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Ireland vs England Match Thread, Sat 19 March 5pm; **Mod Warning Read OP**

  • 17-03-2011 1:23pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006




    Mod Warning;

    I've been through the thread and dished out a fair few cards. There is a lot of nonsense creeping in here so let me re-iterate, keep it civil and don't abuse each other, players or pundits. and stay away from Leinster/Munster crap. Oh an it also doesn't hurt to be a little bit gracious in victory. Some of the comments here are frankly pathetic. Any more and I'm dishing out bans. I won't tolerate a repeat of last weekends Wales/Ireland thread.

    IRFU-Logo.jpgVS rfu%20logo.jpg

    Ireland:
    15 Keith Earls 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Brian O'Driscoll (c), 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Andrew Trimble, 10 Jonathan Sexton 9 Eoin Reddan,
    8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 David Wallace, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Paul O'Connell, 4 Donncha O'Callaghan, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.

    Replacements: 16 Sean Cronin, 17 Tom Court, 18 Leo Cullen, 19 Denis Leamy, 20 Peter Stringer, 21 Ronan O'Gara, 22 Paddy Wallace.

    England:
    15 Ben Foden, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Matt Banahan, 12 Shontayne Hape, 11 Mark Cueto, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Ben Youngs ,
    8 Nick Easter , 7 James Haskell, 6 Tom Wood, 5 Tom Palmer, 4 Louis Deacon, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Alex Corbisiero.

    Replacements: 16 Steve Thompson, 17 Paul Doran-Jones, 18 Simon Shaw, 19 Tom Croft, 20 Danny Care, 21 Jonny Wilkinson, 22 David Strettle.

    Date: Saturday, 19 March
    Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
    Kick-off: 17:00 GMT
    Referee: Bryce Lawrence (New Zealand)
    Assistant referees: Nigel Owens (Wales), Tim Hayes (Wales)
    TMO:Giulio De Santis (Italy)

    For the third time in 11 years, England come to Dublin on St Patrick’s weekend in search of a Grand Slam. Ireland and England share a special rivalry, founded by a web of history between the two nations. In all sports we as Irish love to compare ourselves to our “friends across the water”. England may be Ireland’s principal trade partner and economic friend but when it comes to sport, there is no love lost and no quarter given by either side. There will be a palpable level of fear in the home crowd because England are not in Dublin to make up the numbers. They are in Dublin to win and they certainly believe they can win at Lansdowne Road for the first time since 2003.

    The Irish management and players will see this game as an opportunity to get back on the horse. A loss against England would equal Ireland’s worst Six Nations performance since 2008, when Eddie O’Sullivan was removed from his position. With the World Cup to come this isn’t where Ireland wants to be. The team is an unknown quantity, they fade in and out of games, their playing style isn’t clearly defined and there is a lack of cutting edge, a far cry from 2009 where Ireland converted nearly all of their opportunities. Who is to blame for this? Is it wrong to look further than the coaches? Unlike with France, you can never question the Irish players’ commitment to the jersey. Is it Declan Kidney making the wrong selections or Alan Gaffney’s back play methods? Why have Ireland fallen so far from where we were in 2009? Not that Ireland were world beaters in 2009 but Ireland’s relatively limited game plan was effective. The rugby world may have passed us by; the style of rugby that won the Grand Slam is now redundant. Has the management team become stale; are these the men who can take the team forward? Ireland have either won while playing badly or just lost the match. With the successes of the Irish provinces over the last 4 years, this level of performance from the national side isn’t good enough. It may be a cliché but Ireland is not better than the sum of its parts.

    Since he took the job, Declan Kidney spoke of “building a panel” for the World Cup. So it begs the question almost three years on, has he been true to his word? Well his supporters would say he has sorted out the problem positions, namely tighthead prop and fly-half. This is so but what about squad depth? What if Brian O’Driscoll gets hurt? We have no readymade outside centre to fill his considerable boots. Kidney , like Eddie O’Sullivan before him, is content to stick with his first choice XV and opt for continuity. This has its merits, but what about giving substitutes gametime? With the exception of replacing O’Gara for Sexton and vice versa, the replacements have been sparingly used. Is a case of “If X gets injured, then Y who is next in line just goes straight in without ample preparation” correct? Should the likes of Sean Cronin and Leo Cullen not have gotten at least one start in the championship to familarise themselves with the first XV? This may be possibly overstating the effect of gametime but in terms of building a panel, surely it was the way to do things? Kidney has rarely changed the team for tactical reasons.

