Why is the dropout rate for comp applications in Dcu so high?

MerduJapon

im planning on doing it next year, hence I want to know why people drop out so frequently:s.

Pygmalion

People keep picking it without looking into what it actually involves.

MerduJapon

i see, well from what ive heard it is a very maths based course and im ok with that, is the maths aspect the reason a lot of people drop out, do they pick it thinkin they will just be learning tips and tricks on the mac?

wonderfulname

Don't pay attention to drop out rates, they're pretty meaningless, research the course yourself and see if its a good fit to both your interests and abilities, if so dropping out should never be a problem for you.

Pygmalion

MerduJapon wrote: »

i see, well from what ive heard it is a very maths based course and im ok with that, is the maths aspect the reason a lot of people drop out, do they pick it thinkin they will just be learning tips and tricks on the mac?

Maths and programming, if you're ok with those and are willing to put in the effort it should be fine (that's not to say it won't get difficult after first or second year).

No idea what people think they'll be learning when they pick it, I've never gotten a straight answer and never really pushed anyone for one, but they seem surprised as hell to discover that they're actually expected to know about programming and how computers work.

wonderfulname

People do seem to be under the impression that computers no longer require working "under the hood" so to speak, perhaps they expect that if they have competent computer skills they have very little else to learn?

irish_boy90

be willing to do maths and learn a thing or two and you will be fine.

If you do it because you have a mac or like the facebooks you don't last long.

Jiggy

irish_boy90 wrote: »

If you do it because you have a mac or like the facebooks you don't last long.

LIES !

professore

Because people's parents tell them "deres great money in dem compuuuter yokes", they pay for 3 repeat leaving certs to get them in the course, only to discover that their precious has no aptitude for IT. I had a guy in my computer degree who hated anything to do with it and got through the exams through a combination of sheer hard work, memorizing and copying other people's assignments, to say at the end he had learned "keyboard skills".

If you are already building your own PCs or writing your own programs, or have a burning interest in staying up all night doing that, for FUN then go for it. Otherwise choose a different career path.

MerduJapon

thanks a lot for the advice i dont mind maths and i will look into what programming is....my uncle did the course about 10 years ago unfotunately he lives in new york but the next time i see him i will ask him in detail what the course is about, for the record im not on facebook, it consumes people. but i do have a mac and it is unreal:P

Attol

MerduJapon wrote: »

my uncle did the course about 10 years ago unfotunately he lives in new york but the next time i see him i will ask him in detail what the course is aboutP

The course has changed a fair bit over the years so you may be best off reading the threads on this forum(a quick search should bring up a few results on CA) or contacting the school of computing directly. There are also a fair few CA grads and students lurking around here.

Don't let the dropout rate scare you. A lot of people just don't research college courses enough and end up in programmes that are not suited to them. Just pick what you enjoy.

blacon

The dropout rate also has a lot to do with the points requirements for CA being so low. This makes everyone think that it's an easy course, they don't realize that points are based on number of appicants. So you have people who scrape 315 points or whatever it is now going into CA because they didn't get any of their other choices. It's those who drop out.

If you are good at maths then you have a logical brain and you should be fine. The fact that you're even here asking this question shows you have more interest than most who enter the course, so you'll put in the effort.

johnmcdnl

you put a 600 point student into business and a lad who got 20 points into business and the 600 point student will do better in business course in college


you put a 600 point student into law and a lad who got 20 points into law and the 600 point student will do better in law course in college


you put a 600 point student into journalism and a lad who got 20 points into journalism and the 600 point student will do better in journalism course in college

you put a 600 point student into a computer course like CA and a 20 point student into CA and it'll come down to the person themselves... 600 point student might be really book smart but when it comes to logically thinking for themselves and having a real interest in the underlying systems of a computer they could be lost in a day and dropout because they hate it...

CA is one of those courses that you really need to have the aptitude for because it's not about learning stuff off by heart and reciting.. it's about understanding and thinking more than anything else....

the points are based on demand for the course - not how hard the course is... everyone thinks that medicine is really hard because you need in or around 570 points to get in - that's down to demand for the course and limited spaces... CA doesn't have such a huge demand and people see low points and think oh that's an easy course and I love playing Call of Duty and going on Facebook and then realise 2 days in that they hate the course...

people who choose business say would like business in school in general but because CA is basically completely different to anything you've ever done a lot of people get lured in and then realise they don't like it at all...

