Looking to upgrade my graphics card.

sampras

Ok so i've had a Dell Inpsiron 530 for a few years now and i would like to upgrade the graphics card to mainly play minecraft and some other games.
The current graphics are the on board Intel G31/G33 chipset.
Its an Intel core 2 duo E4300 with 4gb ram and windows 7. A pic of the PSU spec is attached.
Thanks in advance.

Jonny7

sampras wrote: »

Ok so i've had a Dell Inpsiron 530 for a few years now and i would like to upgrade the graphics card to mainly play minecraft and some other games.
The current graphics are the on board Intel G31/G33 chipset.
Its an Intel core 2 duo E4300 with 4gb ram and windows 7. A pic of the PSU spec is attached.
Thanks in advance.

V weak PSU

would advise only the ATI 4670 for now

draws v little power but is strong enough to run games quite well

Its small and compact and doesn't require a power cable. They go for 60 euro new or 30 euro second hand on ebay.

Overheal

id reccomend a new PSU which is its own project. You'll likely be nearing, possibly exceeding that unit's outputs which won't do it's life expectancy any favors.

marco_polo

Overheal wrote: »

id reccomend a new PSU which is its own project. You'll likely be nearing, possibly exceeding that unit's outputs which won't do it's life expectancy any favors.

The PSU should be alright as although it has only an 18amp 12V rail the E4500 is a 65W TDp CPU and a HD4670 /5670 roughly the same (59/64W TDP). So even with both at full tilt they couldn't possibly be pulling more than 11 amps between them (in theory, in practice the real power draw would probably be less again).

I would get a HD5670 over the 4670 as it has a decent performance bump on the 4670 and shouldn't be more that about 15 quid more if you shop around.

Solitaire

Both the E4500 (~40W) and the HD5670 (usually <30W) come in well under their TDP ratings in real life, the HD4670 not so much (~50W).

sampras

I think i'm limited to a PCI bus and not a PCI-E bus which i think most of the cards mentioned are. And i don't think they are backwards compatible!

marco_polo

sampras wrote: »

I think i'm limited to a PCI bus and not a PCI-E bus which i think most of the cards mentioned are. And i don't think they are backwards compatible!

I think you are good to go all models listed here appear to have a PCIe X16 slot, to completely reassure yourself though maybe pop open the case for a look to be absolutely certain.

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/inspd530/en/om/html/appendix.htm#wp1052310

Solitaire wrote: »

Both the E4500 (~40W) and the HD5670 (usually <30W) come in well under their TDP ratings in real life, the HD4670 not so much (~50W).

Wow quite a drop off, I was thinking real usage would be only a few (<10) watts under the TDP.

Solitaire

They get a lot closer using torture (not stress) tests, such as OCCT for GPUs and LinPack/IBT for Intel CPUs.

sampras

Cheers marco took a look inside again just be safe.
Would the power consumption differ between the 512mb and 1gb cards?
And would this be the right one to buy? http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfull.asp?productcode=MMEM310872

marco_polo

sampras wrote: »

Cheers marco took a look inside again just be safe.
Would the power consumption differ between the 512mb and 1gb cards?
And would this be the right one to buy? http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfull.asp?productcode=MMEM310872

1 Gb wouldn't really make a signifigant difference to power usage, however where it does make an impact is on your wallet for no real gains.

The additional memory really only boosts the performance of more powerful cards ( roughly from @ HD5770 level upwards) when playing at 1080p and higher resolutions. The HD5670 is just not powerful enough to utilise more than 512Mb so i'd stick with that version tbh.

On that note I'd pickup the 512MB Sapphire from amazon instead, it comes to close on 70 euros after allowing for the exchange rate and Irish vat, plus I'm nearly certain it qualifies for free shipping to here as well (Most UK super saver delivery items also have free shiping to Ireland in my experience). Presuming the delivery is indeed free it the best price I can find from a quick look around.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SAPPHIRE-HD5670-512MB-Express-Graphic/dp/B0032W414O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300322778&sr=8-1keywords=HD5670

sampras

Looks good man thanks for the link! I'm sure i can stretch to the €70 or so quid to get it!

Jonny7

Oi Solitaire! - the 4670 does pull less power

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_5670_1_GB/28.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_5670_IceQ/26.html

juuuuuust barely though - wow 5670 is very good actually

Sgt Pepper 64

marco_polo wrote: »

The PSU should be alright as although it has only an 18amp 12V rail the E4500 is a 65W TDp CPU and a HD4670 /5670 roughly the same (59/64W TDP). So even with both at full tilt they couldn't possibly be pulling more than 11 amps between them (in theory, in practice the real power draw would probably be less again).

