Iarnrod Eireann Happy Train Traffic Nearly 40% Down

KevR

yer man! wrote: »

All i know is that the Oranmore station needs to be opened ASAP, planning is approved and it should start any week now. I know IF irishrail makes a combined parking + train ticket from oranmore to galway that's cheaper than the bus which is €5 return then it would work very well as this station will only be served by the WRC train from limerick. Obviously the timetabling would have to suit but Irishrail did mention how they were going to introduce a commuter service to make use of the oranmore station and athenry through to limerick more effectively. Also this line is getting two new 22000's soon which hopefully will increase the speed on it.

They need to cut the prices from Athenry also. €11 for a day return is crazy!

It's beyond me how anyone could justify stopping a Dublin-Galway train in Woodlawn or Attymon and not in Oranmore...

Transportuser09

I fully agree re-doubling of the Athenry-Galway section should become a priority once funding is there. I believe Tuam-Athenry has potential but to realise this to the max then re-doubling Athenry to Galway needs to go ahead.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not overly worried about the numbers not being fantastic at the moment. With better timetabling there is some potential for numbers to increase in the future, it is a foundation on which to build that came at a lower cost than a brand new alignment, which let's face it would never have happened. The fact that the bus is faster is not alone a reason to declare the line a failure - there are other routes in this country where this is the case.

I have to say though that Claremorris-Tuam should not go ahead (and no doubt won't), I see little economic potential here at all. But Tuam-Athenry does have potential (commuter) provided it can be sensibly pathed into Galway city. In fact it probably has more potential than Ennis-Limerick.

KevR wrote: »

It's beyond me how anyone could justify stopping a Dublin-Galway train in Woodlawn or Attymon and not in Oranmore...

I suppose it's so as not to slow down the Dublin train, as the station can be served by the WRC just as easily (Attymon has no other option). I presume Oranmore passengers could change at Athenry for stations towards Dublin, the same way on the Northern Line passengers between Connolly and Drogheda change at the latter for stations north of there.

I am not saying it's right or wrong but I think that's the logic behind it.

Sponge Bob

From Leos briefing as a new minister.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71472804&postcount=4

It is quite obvious that Oranmore and Crusheen stations are not mentioned but Athenry Tuam is

Western Rail Corridor Phase 2 - Athenry to Tuam
The Department has received an application for funding from Iarnrod Eireann for the detailed
design and tender preparation stage for Phase 2 of the WRC. This is unlikely to be funded
during the Plan period. The exact timeframe for when the project will move to construction has
yet to be determined and will be influenced by the performance of phase 1, the business case
for Phase 2 and the availability of funds.[/QUOTE]

dermo88

Seaslacker:

I quote 18-03-2011, 16:30 -

Western Rail Corridor discussion in Commuting & Transport. Mind boggling the years and years of cliquey BS they put into it, they hate it soooooooo much. Look for the super-long locked thread..

Its a long thread because of the very nature of it being an infrastructure project. These tend to have a long lead time from proposal to construction to implementation.

As for the facebook page, its there because of the inability of moderators of certain websites to accept mature reasoned debate.

Now, yes - to an extent the debate did get emotive. Thats because of the selective treatment of the detractors as DW Commuter hinted at, with alleged harrassment of the Platform11 committee at the time.

If anyone here wants to see how crazy and twisted the advocates of the Western Rail Corridor are, private message me. I have a few e-mails that can demonstrate this, and I can put names to them also. Other posters here WILL back me up on this. Its all transparent, and yes its on facebook.

The project, by its failure has endangered future projects of far greater potential by its failure. Anyway, thats enough said for now. I have better things to do. I have a life.

OurLadyofKnock

Sponge Bob wrote: »

From Leos briefing as a new minister.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71472804&postcount=4

It is quite obvious that Oranmore and Crusheen stations are not mentioned but Athenry Tuam is

Western Rail Corridor Phase 2 - Athenry to Tuam
The Department has received an application for funding from Iarnrod Eireann for the detailed
design and tender preparation stage for Phase 2 of the WRC. This is unlikely to be funded
during the Plan period. The exact timeframe for when the project will move to construction has
yet to be determined and will be influenced by the performance of phase 1, the business case
for Phase 2 and the availability of funds.[/QUOTE]

Game, set and match.

yer man!

This line may rely heavily on the new oranmore station being opened and a commuter service starting between galway and athenry, serving oranmore too. I'm speculating that these trains will also be used to continue on down the corridor to try and fill it as much as possible. At present it takes 60 minutes to drive from oranmore to the galway train station at 8 o'clock in the morning, where the train would take 5-7mins. The bus takes a very long time too as there simply isn't space for enough bus corridors. Train is the fastest option. Plus Irishrail said they'll be allowing people to bring bicycles on board for free from oranmore and athenry which would be a huge advantage for many students like myself.

OurLadyofKnock

yer man! wrote: »

This line may rely heavily on the new oranmore station being opened and a commuter service starting between galway and athenry, serving oranmore too.

The people behind the Western Rail Coridor had no interest in this. They wanted a new line for some priest in Mayo to remind him of the good old days when train loads of pilgims decended upon Knock.

