Church really on it's last legs

ScumLord

Had to go to a communion today for the brother but the Bishop did say something interesting. Apparently 25 priests died in my parish this year (old age and such nothing sinister) and only one priest was available to fill their positions. The kids even had to say a prayer that more of them would join the priesthood.

With numbers like that there's no way they can support the amount of churches they have and I really don't see any way young people would become priests in this day and age.

The Catholic church is doomed, no doubt about it.

CerebralCortex

ScumLord wrote: »

Had to go to a communion today for the brother but the Bishop did say something interesting. Apparently 25 priests died in my parish this year (old age and such nothing sinister) and only one priest was available to fill their positions. The kids even had to say a prayer that more of them would join the priesthood.

With numbers like that there's no way they can support the amount of churches they have and I really don't see any way young people would become priests in this day and age.

The Catholic church is doomed, no doubt about it.

I hope so, and the sooner the better.

Penn

The kids even had to say a prayer that more of them would join the priesthood.

Urgh.

Max Power1

Barrington wrote: »

The kids even had to say a prayer that more of them would join the priesthood.

Urgh.

+1 Urgh indeed


The sooner they all just die out (the religious people not the kids) Ireland will be a much better place.

who the fug

What was a bishop doing at a communion

Tin Foil Hat

I've been saying this for years. One generation from now masses will only take place in cities and large towns. There will be neither the staff nor the customers to justify local masses. A generation after that the catholic church will be a tent at a fairground next to the fortune teller.
I'm lloking forward to the day when my local church is converted into a strip club.

Tin Foil Hat

who the fug wrote: »

What was a bishop doing at a communion

Staff shortage

HavingCrack

ScumLord wrote: »

Had to go to a communion today for the brother but the Bishop did say something interesting. Apparently 25 priests died in my parish this year (old age and such nothing sinister) and only one priest was available to fill their positions. The kids even had to say a prayer that more of them would join the priesthood.

With numbers like that there's no way they can support the amount of churches they have and I really don't see any way young people would become priests in this day and age.

The Catholic church is doomed, no doubt about it.

The Catholic church might be doomed in Ireland and much of western Europe, Latin America, Australasia and to a lesser extent in North America but don't forget the rest of the world. The number of Catholics in Africa has tripled since the 1970 while some of the most 'traditional'/radical Catholicism can be found in East Asia. The Catholic church has grown by 90% in the last 10 years in South Korea which is a majority atheist country (a worrying development to be honest). The Catholic Church might be losing its grip on power in its old heartlands but its more than compensating elsewhere.

As the phrase goes 'they haven't gone away you know'.

ScumLord

who the fug wrote: »

What was a bishop doing at a communion

Wait, I may have made a mistake. It could be conformation. One of them anyway, shows how much attention I was paying to the proceeding.

HavingCrack wrote: »

The Catholic church might be doomed in Ireland and much of western Europe, Latin America, Australasia and to a lesser extent in North America but don't forget the rest of the world. The number of Catholics in Africa has tripled since the 1970 while some of the most 'traditional'/radical Catholicism can be found in East Asia. The Catholic church has grown by 90% in the last 10 years in South Korea which is a majority atheist country (a worrying development to be honest). The Catholic Church might be losing its grip on power in its old heartlands but its more than compensating elsewhere.

As the phrase goes 'they haven't gone away you know'.

In many ways these countries were under different oppressions. Christianity always appealed to the downtrodden and probably is a good thing for their societies stage of development. When and if they improve their economies and societies they may abandon the religion again like we've seen in so many western countries. I wouldn't be to worried at this stage.

Willbbz

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

I've been saying this for years. One generation from now masses will only take place in cities and large towns. There will be neither the staff nor the customers to justify local masses. A generation after that the catholic church will be a tent at a fairground next to the fortune teller.
I'm lloking forward to the day when my local church is converted into a strip club.

The generation after that they'll just be an online forum

littlejp

South Korea is a highly developed economy and has been for at least 10 years.

HavingCrack

ScumLord wrote: »

In many ways these countries were under different oppressions. Christianity always appealed to the downtrodden and probably is a good thing for their societies stage of development. When and if they improve their economies and societies they may abandon the religion again like we've seen in so many western countries. I wouldn't be to worried at this stage.

That's a long, long way down the line to be honest. A lot of states in Africa are probably centuries from reaching a stage of society similar to the west. As for South Korea, it's far wealthier and developed than Ireland is which makes you wonder why people are flocking to religion.

vicwatson

The Catholic church is doomed, no doubt about it.