if your the sort of person who loves tricking around with your computer just for the laugh basically you have no reason to dropout of CA unless your just really lazy in college... you get a student who did the course because there's money in computers according to everyone but their interest in computers come down to getting on Facebook and watching streams to TV shows then these people end up getting a reality check when they get to college because they didn't realise you have to learn how a computer actually works and how a program actually works... if your not suited to that sort of stuff you'll drop out really fast...

it's not down to bad lectures in DCU/really hard course in DCU - it's just down to people choosing it because it looks easy before actually looking at what the course is about...

at the end of the day business is always going to be business, law will be law, science with be science, teaching will be teaching but computer courses won't be about playing COD4 online and going facebook and this catches so many people out which leads to CA's huge dropout rate

MerduJapon

thanks everyone for all the advice and info, i am definately doing it now.....ultimately what i gather from what every one is saying is that its pretty much all about the enthusiasm of the person doing it (and some intellect obv). is there anyone here who is currently doing it?

foFox

Yes, I am a first year CA student and I am just about to go to the Operating Systems lecture .

--SmItHy--

I'm in first year and I will admit it is quite hard for me but i'll also admit that the reason for that is not only due to the course but my own lack of motivation!. Its not one of these courses that you can sail through with ease but the degree at the end of it all means a lot in the IT industry. If you're willing to sit at a computer for a lot of time, understand your work instead of just doing it(especially in programming) and go to tutorials you should be okay. Just dont do what I did and turn into a lazy ****(i'm paying for it now!).

WhiskeyGoblin

Question to the 2 lads who are in year 1, were you expected to know everything off the bat?

StiLL-TrAiNinG

marko93 wrote: »

Question to the 2 lads who are in year 1, were you expected to know everything off the bat?

You aren't.

That said, some people genuinely seem to have gone into this course without ever so much as turning a computer on.

If you go to lectures and go to tutorials you can easily pass anything CA will throw at you. (Except maybe maths, but there's a maths learning center that can help you there, if you put some effort in)

WhiskeyGoblin

Thanks! Appreciate the help

MerduJapon

awh great and did you do higher maths for the leaving? would u be alri if u did pass maths, cos im thinkin of dropping cos its not a course requirement......yes i heard its a good degree to have one of the best available in ireland:)

Pygmalion

MerduJapon wrote: »

would u be alri if u did pass maths, cos im thinkin of dropping cos its not a course requirement......

You're going to end up having to do a good bit of the Higher Level maths course anyway, if you're able to do it now it'll make first year a whole lot easier, if you're not able to do it think about whether you'll be able to do it next year.

k100

MerduJapon wrote: »

awh great and did you do higher maths for the leaving? would u be alri if u did pass maths, cos im thinkin of dropping cos its not a course requirement......yes i heard its a good degree to have one of the best available in ireland:)

I did honors maths until the day of the leaving but i dropped as i wasn't confident enough. Got a A in pass currently in 2nd year CA maths is difficult
but getting by if u do the work and pull your weight u will be fine.

zack_k

Well I'm a third year in CA, and I've basically learned that you'll like it if you're interested in it, and hate it otherwise.

But it's purely as one of the other lads said, if you do the work, you should be O.K, and if you feel comfortable in the course after a few weeks you should be grand.

And if you want to know a bit about the dropout rate, when I started there were 160 in the class, by second year it went to 60, and now it's 46. But a good few transfered to EC in first year too, so it's not all dropout.

evercloserunion

johnmcdnl wrote: »

you put a 600 point student into business and a lad who got 20 points into business and the 600 point student will do better in business course in college


you put a 600 point student into law and a lad who got 20 points into law and the 600 point student will do better in law course in college


you put a 600 point student into journalism and a lad who got 20 points into journalism and the 600 point student will do better in journalism course in college

you put a 600 point student into a computer course like CA and a 20 point student into CA and it'll come down to the person themselves... 600 point student might be really book smart but when it comes to logically thinking for themselves and having a real interest in the underlying systems of a computer they could be lost in a day and dropout because they hate it...

I love how computer courses are apparently the only ones that require logical thinking :rolleyes:

Anyway, in addition to people not researching the course enough, I think the points system is quite broken when it comes to courses which utilise a small, specific set of skills (relative to the leaving cert). A better system would probably be to have fewer places going for courses like CA, but then award bonus points for things like honours maths. Also, a computer-related course at leaving cert level would help IMO. There are arguments for and against having optional subjects like intro to programming available for leaving cert, but it would at least give people a taste of what they'd be getting into with a CA/CS course (apart, of course, from the taste they get from maths and perhaps physics).