They never wanted anything meaningful.

corktina

yer man! wrote: »

This line may rely heavily on the new oranmore station being opened and a commuter service starting between galway and athenry, serving oranmore too. I'm speculating that these trains will also be used to continue on down the corridor to try and fill it as much as possible. At present it takes 60 minutes to drive from oranmore to the galway train station at 8 o'clock in the morning, where the train would take 5-7mins. The bus takes a very long time too as there simply isn't space for enough bus corridors. Train is the fastest option. Plus Irishrail said they'll be allowing people to bring bicycles on board for free from oranmore and athenry which would be a huge advantage for many students like myself.

this point has been made before...the train is only a quicker option if you happen to be going where IT is going.

Aard

Oranmore Station + Galway Bikes = WRC win :P


Seriously, though, Ennis-Athenry is installed at this stage so short of decomissioning the thing again, something should be done to make it more attractive. I doubt continuing to drastically subsidise trips is worthwhile in the long term. Considering that Ardrahan has a population of less than 400, I think it'd make equal sense to have some stations in Galway City itself. The route passes some areas which would be more populous than Ardrahan. I'm thinking of:
- Ballyloughaun Road: would serve highly populated area (going from the number of houses on Google Maps, at least 1,500 in a 10-minute walk's radius), GMIT less than 15 mins away, beach nearby
- Doughiska Road: residential, again relatively high population.
- Oranmore

The advantage of these areas is that they're a lot more likely to make a spur of the moment trip into Galway, whereas further out you'd have to plan it for the day. As well, a stop near GMIT would give a whole segment of people a real reason to take the train. Just having a Galway-Athenry route doesn't give that many people a reason to use it. The fact is that the train is passing a ready-made market already, just these people don't have a station to board at. They would already have greater ties to Galway than those in Athenry.


Anyway, just some thoughts. It can't be too expensive to build three utilitarian stations. If it means more passengers and less subsidy, then why not?

OurLadyofKnock

Aard wrote: »

Oranmore Station + Galway Bikes = WRC win :P

This right here should of be WRC Phase 1.

Sponge Bob

yer man! wrote: »

station at 8 o'clock in the morning, where the train would take 5-7mins. Train is the fastest option.

Treu, and there will be no bypass either.

Plus Irishrail said they'll be allowing people to bring bicycles on board for free from oranmore and athenry which would be a huge advantage for many students like myself.

Can we have a standing room only carriage for these students and their bicycles so

yer man!

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Treu, and there will be no bypass either.

Can we have a standing room only carriage for these students and their bicycles so

Well they said people will have to stand away from the seats with there bikes for the duration of their journey, meh doesn't bother me anyway, i think it would be handy.

yer man!

Assuming that the Galway port development goes ahead within the next few years, do you think WRC may make a profit as a freight line if it was organized properly and was efficient. They have plans to double track the new port to connect into the main Galway - Dublin line. If this port was to go ahead it would benefit transatlantic freighters to dock in Galway and use the rail and/or road network. The Galway harbour company really do want to encourage the use of rail freight as it is cheaper and more environmentally friendly. Many companies around Galway and surrounding counties currently load up containers and are driven to Dublin port for export. There are no rail freight services available in Galway as of now.

corktina

how many is many? to operate a trainservice of this nature you would need at least one trainload a day and even then waiting for loading and unloading would cause delays to the exports which might not be acceptable to many complaies.
What Freight would you invisage going via the WRC? Surely it would be cheaper to use the port at Limerick or Cork or waterford (etc) rather than rail containers from Galway

rainbowdash

Aren't we also getting a European transhipment hub down in Kerry on the Shannon estuary that will be rail connected?:rolleyes:

I'd be more worried about maintaining the few bits of port connected railheads that are left than developing more.

If Irish Rail can't get freight moving through their own port, Rosslare, I don't fancy the prospects for everywhere else.

Sponge Bob

rainbowdash wrote: »

Aren't we also getting a European transhipment hub down in Kerry on the Shannon estuary that will be rail connected?:rolleyes:

Really ?? I take it that you are referring to the atlantic way initiative which even has a CEO appointed. It appears to be the Atlantic Technology Corridor in redux ...and minus a Bertie speech.

Oh WAIT!

antoobrien

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

This right here should of be WRC Phase 1.

While the line looks nice on a map, it isn't worth a curse as a commuter line because it's too far away from gmit & the businesses it's supposed to be serving and as usual the plans ignore the fact that we have a lot of people commuting across the Corrib to get to work. At 700m from the rail line gmit is borderline - the business park I work in runs buses to the local dart station people will stand around for 15 minutes rather than walk 500m (despite the fact that walking is usually quicker).

The proposed Ballyloughane stop (nearest the city) is a 15 minute walk from GMIT and not particularly accessible by foot to the local houses as the rail line is a (small) distance short of the houses and all the traffic (foot/cycle/vehcile) basically has to go 'round the corner' (meaning at least 400 yards) to get to it. Sounds short but people in Dublin won't walk 500 yards to a dart.