Only themselves to blame, a church that excludes, as members, women, has no place in a progressive Ireland in my opinion. Priests that can marry would also make for a more "real" church in my opinion. Oh, and they need to revisit Vatican 2 also !

I suppose though, if they did all that, they'd be a different church right!?:):rolleyes: Maybe it's time they were a different church !

sensibleken

Yeah. Nothing sinister....riiiight

Quiet you

So the church is in decline here which is a welcome thing for most people under the age of fifty I'd imagine.

Does anyone know though about the numbers of people belonging to other religious groups that we might not often consider in here? Scientology, Islam, blah, blah, blah.

krudler

vicwatson wrote: »

Only themselves to blame, a church that excludes, as members, women, has no place in a progressive Ireland in my opinion. Priests that can marry would also make for a more "real" church in my opinion. Oh, and they need to revisit Vatican 2 also !

I suppose though, if they did all that, they'd be a different church right!?:):rolleyes: Maybe it's time they were a different church !

I dunno, there was no need for a sequel, more explosions, too much cgi, missing half the original cast, wasnt a fan.

Dades

Quiet you wrote: »

So the church is in decline here which is a welcome thing for most people under the age of fifty I'd imagine.

Does anyone know though about the numbers of people belonging to other religious groups that we might not often consider in here? Scientology, Islam, blah, blah, blah.

Well the other branches of Christianity seemed to be taking root here with the influx of non-nationals. Not sure if their growth rate will maintain though, now with the economy being screwed and the decline in immigration.

mikhail

Quiet you wrote: »

So the church is in decline here which is a welcome thing for most people under the age of fifty I'd imagine.

Does anyone know though about the numbers of people belonging to other religious groups that we might not often consider in here? Scientology, Islam, blah, blah, blah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Demographics

Dades

mikhail wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Demographics

Keep that handy to compare it to next month's census results...

mikhail

Dades wrote: »

Keep that handy to compare it to next month's census results...

I know a many people here have expressed high hopes for a big increase in the "no religion" category, but I expect a relatively small change.

Quiet you

mikhail wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Demographics

Much obliged.

Dades

mikhail wrote: »

I know a many people here have expressed high hopes for a big increase in the "no religion" category, but I expect a relatively small change.

*Mental note: create a public poll for people to give their predictions of the new "No religion" percentage... *

Quiet you

Dades wrote: »

Well the other branches of Christianity seemed to be taking root here with the influx of non-nationals. Not sure if their growth rate will maintain though, now with the economy being screwed and the decline in immigration.

That had crossed my mind alright. I was worrying that some even more stifling group would take a foot hold and start forcing the state to alter its decisions to accomodate them but a quick look at that demographics chart has shown my fears to be unfounded. For the next decade or so anyway.

smcgiff

Dades wrote: »

*Mental note: create a public poll for people to give their predictions of the new "No religion" percentage... *

There wont be much of a change - and you know it - see your own signature. The people filling out the census are of a generation that will not be representative of the populace in general.

liamw

Tin Foil Hat

mikhail wrote: »

I know a many people here have expressed high hopes for a big increase in the "no religion" category, but I expect a relatively small change.

In 2006 more that 250,000 people (more that 6% of the population) replied 'no religion' or left the question blank.
I predict that these numbers will rise to 350,000-400,000 this time around. That would be an increase of 40-60% in five years. Quite impressive really.

Zillah

ScumLord wrote: »

Had to go to a communion today for the brother but the Bishop did say something interesting. Apparently 25 priests died in my parish this year (old age and such nothing sinister) and only one priest was available to fill their positions. The kids even had to say a prayer that more of them would join the priesthood.

With numbers like that there's no way they can support the amount of churches they have and I really don't see any way young people would become priests in this day and age.

The Catholic church is doomed, no doubt about it.

*steeples fingers*

Good, good.

My dream of having a gothic night club inside a former church comes one step closer.

Galvasean

smcgiff wrote: »

There wont be much of a change - and you know it - see your own signature. The people filling out the census are of a generation that will not be representative of the populace in general.