    England now have a real test on their hands. It is not due to the fact that Ireland are a great team but more the pressure of the English fans and media that expect England to win on Saturday. With their shocking recent record of 6 losses in the last 7 tests against Ireland, the English players are too well accustomed to losing against Ireland. History however counts for naught in sport so the players must block out the past and focus on the present. They have been presented with a golden opportunity, an out of sorts Ireland are there for the taking if England believe in themselves and repeat the form they showed when they routed Australia in the autumn. In terms of talent they are arguably inferior to Ireland (the current side doesn’t stack up to the greats of 2003 with Johnson, Dallaglio, Greenwood, Dawson et al) but form is more important than talent. The English must leave the comfort of Fortress Twickenham where they have racked up 3 consecutive wins and face a dangerous wounded animal in their own den. They have maybe gone slightly backwards after having to tough out wins over France and Scotland but winning creates momentum. The side endured a torrid two initial years under Johnson as he struggled to make his mark on the side, a Grand Slam would vindicate all the huffing and puffing of years gone by.

    Team Lineups

    Ireland make two personnel changes and one positional change to the side that lost to Wales. Jonny Sexton replaces Ronan O’Gara who reverts to the bench. Keith Earls moves to fullback and replaces Luke Fitzgerald who drops out of the 22 altogether. Andrew Trimble makes his first appearance of the tournament, starting on the left wing.

    England make just one change to the starting lineup that defeated Scotland. Matt Banahan starts at outside centre, replacing Mike Tindall. Nick Easter assumes the England captaincy in Tindall's absence and David Strettle is named on the bench.

    Key Attackers:
    Keith-Earls-ahead-of-Paris_2418125.jpgChris-Ashton-points-try-england-v-wales-2011_2558877.jpg

    Keith Earls vs Chris Ashton: This isn’t necessarily a head to head battle but these two are important attacking weapons for their respective sides. The championship has shown that Earls is far better suited to being in the back three than centre, where the positive parts to his game are most pronounced. He has answered his critics and shown that he possesses the rugby smarts and composure for test match rugby. He was outstanding against Wales last weekend, making excellent decisions in tricky defensive situations and in attack showing a lot of strength in contact and was very busy for work. The Munster man was easily Ireland’s most effective back and would have crowned his performance with a try had Paddy Wallace fed him the ball in the last moments of the match. Having been moved to fullback, this should give him more time and space to cut defences apart with his pace. However he may not be the answer in a counter attacking sense, he has little experience with counterattacking and linking with wingers as Geordan Murphy can. While he will always play ‘heads up’ rugby, England may well target his inexperience in playing the ‘goalkeeping’ role.

    Earls’ opposite number Ashton has been one of the sensations of the tournament. He is the current top try scorer in the competition with 6 tries and is now one of the first players on the England team sheet. For a player who is only in his fourth season in rugby union (Ashton grew up in a rugby league background and started his professional career with Wigan Warriors in Super League) he has shown an innate understanding of the game. He always appears when England have turnover ball or need an extra man. You could say Ashton is England’s Sergio Parisse: He just seems to be everywhere. He has shown himself to be much more than a capable and pacey finisher, his superb running lines and reading of the game have proven he is a complete footballer.

    While these two players are unlikely to come up face to face in a one on one contest, they have been in outstanding form and are both likely try scorers should opportunities come their way. Like any outside backs they will rely heavily on the efforts and services from those inside them. Their teammates will be only too happy to give them the ball because they know that special things can happen with either of these players in possession.

