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6 O'Clock news this evening
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15-03-2011 09:18PM#1
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I noticed that too. I wonder why also? Conspiracy theorists reading this anywhere?podgeandrodge wrote: »actually, yer man from Saorview itself in the report only mentioned the set top boxes as well..
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Yes I'm reading.I noticed that too. I wonder why also? Conspiracy theorists reading this anywhere?
But then again there hasnt been much question thrown that way here either. Mantra on forum seems to be "Saorview certified" but no question as to why oh why is the world renouned and instantly known brand for quality and reliability:rolleyes: Walker the only certified brand for stb and TV - surely not because they are the only importer/manufacturer for the last 2 years since the specs were published who could afford to outlay the cost for certification in the hope of jumping in to a comfortable market where same brand probably wouldnt get a look in otherwise or dare I suggest....
In the stores, they aren't trying to push overpriced 100 stbs when you could get a full TV for not much more yet they get first and only mention on RTE.
No mention how if you bought your TV recently it should already be saorview compatible even if not certified.
600,000 is only the tip of the number of TVs that will become monitors after ASO. €60,000,000 worth of stbs anyone? You couldnt even get 60 PKs for that.
As ever this is Ireland and stones should not be turned for fear of who you might find under them.
I blame Zworykin, or Farnsworth, or Baird, or Belin, or Sawyer, or Carey or....;)
/crawls back under rock0 -
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That would make sense (best suggestion you ever made? ). It would really amount to clarification and stop idiocies like Panasonic's where they have interpreted the D-Book too literally.
The changes to EXISTING "freeview HD" would be minor and can be done by the OTA update that all "Freeview HD" must support already.
It's not RTE that's the problem. But UK chains in Ireland and Importers/Distributors coupled with lack of clarification of compatibility and extra features in the D Book.0 -
I think people are reading too much in to it, the report was the first such one and was aimed at giving people the basic requirements. A box is the cheapest/easiest way for anyone with an older TV currently receiving analogue off air to get saorview instead.
The last thing you want is for people to get any kind of impression that everyone will need a new TV.
The box in the report looked to have a saorview logo, the only one that does, so not much option which one to show at the moment?
As was mentioned the other last thing we want is people forking out €100 a box when they may have a TV capable of recieving Saorview anyway.
At the least people should be told that their TV may be capable of recieving these channels.YEs, there is also certified Walker TVs.
The Info campaign must not talk about MPEG4, MHEG5 etc. There are TV/DVD combos that advertise MPEG4. Nothing to do with TV reception. PC file playback.
Almost no compatible TV mentions MHEG5 in shop adverts. All "Freeview" stuff does MHEG5 and most "Freeview" doesn't work (esp. set-box). But all "Freeview HD" does "work" including MHEG5.
Unfortunately given the small range of Models today the ONLY thing the Official Campaign can mention is Saorview certified compatibility.
The retailers told in 2008 to inform shoppers about DTT and label TVs correctly. The NSA, CAI and ASAI needs to take action.
If Retailers properly label stock and stop importing incompatible obsolete "dumped" product there is no problem.
See http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/for-retailers/
Is Powercity the best for info? Their little spec cards say if it has MHEG5 and also "Irish DTT compatible". Are you saying they shouldn't be displaying this piece of info on non-Walker TVs?Sponge Bob wrote: »Once RTE confirm that RTE HD will not be offered on SKY that will galvanise the market
This is a very good point. However, I am skeptical about the vast majority of people's knowledge of HD. I have experienced many saying "oh look I bought a HDTV now I have HD" when they are not using a HD cable or a HD source. However, it should definitely be made a selling point. You can get HD rugby on BBC but their commentating is crap. GAA in HD should appeal to many. There's a battle here to be had with Sky, they're out in every shopping centre selling HD boxes but are the sales people informing the consumer that they won't be getting RTE in HD?
This has always been a problem with technology in the sense that not everyone who "consumes" is tech-savvy. New technologies succeed primarily on the basis of convenience not purely because it's a new technology - how many went out and bought flat panel TVs because they were smaller and wall mountable vs. how many bought said TVs because of HD?
As a side note you can of course also get free HD channels in the form of ITV/STVHD and BBC HD free via freesat. This information should be made available imo.True, but that does rely on the reporter having a genuine knowledge of the topic :P
I think that Saorview have to be seen to promote the "Saorview Approved" hardware to keep credibility, but there are approved TV's which was not mentioned in the report according to the quotes above. I'm not saying that the report was completely accurate, but I think they were right to err on the side of simplicity rather than confuse things - we'll let the staff in the shops do that.
