30 KPH spped limit on the M50 roundabout and the N3

Murt10

I have just sent a letter off to our local TD and Minister for Transport on this matter. I'll let you know if i get any result.

Others may also like to draw his attention to the stupidity of the 30 KPH (18MPH) speed limit.

His address is leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie

I contacted him previously and found him very helpful and he responded quite quickly. Let's hope he hasn't changed.


Murt

athtrasna

It makes sense on the awful bendy bits IMO and as far as I know it's mainly to do with the risk of trucks overturning as has happened at other new junctions including the airport/M50 south junction.

Twigster

So it drops to thirty for a couple of hundred yards, is it going to make that much of a difference to a journey? As said it's definitely a safety reason it's not as if they have a speed camera parked on it and are doing it for the money.

bofh666ie

Twigster wrote: »

So it drops to thirty for a couple of hundred yards, is it going to make that much of a difference to a journey? As said it's definitely a safety reason it's not as if they have a speed camera parked on it and are doing it for the money.

Yet

anniehoo

athtrasna wrote: »

It makes sense on the awful bendy bits IMO and as far as I know it's mainly to do with the risk of trucks overturning as has happened at other new junctions including the airport/M50 south junction.

Yeh i agree, i took it a bit too fast awhile back and it scared the bejaysus out of me. Its very deceptive and its difficult to see how sharp the bend is until you're literally on it. Could easily see how a truck would overturn on it. If it was a long stretch of motorway is be like "WTF" but its such a small part and really is just a safety measure.

ciaran76

Every week I see paint or cans that have fallen from a truck just at the bottom of that bend. This week it looks like a can of glue but not 100%

I dont mind it dropping to 30km to be honest as my journey home is now 25 mins from Swords to Clonee compared to almost 45 mins to an hour 1 year ago.

Twigster

In reality anyway if they upped the speed to fifty you'd get people trying to take it at 80, it'd still be too slow for some people.

ChewChew

I find it exceptionally annoying. Not the whole dropping from 80 to 50 to 30. I do that no problem, but it's the morons behind me who have major issues with it. I've had so many near incidents on that road because of over drivers inability to abide by speed limits. I had one guy who tried to intimidate me off the road by driving so close to the back of my car, I couldn't even see his lights!! It's an all round danger, and because of other motorists, I do agree that 30KPH is a bit too slow, I think 50 would be acceptable.

fptosca

too slow speed limits are as dangerous as too high speed limits. Distracted drivers who "respect the rules of the road" brake hard to get the car down to 30 and they are a hazard to be honest.
50 would be fine even for trucks as it's proven by the fact that 50 is indeed the speed in which most trucks currently take that bend.

Gaspode

ChewChew wrote: »

I find it exceptionally annoying. Not the whole dropping from 80 to 50 to 30. I do that no problem, but it's the morons behind me who have major issues with it. I've had so many near incidents on that road because of over drivers inability to abide by speed limits. I had one guy who tried to intimidate me off the road by driving so close to the back of my car, I couldn't even see his lights!! It's an all round danger, and because of other motorists, I do agree that 30KPH is a bit too slow, I think 50 would be acceptable.

Yep, I agree.
I was coming towards Ashtown from Clonee today and dropped down to 30kph for that stretch (not suddenly or anything), and 4 moronic drivers behind me swerved all about the place in their rush to get by me. One guy beeped at me for ages, and when I drew level with him at the lights at the bottom of the hill he started beeping again and gesticulating away at me. There's one heart attack another day closer.

Random

unrealistic speed limits mean that everyone just does their own thing. i think this is another prime example. there's back roads down the country not wide enough for 2 bikes to pass with speed limits of 80.

ongarboy

Murt10 wrote: »

I have just sent a letter off to our local TD and Minister for Transport on this matter. I'll let you know if i get any result.

Others may also like to draw his attention to the stupidity of the 30 KPH (18MPH) speed limit.

His address is leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie

I contacted him previously and found him very helpful and he responded quite quickly. Let's hope he hasn't changed.


Murt

I'd imagine these speed restrictions are based on international best practice safety recommendations for these types of road designs and not just something the council or the NRA pulled out of the air. I doubt any local politician (transport minister or otherwise) can get rid of these if any chance of safety is compromised. I also got a bit of a shock the first couple of times doing these free flow sharp bends at 80kph or so (admitting carelessness here!) during the sharpest points and belatedly appreciate the limits now.

While I do feel 30 may be overly cautious, you definitely would need to be no higher than 50. As someone else posted, many drivers will add 10/20 kph to the advised speed so if you set it at 50, some would think 70 or 80 is fine when it would not be.

sdanseo

athtrasna wrote: »

It makes sense on the awful bendy bits IMO and as far as I know it's mainly to do with the risk of trucks overturning as has happened at other new junctions including the airport/M50 south junction.