I'd expect the Catholic percentage to fall more than the non-religious to grow TBH. I'd much rather live in a country that described itself as being 80% non descript Christian than 80% Catholic.

vicwatson

I dunno, there was no need for a sequel, more explosions, too much cgi, missing half the original cast, wasnt a fan

:D

Paparazzo

mikhail wrote: »

I know a many people here have expressed high hopes for a big increase in the "no religion" category, but I expect a relatively small change.

Too many people just tick the catholic box without even thinking. I warned my ma about doing it this time!

aidan24326

ScumLord wrote: »

Had to go to a communion today for the brother but the Bishop did say something interesting. Apparently 25 priests died in my parish this year (old age and such nothing sinister) and only one priest was available to fill their positions. The kids even had to say a prayer that more of them would join the priesthood.

With numbers like that there's no way they can support the amount of churches they have and I really don't see any way young people would become priests in this day and age.

The Catholic church is doomed, no doubt about it.

25 in one parish? Are you sure?

Maybe it was 25 in one diocese? 25 in the same parish in the same year seems like an awful lot.

Lack of priests is already becoming a problem for them though, and it will only get worse. There are rural parishes that have already lost their weekly mass due to lack of a priest.

Removing the celibacy/no marriage rule would surely help, but of course that requires change, and the RC Church have always been incredibly resistant to change.

Dave!

If it does continue to decline like this, it'll be in no small way due to their stubbornness. Stuff like allowing female priests, and priests to marry, would attract loads more preachers, and would change the dynamics alot.

charlemont

Slán...:)

virmilitaris

littlejp wrote: »

South Korea is a highly developed economy and has been for at least 10 years.

The economy is. The society isn't. Remember its not that long ago that SK was a dictatorship. Superstition is still widespread and incurs into everyday life constantly. Dog meat is good for stamina, ginseng is the cure for everything from colds to cancer and people won't marry a partner if they have a particular bloodtype.

The economy is thriving but its been extremely rapid growth from a largely agricultural caste-like society to an economic powerhouse. It'll take more time for them to throw away their old superstitutions and even longer to throw away the new ones.

Shenshen

ScumLord wrote: »

Had to go to a communion today for the brother but the Bishop did say something interesting. Apparently 25 priests died in my parish this year (old age and such nothing sinister) and only one priest was available to fill their positions. The kids even had to say a prayer that more of them would join the priesthood.

With numbers like that there's no way they can support the amount of churches they have and I really don't see any way young people would become priests in this day and age.

The Catholic church is doomed, no doubt about it.

I wouldn't get my hopes up, they'll just import them from other countries. And call them "missionaries", probably.

Mark Hamill

virmilitaris wrote: »

The economy is. The society isn't. Remember its not that long ago that SK was a dictatorship. Superstition is still widespread and incurs into everyday life constantly. Dog meat is good for stamina, ginseng is the cure for everything from colds to cancer and people won't marry a partner if they have a particular bloodtype.

The economy is thriving but its been extremely rapid growth from a largely agricultural caste-like society to an economic powerhouse. It'll take more time for them to throw away their old superstitutions and even longer to throw away the new ones.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that a lot of the big universities require you to be a member of the church in order to enrol (and if you dont come from a big university, you will have a hard time getting a job). I cant remember where I read though (could have been a blog or a post on this website), does anyone know if there is any truth to it?

ScumLord

aidan24326 wrote: »

25 in one parish? Are you sure?

Maybe it was 25 in one diocese? 25 in the same parish in the same year seems like an awful lot.

I was pretty sure he said parish but I could be wrong. I know our priest has to do 3 or 4 masses in nearby towns and all the times are offset by 15 minutes to allow him to get from town to town. It's a big enough parish and every little town in the area has it's own church, even ones that would only have one shop and pub (crossroads type town).

robindch

virmilitaris wrote: »

The economy is. The society isn't. Remember its not that long ago that SK was a dictatorship. Superstition is still widespread and incurs into everyday life constantly. [...] It'll take more time for them to throw away their old superstitutions and even longer to throw away the new ones.

Never been to South Korea except for ten minutes in the DMZ, but it always struck me as a place which was scarily like the DPRK with its incessant hero-worship and deeply authoritarian power structures.

Tin Foil Hat

Dave! wrote: »

If it does continue to decline like this, it'll be in no small way due to their stubbornness. Stuff like allowing female priests, and priests to marry, would attract loads more preachers, and would change the dynamics alot.

I've never bought this. Although I've often heard women say that they wish there were women priests, I never got the impression that these women wanted to volunteer for the job themselves. Ditto for married folk.
At the moment there are virtually zero single men volunteering for the priesthood. If the criteria for the job was relaxed, I cannot see the number of priests increasing by more than a handful.