    The English centres: Powerful in attack but suspect in defence?
    England-v-Samoa-Shontayne-Hape-pa_2531920.jpgMatt-Banahan-met-by-Stephen-Hoiles_2465952.jpg
    Shontayne Hape and Matt Banahan make up a hard hitting and powerful English centre partnership. When Mike Tindall departed proceedings at half-time against Scotland, Banahan entered the fray and proved a huge presence in attack and gave his team excellent go forward ball, while knocking out flanker Kelly Brown in one of his barging runs. While he has received a lot of criticism, Hape has been getting over the gain line all championship. However there is a huge doubt over both Hape's and Banahan's defensive capabilities. There is no questioning their ability to tackle, more their ability to be disciplined in defence. Against Wales Hape proved the weaklink when he rushed out of the line and opened a gap for Jonathan Davies to breeze through. Banahan has also been prone to overexcitement in defence. England's tackle and defence statistics have been excellent in this championship so any potential defensive weakness must be fully exploited by Ireland. The experienced D'Arcy and O'Driscoll will be tasked in opening up the English centres, who are both relatively inexperienced in their positions (Hape is a recent Rugby League convert and Banahan is a converted second row and normally plays on the wing for Bath).

    On the flip side, Banahan will be charged with knocking holes in the Irish defence but Brian O'Driscoll is well used to dealing with big crash ball merchants. However when taclking Banahan it's important to take man and ball as he possesses beautiful hands that can put strike runners like Chris Ashton through a defensive gap.
    Prediction: The pressure is on for both sides. Both have high completed tackle percentages and concede few line breaks so expect few holes to be punched threw the defences unless D’Arcy and O’Driscoll fail to deal with the threat of Matt Banahan which is itself unlikely. If there are few breaks there will be few tries therefore the result should come down to the kicking game (both from hand and the tee). When the reserve number 10s are introduced to change their team’s playing style should also prove critical, both Kidney and Johnson favour bringing on their replacement fly-halfs while the game is still “live”. It is England’s first visit to the revamped Lansdowne Road, a huge motivation for Ireland. As with any home international against England, Ireland will be roared on by a fiercely partisan green army. England believe they have a date with destiny and something tells me they will have just about enough to hold on for the win, but they will have to fight hard for it. England by a score.


    IRFU logo taken from sportspeak.eu, RFU logo taken from rfutouchline.com

    Teams, Refs etc taken from:
    http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3820_6816852,00.html
    http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_6818243,00.html

    Player images taken from Sky Sports & Planet Rugby sources.

    Everything else is my own work.

    Who will win? 40 votes

    Ireland
    0% 0 votes
    England
    100% 40 votes


«13456713

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    I think we will get crushed in the tight and around the fringes. Our scrum will yield England about 12 points. England by 15.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    I think we will get crushed in the tight and around the fringes. Our scrum will yield England about 12 points. England by 15.

    Forgot to mention the backrow, big job for them to stop Palmer making plays close to the breakdown. He's really improved in the last 12 months.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    I'm optimistic about a win for Ireland and a good performance, but I've felt the same way ahead of every game so far and we've all seen how the 6n has gone so far. :(


  • Posts: 0 Ernesto Huge Oak


    Ireland by 12.

    Underdogs, in Dublin, with pressure heating up all around them.

    Ireland to prove us all wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I'm optimistic about a win for Ireland and a good performance, but I've felt the same way ahead of every game so far and we've all seen how the 6n has gone so far. :(

    Me too, sick of being let down so I predicted an England win. :p

    Hopefully Ireland will surprise us all!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Ireland by 12.

    Underdogs, in Dublin, with pressure heating up all around them.

    Ireland to prove us all wrong.

    Get to the bookies lad..:)


  • Posts: 0 Ernesto Huge Oak


    sportguru is my bookies :D

    Students don't get to gamble properly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Obviously want to see Ireland win bu I'm not optimistic, I don't think Earls at fb is the right choice, I don't know how much we can expect from Trimble as its his first 6N game, Heaslip and a number of others have been below their normal standard and I don't see how that will have been turned around in the last week, and I think Boss should have at least been in the 22 to offer some physicality and options as sh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭eyeball kid


    Each match up to this I thought that Ireland would win but this one, I think England will just shade it.

