The Libya Deception

HavingCrack

sherdydan wrote: »

I dont understand why people are calling this a civilian uprising, the moment you put down your plackard and pick up a kalashnikov youve become a militia

It's because any attempt to protest peacefully in Libya ends in massacre and bloodshed. If a leader doesn't give a **** about hsi itnernational reputation, non violence only has so much effectiveness against violence. Unfortunately the civilian protests morphed into armed insurrection as a direct result of Gadaffis actions. If you stand there getting shot at for peaceful protests, what other option do you have but firing back?

humanji

Ok folks, two points:

Firstly, there was a bit of bickering on the thread and thankfully has calmed down. Please keep it this way.

Secondly, I've edited out all the graphic images. If you want to link to them, that's ok. Just mark the link as being graphic. It's not exactly something someone should stubble upon accidentally when they open a thread.

Penn

Stay on topic and calm it down. This thread is about Libya. Fair enough, it coincides with some old Jewish festival. But if that's the only reason why this current discussion is happening, drop it.

Mahatma coat

Libya hands out free guns
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/libya-hands-out-1m-weapons-to-citizens/story-e6frfkui-1226025072991


Still hot and heavy in Yemen
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/tanks-in-yemeni-capital-as-generals-defect/story-e6frfku0-1226025710595


Syria is hotting up
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/thousands-march-in-syrian-protest-town/story-e6frfku0-1226025737343

Some Pro Gadaffi sentiment in egypy
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/cairo-pro-gaddafi-protesters-mob-un-chief/story-e6frfku0-1226025685646

Baihran Is settling down a bit they claim
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/bahrain-king-says-foreign-plot-foiled/story-e6frfku0-1226025606905

and to top it off a CT Twist to the whole thing
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ham-operator-reveals-us-psyops-broadcast/story-e6frfku0-1226025610252

some links from one news site today

King Mob

So if the US and UN etc are willing to intervene to install a government they want to be in (which isn't exactly true), then how come they didn't intervene to keep a government they want?

In Eygpt they were pretty comfortable with Mubarak seeing as how he was honouring a peace agreement with Israel. But now that he's out of power there's a very good chance that the Muslim Brotherhood are going to get into power, that is if the military actually holds elections. The Muslim Brotherhood have stated that they would either not honour that agreement or only do so if "Israel make serious moves towards peace."
Now given that most CTers here probably believe that Israel isn't actually interested in peace, either way Egypt is likely going to be less friendly with Israel.

So why would the US or the UN allow this to happen to their evil puppet masters?

phosphate

King Mob, Hillary Clinton visited Egypt and pledged financial aid.

Using $60 million should buy a lot of politicians there...
It's referred to as an "enterprise fund" lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udJLZzEKTRM

This is when 45 million US citizens are on food stamps.. but of course, why should anyone doubt the sincerity of Ms Clinton and the "enterprise fund" ?

King Mob

phosphate wrote: »

King Mob, Hillary Clinton visited Egypt and pledged financial aid.

Using $60 million should buy a lot of politicians there...
It's referred to as an "enterprise fund" lol


This is when 45 million US citizens are on food stamps.. but of course, why should anyone doubt the sincerity of Ms Clinton and the "enterprise fund" ?

Ah of course, plug any hole with a conspiracy.

Can you point to any evidence that any of this money is being used to buy off any politicans?
Can you point to a single politician in Egypt who has changed his policy on Israel/the west because of any connection to this fund?

Or are you just assuming that it is being used this way because it conveniently explains away a gap in the conspiracy theory?

But then that still leads to another problem. When would they bother with this payment in the first place? They already had people in power that are doing what they want, and you seem to think that this payment is a dead give away.

phosphate

King Mob wrote:

Ah of course, plug any hole with a conspiracy.

What's the conspiracy?

Can you point to any evidence that any of this money is being used to buy off any politicans?
Can you point to a single politician in Egypt who has changed his policy on Israel/the west because of any connection to this fund?

Let's wait and see, shall we?