Will someone remember exactly what was said in the report? Not likely. The aim of a report like that is to make people go to the web-site or the local shop where the proper options will be outlined. Get people thinking about DSO - that's the real thrust of the report.
I do agree that "Saorview certified" is a must but why are MPEG4 compatible TVs not getting certified? Is Saorview too small to organise this? Are the retailers/distributors/manufacturers not interested? A combo of the above?Only Brazil used that spec I think, PAL N = 60Hz. PAL I = 50Hz
In the past there were fewer UK chains selling incompatible UK TVs (ones with no VHF) and more local TV shops (mostly gone in Cities).
There are HUGELY more variations with Digital than with Analogue. A Certification scheme is needed, especially since it's obvious the Major retailers (All UK chains + Harvey Norman also Foreign) are deliberately not labelling incompatible stock since 2008, ignoring Government direction and mis-informing the Public (The dishonest MPEG2 TV campaign).
MHEG5 isn't as optional as Teletext, nor just a Teletext replacement.
HE-AAC isn't optional.
There are a lot more nuances to get right with Digtial than Analogue. All "Freeview HD" sets (TVs and set-box) do more or less "work", far better than "generic" DVB-T MPEG4 HD stuff, but vary in total compatibility in some details.
Many totally unsuitable Set-boxes that don't actually work, sold in Ireland as Saorview or Irish Digital Compatible that turn out to not actually work http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/the-black-list/
Look at different issues with some Philips and Panasonic models with DVB-T, MPEG4, HD and MHEG5. Many Panasonic models definitely NOT compatible, even though MPEG4, MHEG5 and HD!
Also NO-ONE can say a box or TV is Saorview compatible without certification. They risk legal action.
No-one can claim a TV or Box is fully 100% Irish Digital Compatible (and won't have problems next year or whenever even if it seems to do all in the shop today) unless it meets the Saorview Spec. But without 3rd part test how do you know?
If you sell a TV or set-box or recorder as "fully 100% Irish Digital Compatible" today and it turns out that it is not in three years time, you as the seller are 100% liable for Damages under the "Sale of Goods" act. The Manufacturer isn't involved, unless you the Retailer can prove the Manufacturer misled you, then you have sue in civil case. No "Sale of Goods" act protection for Retailers for purchasers from Wholesale or Direct from manufacturer.
Saorview Certification protects the Retailer.
With regards to the Sale of Goods act (one of the best pieces of legislation of its type in recent decades) people are treated like stupid morons. Warranties offered that are not needed. Look at the scandal that happened with the current generation of video games consoles. The internet has shown people were ripped off sold goods that did not last and many have been duped into dealing with a manufacturer and paying for a repair when they are legally covered by the Act.I don't expect to ever see a sensible properly compatible Freesat HD + Saorview Combo PVR. The market will be too small once Saorsat is available.
The market is everyone currently paying for their + box. It makes little or no sense imo for someone to pay Sky or UPC a monthly bill when the majority of the channels they watch they could be watching for free - unless of course they really want all them channels with loads of adsplaying reruns, the useless movie channels, the kids channels or the documentary channels. If people were properly informed they would make the rational efficient decision ie. to ditch PayTV and use only Soarview + Freesat.
What happened to the idea competition was a good thing and produced the best results etc? If people believe in competition combined box should be out to compete with Murdoch/UPC.0 -
If people already have a TV all they have to do is do a "Digital Scan". Over 90%, probably in reality more decent coverage than Analogue.Butch Cassidy wrote: »As was mentioned the other last thing we want is people forking out €100 a box when they may have a TV capable of recieving Saorview anyway.
At the least people should be told that their TV may be capable of recieving these channels.
But not than many existing TVs. I'd say 2% to 10%, or much less than 1/3rd of TVs bought in last two years. The proportion would have been higher if the public had been informed as requested, but not enforced by Government, in March 2008.
There has been a deliberate policy to shift as much obsolete product in Ireland. Some models in major UK stores here obsolete over 2 years.
