Pastor of Worlds largest church says earthquake was gods warning.

virmilitaris

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/467934.html

The Sunday edition of the Internet newspaper News Mission reported Yoido Full Gospel Church senior pastor David Yonggi Cho as saying, “The earthquake makes me wonder if this was not God’s warning.”

In an interview the newspaper, Cho responded to a request for comments on Japan’s difficulties following its largest earthquake in recorded history by saying, “Japan sees a lot of earthquakes, and I think it is regrettable that there has been such an enormous loss of property and life due to the earthquake.” He went on to say, “Because the Japanese people shun God in terms of their faith and follow idol worship, atheism, and materialism, it makes me wonder if this was not God’s warning to them.”

“I hope that this catastrophe can be turned into a blessing and they take this opportunity to return to the Lord,” he added.

Cho also said, “We in Korea look at Japan and think that at this juncture, more than a physical earthquake, it is in need of a holy spiritual earthquake.”

Cho plans to depart for Japan on Monday to participate in an assembly on Tuesday and Wednesday to celebrate the 34th anniversary of the founding of its Japan branch, the Full Gospel Tokyo Church.

Internet users have issued harsh words of criticism toward Cho’s statements. A user identified as “Pine0007” wrote, “A religious leader should not be linking the massive earthquake in neighborhood Japan with issues of religion and idols.” Another user identified as “Nicesuhchung” wrote, “He should not be doing this.”

Meanwhile, Gyeonggi Province Governor Kim Moon-soo provoked displeasure from Internet users by writing on his Twitter page Sunday that “More than 2,500 people are dead or missing and over 10 thousand out of contact due to the major earthquake in Japan. A nuclear power plant is exploding. I thank God and our ancestors for keeping the Korean Peninsula so safe.”

This guy controls a congregation of over 1,000,000 and a church the size of a football stadium to preach his hate and sickness.

I really thought that people like this were dying out. How can any decent human being come out with such comments ? It disgusts and angers me so much that people like this can get away with this and people will still follow him.

I hope that all people, non-religious and otherwise, condemn this sick little man.

dead one

virmilitaris wrote: »

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/467934.html



This guy controls a congregation of over 1,000,000 and a church the size of a football stadium to preach his hate and sickness.

I really thought that people like this were dying out. How can any decent human being come out with such comments ? It disgusts and angers me so much that people like this can get away with this and people will still follow him.

I hope that all people, non-religious and otherwise, condemn this sick little man.

Such comments are necessary for existence of church, i mean to control people with fear. It is natural, many people are governed by fear.

nshina106

Where do I Know about Earthquake warning in my country, Indonesia. 3 days ago some said there will be earthquake in my city,

nshina106

How long does a presidential campaign last, from becoming a candidate to the election.

Improbable

dead one wrote: »

Such comments are necessary for existence of church, i mean to control people with fear. It is natural, many people are governed by fear.

Doesn't make it right or acceptable.

dead one

Improbable wrote: »

Doesn't make it right or acceptable.

You don't say, The statement is very clear showing what is right and wrong. Choose what is acceptable.

MagicMarker

dead one wrote: »

You don't say, The statement is very clear showing what is right and wrong. Choose what is acceptable.

It is?

dead one

MagicMarker wrote: »

It is?

What is it?, Show the wisdom so i can read what's in your mind.

Count Duckula

The scariest thing is that he's not even saying that out of malice; he genuinely believes it with every fibre of his being.

Terrifying.

dead one

bluewolf wrote: »

I have plenty of reason to argue but from this point anything I would say would probably get me banned.

I hope one day you see more sense :rolleyes:

As a believer of reason you are afraid, As a believer of Religion i m not. What the sense you are talking about comrade. Why there is fear of Reason in your mind.

I hope one day you will get rid of fear of reason :rolleyes:

dead one

dead one wrote: »

As a believer of reason you are afraid, As a believer of Religion i m not. What the sense you are talking about comrade. Why there is fear of Reason in your mind.

I hope one day you will get rid of fear of reason :rolleyes:

As a believer of reason I should get rid of not using reason?
okay then
I also have a religion myself which I've told you already, but don't let that get in the way of your smug ranting :rolleyes:

Count Duckula

dead one wrote: »

As a believer of reason you are afraid, As a believer of Religion i m not. What the sense you are talking about comrade. Why there is fear of Reason in your mind.