Or are you just assuming that it is being used this way because it conveniently explains away a gap in the conspiracy theory?

Still don't know what the conspiracy is...

Obviously you don't believe Hillary Clinton should be looking to invest US tax dollars on US soil...funny that.

I would have thought the top priority of US politicians was to fix the economic problems in their country first before tending to others...lol

I like you, King Mob.

King Mob

phosphate wrote: »

What's the conspiracy?

That the US is using fund from this to bribe politicians to change their policies.

phosphate wrote: »

Let's wait and see, shall we?

So then no, you can't point to examples of either and thus have no evidence for your claim and are only assuming it's true because it is convenient for your theory.

phosphate wrote: »

Obviously you don't believe Hillary Clinton should be looking to invest US tax dollars on US soil...funny that.

I would have thought the top priority of US politicians was to fix the economic problems in their country first before tending to others...lol

I like you, King Mob.

And back to making sweeping generalised and untrue judgements about what I believe.
Great, we were skating dangerously close to actual discussion for a second.

phosphate

King Mob wrote: »

That the US is using fund from this to bribe politicians to change their policies.

Yes, of course that's what the money is for..that's my assumption and I believe in it. You're entitled to believe what you want and I will respect that. Please respect or learn to appreciate my view.

So then no, you can't point to examples of either and thus have no evidence for your claim and are only assuming it's true because it is convenient for your theory.

No, not yet. I expect we'll hear about it in the future assuming some Egyptian power brokers accept the money, good enough? it'll have to be.

Again, this is my belief because I've studied US foreign policy in South America, Africa, Asia and middle east and ..my belief is entirely reasonable based on historical FACTS, not assumptions.

And back to making sweeping generalised and untrue judgements about what I believe.
Great, we were skating dangerously close to actual discussion for a second.

I genuinely believe we're having an intriguing debate on this important historical event and I am attempting to clarify for the benefit of myself just what exactly you believe because I feel your comments are quite ambiguous.

Look at from my perspective.

I'm an observer of the financial problems in the US and when I see the US government spending billions of dollars..tax payer dollars causing mayhem in middle eastern countries, I really don't buy the premise it's all for freedom and democracy.

The explanation just stinks and you along with others think i'm coming to some irrational conclusion about just what exactly the US government are trying to achieve.

If you really study and I mean spend hours and hours analysing the economic situation in the US currently, you would be baffled at why the US government would prioritise the economic interests of some arabs 10,000 miles away....really, what is the objective here?

45 million americans on food stamps, a country in the grip of a depression with high unemployment... where are the priorities of US politicians like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama? overseas, that's where.

So Excuse me for being cynical... :rolleyes:

King Mob

phosphate wrote: »

Yes, of course that's what the money is for..that's my assumption and I believe in it. You're entitled to believe what you want and I will respect that. Please respect or learn to appreciate my view.

No, not yet. I expect we'll hear about it in the future assuming some Egyptian power brokers accept the money, good enough? it'll have to be.

Again, this is my belief because I've studied US foreign policy in South America, Africa, Asia and middle east and ..my belief is entirely reasonable based on historical FACTS, not assumptions.

That's the thing, you're assuming something without evidence. That isn't research and it's not study.
Why should I respect or even take seriously something you can't support with evidence?

And why would I accept something for which you've no evidence for as a viable explanation for a massive hole in your theory?

phosphate wrote: »

I genuinely believe we're having an intriguing debate on this important historical event and I am attempting to clarify for the benefit of myself just what exactly you believe because I feel your comments are quite ambiguous.

Yea that would be great and all if you weren't making assumptions about what I believe and making arguments from there.

phosphate wrote: »

45 million americans on food stamps, a country in the grip of a depression with high unemployment... where are the priorities of US politicians like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama? overseas, that's where.

So Excuse me for being cynical... :rolleyes:

Because Hillary Clinton's job is dealing with foreign powers and America doesn't exist in a vacuum?
You don't have a cynical view, you have a biased, over-simplistic view.

phosphate

King Mob wrote: »

That's the thing, you're assuming something without evidence. That isn't research and it's not study.
Why should I respect or even take seriously something you can't support with evidence?