Agreed 100% it makes perfect sense on the 270 degree turns on the freeflow junctions.

It does not, however, make one shred of sense on the section travelling on the M3 southbound through the junction. It doesn't turn by 270 degrees or anything near it, and doesn't require a 50 limit let alone a 30. Should be 60.

G.MAN

Murt10 wrote: »

I have just sent a letter off to our local TD and Minister for Transport on this matter. I'll let you know if i get any result.

Others may also like to draw his attention to the stupidity of the 30 KPH (18MPH) speed limit.

His address is leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie

I contacted him previously and found him very helpful and he responded quite quickly. Let's hope he hasn't changed.


Murt

Seriously?..I think he might have some more pressing matters to deal with.its only a couple of hundred yards and its a dangerous bend...dont worry about it

Pineapple stu

30kph is a stupid limit on the ramps, the car will stall trying to go that slow up it. Someone mentioned that the limit is there for trucks etc to prevent them from tipping over on the bend, to me thats just nonsense. Its simple, you drive to the conditions of the road and not to the max speed limit. Anyone driving along there would ( or should ) drive with enough care so that they have full control of their vehicle to go around it safely. It doesnt matter if the limit is 100mph you are not going to take it at 100mph are you.

G.MAN

Pineapple stu wrote: »

30kph is a stupid limit on the ramps, the car will stall trying to go that slow up it. Someone mentioned that the limit is there for trucks etc to prevent them from tipping over on the bend, to me thats just nonsense. Its simple, you drive to the conditions of the road and not to the max speed limit. Anyone driving along there would ( or should ) drive with enough care so that they have full control of their vehicle to go around it safely. It doesnt matter if the limit is 100mph you are not going to take it at 100mph are you.

unfortunately somebody would try and take it at 100mph!!..

G.MAN

Pineapple stu wrote: »

30kph is a stupid limit on the ramps, the car will stall trying to go that slow up it. Someone mentioned that the limit is there for trucks etc to prevent them from tipping over on the bend, to me thats just nonsense. Its simple, you drive to the conditions of the road and not to the max speed limit. Anyone driving along there would ( or should ) drive with enough care so that they have full control of their vehicle to go around it safely. It doesnt matter if the limit is 100mph you are not going to take it at 100mph are you.

its not on all the ramps, just the stretch with the sharp bends at Blanch and Naas Road

Twigster

Pineapple stu wrote: »

30kph is a stupid limit on the ramps, the car will stall trying to go that slow up it.

Can you not change down in gears? Or does your car cut out everytime you go up a slight incline at 30?

Murt10

I drive am automatic. There are no gears to change down. Trying to stay below 30 KPH is the problem, especially going up and down hills. It is nigh on impossible to stay under 30 KPH and drive safely. I actually spend so much time looking down at the speedo, I am more dangerous that I would be at 50kph.

Also, on my car, cruise control doesn't work at 30 KPH. It works fine at 50 KPH.

Murt10

G.MAN wrote: »

its not on all the ramps, just the stretch with the sharp bends at Blanch and Naas Road

30 KPH is also the limit coming off the M50 northbound at Finglas, heading towards Town. You can actually see the sign as you drive by on the M50.

G.MAN

lol...sometimes i think some of these threads are wind ups!!

athtrasna

Pineapple stu wrote: »

30kph is a stupid limit on the ramps, the car will stall trying to go that slow up it. Someone mentioned that the limit is there for trucks etc to prevent them from tipping over on the bend, to me thats just nonsense

It's not nonsense, when the airport freeflow slips opened there was at least one truck overturning a week by taking the turn too sharply. High sided vehicles are affected much more by sharp turns at speed. Coming off the M50 north, the slip onto the N3 avoiding the hospital has plenty of dangerous bends worthy of a 30 IMO

sdanseo

athtrasna wrote: »

It's not nonsense, when the airport freeflow slips opened there was at least one truck overturning a week by taking the turn too sharply. High sided vehicles are affected much more by sharp turns at speed. Coming off the M50 north, the slip onto the N3 avoiding the hospital has plenty of dangerous bends worthy of a 30 IMO

That slip is like a little rollercoaster.

LostinBlanch

Twigster wrote: »

Can you not change down in gears? Or does your car cut out everytime you go up a slight incline at 30?

That is not a slight incline, when you're driving on it, it feels like closer to 40 degrees! Murt has given you reasons why some drivers find it difficult to go up that hill at 30kmh. It's not nice trying to go up that hill while keeping strictly to 30, I usually pull into the left lane as soon as possible and let everyone else go ahead at their own speed.

I had thought that the speed limit was put in at 30 in order to make sure that people slow down to 50!