All Freeview TVs (even if Full HD) are obsolescent since December 2009 with launch of "Freeview HD" in UK. Savvey UK folk will only buy "Freeview HD" gear now, even if they are in an area that doesn't get "HD" till end 2012. All "Freeview HD" gear works with "Freeview" and better with "Saorview" than Generic stuff without MHEG5. It all does MPEG4, DVB-T (as well as DVB-T2) and MHEG5. The incompatibilities when they do exist are minor.
They should simply sayButch Cassidy wrote: »Is Powercity the best for info? Their little spec cards say if it has MHEG5 and also "Irish DTT compatible". Are you saying they shouldn't be displaying this piece of info on non-Walker TVs?
"Works with" or "Compatible With Irish Digital TV". They can't say Saorview unless it's Certified. If it doesn't have MHEG5, it's not compatible as MHEG5 is a mandatory part of spec.
Most importantly they should clearly identify which are also "Freeview HD" (for Border area users after 2012) and which are NOT compatible.
see http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/for-retailers/
MHEG5 is not just Text. It's an Application Engine for Over the Air Applications and data.Butch Cassidy wrote: »This is a very good point. However, I am skeptical about the vast majority of people's knowledge of HD. I have experienced many saying "oh look I bought a HDTV now I have HD" when they are not using a HD cable or a HD source. However, it should definitely be made a selling point. You can get HD rugby on BBC but their commentating is crap. GAA in HD should appeal to many. There's a battle here to be had with Sky, they're out in every shopping centre selling HD boxes but are the sales people informing the consumer that they won't be getting RTE in HD?
Sky and UPC will have RTE HD, when Sky want to have it. But it will be "later".Butch Cassidy wrote: »
I do agree that "Saorview certified" is a must but why are MPEG4 compatible TVs not getting certified? Is Saorview too small to organise this? Are the retailers/distributors/manufacturers not interested? A combo of the above?
It's purely up to Distributors, Manufacturers etc. You have to pay because Teracom is an expensive lab and it's time consuming. They don't just plug in an Aerial and flick through channels. It's very involved and doesn't even use a real aerial or off air transmission.
Only new models will get certified, that's why most manufacturers have waited till launch or just after launch. Apart from the doubt people had that Launch was real. No-one is going to pay for Certification of Models not actually getting made any more or due to be phased out.Butch Cassidy wrote: »
With regards to the Sale of Goods act (one of the best pieces of legislation of its type in recent decades) people are treated like stupid morons. Warranties offered that are not needed. Look at the scandal that happened with the current generation of video games consoles. The internet has shown people were ripped off sold goods that did not last and many have been duped into dealing with a manufacturer and paying for a repair when they are legally covered by the Act.
Absolutely... and as for the Rip off of "insurance" that two leading UK retailers urge you to buy.
Butch Cassidy wrote: »
The market is everyone currently paying for their + box. It makes little or no sense imo for someone to pay Sky or UPC a monthly bill when the majority of the channels they watch they could be watching for free - unless of course they really want all them channels with loads of adsplaying reruns, the useless movie channels, the kids channels or the documentary channels. If people were properly informed they would make the rational efficient decision ie. to ditch PayTV and use only Soarview + Freesat.
What happened to the idea competition was a good thing and produced the best results etc? If people believe in competition combined box should be out to compete with Murdoch/UPC.
The doctrine of Competition helping consumer is false. Companies and Consumers are only Rational, not Super Rational. Google "Prisoner's Dilemma" and "Game Theory". Nothing to do with Games or Prisoners.
You need "regulation" and enforcement of it as well as Competition.
ASAI, CAI and NSA are pretty useless on Consumer Electronics and Tech claims
"Mobile Broadband" Doesn't exist, It's Mobile Internet.
"Digital Aerials" Don't exist
"Super quality RJ11 Modem cables" at €30. Two Euro Cat3 RJ11 cord no different. There is 100m to 5km of very cheap Cat3 cable between you and exchange.
"digital" Earphones
Gold on SCART, yet the wires are not coax for the video and audio. Just a cheap bundle of wires.
HDMI cables are almost as as cheap to make as USB or Cat5e Network patch cord and 1/5th of cost to make as cheap SCART.
Gold must be on both halves, plug and socket or the Gold and Irish Damp will cause damage to non-gold parts.
Fake Warranties and Insurance that are irrelevant.
Non returnable items, even in Sale can be returned if defective. Even underwear.0 -
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Did you all notice a particular brand of a set top box during the news report? Maybe they just forgot or are a bit confused or clueless perhaps? 
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
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