I would get a HD5670 over the 4670 as it has a decent performance bump on the 4670 and shouldn't be more that about 15 quid more if you shop around.

Is the GT240 not the equivalent of the HD5670? They have that on Amazon for £45

marco_polo

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Is the GT240 not the equivalent of the HD5670? They have that on Amazon for £45

Slap bang in between the 4670 and 5670 I would say, good spot though at that price the GT 240 would be a worthy purchase.

Solitaire

Slightly more energy-hungry too

Sgt Pepper 64

marco_polo wrote: »

Slap bang in between the 4670 and 5670 I would say, good spot though at that price the GT 240 would be a worthy purchase.

Actually at that price, I might get one myself or the HD5670.
I've been looking to replace my power hungry 8800GTS (320mb) with something more modern and hopefully quieter.
Not really a gamer anymore since the little critters came along!
I wonder how cheap they are from Irish sellers?

Solitaire

The HD5670 uses less power (and typically generates less heat and noise) than an 8800GTS but it isn't much faster. If you want a performance boost go for a cheap HD5750 or even HD5770, they're both pretty frugal and a lot stronger in the performance department, without being much more expensive than a HD5670.

Sgt Pepper 64

Solitaire wrote: »

The HD5670 uses less power (and typically generates less heat and noise) than an 8800GTS but it isn't much faster. If you want a performance boost go for a cheap HD5750 or even HD5770, they're both pretty frugal and a lot stronger in the performance department, without being much more expensive than a HD5670.

Oh you never actually NEED performance. You just have to have it!

Thanks, Amazon have the 5770 for £95
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-EAH5770-CuCore-2DI-1GD5/dp/B002ZGJAXA/ref=sr_1_10?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1300905169&sr=1-10

and the 5750 for £91
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sapphire-HD5750-VAPOR-X-Graphics-Card/dp/B002VDHSP4/ref=sr_1_5?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1300905169&sr=1-5


but then they also have a GT460 1GB for £140

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palit-SONIC-nVIDIA-Geforce-Graphics/dp/B003VJW0WS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300904927&sr=8-1

See what I'm doing here, talking myself into a shiny GT460 when a HD5670 at half the price would "do"?! :eek:

Solitaire

Bit of a price jump, and a colossal jump in power consumption. The HD5750 is the last of the really frugal cards, and the GTX460 uses tons more than the GTS450 (which uses a fair bit more than the HD5770 according to most reviews)

Sgt Pepper 64

Solitaire wrote: »

Bit of a price jump, and a colossal jump in power consumption. The HD5750 is the last of the really frugal cards, and the GTX460 uses tons more than the GTS450 (which uses a fair bit more than the HD5770 according to most reviews)

HD5770 it is then, should do for a couple of years. Is there much of a difference between manfacturer's versions?
Or is there something new on the horizon thats worth waiting for?

Solitaire

Not really, if you can find it really cheap the Vapor-X version runs cooler and quieter, its not a card with tons of OC headroom so there are few pre-OCd premium variants out there. AFAIK AMD aren't replacing it until the HD7750/7770, the HD67*0 are OEM-only parts based on the same GPU as the old HD5770. Given that the GTS550 hasn't been out long and nVidia just continues to rehash the 8800GTX's performance niche over and over and over again in stock GTS*50 cards (although the GTS550Ti is closer to the old GTX260 and HD4870) I don't see any great revelations in the €80-120 segment for a long time to come

Sgt Pepper 64

Solitaire wrote: »

Not really, if you can find it really cheap the Vapor-X version runs cooler and quieter, its not a card with tons of OC headroom so there are few pre-OCd premium variants out there. AFAIK AMD aren't replacing it until the HD7750/7770, the HD67*0 are OEM-only parts based on the same GPU as the old HD5770. Given that the GTS550 hasn't been out long and nVidia just continues to rehash the 8800GTX's performance niche over and over and over again in stock GTS*50 cards (although the GTS550Ti is closer to the old GTX260 and HD4870) I don't see any great revelations in the €80-120 segment for a long time to come

Thanks for your help
one final question (hopefully)
Is there much difference between the 1GB version and this 512mb version? Amazon wont ship that one to Ireland

http://www.komplett.ie/Komplett/product/ZKB_01COM/10_GRPCARD/04_PCI-E/productdetails/15589169/Sapphire_RADEON_HD_5770_512_MB_DVI_HDMI/11163_07_20R/default.aspx