    Really hope I'm wrong again!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,150 ✭✭✭✭LuckyGent88


    Ireland will really need an all round solid and error free game in order to win this match. However, i dont think the English are that good of a team, they got off to a good start to a poor Welsh side and then got great confidence out of Italian result and they then had the momentum.

    Ireland at home on Paddy's weekend will be really siked for this so Ireland by 6 please God


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭steve9859


    I think a young, nervous, inexperienced (without tindall) England team will bottle it and make loads of mistakes. A lot of English pundits think that. Jeff probyn on 'off the ball' the other night was interesting, and thinks Ireland will be too good on the ball on the day. Take the English press with a pinch of salt-the people that matter (senior players and coach) are openly talking about how the team has moved on, even if they lose this match (which is true). That doesn't seem like the usual confidence that an England team would have. I think they are very nervous


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    Obviously want to see Ireland win bu I'm not optimistic, I don't think Earls at fb is the right choice, I don't know how much we can expect from Trimble as its his first 6N game, Heaslip and a number of others have been below their normal standard and I don't see how that will have been turned around in the last week, and I think Boss should have at least been in the 22 to offer some physicality and options as sh.

    Its a big big ask of Earls to play 15 and I hope that he has a stormer. Its amazing how the Wales game changed everyones opinions of him - Before the game a lot of posters were excluded him from their teams as they sought to have their favourites starting, but now he is being labeled our best back of the tournament.

    He is just starting to regain some confidence in himself and it is showing in his performances and I really hope that a poor game won't knock him back. He said at the start of the tour that he felt that his opportunity at the 15 jersey had passed him by and if he has a poor game I hope he isn't lambasted for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    steve9859 wrote: »
    I think a young, nervous, inexperienced (without tindall) England team will bottle it and make loads of mistakes. A lot of English pundits think that. Jeff probyn on 'off the ball' the other night was interesting, and thinks Ireland will be too good on the ball on the day. Take the English press with a pinch of salt-the people that matter (senior players and coach) are openly talking about how the team has moved on, even if they lose this match (which is true). That doesn't seem like the usual confidence that an England team would have. I think they are very nervous

    I think you are either confusing the English rugby writers with the English soccer writers or you have just made that up. I strongly suspect the latter. I don't think there has been a confidence around English rugby from the media and fans since we won the world cup. They are sensible, humble and knowledgable on just about every issue concerning international rugby.

    For what its worth, most people I know are quietly confident we can get the win on your patch but we will have to dominate physically and maintain work rate and organisation. It will be a close contest whatever happens imo, I certainly look forward to it.

    I doubt many of the senior players are that nervous tbh. It will be a big test of course and we weren't anywhere near our best against the Jocks, but we have won 4 in a row and are on course for a grand slam. Motivated and excited I should hope, but the senior players shouldnt be too nervous at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    the way to beat england.... dont kick the ball.. you kick to ashton/foden your just asking for trouble.

    As for the game... assuming we dont give away retarded penos its the old enemy in HQ and we have one good game in us.... Ireland by 5 ( we would do it just to kick johnson in the sack) that said i pray we are more than 3 points up before they wilko on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    twinytwo wrote: »
    the way to beat england.... dont kick the ball.. you kick to ashton/foden your just asking for trouble.

    Oh god, we dont have a hope


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    FFS Declan, why is Paddy on the bench? McFadden can cover the wings and centres. We have cover in for outhalf so thats not the reason which he could have used a few years ago. I was very shocked he kept him in.

    I dont rate P. Wallace at all for test level. He has had the chances and has not proven himself.

    I am worried about our chances this Saturday. With this games its always hard to go on form given they are the aul enemies as we say but England are good this years, bar last weeks game, and we are not. Lets hope the home crowd helps us.

    BRING THE ROAR!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,174 ✭✭✭✭phog


    BOD blogs on the injury to TOL, sounded serious.
    The whole squad were upset by the freak accident that Tomas (O'Leary) suffered. The first I knew was when the bus stopped on the way back to training and the Doc (Eanna Falvey), Sinead (Bennett) and Deccie tried to hail a passing taxi. They couldn't and when we got back to the hotel they jumped into a car and returned to the training.

