coillte leases are up for tender

meathshooter1

coillte leases are out for the 2011/12 season heres the link. http://www.coillteoutdoors.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Recreation_Licences/March_2011_Catalogue_of_available_deer_hunting_licences.pdf

marlin vs

Good man meathshooter1, thank's.

Kieron854

how do you know how much to tender in any area,im not interested this year but was just wondering how much a let with say 10 deer or so would cost

Tiercel Dave

Not into shooting deer. Am in the W1 District and the species mentioned is Fallow. Now all the deer around here are Sika so how does that work out?

custom 7mm08

be very wary of the cull figures they have a cull figure on a wood in west cork and i know for a fact all that is on it is a herd of about 70 or so goats. so some of the woods have crazy sized cull figures on them

underthetumb

custom 7mm08 wrote: »

be very wary of the cull figures they have a cull figure on a wood in west cork and i know for a fact all that is on it is a herd of about 70 or so goats. so some of the woods have crazy sized cull figures on them

this is true, a forest down my way came up on last years tender, and there is no deer on it, or in the surrounding areas

syconerd

so how much do you offer per deer per lience come on guys someone must be able to tell us, how else are we going to find out or is this another closed shop no one wants to tell us about

243Xpress

Back in the good times lettings with 20deer to be shot on them were making 20k.I know of a letting last year with 10 deer to be shot out of it made 6500.I reckon they will be a bit cheaper this time around.Put in a bid and see how you get on.Nothing ventured,nothing gained.But make sure you walk the the wood and do your research before you put any bid in.

clivej

syconerd wrote: »

so how much do you offer per deer per lience come on guys someone must be able to tell us, how else are we going to find out or is this another closed shop no one wants to tell us about

As far as I can see it's all pot luck.

You decide what the Lett is worth and put in a bid. And Coillte don't always give it to the highest bidder.

So it's up to you to find out how many deer are on the Lett and if it's even worth any bid. Could be worth a phone call to the Letts local forest manager to get some info.

243Xpress

They dont always give it to the highest bidder only 99.9percent of the time.

underthetumb

yeh as the lads say, walk it, and put in a bid for what you feel its worth,
it is pot luck. if you have permissions around the forest it is meantto help

pugw

243Xpress wrote: »

Back in the good times lettings with 20deer to be shot on them were making 20k.I know of a letting last year with 10 deer to be shot out of it made 6500.I reckon they will be a bit cheaper this time around.Put in a bid and see how you get on.Nothing ventured,nothing gained.But make sure you walk the the wood and do your research before you put any bid in.

:eek: 1k a carcass???? FFS thats serious €'s to be forking out I would nearly prefer to offer it to a farmer/land owner than to coilltte

Deerspotter

Nothing else counts except the money you bid and that you have done the HCAP.
Permissions in the area are worth nothing.
Having the let for the last 30 years is worth nothing.

If you are outbid you are a loser. End of the story.

243Xpress

pugw wrote: »

:eek: 1k a carcass???? FFS thats serious €'s to be forking out I would nearly prefer to offer it to a farmer/land owner than to coilltte

Its not 1k a carcass.Thats only a guide.They dont care if you shoot 20 or 50 as long as you pay the money.I agree with you no deer are worth that.

pugw

Sorry my bad I thought it was like a bag limit system or something!

243Xpress

pugw wrote: »

Sorry my bad I thought it was like a bag limit system or something!

Once apon a time they used to give tags.If there were 10 deer to be shot out of a wood,they would give u 10 tags.Not any more.

tfox

As a rule of thumb when times were good, a let in wicklow ( premium let country ) a tender was generally bid at a rate of €500 per animal in the cull !!

A let I'm involved in was €5,000 for 10 animals, but nearly 100 are shot every year, had it for 10 years at that price but had to bid €15,000 last year to keep it when it came round for tender again :eek::eek:

Deerspotter

tfox wrote: »

As a rule of thumb when times were good, a let in wicklow ( premium let country ) a tender was generally bid at a rate of €500 per animal in the cull !!

A let I'm involved in was €5,000 for 10 animals, but nearly 100 are shot every year, had it for 10 years at that price but had to bid €15,000 last year to keep it when it came round for tender again :eek::eek:

How do you know what you had to bid at, to keep it? As far as I know, you don' get a second crack it.

tfox

Deerspotter wrote: »

How do you know what you had to bid at, to keep it? As far as I know, you don' get a second crack it.

