Looking for some advice with supplements.

Sonics2k

Hey there folks!

First of all I'll give a bit of a background on myself.
Since my late teens I've usually been in top condition, but a few years ago (about 21) I was diagnosed with a blood disorder that basically wasted my muscle tone down to nothing, combined with working a desk job and having kids to raise, I became a lanky sod, with a bit of belly fat.

In the last 7 months, I've been cleared of the blood disorder and so started getting back into shape, so frequent jogging, swimming, weights at home, sit-ups/squats etc and I'm now back in great condition (even have my 6 pack back).

But now on topic, despite doing a lot of weights (about 15kg per dumbbell) every 2 days, and following a pretty strict regime, my arms just do not seem to gain size.
When my arms are straight out, it looks like a thin useless thing without muscle, but when I do flex they become much more obvious around the bicep.

Now, I've been looking up supplements, such as Creatine and Whey and would like to know which is better, more likely to help me physically bulk up and where it's available.

I've checked out H&B of course, but I've seen very mixed reviews here on whether they should be bought.

So whats the best way to go to build up larger arms, and try to get rid of these lean ones I have.
edit: forgot to add stats.
Gender: Male
Height: 188cm
Weight: 77 kg

Doug Cartel

Sort out your routine and diet first. Forget about supplements for now.

Sonics2k

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Sort out your routine and diet first. Forget about supplements for now.

They've both been sorted out quite a few months ago.

Working with 5 meals per day, swimming 4 times a week, jogging 3 nights a week, stretching/cardio daily and weight lifting every Sun/Tue/Thurs and every second saturday.

I know the basics behind exercise and getting fit, what I really need now is the best advice to on which supplement to use to help me bulk up my biceps especially, but also the rest of my body.

Doug Cartel

Sonics2k wrote: »

Working with 5 meals per day, swimming 4 times a week, jogging 3 nights a week, stretching/cardio daily

These activities are not going to bulk up your biceps.

and weight lifting every Sun/Tue/Thurs and every second saturday.

What weight lifting do you do? You may have a routine, but is it one that is suitable for your goals?

I know the basics behind exercise and getting fit, what I really need now is the best advice to on which supplement to use to help me bulk up my biceps especially, but also the rest of my body.

Have you read the supplements thread?

Sonics2k

Doug Cartel wrote: »

These activities are not going to bulk up your biceps.

Yup I know that, they are just the basics I've used to get back into shape before starting weightlifting.

Doug Cartel wrote: »

What weight lifting do you do? You may have a routine, but is it one that is suitable for your goals?

With Barbells at 10kg each:
Bicep Curls x 12 (3 sets)
Lateral Rise x 12 (3 sets)
Hammer Curls x 12 (3 sets)
Incline Chest fly x 12 (3 sets)

With Dumbell at 25kg:
Upright Row x 12 (3 sets)
Bicep Curls x 12 (3 sets)
Wide Squats x12 (3 sets)
Bench Press

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Have you read the supplements thread?

I have had a read through it a few times over the last few weeks, and again I'm just seeing lots of advice, but few answers.

Sorry for the hassle in this thread, I just want to ensure I choose the correct supplement for me.

pachey100

I would recommend anything from trec nutrition I have heard good things about magnum 8000 and hard mass . Good prices and good quality I use there creatine and whey isolate never had a complaint. As for your arms your triceps make up the bulk of your arms and you don't seem to be working them in that routine you posted. I would go for two exercise each for your triceps and biceps and maybe a reverse ez curl for your forearms and your brachialis which will give your arms some more bulk. I personally dont really work my arms specifically they always get a good workout just from things like pull ups,dips and deadlifts.

Morpheus77

Sonics2k wrote: »

Hey there folks!

First of all I'll give a bit of a background on myself.
Since my late teens I've usually been in top condition, but a few years ago (about 21) I was diagnosed with a blood disorder that basically wasted my muscle tone down to nothing, combined with working a desk job and having kids to raise, I became a lanky sod, with a bit of belly fat.

