Boyles VS Powers

JONJO THE MISER

Was in Boyles today and saw a special for the 14:40 at Kelso, the special was for all horses to complete the race at 8/11.
A few minutes later i head across the road to Powers where they have the exact same special at guess what price guys?

Warper

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Was in Boyles today and saw a special for the 14:40 at Kelso, the special was for all horses to complete the race at 8/11.
A few minutes later i head across the road to Powers where they have the exact same special at guess what price guys?

50-1

okidoki987

I'd say 9/4.
Wouldn't be the 1st time it's happened and won't be the last.
Last Saturday Boyles were 4/5 all to finish in a 6 runner race, Powers were 9/4.
Friday Boyles were 3/1 all to finish, Powers were 4/1, Sporting Index were 8/15 all not to finish.
Happens all the time.

JONJO THE MISER

Powers were 5/2, what a joke Boyles are its quiet clear that they are trying to pull a fast one on there customers.

okidoki987

Wonder what would happen if you asked Boyles for the other side?

UrbanSea

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Powers were 5/2, what a joke Boyles are its quiet clear that they are trying to pull a fast one on there customers.

Was this the lovely Boyles where one can place their bets in PP on Prospect Hill before going to Gala and getting a chicken fillet roll with 2 salads and a pack of Tayto and Lucozade before going across and sitting in the huge seats in Boyles?

JONJO THE MISER

UrbanSea wrote: »

Was this the lovely Boyles where one can place their bets in PP on Prospect Hill before going to Gala and getting a chicken fillet roll with 2 salads and a pack of Tayto and Lucozade before going across and sitting in the huge seats in Boyles?

The very one:D,
2 salads? i usually get 3 with my roll:p

premierstone

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Powers were 5/2, what a joke Boyles are its quiet clear that they are trying to pull a fast one on there customers.

Is that not the art of being a bookmaker?? To convince the perspective punter he is getting value when he's not, special bets like this dont show up on oddschecker or the like and you would be amazed how many idiots would have backed it with Boyles.

shaggykev

How does the OP know Powers price was right

Maybe Powers were off the wall and Boyles had the true value of the bet. Perhaps it really a 4/5 chance. Does any bookie price these up on the web?

Think Cashmans used to have it on aertel but they're gone now from there and web

okidoki987

How does the OP know Powers price was right

If you're backing them who cares, best price gets the business.

laughter189

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Powers were 5/2, what a joke Boyles are its quiet clear that they are trying to pull a fast one on there customers.

Did all horses complete the race ?

UrbanSea

shaggykev wrote: »

How does the OP know Powers price was right

Maybe Powers were off the wall and Boyles had the true value of the bet. Perhaps it really a 4/5 chance. Does any bookie price these up on the web?

Think Cashmans used to have it on aertel but they're gone now from there and web

Because Boyles is directly across the street.


Hey Jonjo do they charge extra? What salads do you get?

wicklowdub

shaggykev wrote: »

How does the OP know Powers price was right

Maybe Powers were off the wall and Boyles had the true value of the bet. Perhaps it really a 4/5 chance. Does any bookie price these up on the web?

Think Cashmans used to have it on aertel but they're gone now from there and web

Sky Bet

Bluetonic

shaggykev wrote: »

How does the OP know Powers price was right

Maybe Powers were off the wall and Boyles had the true value of the bet. Perhaps it really a 4/5 chance.

Exactly. The original poster sees two prices on the same outcome and presumes the shortest of these is the incorrect one and that they are trying to pull the wool over their customers eyes.

Without knowing anything about the book of each bookmaker or their stake limit for the market, nor the actual real event like-minded of each outcome it's pretty ludicrous to draw conclusions.

Away from this which is the better bet?

Bookmaker 1 Selection A @ 5/1
Bookmaker 2 Selection A @ 7/1.

You can get €100 on with Bookmaker 1, or €50 with Bookmaker 2.

Now unless your having a fun bet it's clear to see that price alone is not the only determining factor on who is the best bookmaker to deal with. Of course your going to think that Bookmaker 1 is ripping you off, but is he? Thankfully opinions make the bookmaking business go around there's no right or wrong answer, you need to consider more than what you see.

jive

Bluetonic wrote: »

Exactly. The original poster sees two prices on the same outcome and presumes the shortest of these is the incorrect one and that they are trying to pull the wool over their customers eyes.

