Peashooting

MortgageMan

As a junior starting category into shooting sports zero recoil is ideal :-) but once you start to shoot real firearms the ability for personal recoil control really distinguises the good shooters. Instead of dressing up pea shooters these guys should try some proper competitive shooting with real firearms :-)


**** This was not the start of the thread, this was moved from another thread by Sparks. It may look like I am picking on or slagging off someone by the above, but if the posts before had been left it would make more sense **** 15/03/2011 8.56am

[mod edit]The original posts are still online in this thread, which was on a different subject and which wandered off-topic. No posts were changed when bringing them here.[/mod edit]

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

As a junior starting category into shooting sports zero recoil is ideal :-) but once you start to shoot real firearms the ability for personal recoil control really distinguises the good shooters. Instead of dressing up pea shooters these guys should try some proper competitive shooting with real firearms :-)

I'd love to see some of the lads who think we're pea shooters actually try our sport...


...especially since all the other examples of that happening I can remember ended up with severely chastened chaps coming off the firing line in mild disbelief to find they'd been beaten to the bottom third of the field by 12-year-old girls

sikastag

MortgageMan wrote: »

As a junior starting category into shooting sports zero recoil is ideal :-) but once you start to shoot real firearms the ability for personal recoil control really distinguises the good shooters. Instead of dressing up pea shooters these guys should try some proper competitive shooting with real firearms :-)

Really? :P

MortgageMan

I remember a group of total novices attending a comp in South Wicklow about 3 years ago. It was a recognised ISSF comp.

They turned up with none of the recognised expensive equipment an went on to win comp, the firearms used were bog standard rifles and pistols. These guys are still winning any comps that they enter whether it be the more challenging shooting comps or the easier handy lower calibre sport.

Practice makes perfect an sometimes you don't need all the bells and whistles, just a bit of talent.

Sparks

And I remember world champions from other disciplines trying "pea shooting" and never getting past the point that allmost all the novice college kids shooting in the colours this year got to (none of whom had ever seen a firearm eight months beforehand).

Yes, you don't need all the bells and whistles (looking at my kit close up would tell you that - it's ten years old and falling apart, all of it bar the bits that got replaced when they broke).
No, it's not a kiddies sport that adults move beyond. There's a reason that the top 300m 3P and 50m 3P shooters in ISSF still shoot air rifle actively and a reason that air pistol isn't abandoned when smallbore or fullbore pistol is also taken up.

I mean, if all your sport is, is recoil control, then why do you even need bullets?

MortgageMan

Mostly need bullets to participate in shooting sports :-) after all it is all about putting rounds down range into a target :-) sometimes people forget that. Sports shooting is all about putting a round accurately into your target whatever type of target it may be.

Eight months is a good training period, I have seen some excellent shooters come into the sport and make great scores, even win comps after this time period.

Hopefully Irish shooting sports can get back to where it was about 2 years ago before the licencing madness began. We could then start to pick up the pieces and try to get the real shooters and sports men back winning competitions in their chosen sports :-)

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Mostly need bullets to participate in shooting sports :-)

Or pellets

Sports shooting is all about putting a round accurately into your target whatever type of target it may be.

And whatever type of round it may be.

Eight months is a good training period, I have seen some excellent shooters come into the sport and make great scores, even win comps after this time period.

Indeed, but against world champions? That's somewhat unexpected.

BTW, I've just gone through all the smallbore matches on the NTSA's records from 2007 to 2009 and I can't find the match you mentioned in south wicklow above - can you remember more about where and when it was held?

Hopefully Irish shooting sports can get back to where it was about 2 years ago before the licencing madness began.

We'd have to go back ten years to get to the point before the madness started
But yes, we have seen way more effort put into legislation in the last decade than any sporting group should have to put in. I know it had to be done - I was there at the time - but there's no question our sport has suffered as a result of it, and with the economic depression now hitting home, we need more people to volunteer to help run the sport rather than the legislation lobbying.

It wasn't me!

Eight months is inaccurate. Try four. And this "real shooters" and "real sportsmen" bollocks is just that. People preach about there being some sort of divide in the sport which isn't their fault, then without even a trace of irony talk about "peashooters" with a sneer. Bloody ignorance. And recoil control might distinguish the good shooters in one discipline. It certainly won't make them stand out in anything I do. Good shooting fundamentals will.

MortgageMan

"We'd have to go back ten years to get to the point before the madness started
But yes, we have seen way more effort put into legislation in the last decade than any sporting group should have to put in. I know it had to be done - I was there at the time - but there's no question our sport has suffered as a result of it, and with the economic depression now hitting home, we need more people to volunteer to help run the sport rather than the legislation lobbying. "

Sparks I know you were there at the time, and if you feel that you were the cause of any of the problems then ok, "I was there at the time - but there's no question our sport has suffered as a result of it".