In the last 7 months, I've been cleared of the blood disorder and so started getting back into shape, so frequent jogging, swimming, weights at home, sit-ups/squats etc and I'm now back in great condition (even have my 6 pack back).

But now on topic, despite doing a lot of weights (about 15kg per dumbbell) every 2 days, and following a pretty strict regime, my arms just do not seem to gain size.
When my arms are straight out, it looks like a thin useless thing without muscle, but when I do flex they become much more obvious around the bicep.

Now, I've been looking up supplements, such as Creatine and Whey and would like to know which is better, more likely to help me physically bulk up and where it's available.

I've checked out H&B of course, but I've seen very mixed reviews here on whether they should be bought.

So whats the best way to go to build up larger arms, and try to get rid of these lean ones I have.
edit: forgot to add stats.
Gender: Male
Height: 188cm
Weight: 77 kg

So you want to increase only biceps size? What about rest parts of muscles??
Its not really natural to do one part of body, you should do all of them.
If you want put more pressure for biceps you can do for example:
Moday - chest (really hard) plus biceps (light)
Tuesday - shoulders and triceps
Wednesday - off
Thursday - back and legs
Friday - chest(light) biceps (hard)

If about supplemets - because you had blood problems before ask your doctor that can you take any of these :

Creatine
BCAA
L-Glutamine
Carbo
Proteins

Your body needs around 3200 kcalories per day ( if you do 1 hour workout everyday) to keep weight if you want to bulk up you need around 10-20% calories more.

You are doing lots of cardio -swimming, running they are not good for bulking up muscles so you need cover muscles during that type of workout- before cardio and gym around 5 grams of BCAA after 5 grams of BCAA and 10 L-Glutamine during you can sip some carbo drinks to keep Glycogene level in muslces,
Creatine - choose one of the mix form of creatine (for exaple Hyperfusion from Hi-Tec Nutrition 10 different form of creatine) or Tri Creatine Malate - they don't make water retention in muscles like Creatine Monohydrate
Take around 5 g on non workout day and 10g on workout days (5 in the morning 20 minutes before first meal and second portion after wokout)
I think you need around 2 g of protein per 1kg of your body mass per day co around 150g of protein - if you can get it from diet its ok if not buy some protein matrix.
Most important thing is proper meal after gym workout when you need arond 1-1.5 g of carbs and 0.5 g of protein per 1kg of your body mass to get good recovey, stop catabolism and start anabolism of muscles then you can take mass gainer it should be LEAN MASS GAINER for example MHP Up Your Mass or Hi-Tec Super Mass .
If you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask.

Doug Cartel

If you want bigger arms, you'll have to get bigger overall.

Get hold of an existing tried and tested weight lifting routine, and not one you've made up yourself. To put on weight you'll need to eat more, and get a good balance of protein, carbs, and the right kinds of fats. Try and get these form real food as much as possible, and only use the supplements as an add-on - eg if you're not going to be able to eat for a long time after training, bring a protein/carb shake.

Aside form the protein/carbs, creatine may be of some use to you, as it gives a bit of extra energy for performing strength exercises. It's not magic though. It also causes some water retention in the muscles, which some people think is good. Actual effects seem to vary form person to person.

Don't bother wasting your money on BCAA, l-glutamine or any of the 101 other things people will try and sell you. Also remember that whey protein is whey protein, all you should care about is the concentration and price, don't get bamboozeled by any of the other secret-breakthrough-technology type stuff they put on the packs. Weight gainer/carbs are just sugars or starches, like dextrose and maltodextrin, and should be cheap.