The reason the dart works is because the businesses are readily available i.e. 10 minute or less walking distance from the stations, this line is far from this.
for this reason I can't see many people using that to get to the likes of Thermo King or the factories in the Mervue industrial estate for example, and so this plan is unrealistic and fanciful.

Wild Bill

QUOTE=Sponge Bob;71180757]The original Times article was carried last thursday

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0310/1224291779125.html

However the shortfall is nothing like the Nenagh - Limerick shortfall

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0326/rail.html

Down 75% . :eek:

[/QUOTE]


So, Bob, you reckon the Ennis-Athenry should be scrapped but not as scrapped as Nenagh-Limerick?

KevR

antoobrien wrote: »

While the line looks nice on a map, it isn't worth a curse as a commuter line because it's too far away from gmit & the businesses it's supposed to be serving and as usual the plans ignore the fact that we have a lot of people commuting across the Corrib to get to work. At 700m from the rail line gmit is borderline - the business park I work in runs buses to the local dart station people will stand around for 15 minutes rather than walk 500m (despite the fact that walking is usually quicker).

The proposed Ballyloughane stop (nearest the city) is a 15 minute walk from GMIT and not particularly accessible by foot to the local houses as the rail line is a (small) distance short of the houses and all the traffic (foot/cycle/vehcile) basically has to go 'round the corner' (meaning at least 400 yards) to get to it. Sounds short but people in Dublin won't walk 500 yards to a dart.

The reason the dart works is because the businesses are readily available i.e. 10 minute or less walking distance from the stations, this line is far from this.
for this reason I can't see many people using that to get to the likes of Thermo King or the factories in the Mervue industrial estate for example, and so this plan is unrealistic and fanciful.

I do wish Oranmore station was more central to the town and business park. My only hope is that because there is a lot of space around the planned station (which is a bit outside the town), this space could be used for high density development in future. Galway County Council need to point blank stop any further development to the South of Oranmore for the next few decades and make sure development is focused around the railway station.

I don't see any reason not to build a station to serve Renmore/GMIT. The line is already there and Limerick/Commuter trains are already passing through with spare capacity. I can't imagine that it would take 15 mins to walk from the station to GMIT, I would say more like 10 mins. Galway-Limerick trains are a lot slower than the bus so stopping in Renmore and adding a couple of extra mins to the journey is not going to see the train shedding inter-city passengers. I think a stop in Renmore would actually make Galway-Limerick trains a little more viable.

Aard

Just as you say about Oranmore, having a station for Renmore/GMIT would stimulate that area too. The trains are passing anyway; I can't imagine adding two minutes extra to the journey for the stop would be all that bad, considering the potential benefit.

Wild Bill

[/QUOTE]

Folks
The €100 million (and how much in annual subsidies) for the crazed Ennis - Galway line could have (certainly if managed by anyone other than Irish Rail) built the stations and tracking above - out to Athenry.

People like Platform 11 have made that point for the past 10 years (or whatever).

The WRC corridor has the advantage of being emotively supported by a weird coalition of rustics, "Save the West" type politicians and clerics, train-spotters and demented Greenies. As well as the trendy D4 Irish Times types.

Against this collection of braindeads, what chance has suburban rail in Galway got?

Galway is a rapidly expanding city and is thus anathema to all of the above. Us Dubs are, like, soooooo familiar with that syndrome. :cool:

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

I don't see any reason not to build a station to serve Renmore/GMIT. The line is already there and Limerick/Commuter trains are already passing through with spare capacity. I can't imagine that it would take 15 mins to walk from the station to GMIT, I would say more like 10 mins. Galway-Limerick trains are a lot slower than the bus so stopping in Renmore and adding a couple of extra mins to the journey is not going to see the train shedding inter-city passengers. I think a stop in Renmore would actually make Galway-Limerick trains a little more viable.

I invite you to go down there and walk it then.

I'll give a very good reason why it's too far - people won't walk this distance. Why do I think this? I see it every day in Dublin - hell two of my housemates won't walk 10 minutes to a Dart that brings them within 15 minutes walk of either workplace. One drives and the other gets a bus that takes a minimum 20 minutes more (worse in traffic) because it's cheaper.

KevR

antoobrien wrote: »

I invite you to go down there and walk it then.

I'll give a very good reason why it's too far - people won't walk this distance. Why do I think this? I see it every day in Dublin - hell two of my housemates won't walk 10 minutes to a Dart that brings them within 15 minutes walk of either workplace. One drives and the other gets a bus that takes a minimum 20 minutes more (worse in traffic) because it's cheaper.

If I lived in Athenry for example and was going to college in GMIT, I would have no problems whatsoever walking from a train station located there. Parking in GMIT is supposedly a nightmare and it is highly likely that you will have been stuck in some horrendous traffic before even making it to the GMIT campus.
(I would only take the train if it was affordable though)

I walked to college (25 mins) everyday for 5 years. I had a car and I could have driven into NUIG everyday in under 5 mins but I never bothered because you could spend anything from 20 to 40 mins driving around looking for a parking space. If at all possible, people generally avoided driving to NUIG because driving was so much hassle. I have heard that GMIT has similar parking problems but I have never experienced it myself.