YOUR Player of The 6 Nations 2011

burkomadlad

Who is he ?

phog

burkomadlad wrote: »

Who is he ?

Who's yours?

twinytwo

parisse

jolley123

I would think it would be pretty unanimous. O'Brien did well, as did Lamont and Gray. But it has to be Sergio Parisse for deserving MOM in all the games he played and for leading Italy to their first 6 nations win over France.

toomevara

Parisse, no question. Arguably THE player of the six nations era. Would walk in to any current international squad with ease. Superb leader, brilliant technician and a great rugby brain. One of the few players who eclipses BOD in the modern era. I shudder to think what he would have achieved were he a kiwi or a bok.

England - Ashton
Scotland - Gray
Ireland - SOB
Wales - Hook
France - Parra
Italy - Parisse

overall - Parisse.

LuckyGent88

Looks like its pretty unaminous already...PARISSE all the way. Unbelievable player who always seems to do the right thing for his team along with his obvious leadership qualities.

In terms of Ireland, i would say Ross. The main positive that came out of our 6 nations campaign was our scrum IMO. It has become pretty solid and allows us much better go forward or at least standard ball unlike what the backrow and backs have been used to over last 2 years.

PhatPiggins

Deleted User wrote: »

England - Ashton
Scotland - Gray
Ireland - SOB
Wales - Hook
France - Parra
Italy - Parisse

overall - Parisse.

Dusautoir for France by so so much in my book. Thought Ashton was badly found out against Ireland, would go for Tom Woods myself. For a guy who was a rookie coming into the tournie he showed Richard Hill like qualities and was the only England player who stood out yesterday.

Would agree with you on everything else.

defadman

dont like admitting it but it has to be ashton

PhatPiggins

defadman wrote: »

dont like admitting it but it has to be ashton

How many tries did he score against decent teams? Good player but not the finished article yet

tommy57

chris ashton at least he made 6 nations interesting. another would be brian o driscoll .them 2 for me.

burkomadlad

phog wrote: »

Who's yours?

Brian O'Driscoll , The man shows up again and again .

durkadurka

That big horse of a number four for scotland with the hair.


That was how we described richie gray on my historic first trip to Murrayfield this year.

Gordon Gecko

HAS to be Tom Court: great scrummager, skillfull round the park and a natural born leader

DuncansGhost

Sean o Brien any day of the week

GerM

Richie Gray by some distance for me. Brilliant in the line out and has hands and athleticism that no lock should possess.

Parisse is a top class player but I'd rate him even more highly if he played in a more clinical fashion. He tries to do too much which results in him missing tackles and turning over a fair bit of possession by forcing offloads or trying to make plays where retaining possession is more beneficial. He's always good for turning over possession a couple of times in a match. Unfortunately, playing for Italy, it's difficult for him to sit back and let others do things without the pace and power he can.

Burgo

Parisse for me.

pappyodaniel

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

HAS to be Tom Court: great scrummager, skillfull round the park and a natural born leader

Ahem, you fail to realise the impact of other notable subs in the form of Leo Cullen and Paddy Wallace.

Gordon Gecko

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Ahem, you fail to realise the impact of other notable subs in the form of Leo Cullen and Paddy Wallace.

It was a very tough decision. It's hard to say whether it will be Court or Paddy Wallace as captain for the World Cup. I think with the likes of Court, Wallace and of course Mick O' Driscoll we're going to walk the tournament.

