing as fta on UPC so not really public service broadcasting as you gotta pay to view.

FTA via satellite or dtt is different as it is potentially available to 100% of the population and not restricted to a pay tv system.

Nice to see part of my license fee go to channels I'll never get to watch or have to pay a fee for the privelege.

liamtech

zerks wrote: »

In order to watch anything on UPC you have to pay for it-pretty much invalidates your argument.Can't see how a channel on pay tv can get extra funding.No cable no channels,no such thing as fta on UPC so not really public service broadcasting as you gotta pay to view.

FTA via satellite or dtt is different as it is potentially available to 100% of the population and not restricted to a pay tv system.

Nice to see part of my license fee go to channels I'll never get to watch or have to pay a fee for the privelege.

You are preaching to the converted here... its a disgrace, and we must at least lodge our criticism to the BAI

Elmo

It was not a zombie thread it was dead when I wrote it. I don't see why it could not have been merged.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71285847&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=notify#post71285847

101001

I dont think people understand what sound and vision funding is... Its not just for tv stations. You yourself can get funding to make TV content. Its funding to create irish related content rather than buying in.

regards the DCTV and CCTV. Community Television should be at its core be about irish people making there own programmes. When Community Tv recieves sound and vision funding to make shows that budget is then used to run the station as a whole.

Folks of the street should be able to do go to them train and create their own content. It goes to facilitate and train folks who want to make TV. Community TV is a positive system that rarely recieves money from elsewhere.

If DCTV hadnt recieved that s&v funding they would have shut down. Then no outlet for dublin folks to have their say.

watty

I mentioned that earlier. As such it should get NO money from TV licence, because there is no assurance any of it would be seen in Ireland.

The idea of the S&V isn't unreasonable. But the funding method is not reasonable unless only content available on Terrestrial FTA is funded.

If DCTV hadnt recieved that s&v funding they would have shut down. Then no outlet for dublin folks to have their say.

And ALL of the country TV licence payers should fund a few Dubliners to have an "outlet" on Cable Pay TV only?

No. That's not reasonable even if the S&V isn't TV licence funded. There is zero justification to Grant aid a Channel for one City that's on Cable only.

There are FTA Radio and also Newspapers for Dublin Folk to have an outlet. In fact a LOT of FTA Radio.

Also RTE is practically Dublin TV for the "rest of us".

101001

watty wrote: »

I mentioned that earlier. As such it should get NO money from TV licence, because there is no assurance any of it would be seen in Ireland.

The idea of the S&V isn't unreasonable. But the funding method is not reasonable unless only content available on Terrestrial FTA is funded.


And ALL of the country TV licence payers should fund a few Dubliners to have an "outlet" on Cable Pay TV only?

No. That's not reasonable even if the S&V isn't TV licence funded. There is zero justification to Grant aid a Channel for one City that's on Cable only.

Its also available on the internet... They have looked to broadcast on the Irish digital but have been knocked back.

My actual point was that sound and vision funding is available for everyone to apply for. I was also merely pointing out the fact that Community TV stations put the money back into helping communities make their own video (and are seen as a non-profit, facilitation and training resource)... So everyone can have their say. I was trying to give a positive result of the funding.

If you are so irate about it why not make a TV show about it? The delicious irony that facility is there for you within certain parts of Ireland. If not... set it up

If that 10% of your licence (a licence which i think is abhorent) is not available for ALL people would you prefer it to go to RTE's coffers?

watty

There is no real Community TV in Ireland. Channels on Cable don't count.

Nor is an Internet Web stream Community TV, not with level of Broadband access and quality in Ireland.

My actual point was that sound and vision funding is available for everyone to apply for.

This is what the complaints are about. Because it's funded ENTIRELY by TV licence.

If the S&V was funded some other way it wouldn't be as big an issue.

You don't need to make a TV program to highlight stuff. Doing it on a minority viewed PayTV channel is particularly poor way to reach an audience.

You don't like the TV licence. Well that doesn't justify misappropriation of it. Which is what the S&V fund is.

Elmo

I agree with the special case given for Community TV even if it currently on airs on UPC digital. It does not receive commercial money and is a community based project.

I however disagree with programme producers getting Licence fee money for real pay TV stations such as Setanta. Particularly Setanta gaining access directly for in house in studio programming.

The Community channels are must carries on UPC.

City Channel cannot get their hands on any S&V fund, channel 6 got one show and after that the funding was taken from them as they were not an FTA channel. Setanta make the case that they go unencrypted yet such programming is only available to sky subscribers.

However all S&V programming should be made available on each of the current set of FTA terrestrial channels.

rlogue

So what times are Setanta available FTA?

Elmo

I had a link to a thread but must not have been brought over

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70220925

New search is brilliant.

101001

watty wrote: »

There is no real Community TV in Ireland. Channels on Cable don't count.

There is within Ireland communities of people producing content for numerous stations broadcasting. There's also plenty of Community Radio... also S&V funded. But thats not the discussion

Nor is an Internet Web stream Community TV, not with level of Broadband access and quality in Ireland.

this is what the complaints are about. Because it's funded ENTIRELY by TV licence.