I hope one day you will get rid of fear of reason :rolleyes:

This makes literally no sense whatsoever.

Dades

Off topic posts deleted... let's focus on one deplorable belief at a time.

The other thread is still (currently) open.

virmilitaris

The most blaring point here is that this guy is not some small time nutjob like fred phelps. He has over 1 million people in his congregation alone not counting other branches of his fhurch elsewhere. He actually has a branch in Tokyo and plans to go there this week.

Its not much of a stretch to call this guy and his church mainstream. That's the most disturbing thing about this. Mainstream churches have associations with this guy and foreign pastors have even showed admiration of him and his church.

Will they now condemn him ?

PDN

virmilitaris wrote: »

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/467934.html



This guy controls a congregation of over 1,000,000 and a church the size of a football stadium to preach his hate and sickness.

I really thought that people like this were dying out. How can any decent human being come out with such comments ? It disgusts and angers me so much that people like this can get away with this and people will still follow him.

I hope that all people, non-religious and otherwise, condemn this sick little man.

His church has issued a statement regretting the remarks, which they said were 'misinterpreted' and that he only intended to offer condolences.

It was a pretty dumb thing to say. I've put my foot in it in the past and said something dumb when a newspaper reporter phones you up without warning and asks you for a comment on something. But Cho should be old enough and media savvy enough to see how his words would be interpreted.

So, a preacher said something dumb. Not that uncommon and hardly a hanging offence.

As for condemning him as "a sick little man" - I will leave that to those with a bigger chip on their shoulder.

Zombrex

virmilitaris wrote: »

It disgusts and angers me so much that people like this can get away with this and people will still follow him.

Meh, welcome to human nature.

Part of religion is the inherent notion in humans of agency in nature. It is easier for people to interpret natural events like this in terms of someone doing something for some reason. Easier in terms of mental processing, our brains are largely for human to human interaction, we use these evolved skill in processing the chaotic world of nature simply because the energy required to develop a whole new set of brain functions to deal with nature would not be worth it from an evolutionary point of view.

It is not at all surprising then that people see the actions of some invisible agent in natural events like the Japanese Earthquake. That is far easier for the human mind to process than a chaotic (in the sense of predictable only at a massive scale) process like plate tectonics.

mcmoustache

God seems to hate the Bible Belt as well. Sending them extreme weather every year, you'd think that they'd be wondering if maybe they picked the wrong God. Or maybe God punishes that area because there are gays in the military. Bah...

This is nonsense and I know it. I often wonder if those daft preachers are aware that they are talking shíte or do they actually believe it.

magicbastarder

mcmoustache wrote: »

God seems to hate the Bible Belt as well. Sending them extreme weather every year, you'd think that they'd be wondering if maybe they picked the wrong God. Or maybe God punishes that area because there are gays in the military. Bah...

you are failing to allow for the differences in the target audience here.
god sends natural disasters to christians to test them.
god sends natural disasters to non-christian theists to warn them.
god sends natural disasters to gays, forniicators and welsh people to punish them.

virmilitaris

PDN wrote: »

His church has issued a statement regretting the remarks, which they said were 'misinterpreted' and that he only intended to offer condolences.

I don't see how this; “But it also comes to my mind that the earthquake could be a warning from God to Japan, which has become an increasingly material-centric, secular and idol-worshiping country. From a religious point of view, the Japanese people have lost a great deal of faith in God over the years,” he said.

Can be interpreted any other way.

It was a pretty dumb thing to say. I've put my foot in it in the past and said something dumb when a newspaper reporter phones you up without warning and asks you for a comment on something. But Cho should be old enough and media savvy enough to see how his words would be interpreted.

I don't know you but I would hope you wouldn't call the people of another country idol worshipers and blame a devastating earthquake that has probably killed tens of thousands of people on their lack of faith in God.

So, a preacher said something dumb. Not that uncommon and hardly a hanging offence.

As for condemning him as "a sick little man" - I will leave that to those with a bigger chip on their shoulder.

How can you defend these comments ? The SOB lives next door to Japan and has a church in Tokyo. The counting has barely begun on the bodies when he blames the Japanese peoples lack of faith for this disaster.