LuckyGent88

Andrea Masi has become the 1st Italian to win the player of the championship award.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/23032011/58/six-nations-masi-named-player-six-nations.html

Strange that the 1st Italian to win wasnt Parisse

handsomecake

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Andrea Masi has become the 1st Italian to win the player of the championship award.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/23032011/58/six-nations-masi-named-player-six-nations.html

Strange that the 1st Italian to win wasnt Parisse

not really in my opinion.i think the parisse love in is bordering on fanboi-ism.
he is a filthy player,albeit extremely gifted.
he is technically brilliant tackling running etc,i even think he scored a drop goal once.
however he is so greedy its unvelievable at times. he takes it in to contact when there is an easy pass.
he knows he is a big fish in a small pond,and plays for himself quite often.

if he played for the all blacks,boks or aus he would have been dropped for being too self indulgent .


dont get me wrong ,i think he is a fantastic rugby player but a glory hunter none the less

tom thum

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

HAS to be Tom Court: great scrummager, skillfull round the park and a natural born leader

u serious. ? it had to be paddy wallace.

handsomecake

handsomecake wrote: »

not really in my opinion.i think the parisse love in is bordering on fanboi-ism.
he is a filthy player,albeit extremely gifted.
he is technically brilliant tacking running etc,i even think he scored a drop goal once.
however he is so greedy its unvelievable at times. he takes it in to contact when their is an easy pass.
he knows he is a big fish in a small pond,and plays for himself quite often.

if he played for the all blacks,boks or aus he would have been dropped for being too self indulgent .


dont get me wrong ,i think he is a fantastic rugby player but a glory hunter none the less

Parisse?

R U Sure?:eek:

profitius

toomevara wrote: »

Parisse, no question. Arguably THE player of the six nations era. Would walk in to any current international squad with ease. Superb leader, brilliant technician and a great rugby brain. One of the few players who eclipses BOD in the modern era. I shudder to think what he would have achieved were he a kiwi or a bok.

Some plain girls can seem attractive if they're surrounded by ugly girls.

I think Parisse is a top class player but, for example, is he better than Harinordoquy? I sometimes think playing for Italy is not a handicap for him because it allows him to stand out from the crowd.

I don't watch the top 14 but for those who do, does Parisse stand out as much playing top 14 rugby?

handsomecake

Deleted User wrote: »

Parisse?

R U Sure?:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LtwYOQ0mO4

i am indeed

handsomecake

toomevara wrote: »

Parisse, no question. Arguably THE player of the six nations era. Would walk in to any current international squad with ease. Superb leader, brilliant technician and a great rugby brain. One of the few players who eclipses BOD in the modern era. I shudder to think what he would have achieved were he a kiwi or a bok.

might get in the aus team with palu injured.

wouldnt get in the all blacks team, read is the best 8 in the world.
they also have kaino,mccaw(talk of him moving to 6 post 2011 to accomodate todd ),todd,vito and the form loosie in the competition adam thomson. so the allblacks couldnt even accomodate him at 6 or 7 either.

you could argue he would get in ahead of spies who has turned into a bit of a show pony who for all his size doesnt seem to fancy any of the donkey work any more

toomevara

This may come as a shock but there are no angels on an international rugby pitch, and there certainly aint any in an international pack, regardless of national affiliation. Parisse is an astonishingly gifted player with a few rough edges and the odd disciplinary blot on the copy book. Certainly not 'filthy', complete overstatement. If that's 'fanboi-ism' sign me up. One of the finest players of the modern era, indeed any era and damn the inevitable begrudgers...this literally is a case of don't hate the player, hate the game....

toomevara

handsomecake wrote: »

you could argue he would get in ahead of spies who has turned into a bit of a show pony who for all his size doesnt seem to fancy any of the donkey work any more

+1, so true re: Spies...resting on d'oul laurels a bit.

GerM

profitius wrote: »

Some plain girls can seem attractive if they're surrounded by ugly girls.

I think Parisse is a top class player but, for example, is he better than Harinordoquy? I sometimes think playing for Italy is not a handicap for him because it allows him to stand out from the crowd.

I don't watch the top 14 but for those who do, does Parisse stand out as much playing top 14 rugby?

