The War On Libya Is A Mistake.

Nodin · 20-03-2011 3:40pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I have consulted a map Nodin and Iraq is beside Iran.

We're talking about Libya and the current UN resolution.

Nodin · 20-03-2011 3:54pm

Overheal wrote: »

418,500 Americans; 567,000 French; 450,700 British.

200 Irish.

You're Welcome.

He stated

Never ceases to amaze me how the same anti-America brigade will jump into their cars tomorrow not even wondering where that fuel at the pumps comes from. Typical.

As Skelliser says, the US can't win. The do nothing - they're guilty. They act - they're guilty.

They sacrificed millions of their own to liberate Europe.

They didn't and I pointed this out. Thus I question the relevance of dragging in the French, British and Irish, save as getting a dig of some sort in.

Secondly, your figures for the Irish are wrong. I presume you're going on free state forces as opposed to people from the free state. The folloing doesn't figure in Irish born who fought for the US, Australia and Canada.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8095110.stm

Overheal · 20-03-2011 4:00pm

Nodin wrote: »

He stated

They didn't and I pointed this out. Thus I question the relevance of dragging in the French, British and Irish, save as getting a dig of some sort in.

Secondly, your figures for the Irish are wrong. I presume you're going on free state forces as opposed to people from the free state. The folloing doesn't figure in Irish born who fought for the US, Australia and Canada.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8095110.stm

I'm going on Wikipedia data, which is apparently inaccurate, but theres the issue that those deaths are probably reflected in other figures in the table, if they were fighting for other forces.

Nodin · 20-03-2011 4:08pm

Overheal wrote: »

I'm going on Wikipedia data, which is apparently inaccurate, but theres the issue that those deaths are probably reflected in other figures in the table, if they were fighting for other forces.

It's accurate (the figure of 200), in so much as it reflects the number who died in service of the free state etc, but inaccurate as regards Irish born people, if you get me.

SafeSurfer · 20-03-2011 4:53pm

Nodin wrote: »

We're talking about Libya and the current UN resolution.

If you followed the thread you would realise my post was referring to the US being nicely placed in Iraq to threaten Iran. See post 95.

Nodin · 20-03-2011 5:29pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you followed the thread you would realise my post was referring to the US being nicely placed in Iraq to threaten Iran. See post 95.

Fair enough.

Steyr · 20-03-2011 6:43pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The resolution seeks to enforce a no fly zone and the French attack tanks with no anti aircraft capability, go figure.

That tank can be used to level a building or take out a low flying helicopter-you go figure.

yammycat · 20-03-2011 6:53pm

Gadaffi duck will happily sit there in tripoli for years to come, he's not going anywhere unless they invade by land

Overheal · 20-03-2011 6:55pm

yammycat wrote: »

Gadaffi duck will happily sit there in tripoli for years to come, he's not going anywhere unless they invade by land

That remains to be seen. As it has been the only thing that has stopped him from being overthrown by his own people is armor - Tanks and Airplanes which can operate against the rebels virtually unopposed. Now though that coalition forces are eliminating the armor, the rebel forces stand a much greater chance.

yammycat · 20-03-2011 7:01pm

Overheal wrote: »

That remains to be seen. As it has been the only thing that has stopped him from being overthrown by his own people is armor - Tanks and Airplanes which can operate against the rebels virtually unopposed. Now though that coalition forces are eliminating the armor, the rebel forces stand a much greater chance.

Well the supposed idea is to save civilian lives, levelling the playing field with the intent to give the opposition a chance at military victory will lead to a longer and bloodier conflict possibly, unless gadaffi's friends decide there's no hope.

Roll in with an armored brigade and it would be over in a few hours.

Freddie59 · 20-03-2011 7:06pm

Nodin wrote: »

I'm sure thats a consolation to the people in Latin America and across the world who've suffered from US backed coups and dictatorships.

I'd take them ahead of Chavez, Castro, OBL & Co. Anytime.

Overheal · 20-03-2011 7:08pm

yammycat wrote: »

Well the supposed idea is to save civilian lives, levelling the playing field with the intent to give the opposition a chance at military victory will lead to a longer and bloodier conflict possibly, unless gadaffi's friends decide there's no hope.

Roll in with an armored brigade and it would be over in a few hours.

thats the argument some fmr military analysts are suggesting. And that we shouldnt have said we wouldnt deploy ground forces. If Ghadaffi thought we would, he might have folded sooner.

I'm sure that introduces a whole host of logistical and strategic issues though. And again, we don't want to get caught trying to stabilize yet another country - the Libyans more or less will probably have to do this on their own. Egypt was lucky enough to have an army with integrity that could sustain itself through its reform.

Freddie59 · 20-03-2011 7:09pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Total US losses in WW2 were 418,500 in both theatres of war, including civilians. Not the "millions" to liberate Europe you speak of.

It's disappointing if not surprising that anyone questioning the rush to military intervention is immediately branded as anti-American.