Don't over think things. Eat more, lift heavy.

c.n.s

I'd recommend good diet, supplements and especially heavy weights. I've been doing many mistakes till I spoke to a guy in Body Island shop (it's beside The Milk Market in Limerick). He told me what to eat, what weight gainers to use and how to not exercise
Try to do basics like dead lift, squats - use free weights and you'll see results soon.
I gain 14kg in 5 months and I am happy

john_cappa

Morpheus77 wrote: »

Moday - chest (really hard) plus biceps (light)
Tuesday - shoulders and triceps
Wednesday - off
Thursday - back and legs
Friday - chest(light) biceps (hard)

I dont like that split at all

Chest and biceps twice.
Massive muscle groups like legs and back on the same day?
Shoulders and triceps the day after your hard chest day? No chance of your triceps/delts being at 100%
Biceps hard the day after training your back?

etc etc

I would suggest something similar to the following

Monday Upper legs/shoulders
Tuesday Back/bicep
Wednesday-off
Thursday Chest/tricep
Friday lower legs/bicep

xgtdec

Sonics2k wrote: »

With Dumbell at 25kg:
Upright Row x 12 (3 sets)
Bicep Curls x 12 (3 sets)
Wide Squats x12 (3 sets)
Bench Press

Silly question but if you curling a 25Kg dumbell 36 times on each arm, i going to presume ya have decent arms anyway?

And if its biceps your after should it not be like a 40Kg dumbell x6x4x2 or along them lines

i'm just curious cause 25Kg dumbells curls x 36 tells me ya got serious arms anyway...no??

Morpheus77

Hi John
It is really tough first one but I had good results on it especially for chest and biceps.
Similar to your system I have done before as well but when I did back I couldn't do good biceps the same with chest and triceps.
Now I'm doing since 3 weeks (and its pretty fine for me I feel all parts that they are done good):
Monday: chest and biceps plus intervals
Tuesday: backs plus ABS
Wednesday: off
Thursday: shoulders and triceps plus intervals
Friday: legs and ABS
Sat-Sun: off

At last creative conversation

gymsoldier

xgtdec wrote: »

Silly question but if you curling a 25Kg dumbell 36 times on each arm, i going to presume ya have decent arms anyway?

And if its biceps your after should it not be like a 40Kg dumbell x6x4x2 or along them lines

i'm just curious cause 25Kg dumbells curls x 36 tells me ya got serious arms anyway...no??

He just got Barbells and Dumbells mixed up is all. Its 25kg Barbell, 10kg Dumbell.

wersal gummage

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Don't bother wasting your money on ....... l-glutamine ......

just wondering why you say this ?

Doug Cartel

wersal gummage wrote: »

just wondering why you say this ?

Just to keep things simple. There's so many of these different things that may or may not work, you might as well just forget about them and concentrate on the important things first.

Compak

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Just to keep things simple. There's so many of these different things that may or may not work, you might as well just forget about them and concentrate on the important things first.

or in the case of l-glutamine, those things that definitely dont work

Compak

Sonics2k wrote: »

So whats the best way to go to build up larger arms, and try to get rid of these lean ones I have.

Well this is your biggest mistake imo. Youre taken up with the idea of big arms.
Im gonna go out on a limb and say at your weight your not someone with a unique genetic disformity that is big everywhere but arms wont grow.

Train your body and arms will grow simple as.

You train bis twice a week adn lump back and legs together. It is pure sacreligious.

You think any amount of bicep curls can match the growth stimulus (including arms) as a session of pullups and deadlifts.

Also youre just doing yourself a disadvantage. Many people respond to less not more for biceps. Looks like you are doing way too much for them. I know a few bodybuilders whose bicep session is limited to 4-6 sets per week

Hanley

Compak wrote: »

Also youre just doing yourself a disadvantage. Many people respond to less not more for biceps. Looks like you are doing way too much for them. I know a few bodybuilders whose bicep session is limited to 4-6 sets per week

Yeah... but how did they build their arms in the first place? I'd be willing to bet it wasn't by just doing 4-6 sets per week.

What a top level guy does NOW is absolutely no use to some newb.

xgtdec

Compak wrote: »

You train bis twice a week adn lump back and legs together. It is pure sacreligious.

I do this, legs and back on the same day..never ever had an issue with it and after 6 months of doing it, its still getting results.....do i need to stop now that its sacreligious?

Compak

Hanley wrote: »

Yeah... but how did they build their arms in the first place? I'd be willing to bet it wasn't by just doing 4-6 sets per week.

What a top level guy does NOW is absolutely no use to some newb.

No good point they built them through core lifts deadlifts, pullups etc...........Dang if only I said that..........Oh wait!!!!!!