Pineapple stu

athtrasna wrote: »

It's not nonsense, when the airport freeflow slips opened there was at least one truck overturning a week by taking the turn too sharply. High sided vehicles are affected much more by sharp turns at speed. Coming off the M50 north, the slip onto the N3 avoiding the hospital has plenty of dangerous bends worthy of a 30 IMO

It is nonsense because if a truck turns over its down to driver error not the speed limit.

Pineapple stu

Twigster wrote: »

Can you not change down in gears? Or does your car cut out everytime you go up a slight incline at 30?

Its 30 kmh which is around 18mph wich is dangerously too slow on any free flowing stretch of road especially on an incline with a bend . Have you driven that section from the N3 onto the M50 ?

Twigster

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Its 30 kmh which is around 18mph wich is dangerously too slow on any free flowing stretch of road especially on an incline with a bend . Have you driven that section from the N3 onto the M50 ?

yes regularly and i think it's a dangerous bend to be taking at even 50km/h so a lower limit is needed. do you not think that the fact that there is the incline and the bend that is the reason the limit is so low, i doubt they just put it there for the craic. I'd say that the limit is too slow after the bend and should go back to 80 sooner than it does, and to 100 sooner than it does also, but i'd agree with the lower limit on the actual bend itself.

and seriously, if people's cars can't drive at that speed they should get them checked out, as for an automatic, it's my understanding that they automatically shift down in gear? hence the name. It's not as steep an incline as those on strawberry beds and would you say you're not able to drive them at 30?

BostonB

Some crack on those with frost and ice.

spooky donkey

Twigster wrote: »

yes regularly and i think it's a dangerous bend to be taking at even 50km/h so a lower limit is needed. do ?

I dont think I have ever seen a car take this at less than 60K. Never seen trucks use it though....

Victor

Murt10 wrote: »

I actually spend so much time looking down at the speedo, I am more dangerous that I would be at 50kph.

Then stop staring at your speedometer.

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Its 30 kmh which is around 18mph wich is dangerously too slow on any free flowing stretch of road especially on an incline with a bend .

So, you would like to read-end someone who has broken down around the corner?

Pineapple stu

Twigster wrote: »

yes regularly and i think it's a dangerous bend to be taking at even 50km/h so a lower limit is needed. do you not think that the fact that there is the incline and the bend that is the reason the limit is so low, i doubt they just put it there for the craic. I'd say that the limit is too slow after the bend and should go back to 80 sooner than it does, and to 100 sooner than it does also, but i'd agree with the lower limit on the actual bend itself.

and seriously, if people's cars can't drive at that speed they should get them checked out, as for an automatic, it's my understanding that they automatically shift down in gear? hence the name. It's not as steep an incline as those on strawberry beds and would you say you're not able to drive them at 30?

I drove it last night from the N3 onto the M50 south and i dropped down to 50 and then to 30 and it is dangerously too slow, it was walking pace . Fair enough if it was 30mph but 30 kph is just plain stupid. There is a same bend leading from the M50 to Naas road outbound and its double the limit so is it just Fingal co co that came up with the limit or the NRA.?

Pineapple stu

Victor wrote: »

Then stop staring at your speedometer.

So, you would like to read-end someone who has broken down around the corner?

Thats a stupid question Victor, are you under the impression that i havent a clue how to drive and not aware of any potential dangers on the road ?
If i was going 30kph in any direction around that bend it would be the same as breaking down especially if a truck comes behind me travelling a bit quicker.

BostonB

Pineapple stu wrote: »

... i dropped down to 50 and then to 30 and it is dangerously too slow, it was walking pace...

Er...

3.6–5.4 km/h Average walking speed.

I'd like to see you walking at 30 km/h

ChewChew

I took it today at 50. there were 4 cars and a transit behind me and they all over took me. 50 is a fine speed to take it. 80, no. 30, no.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Murt10

Victor wrote: »

Originally Posted by Murt10: I actually spend so much time looking down at the speedo, I am more dangerous that I would be at 50kph.

Victor: Then stop staring at your speedometer.

Unless I keep staring at the speedometer I will without question be breaking the 18 mph speed limit, risking penalty points, a hefty fine and increased insurance premiums.

These speed limits are suppost to make the roads safer. To my mind they fail miserably. They in no small way increase the danger of an accident.

Moving away from the M50 for a moment. The Quays in Town are an even worse nightmare. Drunks, pedestrians and cyclists walking/falling cycling in front of you, all the while you are preoccupied with staying under 18 MPH speed limit and also trying to stay in the correct lane.

I suppose if there is any bright side, it's that if you do hit someone at such a slow speed you are unlikely to kill anyone.

If the RSA are really serious about keeping the speed down then they should install appropriate speed reduction measures. Those small 3 - 4 inch high ramps spring to mind. Scare the living daylights out of anyone.