    Tomas was both lucky not to have lost the sight in his eye and unlucky on the basis of the freak nature of the accident. He didn't have any vision for half an hour afterwards and as you can imagine that would be hugely scary.

    Full blog here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    Great write up Thmond2006, hope your prediction is wrong. Really looking forward to going to this game , Ashton to lose it for England when he drops the ball doing his dive :).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    I've put money on England. Now Ireland will definitely win. You're welcome.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭funky penguin


    duckysauce wrote: »
    Great write up Thmond2006, hope your prediction is wrong. Really looking forward to going to this game , Ashton to lose it for England when he drops the ball doing his dive :).

    Words cannot describe how much I wish this to happen!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,816 ✭✭✭corny


    Ireland by a score but it won't be pretty. They've a strong and powerful side but i'd back our defence as long as we don't upset Mr. Lawrence. Likewise the most impressive thing about them is their defence. Both sides score under 20 points!


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    Its Paddy's weekend.

    Of course Paddy is on the bench :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    phog wrote: »
    BOD blogs on the injury to TOL, sounded serious.



    Full blog here.

    Wow scary stuff! Hopefully Tomas will be back playing soon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,263 ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    ^^ could someone please copy & paste the content here, for those of us who can't look at gambling sites at work?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    Quotation
    Will Greenwood predicted that England's Six Nations destiny would come down to round five. Now that we've arrived at this crucial point, does he believe Martin Johnson's men can pull off a sensational Grand Slam win?
    At the start of the Six Nations I said that I believed England would go to Dublin on the final weekend in search of their first Grand Slam since 2003. That's exactly what's happened and we now have a mega Saturday of international rugby to bet on.
    I recommended that Betfair customers take the 6.6 available on an England Grand Slam because I expected them to win in Cardiff and then triumph in their three home games. So it has proved. And now it's time to trade out of that Slam bet, lock in the profit and get ready for a spectacular day of rugby punting.
    Sorry England fans - and I'm one of the biggest - but the maxim for this column's success has been that fans of the Red Rose must bet with their heads and not their hearts. We can't buck that trend now.
    England are four from four, the facts don't lie, but they have not been commanding, in fact they have been on the back foot for large parts of their last two home games. The stuttering performance against Scotland was not down to psychological weakness. We shouldn't underestimate the Scots because they produced a stellar performance against the odds but the home side were poor and, at 19-9 in the second half, you could tell that the players were already looking ahead to Dublin.
    Losing Mike Tindall is a massive blow for the team and a cruel personal blow for my old mate. He's struggled with injury throughout his career and now, having lead England to the brink of a Grand Slam, he's been ruled out with an ankle problem. I'm gutted for Mike and Johnno's men will miss his warrior spirit, his unbelievable defence. Good luck to Matt Banahan but I remember him being skinned on the outside against Samoa in the autumn and Ireland will undoutedly go after him as an inexperienced international 13.
    England are slowly constructing an outstanding team but they still have weaknesses that could be exposed by high calibre teams. I have loved watching Tom Wood and James Haskell in the back row for England but the big point here, I feel, is the absence of an out and out seven like Ireland's David Wallace or Scotland's John Barclay who disrupted England's speed of ball and with it their tempo. The breakdown has been a major concern for England in this tournament.
    The psychological hold they have over England is immense. Recent history sets strong precedents and you should never underestimate a team's ability to exploit a hex over their opponents at home.
    England have made mistakes, against France and Scotland, but they managed to cover them up at Twickenham. In Dublin, they will be punished if they commit errors. I also feel that Ireland are due a big performance, a day when they manage to take the kind of chances that they failed to finish off against France and Wales.
    This is a two to three point game which will be won and lost in the small details. It's going to be a titanic contest, the sort of day that has me yearning for yesteryear, wishing I could have one last crack at a game of this magnitude. It's going to be brutal in midfield. The forwards will batter each other while Toby Flood and Jonathan Sexton engage in a battle of wits and wills. The margins will be extremely tight and both players will take every opportunity to get points on the board from penalties and drop goals.
    An England win would be an unbelievable result. It would eclipse anything Johnno has so far achieved as a coach. November internationals and summer tours are all very well but the Six Nations and the World Cup are what it's all about. That's why I'm desperate for England to win. In the end though, I feel they will fall short by a small margin.
    Recommended bet: Back Ireland to win by under 12.5 points @ 3.2.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Its a big big ask of Earls to play 15 and I hope that he has a stormer. Its amazing how the Wales game changed everyones opinions of him - Before the game a lot of posters were excluded him from their teams as they sought to have their favourites starting, but now he is being labeled our best back of the tournament.