Vapor X is a tenner more but they will deliver to Ireland works out as 126 euro

Solitaire

The 512MB version is the tiniest bit more frugal and often a little cheaper but the smaller framebuffer causes considerable performance drops in more demanding games at 1080p and/or when trying to use AA/AF at 1080p (Full HD) resolution. If you're not running that high a resolution and have no intention of upgrading feel free to get the cheaper one, but in most cases the 1GB is either better or at least a better future-proofing option

marco_polo

Jez this thread sure moved on fast, you'll be ordering a pair of GT590s for SLI by the weekend if this pace keeps up

Also Pixmania have had a decent deal on a regular 1Gb Saphire 5770 for quite some time, works out at about 117 including shipping

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/9069641/art/sapphire-technology/radeon-hd-5770-1-gb-gddr5.html

Sgt Pepper 64

marco_polo wrote: »

Jez this thread sure moved on fast, you'll be ordering a pair of GT590s for SLI by the weekend if this pace keeps up

Also Pixmania have had a decent deal on a regular 1Gb Saphire 5770 for quite some time, works out at about 117 including shipping

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/9069641/art/sapphire-technology/radeon-hd-5770-1-gb-gddr5.html

Looks like that deal is back on, but cheaper - works out 114 including shipping
Might go for this instead of the Vapour, its supposed to be pretty quiet and cool anyway

And amazingly it looks like I can get 60 - 70 euro back on my 8800 GTS.

The MSI one that sold is my exact model

http://www.adverts.ie/hardware/msi-geforce-8800-gts-oc-edition/510644#comments

And 30 for my 6800! Pays for itself almost!

OMG, I have just ordered it, thanks Marco and Solitaire.
Now I need to get a decent monitor to show it off (Ashamed to say I'm still on a 17" CRT!), so expect lots of questions about size etc

sampras

OK lads bought the XFX Radeon HD5670 but i have problems. I cant get windows 7 to recognize the new card. When i connect the dvi cable to my monitor form the card the screen doesnt detect anything and goes into "energy saver mode". I know it recognizes it in the BIOS because when i have a cable connected to both the onboard and pci card it says "unsupported graphics configuration. And it tells me to reboot with only one cable attached. I have tried installing the drivers for the new card and uninstalling the ones for the onboard but no luck! Any help would be appreciated.

game4it70

Have you tried disabling the onboard in the bios?

sampras

If i disable the onboard, will i still be able to use the screen if disabling it is not the problem?

game4it70

sampras wrote: »

If i disable the onboard, will i still be able to use the screen if disabling it is not the problem?

Go into bios on disable it save and shut down then install new gpu.If that doesn't work and you have any probs just reset cmos on the mobo and that will turn the onboard back on.

Jonny7

sampras wrote: »

OK lads bought the XFX Radeon HD5670 but i have problems. I cant get windows 7 to recognize the new card. When i connect the dvi cable to my monitor form the card the screen doesnt detect anything and goes into "energy saver mode". I know it recognizes it in the BIOS because when i have a cable connected to both the onboard and pci card it says "unsupported graphics configuration. And it tells me to reboot with only one cable attached. I have tried installing the drivers for the new card and uninstalling the ones for the onboard but no luck! Any help would be appreciated.

Hey, some basics first - just in case...

when you put in the card, PRESS down firmly, until you feel it slot properly into place (many people think they are delicate and do not insert correctly)

Connect the power cable, the card needs power, make sure it is firmly in and powered

Switch on the PC with the side open and see if the fan spins on the graphics card

Obv if thats all done move onto the other troubleshooting
then move onto the more complicated trouble shooting

sampras

Ok so i disabled the onboard graphics card in device manager. Still no joy.
The card is seated properly and the fan is spinning. I'm lost as to what to do next.

marco_polo

sampras wrote: »

Ok so i disabled the onboard graphics card in device manager. Still no joy.
The card is seated properly and the fan is spinning. I'm lost as to what to do next.

Occasionally the bios can get a little muddled when new hardware is added, I would do a hard reset of the cmos like Jonny7 suggests (I usually remove the battery and short the "CLEAR CMOS" pins for about 15 seconds to be absolutly certain it is done).

The exact steps I would try first are.

1) Remove GPU and do hard reset of cmos (onboard GPU should now be reenabled).
2) Reconnect monitor to onboard, boot up and disable onboard again.
3) Power off and reinstall graphics card and reconnect monitor to new gpu.
4) Power on and hopefully all will now be ok.

sampras

Did all your steps marco but still no joy. Its still not showing up in the device manager. I'm having serious thoughts about returning it.