I'm very much in this camp. He is a very gifted player but I don't think he maximises his ability. If he was Irish I have no doubt he would receive criticism for his generally low tackle count and hanging out in the backs a lot. As I mentioned above, he takes on too much himself and ends up gifting possession to the opposition on at least two occasions in every match. Also, for a bloke who isn't particularly heavy and is 6'5" he doesn't threaten whatsoever on opposition line outs. He's similar to Harinordoquy and Croft in athleticism and size/shape but they are immeasurably better in the set piece.

In the T14 Parisse does stand out as he is a top class player but not to the extent he does for Italy. He doesn't drop deep as much to take every ball. He doesn't take on as much ball as they've several other skillful ball carriers. Still definitely one of their better players on a regular basis though.

He's a world class talent but I do think there's too much made of him and I have no doubt that there would be far less furore over him if he played for a top 6 nation. Kieran Read is far and away the best 8 in world rugby currently but doesn't receive nearly the amount of gushing praise that Parisse does.

The_Kew_Tour

Parisse but think James Hook also had fine six nations considering he played out of position and was MOM against Ireland.

Sean O Brien also had great 6N

laft foot

handsomecake wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LtwYOQ0mO4

i am indeed

Sorry but i cant disagrre more with your examples; how many no. 8s have you seen score a drop goal; He has dropped two that i can remember; 1 in a test match; you call him dirty, does that make your cherrished kiwi Mealamu or Umaga filthy; take off your kiwi tinted specs (even though your actually Irish lol) for a sec and actually look at the blindingly obvious. The guy is pure class and would be pure class in an Irish, Welsh, Aussie, KIWI, English or any other jersey. Ive lost count of the amount of accolades this guy has been nominated for but still hasnt won. Please spare me the drivvle about not being good enough.

GerM

laft foot wrote: »

Sorry but i cant disagrre more with your examples; how many no. 8s have you seen score a drop goal; He has dropped two that i can remember; 1 in a test match; you call him dirty, does that make your cherrished kiwi Mealamu or Umaga filthy; take off your kiwi tinted specs (even though your actually Irish lol) for a sec and actually look at the blindingly obvious. The guy is pure class and would be pure class in an Irish, Welsh, Aussie, KIWI, English or any other jersey. Ive lost count of the amount of accolades this guy has been nominated for but still hasnt won. Please spare me the drivvle about not being good enough.

Matt Dunning nailed a drop goal from some distance. That doesn't mean he's exactly a world class player. If you take Parrise's ball carrying out of the equation, how good is the rest of his game? Genuine question. Not known for making big hits or lots of hits. Not particularly known for his work at the breakdown. Not known for his line out ability. Takes the ball on from deep a lot which limits his involvement later in play and results in him having quite a low try ratio. He has fantastic mobility and hands for a forward. In another country, I wouldn't have been surprised to see him at 12. Great player but I don't buy people saying he's an all time great without evidence. I think he has the ability but plays too much with his heart and not his head.

ormond lad

GerM wrote: »

Matt Dunning nailed a drop goal from some distance. That doesn't mean he's exactly a world class player. If you take Parrise's ball carrying out of the equation, how good is the rest of his game? Genuine question. Not known for making big hits or lots of hits. Not particularly known for his work at the breakdown. Not known for his line out ability. Takes the ball on from deep a lot which limits his involvement later in play and results in him having quite a low try ratio. He has fantastic mobility and hands for a forward. In another country, I wouldn't have been surprised to see him at 12. Great player but I don't buy people saying he's an all time great without evidence. I think he has the ability but plays too much with his heart and not his head.

you are wrong about his ability in the lineout, his positional sense in the line-out is supurb and is one of the best back row lineout jumpers around

laft foot

GerM wrote: »

Matt Dunning nailed a drop goal from some distance. That doesn't mean he's exactly a world class player. If you take Parrise's ball carrying out of the equation, how good is the rest of his game? Genuine question. Not known for making big hits or lots of hits. Not particularly known for his work at the breakdown. Not known for his line out ability. Takes the ball on from deep a lot which limits his involvement later in play and results in him having quite a low try ratio. He has fantastic mobility and hands for a forward. In another country, I wouldn't have been surprised to see him at 12. Great player but I don't buy people saying he's an all time great without evidence. I think he has the ability but plays too much with his heart and not his head.