    He is just starting to regain some confidence in himself and it is showing in his performances and I really hope that a poor game won't knock him back. He said at the start of the tour that he felt that his opportunity at the 15 jersey had passed him by and if he has a poor game I hope he isn't lambasted for it.

    I think a lot of the reasons people were counting him out (and I was one) was that he hadn't been involved much. The ball wasn't getting out to him and he didn't seem to be coming in looking for it either. Against Wales himself and Bowe were obviously given license to get involved and you could see it in the first try. Both were involved in the centre of the pitch, totally unlike the previous games. I'm glad he's been given a shot at FB though now and hopefully he can do the business on the counter.
    duckysauce wrote: »
    Great write up Thmond2006, hope your prediction is wrong. Really looking forward to going to this game , Ashton to lose it for England when he drops the ball doing his dive :).

    Oh please God let this happen! I know some English fans who are half expecting it themselves... :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 708 ✭✭✭Timothy Bryce


    I hope the error count is low as we have the potential to cough up c.15 points from scrums alone. Can see England knicking it by a score (hopefully not a wilko DG!)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭TheRevolution


    tbh while Earls was very good against Wales I think hes been very average throughout the tournament. He still hasn't even gotten a try. I hope he can get one against England but I think people are going very over the top in their praise of him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    I think Earls has done very well this 6N - on the wing though. He could have the exact same issues as Fitz at 15. Definitely worth his place in the starting XV but I'd have left him on the wing and put Bowe at 15 or even brought in Duffy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    danthefan wrote: »
    I think Earls has done very well this 6N - on the wing though. He could have the exact same issues as Fitz at 15. Definitely worth his place in the starting XV but I'd have left him on the wing and put Bowe at 15 or even brought in Duffy.

    Really? I thought he was extremely poor against France.

    He was great against Wales though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I hope the error count is low as we have the potential to cough up c.15 points from scrums alone. Can see England knicking it by a score (hopefully not a wilko DG!)

    Why do people keep saying this??? we coughed up penalties against Italy at scrum time because Mr Poite decided to bend over and spread his cheeks for Castro but other than that by far in a long way the majority of our penalties have been conceded at the breakdown.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Why do people keep saying this??? we coughed up penalties against Italy at scrum time because Mr Poite decided to bend over and spread his cheeks for Castro but other than that by far in a long way the majority of our penalties have been conceded at the breakdown.

    +1, over the course of the tournament I thought our scrum was quite good, we have a good base to work off there. And as you say the majority of penalties weren't scrum related. On that note Best better not go off his feet in front of the ref tomorrow.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭TheRevolution


    Really? I thought he was extremely poor against France.

    He was great against Wales though

    I thought the same. Outperformed and anonymous by McFadden against Italy, very poor against France, average against Scotland and very good against Wales.

    I really don't think hes been excellent throughout and can't say I agree with people who claim hes been our best performer, that has to go hands down to O'Brien.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    I really don't think hes been excellent throughout and can't say I agree with people who claim hes been our best performer, that has to go hands down to O'Brien.

    I thought people were saying he is our best performing back, which I would agree with?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 153 ✭✭Sin a bhfuil


    I thought the same. Outperformed and anonymous by McFadden against Italy, very poor against France, average against Scotland and very good against Wales.

    I really don't think hes been excellent throughout and can't say I agree with people who claim hes been our best performer, that has to go hands down to O'Brien.

    McFaddan hardly touched the ball against Italy. Not his fault as he hardly got any work. He got a lot more work against France and did very well for his try.

    It was the opposite for Earls - did well against Italy and got no work against France. A great break though at the end of the match - Earls & Fitz worked very well for that. Pity about Cronin's knockon.