This is as evil a thing as is possible to say.

Zombrex

mcmoustache wrote: »

This is nonsense and I know it. I often wonder if those daft preachers are aware that they are talking shíte or do they actually believe it.

They believe it, for the reasons I outlined above. The vast majority of humans process 'nature' in terms of agency, it is just the way are built. Even the notion of 'mother nature' is part and parcel of this. Even the most hardened atheist catches themselves doing this once and a while, a friend of mine commonly says 'Why does the universe hate me!' when ever something goes wrong, the rationally knows the universe doesn't care either way but the instinct is so inbuilt in us to think like this that it comes out even if you know reality isn't like this.

PDN

virmilitaris wrote: »

How can you defend these comments ? The SOB lives next door to Japan and has a church in Tokyo. The counting has barely begun on the bodies when he blames the Japanese peoples lack of faith for this disaster.

This is as evil a thing as is possible to say.

I didn't defend any comments. :rolleyes:

I've already said that I think he said something dumb in saying that he wondered whether something was true or not.


<mod snip> If someone believes posters are using dual accounts then either report it or deal with it themselves. <snip>

virmilitaris

PDN wrote: »

I didn't defend any comments. :rolleyes:

I've already said that I think he said something dumb in saying that he wondered whether something was true or not.

So it was just "dumb" in your opinion ? I wonder how the people in Japan feel about that. I wonder how it would make you feel if you had lost someone.

<mod snip> If someone believes posters are using dual accounts then either report it or deal with it themselves. <snip>

What ?

PDN

virmilitaris wrote: »

So it was just "dumb" in your opinion ? I wonder how the people in Japan feel about that. I wonder how it would make you feel if you had lost someone.

People can often be very hurt by dumb comments. That does not, however, make the person who talks nonsense 'evil'.

Galvasean

It saddens me just how quick religious nuts are to take credit for such trajedies in the name of their God.

cosmicfart

if this was gods warning then he really is gearing up to punish the rest of us heathens in 2012

--amadeus--

Some whackjob on YouTube says it so they must be a troll. The leader of a vast church says it so it must be a dumb mistake.

Why is it so hard for the religious to accept that not only are such beliefs compatible with the bible they are widely held by modern christians?

mikhail

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Some whackjob on YouTube says it so they must be a troll...

In fairness, she did just come out as a troll.

Count Duckula

Committing atrocities against people en masse, causing great destruction and killing thousands, all in the name of religion.

Is God a terrorist?

JBnaglfar

Count Duckula wrote: »

Committing atrocities against people en masse, causing great destruction and killing thousands, all in the name of religion.

Is God a terrorist?

Well, as far as I know, God killed over 2 million people according to the bible. Satan killed 10 (not 10 million, just 10).

virmilitaris

PDN wrote: »

People can often be very hurt by dumb comments. That does not, however, make the person who talks nonsense 'evil'.

Not if they are christian apparently. As long as what you are saying is in support of a religious delusion anything is ok. I really didn't expect any decent person to be an apologetic for this but again the religious have lowered the bar.

People offtimes say you shouldn't judge a religion by the actions and words of its extremists. Well I'm not I'm judging it by all its adherents. You just showed us why moderate religion should be fought as hard as extremism. Moderate religion is simply a stepping stone and an apologetic for extremism.

How lauguable it is when the relgious claim moral superiority. Noone with any morals worth a damn would defend such vile comments against other human being if they weren't religious.

--amadeus--

mikhail wrote: »

In fairness, she did just come out as a troll.

That one individual has but there are any number of other loonies who are genuine. Glen Beck for example, who apparently had the 3rd most listened to show in the US and is a ratings heavy hitter for Fox News.

This kind of attitude is neither extreme or fundamentalist. After all didn't the priest who took it on himself to invade the Cork airport crash say something along the lines of it was a great day for the victims? The only time they crawl back from such repulsive positions is when thier words are quoted outside thier own circles at which stage they were speaking under pressure / made a silly mistake / don't speak for teh mainstream, etc.

PDN

virmilitaris wrote: »

Not if they are christian apparently. As long as what you are saying is in support of a religious delusion anything is ok. I really didn't expect any decent person to be an apologetic for this but again the religious have lowered the bar.