Ill agree to disagree with you Ger; I think hes worth his weight in any team and you disagree well which im not going to argue about; My main probelm in the first place was the youtube vids pasted on. One was for a abit of handbags the other was a certain gouge which in my view looks more like a scratch but im not getting caught up with it. rugby is a dirty sport, thats one of the reasons i find it so entertaining; a dirty sport that has to be played with a mix of passion, skill and brain!

GerM

ormond lad wrote: »

you are wrong about his ability in the lineout, his positional sense in the line-out is supurb and is one of the best back row lineout jumpers around

We'll have to disagree. I think he has all the attributes to be an excellent line out operator but he doesn't do it. On his own ball he is very solid as I'd expect him to be given his handling ability, height and his athleticism. But Parisse pinching an opposition throw is a collectors item. I've watched this aspect of his game and glanced at the stats previously and he does very, very little with regards to defensive line outs. In light of his height and relative lightness I would like to see him be a more disruptive presence. The likes of Harinordoquy, Bonnaire and Croft are famed as explosive jumpers in the line out that make life very difficult on opposition ball. Parrise is nowhere near as prevalent. Even Heaslip gets up and steals significantly more ball than him in this area.

GerM

laft foot wrote: »

Ill agree to disagree with you Ger; I think hes worth his weight in any team and you disagree well which im not going to argue about; My main probelm in the first place was the youtube vids pasted on. One was for a abit of handbags the other was a certain gouge which in my view looks more like a scratch but im not getting caught up with it. rugby is a dirty sport, thats one of the reasons i find it so entertaining; a dirty sport that has to be played with a mix of passion, skill and brain!

Fair enough! Don't have access to YT videos in work but I'd agree that Parisse is certainly not a dirty player. You can accuse nearly every player that has been playing for several years of being dirty if you want to pick and choose isolated incidents.

laft foot

GerM wrote: »

Fair enough! Don't have access to YT videos in work but I'd agree that Parisse is certainly not a dirty player. You can accuse nearly every player that has been playing for several years of being dirty if you want to pick and choose isolated incidents.

For example John Hayes (red card against Leinster for stamping); in the vid posted Isaac Ross is meddling with a maul in an offside position and making no effort to remove himself; that in itself is "dirty" play.

handsomecake

handsomecake wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LtwYOQ0mO4

i am indeed

Ah, the youtube-evidence-court.

2 incidents in his entire career that you can mention and he's a dirty player? Bakies Botha, now there's a dirty player. Its hard to find an article with his name and "citing" or "suspension" not being in the same sentence.

Not committing one foul, losing the rag once, having a go at someone unnecessarily, posting a cheap shot, messing around when you shouldn't be once over the course of an entire playing career is impossible.

If you want to play the game at 100%, that margin is going to be slipped across at least once over your career.

Pull the other one that Parisse is a "filthy" player. He's not a saint, but Saints don't play rugby.

handsomecake

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah, the youtube-evidence-court.

2 incidents in his entire career that you can mention and he's a dirty player? Bakies Botha, now there's a dirty player. Its hard to find an article with his name and "citing" or "suspension" not being in the same sentence.

Not committing one foul, losing the rag once, having a go at someone unnecessarily, posting a cheap shot, messing around when you shouldn't be once over the course of an entire playing career is impossible.

If you want to play the game at 100%, that margin is going to be slipped across at least once over your career.