    Earls looked better than Tommy Bowe against Scotland and most people think that Earls was the pick of the backs for this tournament.

    O'Brien will probably be Irish player of the tournament - but he is one of the major offenders with regard to giving away penalties (6 so far in the tournament). Healy has given away 9, but I wouldn't blame him for half of those - that was the mad ref).

    Donncha O'Callaghan is in the top 5 tacklers for all the nations with 49 tackles so far. Dusautoir is topping it with 57. Gordon D'Arcy isn't far behind with 40. No other Irish player makes the top 10 tacklers.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    sad too say but england will win ,i really hope im wrong,irelands six nations hasnt been good over all,maybe we all get a nice surprise with a irish win


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    I thought the same. Outperformed and anonymous by McFadden against Italy, very poor against France, average against Scotland and very good against Wales.

    I really don't think hes been excellent throughout and can't say I agree with people who claim hes been our best performer, that has to go hands down to O'Brien.


    tbf.. we dont use our back 3 effectively... earls, fitz, bowe and mc fadden are very good attackers but a lot of the good ball we get is either too slow in getting to them or is wasted in some form or another( ie it dosent get to them). We know the damage SOB can do but how many times did he get good ball against wales? 2? 3? .... basically not enough. we need to play to our strengths. Considering our lineout is gone to the dogs they should be looking to retain the ball and use the back 3 and SOB/Heaslip in a far more effective manner.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭handsomecake


    ireland are poor and england are over rated with a pedestrian backline.

    i think ireland will win in a scrappy match.this will in turn buy deccie more time and give ireland a false hope.it will improve england for the world cup however as they wont get ahead of themselves
    2 sin binnings minimum in the match (hartley comes to mind)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    twinytwo wrote: »
    tbf.. we dont use our back 3 effectively... earls, fitz, bowe and mc fadden are very good attackers but a lot of the good ball we get is either too slow in getting to them or is wasted in some form or another( ie it dosent get to them). We know the damage SOB can do but how many times did he get good ball against wales? 2? 3? .... basically not enough. we need to play to our strengths. Considering our lineout is gone to the dogs they should be looking to retain the ball and use the back 3 and SOB/Heaslip in a far more effective manner.

    Agreed. And re SOB and the penalty count I'd be interested to see how many of those were for not releasing the ball after the tackle. There have been a few occasions he's been stuck without any support...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    ireland are poor and england are over rated with a pedestrian centre partnership.

    FYP

    There's nothing too shabby about how their halfbacks and back 3 have performed overall in this championship.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Thats crazy talk.

    Especially considering how very poor performances from Italy and France in Twickenham have made England look like a good team. They looked extremely ordinary against a poor Wales team in Cardiff and an even poorer Scottish team in Twickenham.

    We might be playing badly, but I don't rate them that much higher than us. They have a good back three, and a classy scrum half. That is all I'd be envious of.


  • Posts: 0 Ernesto Huge Oak


    GerM wrote: »
    FYP

    There's nothing too shabby about how their halfbacks and back 3 have performed overall in this championship.

    Flood's nothing special, Youngs and Care are just exceptionally good scrum halfs. They change the game from 9 as Genia/Gregan and very few others can/could do.

    If you get to Youngs, you have a chance to expose Flood.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Flood's nothing special, Youngs and Care are just exceptionally good scrum halfs. They change the game from 9 as Genia/Gregan and very few others can/could do.

    If you get to Youngs, you have a chance to expose Flood.

    He's not anything particularly amazing but he's having a very decent tournament. Started off excellently in the first two games but has dropped off a bit since. He's come on a lot since he first came on the scene at which time I'd have laughed if you told me he was nailed on outhalf for England.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Youngs has been running laterally a lot in the last few games and taking precious time away from Flood.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,591 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    I fully agree with the call of starting Sexton. The way I see it is this is going to be a very nervy and tight affair. It could well come down to a late penalty needing to be kicked and it makes sense to bring O Gara on the pitch for such an occurence.

    Ireland by 3 I hope.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭TheRevolution


    Bit of faith in the lads.... Thats all my drinking money for tonight gone if they dont win!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    I think we will win.


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