People offtimes say you shouldn't judge a religion by the actions and words of its extremists. Well I'm not I'm judging it by all its adherents. You just showed us why moderate religion should be fought as hard as extremism. Moderate religion is simply a stepping stone and an apologetic for extremism.

How lauguable it is when the relgious claim moral superiority. Noone with any morals worth a damn would defend such vile comments against other human being if they weren't religious.

Sigh, I didn't defend his comments. I said they were really dumb. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry that I appear to have offended you by not sharing in your pretended outrage and labelling the guy as 'evil'. I'm a bit too old to start acting like a hysterical schoolgirl.

PDN

--amadeus-- wrote: »

That one individual has but there are any number of other loonies who are genuine. Glen Beck for example, who apparently had the 3rd most listened to show in the US and is a ratings heavy hitter for Fox News.

I thought it was a given on this forum that Mormons believe crazy stuff anyway?

sponsoredwalk

Honestly I don't know why this is worth a thread, especially since this is so
common amongst Christians, yet Jewish Rabbi's who recently called for
"Palestinians to the Ovens!", or a Finnish Priest recently calling for the murder
of journalists, which are both far worse than the maybe/beat-around-the-bush
comments of this fcuker don't even get a mention.

That priest has every right to speak his mind as it's an opinion that does
not call for murder etc... However the comments that openly call for
murder (if not genocide) receive no mention for some reason. I think there
are more important things than giving religious loonballs who propagate
hate the attention they so sorely need, but that's just me.

sponsoredwalk

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Honestly I don't know why this is worth a thread, especially since this is so
common amongst Christians, yet Jewish Rabbi's who recently called for
"Palestinians to the Ovens!", or a Finnish Priest recently calling for the murder
of journalists, which are both far worse than the maybe/beat-around-the-bush
comments of this fcuker don't even get a mention.

That priest has every right to speak his mind as it's an opinion that does
not call for murder etc... However the comments that openly call for
murder (if not genocide) receive no mention for some reason. I think there
are more important things than giving religious loonballs who propagate
hate the attention they so sorely need, but that's just me.

rabbis did what :eek:

robindch

PDN wrote: »

I thought it was a given on this forum that Mormons believe crazy stuff anyway?

I'm sure it's something that both forums fully agree on!

JimiTime

virmilitaris wrote: »

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/467934.html



This guy controls a congregation of over 1,000,000 and a church the size of a football stadium to preach his hate and sickness.

I really thought that people like this were dying out. How can any decent human being come out with such comments ? It disgusts and angers me so much that people like this can get away with this and people will still follow him.

I hope that all people, non-religious and otherwise, condemn this sick little man.

Can't believe your knickers are in such a twist about this. You class him a 'sick little man' for this?

I suspect feigned outrage from you of course, but I see nothing here other than a lack of wisdom, a lack of tact and a poor knowledge of God in this context.

I really don't see the need for the hysterics.

virmilitaris

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Honestly I don't know why this is worth a thread, especially since this is so
common amongst Christians, yet Jewish Rabbi's who recently called for
"Palestinians to the Ovens!", or a Finnish Priest recently calling for the murder
of journalists, which are both far worse than the maybe/beat-around-the-bush
comments of this fcuker don't even get a mention.

Well isn't that exactly the problem ? Religious people of all persuasions come out with these disgusting comments and simply because we are so used to them they no longer are such a cause of controversy. They are becoming accepted practice.

I don't see this as a good thing.

mikhail

JimiTime wrote: »

...I suspect feigned outrage from you of course, but I see nothing here other than a lack of wisdom, a lack of tact and a poor knowledge of God in this context...

I think you're being rather over the top in your criticism of virmilitaris. Tens of thousands of people are dead, and this guy basically just said they had it coming. It was a cruel, stupid remark. While PDN argues that it was unthinking formula made at the spur of the moment, virmilitaris is arguing that this guy genuinely means it.

virmilitaris

PDN wrote: »

Sigh, I didn't defend his comments. I said they were really dumb. :rolleyes:

You downplayed his comments which is half a step away from defending them. George Galloway is infamous for this regarding the actions of muslim terrorists.

I'm sorry that I appear to have offended you by not sharing in your pretended outrage and labelling the guy as 'evil'. I'm a bit too old to start acting like a hysterical schoolgirl.