Without knowing anything about the book of each bookmaker or their stake limit for the market, nor the actual real event like-minded of each outcome it's pretty ludicrous to draw conclusions.

Away from this which is the better bet?

Bookmaker 1 Selection A @ 5/1
Bookmaker 2 Selection A @ 7/1.

You can get €100 on with Bookmaker 1, or €50 with Bookmaker 2.

Now unless your having a fun bet it's clear to see that price alone is not the only determining factor on who is the best bookmaker to deal with. Of course your going to think that Bookmaker 1 is ripping you off, but is he? Thankfully opinions make the bookmaking business go around there's no right or wrong answer, you need to consider more than what you see.

The best bet is always the one with the best price. In the scenario above you would obviously have a max bet on the greater price and then put the difference on the worse price.

Cartel Mike

Boyles and Ladbrooks are awful firms.

I can't think what they've got going for them. They make everything thats even money elsewhere into 10/11 or 4/5 shots. Its paranoia on a grand scale.
Boyles has copied Power's markets to the point its hard to actually call them Boyles.
A year ago Ladbrooks still didn't even have handicap or over/under markets on football matches in case people made money. They still don't on championship matches and most other leagues.

Both firms 'specials' reek of retardedom to the point that they look like offers for 'special' people only.

At least Powers specials are genuine offers and they're odds are at least competitive.

Its hard enough yet Boyles and Ladbrooks will always insist that the 'edge' gets taken away.

myflipflops

Cartel Mike wrote: »

Boyles and Ladbrooks are awful firms.

I can't think what they've got going for them. They make everything thats even money elsewhere into 10/11 or 4/5 shots. Its paranoia on a grand scale.
Boyles has copied Power's markets to the point its hard to actually call them Boyles.
A year ago Ladbrooks still didn't even have handicap or over/under markets on football matches in case people made money. They still don't on championship matches and most other leagues.

Both firms 'specials' reek of retardedom to the point that they look like offers for 'special' people only.

At least Powers specials are genuine offers and they're odds are at least competitive.

Its hard enough yet Boyles and Ladbrooks will always insist that the 'edge' gets taken away.

Not sure where you are getting this from but as a general rule, Boyles take less margin than Paddy POwers on most markets. Powers have become a bit more competitive over the previous year but Boyles average price would still be slightly bigger. It comes from the difference of being a PLC and a privately owned company.

I never get the whole 'this company is better than that company' thing. The market should be seen as a whole, not as a group of individuals. By open to betting with absolutely anybody when the situation is right.

Cartel Mike

myflipflops wrote: »

Not sure where you are getting this from but as a general rule, Boyles take less margin than Paddy POwers on most markets. Powers have become a bit more competitive over the previous year but Boyles average price would still be slightly bigger.

Years of experience tell me that this isn't true, if it were i wouldn't have slated them. I Have no love for any bookmakers but often Ladbroks don't even have an actual market so i'm left with two choices( Shops) and most of the time when Powers are 5/4 Boyles unfortunatley are 6/5 , Powers are 1/2 Boyles are 4/9 .
And im taking about most the of 2-way markets + handicaps in team sports or more importantly the markets that I bet on.
Of course you go where the price is and hand on heart, the last 5 saturdays it hasn't been Boyles. If i go there my 16/1 acca suddenly becomes 14.8/1 or similiar. Happens every week.

myflipflops

Cartel Mike wrote: »

Years of experience tell me that this isn't true, if it were i wouldn't have slated them. I Have no love for any bookmakers but often Ladbroks don't even have an actual market so i'm left with two choices( Shops) and most of the time when Powers are 5/4 Boyles unfortunatley are 6/5 , Powers are 1/2 Boyles are 4/9 .
And im taking about most the of 2-way markets + handicaps in team sports or more importantly the markets that I bet on.
Of course you go where the price is and hand on heart, the last 5 saturdays it hasn't been Boyles. If i go there my 16/1 acca suddenly becomes 14.8/1 or similiar. Happens every week.

These 2 way markets are exactly where they have traditionally been bigger.