I have also shot with an against world champions and it is a great experience

Hi It Wasnt Me
"Eight months is inaccurate. Try four."

I for one never stop learning and training and I wasn't aware of people preaching about divides in shooting, I haven't been on boards for nearly 2 years.

It wasn't me!

MortgageMan wrote: »

Hi It Wasnt Me
"Eight months is inaccurate. Try four."

I for one never stop learning and training and I wasn't aware of people preaching about divides in shooting, I haven't been on boards for nearly 2 years.

I mean the students concerned have had about four months' training before they compete at their colours/intervarsities. This "peashooter" language is derogatory in nature and divisive. It needs to stop.

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks I know you were there at the time, and if you feel that you were the cause of any of the problems then ok,

Ha!
Yeah, I don't think that.
I'm not waiting on the phone call from the Nobel commission about my Prize, but I don't think I did bad work either.

I have also shot with an against world champions and it is a great experience

Did you win convincingly?

I wasn't aware of people preaching about divides in shooting, I haven't been on boards for nearly 2 years.

Funny that you came back with a bit of an oul' preach yourself so


BTW, I have been thinking about this peashooter thing and I've had a small idea...

Sparks

It wasn't me! wrote: »

This "peashooter" language is derogatory in nature and divisive. It needs to stop.

You know, I was thinking about that, and I reckon it's not such a bad thing really.

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

You know, I was thinking about that, and I reckon it's not such a bad thing really.

Nah, I really do hate it. I'll shoot airguns. I'll shoot smallbore guns. I'll shoot the biggest and meanest guns you can bring to the range, and I don't consider any more important or more "real" than any other. It pisses me off. It's no harm to embrace it, but the language is derogatory. I don't have any elitist leanings in that I don't look down on airgun shooters because I shoot primarily smallbore rifle or on hunters because I'm a target shooter (or on target shooters because I'm a hunter for that matter) or on anyone for what they shoot because I do something else. Everyone would like to see the status of the shooting sports universally raised in the broader national psyche, but it has to be universal. The idea that one sport would be raised above all others is bollocks. Yes, the Olympic stuff is going to get more attention (because it's the one that has all the TV coverage - that's the simple recipe) but that doesn't make it more important. The reason I dedicate my time to it is because I have the resources and I consider it a perfect challenge for me. That's not to say it would suit everyone, but it suits me. Long term, the event I'd best love to get into is an extremely small minority sport, marginalised almost out of existence and very much a side event in the ISSF calendar, the 300m standard rifle, so where do I come in?

MortgageMan

I have to agree with "It Wasnt Me"on this one, my first choice in shooting sports was also marginalised.

Sparks your idea of keeping the shooting sports Peashooter to a small elite group does not bode well with me. This has happened before to the detriment of the sport.

I think you should maybe consider opening up to other shooting disciplines as well.

It wasn't me!

MortgageMan wrote: »

I have to agree with "It Wasnt Me"on this one, my first choice in shooting sports was also marginalised.

Sparks your idea of keeping the shooting sports Peashooter to a small elite group does not bode well with me. This has happened before to the detriment of the sport.

I think you should maybe consider opening up to other shooting disciplines as well.

You're mistaken. Nothing to stop you making an award within your discipline for the ability to shoot a pea on command at a given distance either. Why look at the structure, awards and mechanisms for another discipline when determining what you do? There's a perverse irony that people spend so much time and energy looking at the ISSF disciplines rather than examining and running their own show.

MortgageMan

Didn't mean to upset you "It Wasn't Me", just commenting on Sparks proposal. It was directed to the last few posts and I believed was a proposal from him in relation to anybody from any discipline making the Peashooter commment.

But again I must agree with you and it is up to all disciplines to design their own comps, we are as they say "two peas in a pod" lol.

You could almost call us two " Pea Shooters " lol

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks your idea of keeping the shooting sports Peashooter to a small elite group does not bode well with me. This has happened before to the detriment of the sport.

*falls off chair laughing*

Feckin' typical. It's an insult for three or four years in here, and the moment someone mentions making it into a title given away for an achievement, we're told we're being elitist

I think you should maybe consider opening up to other shooting disciplines as well.