My pretended outrage ? Sir, I've lived in Japan for many years and I have many friends there as well as some family members. While I have thankfully heard from my relatives, I have not heard from some of my friends and whilst they live in Tokyo and southern Japan and are likely safe and well don't you dare talk to me like I am making up my outrage about these evil comments by this sick little man.

You may not have any compassion for the victims of this catastrophe but don't come on here telling others how they should feel.

virmilitaris

JimiTime wrote: »

Can't believe your knickers are in such a twist about this. You class him a 'sick little man' for this?

And how would you class him ? Out of curiosity have you any idea how the Japanese reacted to his comments ? Have you any idea how you would react if you lost some loved ones ?

You do understand that people have barely begun finding the bodies of their family and friends lying in cesspools of mud and wreckage don't you ?

PDN

virmilitaris wrote: »

You downplayed his comments which is half a step away from defending them. George Galloway is infamous for this regarding the actions of muslim terrorists.

"Half a step away"? What nonsense is that?

Maybe you would do better to address what people post rather than what you think their next "half-step" will be.

I've already said that Cho's comments were dumb. Perhaps, being Korean, he's been overly affected by the rather unpleasant Buddhist doctrine of karma.

You may not have any compassion for the victims of this catastrophe but don't come on here telling others how they should feel.

Sigh. Nothing I've said indicates any lack of compassion for people in Japan. I don't think you trying to exploit their misery to pursue your longstanding vendetta against Korean Christians demonstrates compassion either.

virmilitaris

PDN wrote: »

I've already said that Cho's comments were dumb. Perhaps, being Korean, he's been overly affected by the rather unpleasant Buddhist doctrine of karma.

Very likely so, Buddhism has damaged and continues to damage the society here and elsewhere.

It's no excuse for what what he said.

Sigh. Nothing I've said indicates any lack of compassion for people in Japan. I don't think you trying to exploit their misery to pursue your longstanding vendetta against Korean Christians demonstrates compassion either.

What are you ranting about ?

clever_name

PDN wrote: »

I've already said that Cho's comments were dumb. Perhaps, being Korean, he's been overly affected by the rather unpleasant Buddhist doctrine of karma.

I'm curious, could you expand on what it is you find so unpleasant about karma?

PDN wrote: »

Sigh. Nothing I've said indicates any lack of compassion for people in Japan.

I agree, your posts do not show any compassion at all, IMHO, that might be the problem.

PDN wrote: »

I thought it was a given on this forum that Mormons believe crazy stuff anyway?

PDN wrote: »

I've already said that Cho's comments were dumb. Perhaps, being Korean, he's been overly affected by the rather unpleasant Buddhist doctrine of karma.

So a Christians stupidity is because he is around Buddhists, I don't know if this is more insulting to Koreans or Buddhists.

PDN wrote: »

I don't think you trying to exploit their misery to pursue your longstanding vendetta against Korean Christians demonstrates compassion either.

Based on the posts I have read virmilitaris is not the first person I would say had a problem with other religions

Yes, what is so unpleasant about karma?
It certainly doesn't mean chance natural disasters were in any way "earned"


http://buddhism.about.com/b/2011/03/15/karma-and-japan.htm
http://sdhammika.blogspot.com/2011/03/tsunami-buddhist-view.html

PDN

clever_name wrote: »

I'm curious, could you expand on what it is you find so unpleasant about karma?

Funny how 'rather unpleasant' became 'so unpleasant' at some stage.

I find it rather unpleasant that human suffering and poverty in this world would be ascribed to people's past actions in previous existences. This causes the most miserable and oppressed people in the world to blame themselves for their circumstances

I agree, your posts do not show any compassion at all, IMHO, that might be the problem.

Neither did my posts show any knowledge of Pythagora's Theorem, the second Law of thermodynamics, or any other subject that they weren't addressing. My posts were adressing the dumb comments made by the pastor of a church in Korea.

Just because I don't start squealing that he is therefore evil implies nothing about my compassion or the lack of it.

Based on the posts I have read virmilitaris is not the first person I would say had a problem with other religions

I would say everybody has problems with one religion or another. But that does not excuse the shameless exploitation of other people's suffering to pursue an agenda.