One of our group does a lot of problem deer work for Coilte and has a good few friends in the know and was told we needed to seriously up our bid to keep it

In fairness we got it for the second 5yr lease at the same price without having to retender as we had a lot of grief from a local who had it before and made up all sorts of false accusations to try and get us thrown out !! :mad:

welsummer

Also, if all the bids are not high enough then they just dont lease the wood.

arrowloopboy

tfox wrote: »

As a rule of thumb when times were good, a let in wicklow ( premium let country ) a tender was generally bid at a rate of €500 per animal in the cull !!

A let I'm involved in was €5,000 for 10 animals, but nearly 100 are shot every year, had it for 10 years at that price but had to bid €15,000 last year to keep it when it came round for tender again :eek::eek:

15k,thats the dearist wood in Wickla so,are you a "millionaire" ?

crackcrack30

I know one of these leases (have rites beside it) and its empty.
twoud be cheaper to fly somewhere and pay as u go...

They should pay us.........imo

cc30.

tfox

arrowloopboy wrote: »

15k,thats the dearist wood in Wickla so,are you a "millionaire" ?

Ha yeah I wish !! No I dont have to pay a full gun as I dont go down that often, give them a substantoinal donation and help out a lot during the summer with making and moving hugh seats, clearing drag routes, making deer lawns etc.

Deerspotter

tfox wrote: »

One of our group does a lot of problem deer work for Coilte and has a good few friends in the know and was told we needed to seriously up our bid to keep it

In fairness we got it for the second 5yr lease at the same price without having to retender as we had a lot of grief from a local who had it before and made up all sorts of false accusations to try and get us thrown out !! :mad:

That is great for you guys but fairly crap for everyone else. What about the people that blindly bid €15k hoping to get some shooting – they didn’t get a second crack at it. Your comments seem to go against everything the tender system works to achieve and disgust me.

Obviously it is to your advantage and well done for having ‘guys in the know’, this is not a personal attack. It is disgusting that some people get treated differently from the rest in a tender COMPETITION. I know of guys that have lost lets after many years and were given no further information and now have NO idea how much to bid, but it seems it makes NO difference as your cozy circle get the inside track and can bid on what they want and know they will get a second stab at it. Oh Ireland -

cavan shooter

I will probably get into trouble for this...but here goes anyway.

Unless you are shooting commercially for the meat there is no way in Gods creation that money justifies have 2-5 deer over the season and thats a lot of meat for personal consumption.

A good friend of mine shot 5 deer during the season on farmers land where he got permission for the cost of a few bottles of scotch. By going in on mad prices you are fueling the fire. No spot of land for culling deer should be worth more than €1000 say €200 per deer.

We used to get a local wood from coilte years and years back for shooting, I am talking 90's early 00's for £35 per annum.

Putting it into perspective you would get a nice stalking holiday in Scotland and be guaranteed deer.

tfox

Deerspotter wrote: »

That is great for you guys but fairly crap for everyone else. What about the people that blindly bid €15k hoping to get some shooting – they didn’t get a second crack at it. Your comments seem to go against everything the tender system works to achieve and disgust me.

Obviously it is to your advantage and well done for having ‘guys in the know’, this is not a personal attack. It is disgusting that some people get treated differently from the rest in a tender COMPETITION. I know of guys that have lost lets after many years and were given no further information and now have NO idea how much to bid, but it seems it makes NO difference as your cozy circle get the inside track and can bid on what they want and know they will get a second stab at it. Oh Ireland -

Not sure if you've taken me up wrong on what I said but I shall try to clarify it.

We had the original 5yr lease 11 years ago for €5k, owing to no end of hassle we got from our disgruntled neighbour Coilte gave us another 5 year lease at the same price when the first lease expired, all above board and nothing underhand.

Last year when that lease was up we were told that we would seriously need to up our tender to keep, which surprised us as we imagined with the current climate they would be coming down in price !! But it is one of the premier lets in wicklow and was one of only 2 like it up for tender that year. We did a bit of research, asked around as to what others were paying and we came to conclusion of a bid of €15k.

We were NOT guaranteed our tender, we were NOT told that if we bid x amount we would keep it, we were just advised that we needed to up our tender !! I'm sure if someone else bid €16k they would have got it, and maybe if we bid €10k we might have got it at that price !! thats they joy of a sealed bid !!

GixxerThou

Deerspotter wrote: »

Nothing else counts except the money you bid and that you have done the HCAP.
Permissions in the area are worth nothing.
Having the let for the last 30 years is worth nothing.

If you are outbid you are a loser. End of the story.

This is not correct, its run on a points system.. Permissions in the area are worth a lot, and being the previous let holder is also worth a lot.

Deerspotter

Thans TFOX, that clears it up. I totally missunderstood you.
Gixer - I have yet to see proof of that and can name countless examples of me being right.