If you can hit a pea (or other 8mm diameter circular target) at 10 metres, offhand standing, no telescopic sights, ten times out of ten shots (can't be having flukes getting in now, can we? ) then go right ahead and call yourself a pea-shooter
(Expect to be called on it and asked to show your group size though )

I think if we open it up though, we'll have to talk about whether we mean 8mm edge-to-edge on our groups or 8mm centre-to-centre (I mean, if you need a bigger round to hit the target... )

MortgageMan

For me I just enjoy the fun of hitting the target that I am aiming for

but if you feel the need to bring in a full technical spec and set out international rules then so be it, but you may be seen as "elitist" again
remember us shooting folks are just simple guys who want to put holes in targets and not use too many big words lol

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

For me I just enjoy the fun of hitting the target that I am aiming for
but if you feel the need to bring in a full technical spec and set out international rules then so be it, but you may be seen as "elitist" again
remember us shooting folks are just simple guys who want to put holes in targets and not use too many big words lol

See, there's the thing. Us elitist folks prefer to just put in the one, albiet slightly-ragged-around-the-edges hole in our targets


(5 shots there @10m offhand air rifle, no shooting jacket, no shooting trousers)

MortgageMan

I would expect nothing less

I am not the type of guy who needs to bolster my self esteem with mementos of the glory days, so I haven't kept any targets from the past

I will get some new ones over the coming months, when I a shoot again and keep one for you, we can compare holes lol

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

I am not the type of guy who needs to bolster my self esteem with mementos of the glory days, so I haven't kept any targets from the past

*lol*
But you can remember a match held somewhere in South Wicklow three years ago?

I will get some new ones over the coming months, when I a shoot again and keep one for you, we can compare holes lol

Looking forward to it

MortgageMan

Unfortunately I remember the match for all the wrong reasons, it was the first of that discipline I had attended and the behaviour at it sickened me to the core. actually I looked back and the match was about 5 years ago, I am getting old and forgetful

It turned me off the discipline for ever and opened my eyes to some of the characters who were and are still involved in this sport hence I did not name the club or individuals, but they had a big hand in messing up the licencing for fullbore pistols :mad:

Anyway old days, now to the future where things can only get better

Hopefully the promises that were made by both Labour and Fine Gael representatives during the last licence lobbying will now come to the fore and they will keep to their word

BELOWaverageIQ

Jebus...... Talk about a thread going off topic!
And there was me anxiously awaiting more pics.

Where are the mods when you need them eh?:rolleyes:

MortgageMan

What has happened to the rest of his thread ? there was a lot of discussion that has disappeared?

Sparks

Fair point there IQ, thread split out onto it's own.

MM, I've looked back over the matches on the NTSA site from five years ago, and just in case, from four years ago and six years ago as well, and I *still* can't find any match where anyone in the top five or six places wasn't a well-known shooter who'd been training for some time with all the kit. The only place where we see "new names" is the 2005 National Standard Pistol Championships, where everyone was a new name because it was the first open nationals since, well, the 70s. And that was just a pistol match - there wasn't any rifle event.

Are you *sure* this was an NTSA match you're talking about here or was it just a club match held on a range under the ISSF rules (which isn't the same thing)?

Sparks

Over here MM...

MortgageMan

Why was the thread moved ? what was the reason ?

Sparks

As I just PM'd to you, Rule #3. If you read the thread, you'd have seen BelowAverageIQ's complaint. BTW, you might also read Rule #10 please.

That's the last post away from the topic on this thread please - in fact I'm moving these posts out of the IWA thread and over to the new thread.

BELOWaverageIQ

Sparks wrote: »

As I just PM'd to you, Rule #3. If you read the thread, you'd have seen BelowAverageIQ's complaint. BTW, you might also read Rule #10 please.

That's the last post away from the topic on this thread please - in fact I'm moving these posts out of the IWA thread and over to the new thread.

Oh chr1st Sparks I was only taking the Mick not complaining:D:D

MortgageMan

As I said Sparks it was in a South Wicklow club, the winners were not actually allowed to claim the win !! the club members there on the day said that the other club shooters didn't qualify to shoot the comp and so couldn't win :eek: even though they had the highest scores.

There was even mention that the shooters should have taken off their shoes as they weren't designated foot wear for the comp ??? they were wearing runners and working boots, but this was only said after he scores were taken as was the, you don't qualify statement ?

I don't want to continue with this as I had tried to forget it.

As I said it turned me off the club and the discipline totally !

So you are right you will not find the names on the winning sheet as they were not allowed on to it ! hope that clarifies your question.

Sparks

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

Oh chr1st Sparks I was only taking the Mick not complaining:D:D

Too late!

MortgageMan

As Below Average was not complaining could you move everything back to as it was ?

There is no other reason to move it, or is there ?

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

As I said Sparks it was in a South Wicklow club, the winners were not actually allowed to claim the win !! the club members there on the day said that the other club shooters didn't qualify to shoot the comp and so couldn't win :eek: even though they had the highest scores.

There was even mention that the shooters should have taken off their shoes as they weren't designated foot wear for the comp ??? they were wearing runners and working boots, but this was only said after he scores were taken as was the, you don't qualify statement ?

I don't want to continue with this as I had tried to forget it.