Up to maybe 6 months ago, the companies used the below opposite prices:

Powers took more margin as a matter of procedure. Boyles took less to compete. If Powers were 5/4 and Boyles 6/5, it would just have meant Powers were 4/7 and Boyles 4/6 on the other side.

I have no strong feelings on either company really but this is fact.


Power
1/3 and 2/1
4/11 and 15/8
2/5 and 7/4
4/9 and 13/8
1/2 and 6/4
8/15 and 11/8
4/7 and 5/4
8/13 and 6/5
4/6 and 11/10
8/11 and evens

Boyles
1/3 and 9/4
4/11 and 2/1
2/5 and 15/8
4/9 and 7/4
1/2 and 13/8
8/15 and 6/4
4/7 and 11/8
8/13 and 13/10
4/6 and 6/5
8/11 and 11/10

Bluetonic

jive wrote: »

The best bet is always the one with the best price. In the scenario above you would obviously have a max bet on the greater price and then put the difference on the worse price.

But is one bookmaker worse than the other? Both the same?

Cartel Mike

myflipflops wrote: »

These 2 way markets are exactly where they have traditionally been bigger.

Up to maybe 6 months ago, the companies used the below opposite prices:

Powers took more margin as a matter of procedure. Boyles took less to compete. If Powers were 5/4 and Boyles 6/5, it would just have meant Powers were 4/7 and Boyles 4/6 on the other side.

I have no strong feelings on either company really but this is fact.


Power
1/3 and 2/1
4/11 and 15/8
2/5 and 7/4
4/9 and 13/8
1/2 and 6/4
8/15 and 11/8
4/7 and 5/4
8/13 and 6/5
4/6 and 11/10
8/11 and evens

Boyles
1/3 and 9/4
4/11 and 2/1
2/5 and 15/8
4/9 and 7/4
1/2 and 13/8
8/15 and 6/4
4/7 and 11/8
8/13 and 13/10
4/6 and 6/5
8/11 and 11/10

i get exactly what your saying here and although i wasn't aware of this i take your word for it .

But even if this was the case until 6 months ago it wouldn't have made any difference at all to my point.

Eg Arsenal play Blackpool and im looking for over 2.5 goals, if powers go 1/2 chances usually are Boyles will be 4/9 .
In this case i couldn't care if boyles go 10/1 on the other side (under 2.5 goals) as i don't want it . To me it would be useless and if i wanted to use boyles id have to take the lower odds and thats sort of the point.

On anything that is the 'likley' outcome 80% of the time(my estimation) Boyles will chip the odds . And in the case mentioned would it really have mattered if Boyles went 7/4 instead of 13/8 on Under 2.5 goals? Thats a bit like going 8/1 instead of 7/1 on Wales to beat England today. It makes no difference at all to the average honest punter.

jive

Bluetonic wrote: »

But is one bookmaker worse than the other? Both the same?

I don't know, do you mean like the customer service? If so I back online and most places (if not all) have a live help feature, either way as long as the bookie is reliable (pays out) and you get the best price you can't go wrong.

myflipflops

Cartel Mike wrote: »

And in the case mentioned would it really have mattered if Boyles went 7/4 instead of 13/8 on Under 2.5 goals? Thats a bit like going 8/1 instead of 7/1 on Wales to beat England today. It makes no difference at all to the average honest punter.

Of course it does. It makes it more likely that the average, honest punter will win money.

In the above example, gives you a 1.39% better chance as that's the difference in margin.

Cartel Mike

myflipflops wrote: »

Of course it does. It makes it more likely that the average, honest punter will win money.

In the above example, gives you a 1.39% better chance as that's the difference in margin.

More likely to win money if your betting on Wales to beat England?- Absoultley.


When are Wales ever gonna beat England?

I think you've missed the point. You will always get a better price in Boyles if your betting on something that 'isn't' going to win.
That isn't gonna make you money is it.

In the examples above can you see how they will chip the prices on the odds that 'will' win ? ie -'over' 2.5 goals in an Arsenal v Blackpool game.

Hence the margins(that don't actually exist anymore
anyway) made absolultley no difference.