If the S&V was funded some other way it wouldn't be as big an issue.

So if it came out of your motor tax? PRSI? Or other taxes? The TV licence covers radio too. Which can also be S&V funded. You can apply for this too if you want to make radio content to be broadcast.

You don't need to make a TV program to highlight stuff. Doing it on a minority viewed PayTV channel is particularly poor way to reach an audience.

Its not perfect but its a start... and very new. It could do with some support too

You don't like the TV licence. Well that doesn't justify misappropriation of it. Which is what the S&V fund is.

Im not justifying the S&V. Its a fund, 10% of the licensing fee that is available for everyone to create content for TV. Creating quality video can be an expensive.

Are you telling me that a fund, paid for by the Irish people (a paltry 10% of a licence) that facilitates irish people to make video (and radio) is a missapropriation? It allows people the opportunity to produce content for a channel (any channel) broadcasting in Ireland... What is evil about that?

The reason setanta got funding was that it applied for it. During the next round of funding they might not get any programmes funded. If you apply you might get some of the money Setanta would get

It facilitates the creation of content for broadcast. Im not sure what you think it does

Elmo

101001 wrote: »

There is within Ireland communities of people producing content for numerous stations broadcasting. There's also plenty of Community Radio... also S&V funded. But thats not the discussion

No simple because it is free to everyone with an FM radio.

The reason setanta got funding was that it applied for it. During the next round of funding they might not get any programmes funded. If you apply you might get some of the money Setanta would get

The issue with setanta is that it is a Pay Service much more so than Community services which are not in fairness. I don't see why a very much for profit organisation should receive any licence fee.

In relation to taking the money from the exchequer. The model that both Channel 4 and TG4 grew out of is more beneficial to Independent Producers than giving it to the BAI to redistribute from the licence fee. It only saves the government money.

The money should only be for Independent producers who have the backing of either a Community based or FTA terrestrial channel.

101001

Elmo wrote: »

I agree with the special case given for Community TV even if it currently on airs on UPC digital. It does not receive commercial money and is a community based project.

I however disagree with programme producers getting Licence fee money for real pay TV stations such as Setanta. Particularly Setanta gaining access directly for in house in studio programming.

Bigtime! Setanta are taking the piss and abusing the system

EDIT: (was writing this as you were replying to above). I reckon we're pretty much in agreement on this

Elmo wrote: »

The Community channels are must carries on UPC.

City Channel cannot get their hands on any S&V fund, channel 6 got one show and after that the funding was taken from them as they were not an FTA channel. Setanta make the case that they go unencrypted yet such programming is only available to sky subscribers.

However all S&V programming should be made available on each of the current set of FTA terrestrial channels.

This is a quite a good idea but I cant see it happening. Its a hell of a task getting a licence to broadcast on FTA channels. RTE dont like it at all. Community stations have been trying and lobbying but keep getting knocked back. The infrastructure is somewhat seen as RTE's

Elmo

101001 wrote: »

This is a quite a good idea but I cant see it happening. Its a hell of a task getting a licence to broadcast on FTA channels. RTE dont like it at all. Community stations have been trying and lobbying but keep getting knocked back. The infrastructure is somewhat seen as RTE's

The new Digital service might have something for them.

However I am suggesting for the moment that the non-terrestial shows are divided up between RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 to be show as part of their commitments.

101001

Elmo wrote: »

The new Digital service might have something for them.

However I am suggesting for the moment that the non-terrestial shows are divided up between RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 to be show as part of their commitments.

With that kind of quality logical thinking youre obviously not a politician...shame.

EDIT: Wait by digital service do you mean something else apart from saorview?

Elmo

101001 wrote: »

With that kind of quality logical thinking youre obviously not a politician...shame.

EDIT: Wait by digital service do you mean something else apart from saorview?

I mean Saorview, a few hours on one of the other non-24hour channels as a timeshare or something like that.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

I mean Saorview, a few hours on one of the other non-24hour channels as a timeshare or something like that.

Well, after September, there may be room for 6 or 7 DTT channels, unless Mr Rabitte countermands the Carey directive. Currently there is only enough programme for one mux. From September, we will have two, unless RTE rename Mux 1 as Mux 2, and shutdown Mux1.

watty

101001 wrote: »

It facilitates the creation of content for broadcast. Im not sure what you think it does

That's not reasonable if it's broadcast only available on a Foreign platform or only on PayTV.

The only "outside the state" Broadcast that should be subsidized is An Irish International Channel.

PayTV channels should NEVER EVER be subsidised by the Irish Tax payer. Especially not the TV licence.

it's tantamount to robbery.

Was_SeeDot

watty wrote: »

That's not reasonable if it's broadcast only available on a Foreign platform or only on PayTV.

The only "outside the state" Broadcast that should be subsidized is An Irish International Channel.

PayTV channels should NEVER EVER be subsidised by the Irish Tax payer. Especially not the TV licence.

it's tantamount to robbery.