Dave!

I dunno, being a priest isn't a bad gig if you're able to have a family at the same time... assuming you buy into all the sh*t, that is. I'd say one of the main reasons why it's so unappealing is because you have to commit to a terribly lonely life.

I'd say if the CC embraced the kind of model in existance in most of the Protestant churches in the States, then they'd have a better chance of surviving.

Blackhorse Slim

Dave! wrote: »

I dunno, being a priest isn't a bad gig if you're able to have a family at the same time... assuming you buy into all the sh*t, that is. I'd say one of the main reasons why it's so unappealing is because you have to commit to a terribly lonely life.

I'd say being a priest would be a decent gig even if you didn't buy into all the **** - in this coming time of high unemployment it could be very attractive as a career, if it wasn't for the whole celibacy thing. Wouldn't be for me, but still, just saying...

Tin Foil Hat

Dave! wrote: »

I dunno, being a priest isn't a bad gig if you're able to have a family at the same time... assuming you buy into all the sh*t, that is. I'd say one of the main reasons why it's so unappealing is because you have to commit to a terribly lonely life.

I'd say if the CC embraced the kind of model in existance in most of the Protestant churches in the States, then they'd have a better chance of surviving.

In this day and age, that's a massive assumption.
In any case, it's a sh!t gig - long hours, low pay, and a bunch of whinging auld ones. It's just not something people want to do anymore. I can't see that changing any time soon. Not that it matters - one generation and the pews will be empty.

Dave!

Well yeah, my generation has no time for the church, the next one will regard it as some quaint relic of a bygone era. But the CC's lack of imagination and creative ineptitude only compounds the problem, and will hasten their decline. If they want to extend their existance a bit longer, then thinking outside the box would be a good shout.

Tin Foil Hat

The cc's lack of imagination and creative ineptitude is a handy scapegoat for the crappy numbers. The cc could pull up to the front door of any secondary school in the country with a wheelbarrow filled with whores and fivers and they still couldn't recruit the amount of new recruits required to even begin to delay the imminent death of the catholic church in Ireland.

Dave!

Alright boss......

mikemac

It wasn't 25 priests in one parish, must have been diocese

As for the Church dying well I remember reading an article years ago predicting all this
But the end of it was once Ireland sent priests to Africa. If there is a shortage in Ireland and there is well lets bring in priests from Africa and South America where there is growth
Payback is the wrong word and I'm not sure what is the correct word.

They are welcome to practice in Ireland anyway

Galvasean

I wonder how the aul biddies would take to being preached at by a black man from Africa?
Serious question. A lot of elderly people (the Church's largest demograph) are seriously backward in relation to racism.

mikemac

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

In this day and age, that's a massive assumption.
In any case, it's a sh!t gig - long hours, low pay, and a bunch of whinging auld ones. It's just not something people want to do anymore. I can't see that changing any time soon. Not that it matters - one generation and the pews will be empty.

Don't forget the wedding couples who spend thousands and thousands on hotels and honeymoons but expect you, the priest to be at their beck and call and will freak if you ask for a contribution for church expenses.

Never mind the 2k deposit to the hotel, the contribution to the church is what they complain over. Probably start a thread on boards full of outrage :rolleyes:

Tin Foil Hat

feelingstressed wrote: »

Don't forget the wedding couples who spend thousands and thousands on hotels and honeymoons but expect you, the priest to be at their beck and call and will freak if you ask for a contribution for church expenses.

Never mind the 2k deposit to the hotel, the contribution to the church is what they complain over. Probably start a thread on boards full of outrage :rolleyes:

Most church weddings are obnoxious posing.
If the catholic church had any respect for itself it would refuse to entertain these people. The fact that it accommodates them is a tell tale sign of how it likes to pretend that it actually matters to us.
I have some friends who come from a Jehovah's Witness background. If you don't obey their rules, you are out of the club.

panda100

I wonder If more people join the priesthood in recessionary times? It will be within the next ten years that RC priests will be allowed marry, and then I think you'll see a significant increase in the numbers becoming priests.

panda100

panda100 wrote: »

I wonder If more people join the priesthood in recessionary times? It will be within the next ten years that RC priests will be allowed marry, and then I think you'll see a significant increase in the numbers becoming priests.

you what