Don't get me started on Ladbrokes!

premierstone

The lack of basic understanding of how to price up a book here is hilarious tbh, so we have in affect people slating Boyles and Ladbrokes for being more knowledgable than Powers?? i.e. been shorter about what is more likely to occur, sounds like good bussiness sense to me??

shaggykev

Is Cartel Mike taking the Mick? Or is he another punter that has bought the Paddy Power spin?


While Powers are great at garnishing loads of publicity & will throw the odd loss leader on big events, say to day they are poor value.

The slating of Ladbrokes is something I would of agreed with before but I think they have really upped their game recently. Better odds than Powers & Boyles at Cheltenham, still useless for footie though.

Cartel Mike

How am i taking the Mick?

Powers consistantly give punters more of a chance.
Why do they do this?
Well?
If you think its because they don't know how to price up a book you've not very bright are you!

Christ don't you think its about drumming up a trade?
Gamblers statisticly loose in the long run.

That said who are you gonna bet with someone whos gonna give you a better return or someone who refuses to offer you that curtisy?

How many times or ways do you want me to explain that?

Jesus, a little latteral thinking guys ....please!

shaggykev

How do they give us more of a chance? Because they were better odds on one occasion on an overs/unders bet on one side but you can't recall odds on the other side as that side was a sure fire loser so why bother looking at it


Powers are rarely blacktype on Oddschecker. They rely on fooling punters with slight of hand gimmicks like money back cue card to give the impression they are the best odds all the time and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker

If you want to back something at the best odds shop around, if you want to back something at an inferior price but might get your money back once and awhile, stick with publicity powers

Cartel Mike

shaggykev wrote: »

How do they give us more of a chance? Because they were better odds on one occasion on an overs/unders bet on one side but you can't recall odds on the other side as that side was a sure fire loser so why bother looking at it


Powers are rarely blacktype on Oddschecker. They rely on fooling punters with slight of hand gimmicks like money back cue card to give the impression they are the best odds all the time and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker

If you want to back something at the best odds shop around, if you want to back something at an inferior price but might get your money back once and awhile, stick with publicity powers

I hate when people do this, when they can't be arsed to actually 'read' sombody's post or even bother trying to understand it, just wade in with the wrong end of the stick, don't bother reading the 'TITLE' of the thread and make absoultley no effort in giving their own opinion on the subject.
Im non the wiser here mate ... So who do you bet with more .. Powers or Boyles ? Maybe you'd be so kind as to elaborate on your answer as thats what this thread is afterall about. Thanks.

Firstly the examples are 'examples' i have no idea what the 'actual' odds were for Blackpool v Arsenal. If you bothered reading you'd know that. It was an example of a trend i experience with both firms so much so that it happens practically every weekend.
Secondly, if you'd bothered reading you would have 'read' that both firms odds were based on 'my' experience of using them over a good few years and also based on placing bets in the 'shops' 'not' the internet . You can only base opinions from actual experience,what do you base yours on?
Thirdly , read the thread title , tell me where the relevence to oddschecker is here? We're comparing 'two' firms, two firms with 'shops' all around the country ,often within throwing distance of one another .
Now i've repeated myself too many times . I stand by EVERYTHING i've said,so are you gonna actually give your opinion or not mate? Waiting with baited breath here. Maybe you can give an example or two while your at it.

myflipflops

Cartel Mike wrote: »

More likely to win money if your betting on Wales to beat England?- Absoultley.


When are Wales ever gonna beat England?

I think you've missed the point. You will always get a better price in Boyles if your betting on something that 'isn't' going to win.
That isn't gonna make you money is it.

In the examples above can you see how they will chip the prices on the odds that 'will' win ? ie -'over' 2.5 goals in an Arsenal v Blackpool game.

Hence the margins(that don't actually exist anymore
anyway) made absolultley no difference.
!

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't really know where to begin Mike! The thought process in bold is pretty much the reason well functioning bookmakers make profits.

Margin - and therefore price - is the ONLY thing that matters in gambling. That's not an opinion either, it's accepted fact by pretty much anybody in the industry I've ever spoken to.

Cartel Mike

myflipflops wrote: »

Margin - and therefore price - is the ONLY thing that matters in gambling.

Respect your opinon but this time i don't understand.

You've completley missed 'selection' . If Your selections wrong 'margin' or 'price' isn't actually going to mean a hell of alot.