Hi watty

I'm involved with community TV here and to be honest I can see the logic of your argument.

DCTV is fully aware of the anomaly of the station only being available to a percentage of the population and have sought wider distribution and, in particular, a way to distribute our content without a paywall. This is actually very difficult in Ireland without significant capital resources (and impossible if you are seeking local transmission only since there is no regulatory framework for this). Perhaps DTT will offer opportunities here and we will be making submissions around this and seeking partnerships.

Given all of this we do endeavour to ensure our S&V projects are available to everybody even if they cannot receive the channel. Everything is released under creative commons, we seek sponsors for DVD releases which are generally free on distribution (e.g. our cycling series was distributed by DCC, our childrens series will hopefully be going into schools and libraries later this year) and, in fact all of our S&V projects get shared with Belfasts Northern Visions (at no cost) and broadcast FTA on their terrestrial system.

If you wanted to engage with S&V the broadcasting fund is up for review next year (check out the BAI workplan) and a case could be made that all content should be available FTA. DCTV would support this as long as the statutory responsibilities of the BAI to facilitate community television on digital platforms were taken seriously and some way for our projects to be broadcast was found.

Was_SeeDot

BTW - meant to say congrats all on this and the other cable and digital fora on boards - great reading,. Keep it up - I presented the analysis on DTT from here on a number of occasions and stopped reading press releases until I'd seen them dissected here ;-)

watty

Was_SeeDot wrote: »

DCTV is fully aware of the anomaly of the station only being available to a percentage of the population and have sought wider distribution and, in particular, a way to distribute our content without a paywall. This is actually very difficult in Ireland without significant capital resources (and impossible if you are seeking local transmission only since there is no regulatory framework for this). Perhaps DTT will offer opportunities here and we will be making submissions around this and seeking partnerships.

1) Investigate InfoTv (on Freesat / Sky FTA) who offer microchannel capacity.
also RRsat for capacity. Actual carriage on Satellite is far cheaper than DTT, if you don't need encryption. Sky EPG though can cost more than the carriage, hence RRSat, Freesat and InfoTv.

2) Lobby BAI for infoTV like channel of timeshared Microchannels on DTT. If 5 channels sharing time the cost of DTT carriage could be under €60K. That's about one employee inc office and employment overhead.

use www.techtir.ie contact page to contact me if you want additional free help and advice.

Sam Russell

Given the large number of channels that can be on DTT, and the prevalence of PVRs, small channels could use the off peak time, like 2am to 6 am to broadcast their programmes at no cost. It would save channels money because they do not have to pay for content during these hours.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Given the large number of channels that can be on DTT, and the prevalence of PVRs, small channels could use the off peak time, like 2am to 6 am to broadcast their programmes at no cost. It would save channels money because they do not have to pay for content during these hours.

How many IdTV's have PVRs? What Saorview Box has PVR? In the 1980s (and 1990s) there was a higher prevalence of VCRs yet few channels broadcast between the hours of 2am to 6am. This is a cop out to proper scheduling.

watty

Yes, laudable as it is as a backup plan, we don't want BAI to take this approach.

Elmo

I wonder how Section 481 should be used at time but I feel that is a different discussion (it covers both TV and Film, it should be for Feature Film/Documentry or TV Drama but not simply TV and Film). Again OTT.

But tonight's retrospective on TV3 while entertaining (bar that idiot from Ireland AM) was nothing more than lumping old archival footage together. Surely the vox pop, archive footage and talking heads could have been whole funded by TV3.

In all it was a good show (prob just from a nostalgic perspective) but the S&V fund should be there for strong Documentary (Natural Histories, Natural World, Spirituality/religious, political, investigatory), TV Drama mini-serials and Film.

Strange to see BBC presenter commenting on the series and the Head of CBBC when most of the show was aimed at RTÉ's Young People's Department/Presentation department. I didn't get to see it all can't find it on TV3's site. So perhaps others will be interviewed.

Elmo

Sorry if this is a zombie thread, though I didn't want to create another Sound and Vision Thread. <<< I think I am okay 9months ????

Setanta to Receive 460,000 this round. TV3's new soap gets 50% funding.

watty

A disgrace.

Corrupt

Criminal that Setanta gets 1c.

Or that a Soap gets any.


Who decides this? Where is the auditing and transparency. How can they justify
a) Funding a Pay TV channel that is only on Sky & UPC.
b) Funding a mass market low common denominator program such as a "soap". Such a program is almost certainly self funding and does nothing for Education or Culture or likely to be a good "ambassadorial" program for export.

Can we get this WASTE of licence payer's money stopped?

TV3 are in breach of Analogue licence. They should not get a steel washer till they put their house in order and commit to be on Saorsat before ASO. They are a disgrace.

The Sound & Vision fund managers are despicable!

channnels

Whatever about the morality of TV3 or Setanta taking Sound and Vision funding Saorsat is a commercial enterprise by RTE NL and is not governed by legislation. TV3 and TG4 will go on Saorsat when they get a free ride.