GixxerThou

Deerspotter wrote: »

Thans TFOX, that clears it up. I totally missunderstood you.
Gixer - I have yet to see proof of that and can name countless examples of me being right.

So highest bidder wins regardless??

Deerspotter

GixxerThou wrote: »

So highest bidder wins regardless??

Is all the experience I have heard of.

tfox

Deerspotter wrote: »

Thans TFOX, that clears it up. I totally missunderstood you.

glad to hear it

GixxerThou

Deerspotter wrote: »

Is all the experience I have heard of.

But if it's a closed tender then how can you be sure? Excuse my ignorance, am only new to this tendering craic, if your right it's a trickier business than I thought

Deerspotter

Gixxer - you have a good point. How could I know?
I am just concluding that, if a guy with permissions in the area and has held the let for 20 years, has a good relationship with the locals and the forest care-takers ect. loses his let, it must be because he has been outbid.

GixxerThou

Deerspotter wrote: »

Gixxer - you have a good point. How could I know?
I am just concluding that, if a guy with permissions in the area and has held the let for 20 years, has a good relationship with the locals and the forest care-takers ect. loses his let, it must be because he has been outbid.

That's true but for a new bidder to take the let they have to bid considerably higher than the original holder to get it. I've heard lads saying you would need to bid 30% higher to "cancel" the points of the holder. That's where it gets tricky tho, your only guessing how much to bid.

Deerspotter

So lads, are the results in yet? How did you all get on?
What is the conclusion, are the prices gone up or down?

steyrprohunter

Well deerspotter the good news is that I got the woods Ive after for years! Came at a price though and by all acounts people have shelled out top euros for their leaes this year. I know one syndicate who put €25,000 on a lease and got it. Dont know how alot of these groups plan on making it back from leases but maybe if they have that kind of cash they dont need to! Seems alot of people are going for coillte woods as private shooting is getting hard to come by. Roll on Sept:D

arrowloopboy

steyrprohunter wrote: »

Well deerspotter the good news is that I got the woods Ive after for years! Came at a price though and by all acounts people have shelled out top euros for their leaes this year. I know one syndicate who put €25,000 on a lease and got it. Dont know how alot of these groups plan on making it back from leases but maybe if they have that kind of cash they dont need to! Seems alot of people are going for coillte woods as private shooting is getting hard to come by. Roll on Sept:D

25k..........were they millionaires;) ?,if not i'd say someone was telling you porkies.

steyrprohunter

No porkies Arrowloopboy!!! I know one guy who is a vet(tested our cows last week!) and hes on it. Theres 15 guys in a syndicate from wicklow and theres no shortage of money with them. Decent lease too.

arrowloopboy

steyrprohunter wrote: »

No porkies Arrowloopboy!!! I know one guy who is a vet(tested our cows last week!) and hes on it. Theres 15 guys in a syndicate from wicklow and theres no shortage of money with them. Decent lease too.[/QUOTE

Dearist wood in wicklow so,where is it "Roughly"

steyrprohunter

not a million miles from glenmalure!! theres another wood in the area that is known as the millionaires club lease. They had a guy in court a few years ago over trespassing and the local paper revealed their tender as it was eveidence in court that they had the lease that year- €20.000 grand plus the vat

fitzy700

just goes to show you the average joe gets f**ked if he has no money
25k:eek: for a lease how can ordinary people keep up with that just like everything in this country it's gone way out of control:rolleyes:

arrowloopboy

fitzy700 wrote: »

just goes to show you the average joe gets f**ked if he has no money
25k:eek: for a lease how can ordinary people keep up with that just like everything in this country it's gone way out of control:rolleyes:

"IF" and its a massive if in my opinion,they paid 25k between 15 guns its roughly E1,700 a man ,a bit steep in my opinion for a gun on a wood that would need a mini bus to haul guys into it,but E1,700 isn't undoable for most normal guys,if you drank or smoked youd spend that twice or 3 times over the year.
On a side note ,if the average joe has no money,he should get off his ass ,quit complaining,and go get some,end off:rolleyes:.
Alternatively theirs free rabbit shooting nearly every where.

arrowloopboy

steyrprohunter wrote: »

not a million miles from glenmalure!! theres another wood in the area that is known as the millionaires club lease. They had a guy in court a few years ago over trespassing and the local paper revealed their tender as it was eveidence in court that they had the lease that year- €20.000 grand plus the vat

Glenmalure,good luck with minding that.

The so called millionaires is the wood i alluded to in my original post,
I reckon someone is making a nice few bob on that wood if the 15 guns are paying E1,700 a man,but theirs no harm in that ,capitalism rocks:D:D:D.