And why would I accept something for which you've no evidence for as a viable explanation for a massive hole in your theory?

OMFG....lol

This is a conspiracy theory forum and you are not devils advocate.

I honestly don't care if you accept my theory or not....ffs

Yea that would be great and all if you weren't making assumptions about what I believe and making arguments from there.

HAHAHA...

Because Hillary Clinton's job is dealing with foreign powers and America doesn't exist in a vacuum?
You don't have a cynical view, you have a biased, over-simplistic view.

YES...hmmm, I agree. *nods head*

I have tried my best to engage with you in an informed discussion but you clearly have a lot of reading to do.

King Mob

phosphate wrote: »

OMFG....lol

This is a conspiracy theory forum and you are not devils advocate.

I honestly don't care if you accept my theory or not....ffs

Oh, so total fiction is acceptable in a discussion of "an important historical event" as you put it?

The reason I don't accept your theory is because, as you've demonstrated, it's biased, based on wild assumptions and lacking in any evidence as well as having massive logical holes.

phosphate wrote: »

I have tried my best to engage with you in an informed discussion but you clearly have a lot of reading to do.

You really haven't. It's not a discussion if you "honestly don't care if you accept my theory or not". It's you rehearsing opinions you don't want to critically examine.
And given how you don't understand what Hillary Clinton's job is I wouldn't call your opinion "informed" either.

phosphate

We could be talking about ANYTHING right now and you would use the exact same silly arguments against me...if some stranger just looked at your posts without looking at the thread title, they wouldn't know what you were discussing...

Absolute waste of time..i'm serious.

Maybe someone else can entertain you.

I give up for today!

nullzero

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's not a peace-keeping mission.

My sincerest apologies, I'm sure you got the gist of what I meant, if not I hope I haven't caused you any offence which might affect things between us in the future.

nullzero

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

So they're going to ignite a conflict in the ME by imposing a no fly zone over Libya that is backed and was called for by the Arab League?
Also, its been said before, but if this was about oil, they would have supported Gadaffi, who was happily selling it to the west, in fact oil deals had only recently been signed with some of the major oil companies.

I merely stated that you could look at things in such a way if you believed in certain other supporting ideas.

I never stated that what I wrote was the truth or that I believe it.

Aka Ishur

phosphate wrote: »

..you're making assumptions here.

i lol'd

King Mob

phosphate wrote: »

We could be talking about ANYTHING right now and you would use the exact same silly arguments against me...if some stranger just looked at your posts without looking at the thread title, they wouldn't know what you were discussing...

Absolute waste of time..i'm serious.

Maybe someone else can entertain you.

I give up for today!

Cause as we all know asking for supporting evidence is a very silly argument.

Penn

Some posts from last night have been deleted. Apologies if this disrupts the flow of conversation.

Brown Bomber

Barrington wrote: »

Some posts from last night have been deleted. Apologies if this disrupts the flow of conversation.

Nice one.

Now this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056214518 is just dead links.

I went to time and effort to share that information and post those links.

Dave!

I lol'd

beagle001

The last thing Europe wants is a massive outflow of refugees to Europe,it's better to take him out and control the situation than letting it fester for months.
It's about protecting EU oil and EU border control,nothing else.
Didn't see the coalition running into Zimbabwe

uprising2

Dave! wrote: »

I lol'd

I just deleted my post coz it would have been a ban, for the first time in history I'm actually going to report a post and not get banned because of .... ...... ...... ... .. .. ... ... ... ..... .... .. ..... .. ...... ... ..... .... .. ..!;)

But Dave really, why do you bother?, maybe spend some time in the personal issues forum and come back when your feeling better.

Your post has no function other than to annoy people.