Most usually are. Apologies for the wrong figures, but to give up half a million of your countrymen to free countries on the other side of the world speaks volumes for the USA. Yes, they're not perfect. But them or the alternative? Be careful what you wish for.

Mrmoe · 20-03-2011 7:12pm

All the need to do is buy the rebels some time so that they can form a more cohesive unit. It might take a while but gadaffis days are numbered. I don't think a land based incursion by NATO forces would be necessary, arming the rebels might be.

Overheal · 20-03-2011 7:14pm

Mrmoe wrote: »

All the need to do is buy the rebels some time so that they can form a more cohesive unit. It might take a while but gadaffis days are numbered. I don't think a land based incursion by NATO forces would be necessary, arming the rebels might be.

And then they'll form their own brutal dictatorship and then the coalition will be blamed for supplying them with weapons. It's been working like this for decades.

Nodin · 20-03-2011 7:16pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

I'd take them ahead of Chavez, Castro, OBL & Co. Anytime.

A non sequitur.

previous user · 20-03-2011 7:19pm

\\.Boom!.//

investment · 20-03-2011 7:20pm

I hope Russia get involved any teach America and the French a lesson

Russia and China, Against US, UK and the French

Russia for the win

Nodin · 20-03-2011 7:22pm

investment wrote: »

I hope Russia get involved any teach America and the French a lesson

Russia and China, Against US, UK and the French

Russia for the win

If Russia or china gave a crap, they would have vetoed the resolution.

Mrmoe · 20-03-2011 7:31pm

Overheal wrote: »

And then they'll form their own brutal dictatorship and then the coalition will be blamed for supplying them with weapons. It's been working like this for decades.

I think they have learned a few lessons from the past. They can use the french as a proxy in this case. They should have a lot more North African contacts than the Americans. The US needs to keep it's nose clean for a while.

HavingCrack · 20-03-2011 8:22pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

I'd take them ahead of Chavez, Castro, OBL & Co. Anytime.

Putting Castro and Chavez in the same bracket as Osama Bin Laden is ridiculous. Life in Venezuala and Cuba isn't a picnic by any means but they have overseen a massive amount of equality enjected into their countries and in Chavez's case was democratically elected.

Overheal · 20-03-2011 8:40pm

HavingCrack wrote: »

Putting Castro and Chavez in the same bracket as Osama Bin Laden is ridiculous. Life in Venezuala and Cuba isn't a picnic by any means but they have overseen a massive amount of equality enjected into their countries and in Chavez's case was democratically elected.

Isn't his point though that they aren't US backed dictators/leaders and they still manage to **** **** up?

Nodin · 20-03-2011 8:44pm

Overheal wrote: »

Isn't his point though that they aren't US backed dictators/leaders and they still manage to **** **** up?

I think the only point he had was to try and post the opposite to whatever he thought I was saying....

HavingCrack · 20-03-2011 8:45pm

Overheal wrote: »

Isn't his point though that they aren't US backed dictators/leaders and they still manage to **** **** up?

Oh I'm not even sure anymore :pac:

Overheal · 20-03-2011 8:50pm

Nodin wrote: »

I think the only point he had was to try and post the opposite to whatever he thought I was saying....

HavingCrack wrote: »

Oh I'm not even sure anymore :pac:

Nodin wins

galwayrush · 20-03-2011 8:59pm

investment wrote: »

I hope Russia get involved any teach America and the French a lesson

Russia and China, Against US, UK and the French

Russia for the win

Yeah, back Russia, it might help all the Irish who emigrated there , not to mention all the trade we do with Russia and China unlike the almost alien like foreigners from US, UK and France.

Metallitroll · 20-03-2011 11:39pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2qKCWYbYXs

Athlone_Bhoy · 21-03-2011 12:02am

galwayrush wrote: »

Yeah, back Russia, it might help all the Irish who emigrated there , not to mention all the trade we do with Russia and China unlike the almost alien like foreigners from US, UK and France.

So we should back the USA because Irish went there?

Jimmy Garlic · 25-03-2011 10:12am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYE7iBmjEMg

Manic Moran · 25-03-2011 5:31pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

I'm just glad this all didn't happen when George W was in charge, otherwise Liberia would have been bombed to f**k by now...

Just for the sake of historical accuracy, GWB did send the Marines to Liberia during the Second Liberian Civil War, but it didn't result in much bombing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Task_Force_Liberia

Having a US Navy battlegroup with a couple thousand Marines parked off your beachfront property tends to attract your attention.

On August 14 2003, rebels lifted their siege of Monrovia and 200 American troops landed to support a West African peace force. Thousands of people danced and sang as American Marines and ECOMIL, the Nigerian-led West African troops, took over the port and bridges which had split the capital into government and rebel-held zones

They situation eventually came under UN control, resulting in UNMIL, which the Irish military participated in. As a result of his opposition of President Taylor, followed by sending the Marines in, GWB is rather popular in Liberia these days.

NTM

The War On Libya Is A Mistake.

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