Pineapple stu

BostonB wrote: »

Er...



I'd like to see you walking at 30 km/h

I knew someone would go to the effort of posting the exact walking pace .

zbluebirdz

The problem with a number of these "off-ramps" and "on-ramps" (eg M50 south onto n3), is that the bends in the roads are too flat - they don't have a high cant/camber*. With a higher cant/camber, the tall vehicles are less likely to tip over. However, in icy conditions, vehicles are likely to slip down into the bend if they're going very slow ...


The road that goes from N3 to Navan road, there's a 30k limit going up the S bend and hill. Visibility is reduced and the risk of bumping into another car on the other side of the "hill" is very high - hence the 30k limit. Again, another poor road design.


IMHO, in some cases, the limit of 30k is there for a reason - mainly due to poor road design.


* Cant/Camber: Quoting wikipedia:
The cant of a railway track (also referred to as superelevation) or a road (sometimes referred to as camber or cross slope) is the difference in elevation (height) between the two edges. This is normally done where the railway or road is curved; raising the outer rail or the outer edge of the road provides a banked turn, allowing vehicles to traverse the curve at higher speeds than would otherwise be possible.

ted1

it's completely bad road design. As mentioned above the cambers are all wrong.

Dub XV

Pineapple stu wrote: »

30kph is a stupid limit on the ramps, the car will stall trying to go that slow up it. Someone mentioned that the limit is there for trucks etc to prevent them from tipping over on the bend, to me thats just nonsense. Its simple, you drive to the conditions of the road and not to the max speed limit. Anyone driving along there would ( or should ) drive with enough care so that they have full control of their vehicle to go around it safely. It doesnt matter if the limit is 100mph you are not going to take it at 100mph are you.

If it was a 100mph limit and you drove at that speed around that bend FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER...I bet that by the time you scrape the **** outta your shorts you would vow never to take it at 100mph again.

It's there as a warning to unsuspecting drivers (regular or artic) that there is a major, severe bend ahead which requires caution. Simple as that.

Dub XV

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Thats a stupid question Victor, are you under the impression that i havent a clue how to drive and not aware of any potential dangers on the road ?
If i was going 30kph in any direction around that bend it would be the same as breaking down especially if a truck comes behind me travelling a bit quicker.

But you think a truck coming behind you when you are travelling at 30kph is the same as you being at a complete stop is the same.

On yer bike!

Pineapple stu

Dub XV wrote: »

If it was a 100mph limit and you drove at that speed around that bend FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER...I bet that by the time you scrape the **** outta your shorts you would vow never to take it at 100mph again.

It's there as a warning to unsuspecting drivers (regular or artic) that there is a major, severe bend ahead which requires caution. Simple as that.

There are signs warning of the bend ahead and i would drive with caution regardless of the speed limit.

Pineapple stu

Dub XV wrote: »

But you think a truck coming behind you when you are travelling at 30kph is the same as you being at a complete stop is the same.

On yer bike!

Depends on the speed of the truck, and i dont have a bike .

Do you drive? do you drive on the said section of road ? If you did then you would realise how dangerous travelling at 30kph there is.

The whole point of the lay out was to do away with the build of traffic in the first place , if every vehicle travelled at 30kph the traffic will be at a stop coming off the M50 and the N3 .

Dub XV

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Depends on the speed of the truck, and i dont have a bike .

Do you drive? do you drive on the said section of road ? If you did then you would realise how dangerous travelling at 30kph there is.

The whole point of the lay out was to do away with the build of traffic in the first place , if every vehicle travelled at 30kph the traffic will be at a stop coming off the M50 and the N3 .

Yes I do drive.....as part of my job.....and use that section more than once a day.

I have never once seen a build up of traffic there!

jack presley

Dub XV wrote: »

I have never once seen a build up of traffic there!

That's probably because nobody drives it at 30!

Dub XV

jack presley wrote: »

That's probably because nobody drives it at 30!

That's a fair point.....

Take that sign as a warning...if you end up hittin the wall you could look like a proper plank

wildlifeman

i saw this thread ages ago and wondered what section ye were on about. I drive this road twice a day and never noticed the limit. I average 60 - 70 going onto the M50 and its quite fun manouvering at that speed. feels like a race track.

Pineapple stu

Dub XV wrote: »

That's a fair point.....

Take that sign as a warning...if you end up hittin the wall you could look like a proper plank

They have breaks on cars nowdays

BostonB

Pineapple stu wrote: »

They have breaks on cars nowdays

You might want to get those breaks fixed. Brakes would be much more useful.

Dub XV

Pineapple stu wrote: »

They have breaks on cars nowdays

So that's where all those people who have car accidents are going wrong

Pineapple stu

You need a brake from driving when you are tired