Hanley

Compak wrote: »

No good point they built them through core lifts deadlifts, pullups etc...........Dang if only I said that..........Oh wait!!!!!!

Nobody has built a great set of arms through deadlifting.

How does one build arms thru deadlifting?

Someone link the Jay Farrant thread there before I start repeating myself.

Compak

xgtdec wrote: »

I do this, legs and back on the same day..never ever had an issue with it and after 6 months of doing it, its still getting results.....do i need to stop now that its sacreligious?

6 months well cant argue with some one who has trained that long can I.

Anyway, if you were lumping legs and back together so you could fit more bis in then yes it would be a disgrace.

If you put them together as it made a nice fit like the WBB1 workout where they incorporate squats and deadlifts together in a 3 day per week workout, then no its a great workout.

Were you asking a serious question or nitpicking. Cant believe I have to justify points like this.

Compak

Hanley wrote: »

Nobody has built a great set of arms through deadlifting.

How does one build arms thru deadlifting?

Someone link the Jay Farrant thread there before I start repeating myself.

Yeah your are right what would I know anyway............

deadlifts no increases in GH, no increases in testosterone, no increased CNS adaptation and then pullups no high load on the biceps

Though I must admit when it comes to "toning" I dont know how good they are

wersal gummage

Compak wrote: »

or in the case of l-glutamine, those things that definitely dont work

Again just interested to hear why you say this? What is it based on? If you are a nutrition expert or whatever be good to hear why this is such a wate of time.

Compak

wersal gummage wrote: »

Again just interested to hear why you say this? What is it based on? If you are a nutrition expert or whatever be good to hear why this is such a wate of time.

Here's an extract of a recent article I wrote. I cant post the whole thing as it has not being released yet and thus would be inappropriate. I can answer further questions though

"Glutamine depletion is now being recognised as a marker of overtraining, which is something all weightlifters should be looking to avoid [3]. Exercise of the duration and intensity necessary to deplete glutamine is associated with increased release of the catabolic glucocorticoids and suppression of growth hormone release – the opposite of what we want to happen. Indeed, in moderate intensity exercise especially where the workload is progressively increased, glutamine status improves in the body [3, 4]."

Hanley

Compak wrote: »

Yeah your are right what would I know anyway............

deadlifts no increases in GH, no increases in testosterone, no increased CNS adaptation and then pullups no high load on the biceps

Though I must admit when it comes to "toning" I dont know how good they are

How much of an increase does it create? Is it statistically significant? If it is, does this significance carryover to the real world?

What does CNS adaptation to deadlifts have to do with arm size?

Pull ups, done the way they should be, won't have that much effect on your biceps.

Why would you avoid exercises specifically targeted at making your arms bigger if that's what you want (ie curls)?

Doug Cartel

wersal gummage wrote: »

Again just interested to hear why you say this? What is it based on? If you are a nutrition expert or whatever be good to hear why this is such a wate of time.

First up, I am not a nutrition expert, I'm just some guy who spends too much time on the internet.

l-glutamine is given to people who have had surgery to help them recover more quickly. This has been tested and there is plenty of clinical evidence to support it. Someone decided that if it helps people recover from surgery then it should help people recover form training. This hasn't really been tested and there isn't any evidence to support it, as far as I know.

There's a lot of supplements out there, so if someone says to me they're confused about them, my answer is just forget about them and try to eat properly.

Compak

Hanley wrote: »

How much of an increase does it create? Is it statistically significant? If it is, does this significance carryover to the real world?

What does CNS adaptation to deadlifts have to do with arm size?

Pull ups, done the way they should be, won't have that much effect on your biceps.

Why would you avoid exercises specifically targeted at making your arms bigger if that's what you want (ie curls)?

Simply because it is not working for him. I know a lad who bicep curled a light weight for over an hour a day while sitting watching tv. Every day a minimum of an hour.
His biceps were massive. He found something that worked.

However, the poster here has stated he overemphasises his biceps yet they are his lagging part. I think it is pretty clear he needs a new approach.