Pull the other one that Parisse is a "filthy" player. He's not a saint, but Saints don't play rugby.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2005/0214/sport/parisse-cited-189319.html

shall i keep digging.

the reason i can say he is filthy is because everytime i watch him play he is involved in skullduggery on or off the ball. i have nothing to gain by saying this.i have backed it up with 2 clips and a news article that i found effortessly because he is always involved .if you want me to keep trying to find evidence i will.

i agree with you about bakkies botha,very dirty player,who incidentally was on front of the judiciary this week(cleared though).he should have got another ban this week.what does bakkies botha have to do with this conversation though?

the only thing we can disagree on is our criteria for dirty.
i have shown him gouge a player
i have shown him start a fight on a guy half his size
i have posted a newspaperclip of him being cited for stamping on stephen jones.

now maybe a player has to be done 7 or 8 times before YOU consider him dirty.we just have different standards.


for instance i would consider brian o driscoll a clean player. cant think off the top of my head of him being cited or carded for fighting or illegal play.a quick scan of youtube and the net and i can still find nothing.so i presume we would agree o driscoll is clean?

handsomecake

laft foot wrote: »

Sorry but i cant disagrre more with your examples; how many no. 8s have you seen score a drop goal; He has dropped two that i can remember; 1 in a test match; you call him dirty, does that make your cherrished kiwi Mealamu or Umaga filthy; take off your kiwi tinted specs (even though your actually Irish lol) for a sec and actually look at the blindingly obvious. The guy is pure class and would be pure class in an Irish, Welsh, Aussie, KIWI, English or any other jersey. Ive lost count of the amount of accolades this guy has been nominated for but still hasnt won. Please spare me the drivvle about not being good enough.

1. umaga and mealamu are both filthy yes.
2.never said he wasnt good enough, i used the phrase "fantastic rugby player" and techincally brilliant. that sounds complimentary to me.

3. joined today and have 12 posts and you know im an irish allblacks fan.either your a re-reg or a wind up merchant.i have a fair idea who you are.
4.last time i checked the thread wasnt about me
5 o brien( green tinted), heaslip(green tinted) harinordiquay(blue tinted) and read (black tinted) are better then him. so i have a few different colour specs on

Stev_o

Parrise would easily walk into any professional team in the World. Probably one of the top inspirational captains in the world. Remove him from that Italian side and they are a shadow of themselves.

Just watch the tape of Ireland and Italy were he schooled SOB attacking from the scrum and defending.

The guy IS world class. One of the top players in the world. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous imo.

Sergio Parisse - 77 International Caps 1 Yellow Card 0 Red Cards
Sergio Parisse - 77 Internation Caps 2 Citations, 1 Ban (8 Weeks), 1 found not guilty.
Sergo Parisse - 77 Caps and 3 incidents which were deemed "above the temperment of the game" by officials on and off the pitch.

Filthy player my hole.

John Hayes has a nice Red Card on his permanent record, I suppose you think he's a dirty player?

Parisse plays the game hard, and fast, and demands respect. Its a substantial part of his, and many back rowers game.

This isn't soccer. It's rugby.

profitius

Stev_o wrote: »

Just watch the tape of Ireland and Italy were he schooled SOB attacking from the scrum and defending.

SOB hardly missed a tackle all through the tournament.

handsomecake

Stev_o wrote: »

Parrise would easily walk into any professional team in the World. Probably one of the top inspirational captains in the world. Remove him from that Italian side and they are a shadow of themselves.

Just watch the tape of Ireland and Italy were he schooled SOB attacking from the scrum and defending.

The guy IS world class. One of the top players in the world. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous imo.

who is suggesting otherwise?