Noodleworm

I think people choosing the right course is really up to them, All that can be done is encourage them to research it.
But really, most courses, you can find a HUGE amount of info before putting it down on your CAO form. Even just asking people about it here on boards is a start, but most colleges will give you lists of modules, and whats covered in each.
Computer applications probably has the most info online if you consider all the resources you can get about programming in general too.

I just don't see why the whole system should be changed because leaving cert students don't know what there applying for...

ManInTheMiddle

I'm just waiting to hear back from my interview for this course. I'm really looking forward to it and really hope I get in.

Does anyone know how long ye do be waiting to hear back from the interview??

H2G2

ManInTheMiddle wrote: »

Does anyone know how long ye do be waiting to hear back from the interview??

Can be up to a month or even a bit more. It depends on CAO, as they are the bottlekneck in passing along decisions and not DCU/CA.

WhiskeyGoblin

ManInTheMiddle wrote: »

I'm just waiting to hear back from my interview for this course. I'm really looking forward to it and really hope I get in.

Does anyone know how long ye do be waiting to hear back from the interview??

You had an interview for CA? O.o

ManInTheMiddle

Yeah had one for CA about 2.5 weeks ago. I'm going back as a mature student and really looking forward to it.

ManInTheMiddle

H2G2 wrote: »

Can be up to a month or even a bit more. It depends on CAO, as they are the bottlekneck in passing along decisions and not DCU/CA.

Cheers man.

I heard they can take up too 6 weeks in replying. Ah well not much more I can do now, other than wait.

WhiskeyGoblin

ManInTheMiddle wrote: »

Yeah had one for CA about 2.5 weeks ago. I'm going back as a mature student and really looking forward to it.

Ohhhh right.. That makes sense. :rolleyes:

MerduJapon

well i got my letter of acceptance into CA the other day so looks like il be doing it next year.....i just a few more questions for anyone who has done it or is currently doing it....do you need to buy a laptop cos i have a small netbook just wondering do i have to invest in a good computer?.....secondly does anybody know what new leagues will be featured in fifa 12? lol

Pygmalion

MerduJapon wrote: »

do you need to buy a laptop cos i have a small netbook just wondering do i have to invest in a good computer?

No, not really.
Nothing you do (at least so far, I've just finished 2nd year) requires a particularly good computer, and the lab computers are grand for working on.

MerduJapon

oh thats great so my netbook will do? i do need any type of specific computer?

Shifty11

Can't wait to get started in CA. Quick question tho, recently bought a MacBook, would it be suitable for the course or should I purchase a windows based laptop?

k100

Shifty11 wrote: »

Can't wait to get started in CA. Quick question tho, recently bought a MacBook, would it be suitable for the course or should I purchase a windows based laptop?

Pygmalion - waits for a good response to this.

Yeah macbook should be fine for the course if you need to do something that has to be windows then you can do it on the lap computers.
Just figure how to do it on a mac first i guess.

JoePie

The CA building and labs stay open till 10pm, Monday to Friday and they open at like 6:30am or some mental hour like that. Sometimes they close later because the security guard is slow comnig around. The labs are open on the weekend also. You could do this course without ever buying your own laptop.

At the same time it's handy to be able to do the assignments yourself at home or if you're travelling back down the country on the train or something.

foFox

Shifty11 wrote: »

Can't wait to get started in CA. Quick question tho, recently bought a MacBook, would it be suitable for the course or should I purchase a windows based laptop?

You can download everything you need, Eclipse and NetBeans for Java, plus u can download the extended versions of the above to be able to code pretty much in all popular languages. Also it comes with cool stuff such as apache server with php and python environment installed. OSX is unix based so that helps also when it comes to some shell scripting.

Noodleworm

If its a problem you can use Boot Camp on mac to install windows on a partition, or something like Ubuntu might be good to get used to.
Macbooks are great for college anyway, I had a Dell Laptop for first year and got a macbook for second. Its nice having something that lasts more than 3 hours battery that doesn't feel like a pile of bricks in my bag. IMO they last better so are good value.

foFox

Or instead of BootCamp you can use refit bootloader, which allows multiple OSs not only two. Early 2011 MBP 15' lasts for up to 7h.

Nanaki

I appreciate that the maths in the course is hard, but people need to be disabused of the belief that this course is "very maths based". There's a few modules of maths, yes, but there's a lot more programming.
While they require a similar kind of logical thinking, the two are still quite different.

Personally I think DCU should hold some kind of introduction to computing/programming to give people an idea of what's involved. (Although that might cause their numbers to drop which might not suit them.)