JimiTime

virmilitaris wrote: »

And how would you class him ?

As a man I don't know, who unwisely and tactlessly said some things I don't believe to be true. When people aren't affected by certain things, they can be thoughless in how they talk about it etc. Think about the amount of jokes there are about paedophiles for instance. Now, child rape is one of the most disgusting things we can imagine, yet people who are certainly not 'sick little men' can tell make fun of such a horrid thing. This man may have been thinking aloud. It sounds like more of a 'I wonder if this is a judgement' type of thing. He should have thought about it more certainly. I certainly wouldn't be sending for the pitchforks though. Also, just to be clear, I wouldn't care if he was a hindu, muslim etc. I have no interest in defending him etc. I just think it obvious that you are overblowing things.

Out of curiosity have you any idea how the Japanese reacted to his comments?

No, but I don't suspect someones going to conduct a poll of the Japenese people about this, so we'll never know. I'm sure they have bigger things on their mind right now.

Have you any idea how you would react if you lost some loved ones ?

Yes I do. It would be of no consaquence to me, that some guy I never heard of said something stupid.

You do understand that people have barely begun finding the bodies of their family and friends lying in cesspools of mud and wreckage don't you ?

Yes I do, which has nothing to do with this guy being a 'sick litt;e man'.

virmilitaris

PDN wrote: »

I find it rather unpleasant that human suffering and poverty in this world would be ascribed to people's past actions in previous existences. This causes the most miserable and oppressed people in the world to blame themselves for their circumstances

Yet you find it perfectly acceptable for human suffering and poverty in this world to be ascribed to the actions of peoples ancestors who happened to eat an apple ?

I would say everybody has problems with one religion or another. But that does not excuse the shameless exploitation of other people's suffering to pursue an agenda.

An agenda ? Like defending the ravings of a sick little man just because he happens to believe in the same fairytale that you do ?

Would you have rode in on your horse defending him if it had been a Muslim or Hindu who made those comments ?

Could I ask that you please not try and degrade those of us who happen to sympathise with the plight affecting the people of Japan and who refuse to put up with religious bigotry.

Why don't you set up your own thread where you can demean any and everyone who dares suggest that Christians should be subject to the same criteria or morality as the rest of us.

The only one using these peoples suffering for their own agenda was that preacher.

JimiTime

virmilitaris wrote: »

Yet you find it perfectly acceptable for human suffering and poverty in this world to be ascribed to the actions of peoples ancestors who happened to eat an apple ?



An agenda ? Like defending the ravings of a sick little man just because he happens to believe in the same fairytale that you do ?

Would you have rode in on your horse defending him if it had been a Muslim or Hindu who made those comments ?

Could I ask that you please not try and degrade those of us who happen to sympathise with the plight affecting the people of Japan and who refuse to put up with religious bigotry.

Why don't you set up your own thread where you can demean any and everyone who dares suggest that Christians should be subject to the same criteria or morality as the rest of us.

The only one using these peoples suffering for their own agenda was that preacher.

What a ridiculous post. 'Look at me, I care soooo much about the plight in Japan.' Some of us have more class than to turn this awful event into some kind of selfish crusade.

clever_name

PDN wrote: »

I find it rather unpleasant that human suffering and poverty in this world would be ascribed to people's past actions in previous existences.

I'm not an expert but this is along the same line as original sin to me.

PDN wrote: »

This causes the most miserable and oppressed people in the world to blame themselves for their circumstances

So the most miserable people in the world are from one religion?

I have been lucky enough to travel to a few buddhist countries (and other religions too), I have also been lucky enough to meet lots of great people who are pretty much at the bottom of the heap when it comes to privelage in society, the last word I would use to describe them is miserable.

PDN wrote: »

Just because I don't start squealing that he is therefore evil implies nothing about my compassion or the lack of it.

Again IMHO showing no compassion in your posts can be read as having a lack of compassion.

This is not ment tooffend, just to say that virmilitaris is obviously emotional about this and by responding in a reasonable but compassionless manner may not make for the most constructive of arguments. Also calling him a troll wont help.

JimiTime

clever_name wrote: »

Again IMHO showing no compassion in your posts can be read as having a lack of compassion.

C'mon, lets cut the sh1te! does this really need to be argued.