Overheal

beagle001 wrote: »

Didn't see the coalition running into Zimbabwe

I've seen this a lot today, asked the question a lot, and haven't got a lot of answers:

What's going on in Zimbabwe right now that is so heinous, and so time sensitive that it would require an armed intervention from a coalition no-fly zone?

phosphate

Overheal wrote:

I've seen this a lot today, asked the question a lot, and haven't got a lot of answers:

What's going on in Zimbabwe right now that is so heinous, and so time sensitive that it would require an armed intervention from a coalition no-fly zone?

I have to ask an american like yourself...
The US launched 110 Tomahawk missiles into Libya.

Each unit costs approx. $3.75 million

So, do you really believe the US administration cares so much about Libyan people, they would spend $375 million attacking Gaddafi?

I just want to know if you believe US government really care about Libyan people, that's all.

A simple Yes or No will suffice.

Penn

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Nice one.

Now this thread http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056214518 is just dead links.

I went to time and effort to share that information and post those links.

I appreciate that and I apologise. However, the posts about Purim which then led into the discussion about Israel were all off topic. The only connection it had was the date, which isn't enough to warrant nearly two pages of posts discussing Israel. This thread is about Libya.

If you still have an issue with this, PM me. Do not discuss moderator decisions on-thread

Overheal

phosphate wrote: »

I have to ask an american like yourself...

what makes you think im american?!











............j/k

The US launched 110 Tomahawk missiles into Libya.

Each unit costs approx. $3.75 million

So, do you really believe the US administration cares so much about Libyan people, they would spend $375 million attacking Gaddafi?

I just want to know if you believe US government really care about Libyan people, that's all.

A simple Yes or No will suffice.

Thats a bit higher than the cost I've seen flying around. The going rate I have read is $567,000 per missile. And it' was 124 launches the last time I checked. But I reckon the SecDef will have to disclose the net cost of the operation eventually so we'll know one way or the other.

And Yes. Not only as a feel-good measure by the Obama Administration but something that promotes the image of the US in the middle east, or tries to. It's not a war for oil. Ghadaffi was only a few weeks from crushing the revolt and moving on to commit his acts of genocide, house to house. He would have then gone on to restore oil exports without much delay or outside cost.


...still want my question about Zimbabwe answered by anyone.