Tackleberrywho

arrowloopboy wrote: »

"IF" and its a massive if in my opinion,they paid 25k between 15 guns its roughly E1,700 a man ,a bit steep in my opinion for a gun on a wood that would need a mini bus to haul guys into it,but E1,700 isn't undoable for most normal guys,if you drank or smoked youd spend that twice or 3 times over the year.
On a side note ,if the average joe has no money,he should get off his ass ,quit complaining,and go get some,end off:rolleyes:.
Alternatively theirs free rabbit shooting nearly every where.

Free deer shooting too if you get off your ass and look :rolleyes:,
I was offered money by a farmer for sorting out his deer problem
Being a decent fella I refused and said " Thanks was good enough for me; and the odd dinner on a Cold winters evening after a stalk".

The same day I was offered another 250 acres to shoot on his next door neighbours farm.
So no need to be slaggin guys off about not wanting to pay extorsionate rates to "hopefully" shoot a couple of deer

If you want to spend €1700 that's well for you that can afford that.
The majority of recession Ireland can't

GixxerThou

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Glenmalure,good luck with minding that.

The so called millionaires is the wood i alluded to in my original post,
I reckon someone is making a nice few bob on that wood if the 15 guns are paying E1,700 a man,but theirs no harm in that ,capitalism rocks:D:D:D.

No wood in Glenmalure made that kinda money... Might have been bid on it but wasnt taken. Some woods made big bucks alright, a lot more than they were worth, some in Ballinabarney for example. Lads are gonna be dissappointed!

arrowloopboy

GixxerThou wrote: »

No wood in Glenmalure made that kinda money... Might have been bid on it but wasnt taken. Some woods made big bucks alright, a lot more than they were worth, some in Ballinabarney for example. Lads are gonna be dissappointed!

I Know.

arrowloopboy

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Free deer shooting too if you get off your ass and look :rolleyes:,
I was offered money by a farmer for sorting out his deer problem
Being a decent fella I refused and said " Thanks was good enough for me; and the odd dinner on a Cold winters evening after a stalk".

The same day I was offered another 250 acres to shoot on his next door neighbours farm.
So no need to be slaggin guys off about not wanting to pay extorsionate rates to "hopefully" shoot a couple of deer

If you want to spend €1700 that's well for you that can afford that.
The majority of recession Ireland can't

Wasn't slagging anyone off t,just pointing out the laws of economics to a guy crying into his sturabout.

And don't be silly,i don't pay for my own shooting,as i said ,capatilism rocks:eek::eek::eek:.

fitzy700

arrowloopboy wrote: »

"IF" and its a massive if in my opinion,they paid 25k between 15 guns its roughly E1,700 a man ,a bit steep in my opinion for a gun on a wood that would need a mini bus to haul guys into it,but E1,700 isn't undoable for most normal guys,if you drank or smoked youd spend that twice or 3 times over the year.
On a side note ,if the average joe has no money,he should get off his ass ,quit complaining,and go get some,end off:rolleyes:.
Alternatively theirs free rabbit shooting nearly every where.

to be honest i dont know weather your being ignorant or you just dont understand what im saying to start in my own case i did get off my ass
and get my own places to shoot this year for (FREE) or (maybe a bottle of whiskey at christmas) i was'nt talking about myself i was talking about the average hunter that would like to go stalking and cant over coillte's system of bidding and people giving ridiculous amount's of money freezing your (average joe) out so im not crying into any turnabout im just pionting out a fact , and like tack said most people have'nt that kind of money to be handing out, you seem to have missed the piont!!!:rolleyes:

steyrprohunter

Gixxerthou- you seem to know alot about who paid what for leases this year!! Do you work for Coillte or some other government department? Its a closed bidding system so how would you know what the woods in Ballinabarney made this year???? I doubt they'd be disappointed though, I brought my kids hiking through those woods last weekend and we seen lots of good stags. And I shoot a hill not too fat from those lettings and theres lots of deer in the area.

arrowloopboy

steyrprohunter wrote: »

Gixxerthou- you seem to know alot about who paid what for leases this year!! Do you work for Coillte or some other government department? Its a closed bidding system so how would you know what the woods in Ballinabarney made this year???? I doubt they'd be disappointed though, I brought my kids hiking through those woods last weekend and we seen lots of good stags. And I shoot a hill not too fat from those lettings and theres lots of deer in the area.

He probably dosn't know,but if he knew what it was making and what others bid on it and were unsuccessful,and who had what points,you could know the minimum it made.

Deerspotter

I think he knows more than he lets on, which is the most disconcerting aspect of the bidding system.