1.parisse would EASILY walk into ANY professional team in the world. i disagree, he wouldnt get in to leinster,biarritz or the canterbury crusaders off the top of my head.
2.top inspirational captains in the world- correct
3. take him out of italy team and shadow of themselves- correct
4.world class-correct
5.one of the top players in the world- correct

i dont think he was the player of the six nations.i think he has had better seasons.
he is a big fish in a small pond who is accentuated by playing with a team full of muckers.they are better this year and beat france and are competing, but in seasons gone by they have been dross.
the motm awards have become a parody of themselves at this stage. its nearly always the captain or the place/kicker .like the superbowl mvp is always the quarterback.

i think parisse has a penchant for hanging out on the wings and around the fullback .he gets a lot of touches but sometimes he just be in there mixing it up.

i think people should stop with the hyperbole abuse,he is not better then kieran read .

handsomecake

profitius wrote: »

SOB hardly missed a tackle all through the tournament.

cant remember which match,i think it was scotland where he was everywhere. he battered them with linebreaks and tackles and they gave motm to rog. it was a travesty. o brien was a one man wrecking ball that day.think he had 3 breaks that game where he made impressive yardage

handsomecake

Deleted User wrote: »

Sergio Parisse - 77 International Caps 1 Yellow Card 0 Red Cards
Sergio Parisse - 77 Internation Caps 2 Citations, 1 Ban (8 Weeks), 1 found not guilty.
Sergo Parisse - 77 Caps and 3 incidents which were deemed "above the temperment of the game" by officials on and off the pitch.

Filthy player my hole.

John Hayes has a nice Red Card on his permanent record, I suppose you think he's a dirty player?

Parisse plays the game hard, and fast, and demands respect. Its a substantial part of his, and many back rowers game.

This isn't soccer. It's rugby.

dont think john hayes is dirty.

never said it was soccer.

i think in my opinion parisse is dirty.

its subjective

handsomecake

ormond lad wrote: »

you are wrong about his ability in the lineout, his positional sense in the line-out is supurb and is one of the best back row lineout jumpers around

ill give you that. he is a good lineout technician.

handsomecake

handsomecake wrote: »

dont think john hayes is dirty.

never said it was soccer.

i think in my opinion parisse is dirty. - filthy was the term used

its subjective

Subjectivity

"I think SOB is a lazy player" - Subjective? Perhaps. Wrong? Yes.

I'm done here anyhoo

handsomecake

laft foot wrote: »

For example John Hayes (red card against Leinster for stamping); in the vid posted Isaac Ross is meddling with a maul in an offside position and making no effort to remove himself; that in itself is "dirty" play.

how is meddling with a maul dirty.its a technical infringement no?
i see what ross is doing in that clip every match.
i dont see gouging in every match

handsomecake

Deleted User wrote: »

Subjectivity

"I think SOB is a lazy player" - Subjective? Perhaps. Wrong? Yes.

I'm done here anyhoo

i think in my opinion parisse is filthy.
i have posted a clip of him attacking another players eyes.an independant panel gave him 8 weeks for it.
i wasnt on that panel.
is there visible evidence his finger went in his eye-yes
we both can see that.
did he mean it?-we will never know
did you see the clip-yes
did i see the clip -yes

only our own criteria and standards apply now. it is subjective.

you say he only has 3 blemishes in 77 caps -thats fine.i dont dispute it.
apparently the guy who blinded scott quinnells brother had no previous offences.

your opinion of o brien is not wrong if you can back it up with some examples.sky plus is great for that.show him being lazy(i know you dont think he is) and you will be right.

twinytwo

handsomecake wrote: »

i think in my opinion parisse is filthy.
i have posted a clip of him attacking another players eyes.an independant panel gave him 8 weeks for it.
i wasnt on that panel.
is there visible evidence his finger went in his eye-yes
we both can see that.
did he mean it?-we will never know
did you see the clip-yes
did i see the clip -yes

only our own criteria and standards apply now. it is subjective.

you say he only has 3 blemishes in 77 caps -thats fine.i dont dispute it.
apparently the guy who blinded scott quinnells brother had no previous offences.

your opinion of o brien is not wrong if you can back it up with some examples.sky plus is great for that.show him being lazy(i know you dont think he is) and you will be right.

yawn yawn yawn.... why dont you move to NZ or something?? Get tired of posting the same stuff over and over and over again?