When it comes to our bodies we need to find what works even when looking at scientific studies in training they wont be powered to observe benefits in a minority

A simple n=1 trial for 4 weeks, a new approach less emphasis on direct bicep work more on whole body growth through diet and training and if he grows overall his bis should move up also.

Dathai

So you'd suggest this guy should stay away from benching, incline bench, curls, skull crushers, close grip benching and dips etc that are proven to strengthen and increase the size of the arms, simply because when he trains his arms under his current program, it's not working for him?

Hanley

Dathai wrote: »

So you'd suggest this guy should stay away from benching, incline bench, curls, skull crushers, close grip benching and dips etc that are proven to strengthen and increase the size of the arms, simply because when he trains his arms under his current program, it's not working for him?

You've kind of missed the point there.

Dathai

Actually, you're right. Missed the bit about the "new approach".

xgtdec

Compak wrote: »

6 months well cant argue with some one who has trained that long can I.

6 months with legs and back on same day, but that very comment tells me all i need to know about you.

Compak

Dathai wrote: »

So you'd suggest this guy should stay away from benching, incline bench, curls, skull crushers, close grip benching and dips etc that are proven to strengthen and increase the size of the arms, simply because when he trains his arms under his current program, it's not working for him?

No sir, I suggest he refrain from his overemphasis on isolated bicep work, and give a fair appropriation of time to compound movements

Considering, close grip and dips are compound movements which hit triceps hard I would definitely want him to incorporate them. Indeed with triceps making up two thirds of your arm size, it shows another flaw in concentrating on biceps for arm growth.

c.n.s

Sonics2k wrote: »

Hey there folks!

First of all I'll give a bit of a background on myself.
Since my late teens I've usually been in top condition, but a few years ago (about 21) I was diagnosed with a blood disorder that basically wasted my muscle tone down to nothing, combined with working a desk job and having kids to raise, I became a lanky sod, with a bit of belly fat.

In the last 7 months, I've been cleared of the blood disorder and so started getting back into shape, so frequent jogging, swimming, weights at home, sit-ups/squats etc and I'm now back in great condition (even have my 6 pack back).

But now on topic, despite doing a lot of weights (about 15kg per dumbbell) every 2 days, and following a pretty strict regime, my arms just do not seem to gain size.
When my arms are straight out, it looks like a thin useless thing without muscle, but when I do flex they become much more obvious around the bicep.

Now, I've been looking up supplements, such as Creatine and Whey and would like to know which is better, more likely to help me physically bulk up and where it's available.

I've checked out H&B of course, but I've seen very mixed reviews here on whether they should be bought.

So whats the best way to go to build up larger arms, and try to get rid of these lean ones I have.
edit: forgot to add stats.
Gender: Male
Height: 188cm
Weight: 77 kg

It means you should change your biceps workout If your arms don't wanna gain after such time.
Try mix/ change your routine every week (i.e. order). Try to do drop sets at the and of your sets and you will see big difference in shape of your biceps.

Of course you can use creatine but also try Nitrix Oxide which gives a nice muscle pump
P.S. Don't forget about good diet

cc87

Compak wrote: »

Here's an extract of a recent article I wrote. I cant post the whole thing as it has not being released yet and thus would be inappropriate. I can answer further questions though

"Glutamine depletion is now being recognised as a marker of overtraining, which is something all weightlifters should be looking to avoid [3]. Exercise of the duration and intensity necessary to deplete glutamine is associated with increased release of the catabolic glucocorticoids and suppression of growth hormone release – the opposite of what we want to happen. Indeed, in moderate intensity exercise especially where the workload is progressively increased, glutamine status improves in the body [3, 4]."

Doesnt this extract just point out the damage glutamine depletion may do?

Which would argue for the supplementation of glutamine?

Doug Cartel

cc87 wrote: »

Doesnt this extract just point out the damage glutamine depletion may do?

Which would argue for the supplementation of glutamine?

I don't have any science to back this up right now, but the counter-argument to this I've heard is that the body doesn't usually absorb glutamine directly form food, and you have to be fair wrecked before this starts to happen. Much more wrecked than you would from even a very strenuous training session.