Mahatma coat

well lets See, Today in Zimbabwe

Posted 22/3/11
China signs 700-million-dollar loan agreement with Zimbabwe
China urges Zimbabwe: respect Chinese firms' rights
Zim Facing Severe Food Shortages In Six Provinces
Zimbabwe lacks funds to transport food aid-minister
15 hospitalised as ZPF youths & police disrupt MDC-T rally
Zimbabweans demonstrate in London against violence – 21st March 2010
Zuma Appoints New Diplomat To Harare
MDC-N campaign prohibited
Zimbabweans call for an end to human rights violations
AG Tomana faces corruption probe
Chombo fires more councillors
Small MDC Faction Drops Out Of Speaker's Race
Villagers From anti-Sanctions Rally Battling For Life After Lorry Accident
NSSA Increases Pension Payouts
KP Chair Authorizes Resumption of Zimbabwe Exports – US, EU Object
Zim ambassador stranded in Tripoli
Parties Form Committees To Deal With Violence
MISA-Zimbabwe Alert: Editors removed from remand
Paul Siwela wife hunted down by secret police
Nationalization of the Zimbabwe Mining Sector: Another Blunder by the Mugabe Regime?
Sculptures revive age of glorious stonemasonry
Cricket-Zimbabwe to play test match against Pakistan
An invitation to the PM the Right Honourable Mr Morgan Tsvangirai
Batch 2 Posted 21/3/11
Soldiers deployed in Matabeleland
Zanu (PF) Youths Force Businesses To Close For Shamu Rally
We will take all foreign owned companies by force – Kasukuwere
Zim officials may arrest Energy Minister a second time
Arrests, torture return to Zim
Moonlighting now a way of life for Zimbabwean workers
Zim sanction busters
Illegal crossings from Zim into SA still at record highs
Zimbabwe's ZANU-PF Denounces Allied Military Intervention in Libya
Judges 'in danger for their talents' as dictatorship reigns
WC Cricket: Zimbabwe crush Kenya by 161 runs
Test return excites Zimbabwe coach
Zimbabwe Vigil Diary – 19th March 2011
Bill Watch Special of 20th March 2011 [Parliamentary Committee Meetings 21-24 March]
Posted 21/3/11
Blow for Tsvangirai as court stops rally
Mugabe’s nephew in Nkomo’ s disputed house
Mnangagwa likens Mugabe to biblical King Solomon
Zimbabwe’s lost generation: Child labour on the rise
Are the MDCs now in the gravy train?
Raw sewage poses pollution threat to Lake Mutirikwi
Zim chiefs want Gaddafi to rule Africa
Gweru council fires top official
Zuma acts on GNU crisis
Ex-Zipra, Zanla clash over remains
Row over fresh Mt Darwin human remains
Schools to get new textbooks
Ousted Speaker vows to fight in the courts
Mugabe like Smith: Chamisa
From the Editor's Desk: When is military intervention in a sovereign state justified?
SundayOpinion: Why the MDC’s star is waning
SundayComment: Police blatant bias a national disgrace
Posted 20/3/11
MDC-T Rally Banned, Supporters Beaten By Police
Zanu PF resorts to terror tactics
ZAPU, MDC demand Gukurahundi exhumations
Discovered 280 remains not victims of Rhodesian war: MLF
Coltart to re-start night school programme
Zim pushes for debt relief as IMF arrives
Cricket World Cup 2011: Zimbabwe's return to Test cricket put into
Is Mugabe fit for another term?
Citizens Ready to Risk Lives to Vote in 2011, Says Freedom House Poll
Mugabe's Police And Army Need To Watch Libya Unfolding
This is not MDC calling this is Zimbabwe, come in mass for the Anti- Violence Protests in London 21 March 2011.

OK have a read through that,

but check outthe top line

phosphate

Promote the image of US in Middle East? :eek:

You sir, illustrate what is wrong with America today.
This arrogant self-righteous attitude where you believe in your own mind, you're welcome in the middle east...

I suppose those 4000 images of trophy kills in Afghanistan will be excellent promotional material too. :rolleyes:

If it weren't for US using it's military to defend the heinous crimes of Israel against Palestinians, there would be no problems there to begin with.

This is ultimately where the source of all middle eastern problems come from yet many US citizens fail to realise this.

It's also the reason so many people around the world detest america in general.

The only way I see this coming to an end is when the US economy completely collapses due to the dollar losing it's reserve status and I honestly believe that would be best for everyone considering the destruction your country is reponsible for over the last 50-100 years.

You can't just keep going around the world, invading other peoples countries, bombing the **** out of them into submission and continue deluding yourselves you're not the problem.

Overheal

phosphate wrote: »

Promote the image of US in Middle East? :eek:

You sir, illustrate what is wrong with America today.
This arrogant self-righteous attitude where you believe in your own mind, you're welcome in the middle east...

I suppose those 4000 images of trophy kills in Afghanistan will be excellent promotional material too. :rolleyes:

If it weren't for US using it's military to defend the heinous crimes of Israel against Palestinians, there would be no problems there to begin with.

This is ultimately where the source of all middle eastern problems come from yet many US citizens fail to realise this.

It's also the reason so many people around the world detest america in general.

The only way I see this coming to an end is when the US economy completely collapses due to the dollar losing it's reserve status and I honestly believe that would be best for everyone considering the destruction your country is reponsible for over the last 50-100 years.

You can't just keep going around the world, invading other peoples countries, bombing the **** out of them into submission and continue deluding yourselves you're not the problem.

I've already listened to one person today through willful ignorance believe that I personally support XYZ for ABC reason. I don't need to suffer another. I'm just telling you what I think the deal is. Then you fly off the handle and assume I'm a a Pro-War Zionist or something and start spewing the same lines I've heard for a decade now about karma this and world police that. You don't know me, but thank you for trying.