As I said it turned me off the club and the discipline totally !

So you are right you will not find the names on the winning sheet as they were not allowed on to it ! hope that clarifies your question.

No, it doesn't. In fact, now you've made even less sense. There is absolutely no rule whatsoever in the ISSF or NTSA rulebooks that would allow that kind of thing. Ordinary street or work boots are explicitly allowed in the ISSF rules so long as they don't break the rules set up for custom-made boots (ie, doc martins laced up so that your leg from the knee down is immobilised are out, but runners or ordinary work boots would be fine - I shoot air pistol in ordinary shoes all the time). The only time I have *ever* seen a footwear question really come up was at an air pistol shoot when a newbie pistol shooter shot air pistol in his first (and only, as it turned out) match in air rifle boots -- which, to be fair, is unfair as they look like this:



Now on the day, we said nothing as there wasn't much point - he was obviously coming in last anyway and why ruin his fun? But that's the only time I've heard of that happening, and if it was that long ago, I would have heard of it if it happened in an NTSA match because I was on the NTSA committee back then.

So I'm guessing you went to a club that was trying to run a club shoot to ISSF rules, but not an NTSA match, and they fluffed the rules very badly. I mean, if you're running a club shoot and have closed prizes for only the club members, that's got to be in the rules right up front, you can't drop that on people after they pay their entry fee and travel to the match and everything.

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

As Below Average was not complaining could you move everything back to as it was ?

There is no other reason to move it, or is there ?

Rule #3 was the reason. Odds are, one of the other mods would have pointed it out this evening if IQ hadn't. Besides, this thread's now more prominent on the forum - are you complaining that more people are reading what you posted?

Kryten

With all due respect for the NTSA, and indeed other NGBs, but nobody owns air pistol or rifle, standard pistol, practical pistol or any other discipline.
Any club can choose to run any event using official rules, or modified rules.
A club can shoot whatever discipine it likes, provided it's safe and the range is authorised and designed for it.
The NGB authority, if you could call it that, would only come into it when it is an official National championship, or international championship or a selection for an international competition.

It does not stop a club, say for example Hilltop, from challenging, for example, Harbour House, to a standard pistol match, modified to allow one to shoot one handed or two handed. Or WTSC from challenging ECSC to a benchrest rifle competition with ISSF 50 meter targets and target sights.

The possibilities are nearly endless. It would show a degree of unity in shooting. And we can still revert to or continue our Official rules competitions anyway. In fact it may get people interested in other disciplines, which they have never tried or even thought of trying.

There should be no obstacles to this really. If a shooter is competent with firearms, has insurance and his/ her licence, we should'nt worry about this affiliation stuff. A shooter should be able to try any discipline which takes their fancy and not worry about the type of footwear we have, and still be eligible for the prizes. The peashooting idea could be a starting point. You could open it up to .22 rifle as well as air rifle. It would still be a damn hard target.

Dusty87

Sparks wrote: »

I'd love to see some of the lads who think we're pea shooters actually try our sport...


...especially since all the other examples of that happening I can remember ended up with severely chastened chaps coming off the firing line in mild disbelief to find they'd been beaten to the bottom third of the field by 12-year-old girls

oooo sparks, touched a nerve did he

clivej

Zeroed in on the 5m line. And post #3000 for me

Sparks

Kryten wrote: »

With all due respect for the NTSA, and indeed other NGBs, but nobody owns air pistol or rifle, standard pistol, practical pistol or any other discipline.

With respect to you Kryten, you're late.
The NTSA has been saying that for years.

The reason I've mentioned the NTSA here is that the OP said "ISSF-sanctioned". That term only really applies to continental championships and above; all the other matches are NGB-sanctioned, so I assumed he just meant an NTSA match, because if the ISSF ran a World Cup in South Wicklow, I think we'd have noticed

The NGB authority, if you could call it that, would only come into it when it is an official National championship, or international championship or a selection for an international competition.

Yes, and also for doing things like maintaining national rankings, tallying scores and so forth.

It does not stop a club, say for example Hilltop, from challenging, for example, Harbour House, to a standard pistol match, modified to allow one to shoot one handed or two handed. Or WTSC from challenging ECSC to a benchrest rifle competition with ISSF 50 meter targets and target sights.

Nope, never has. That's why the NTSA's been pushing for clubs to do that for years, both on here and outside of here.

A shooter should be able to try any discipline which takes their fancy and not worry about the type of footwear we have, and still be eligible for the prizes.

Well, yes - so long as they follow the same rules as the others in the match. Wouldn't be fair, for example, for everyone else to have a 1kg trigger on their pistol and one guy to have a 100g trigger. But that caveat aside, yes, it's very common for clubs to do that and always has been. The DURC turkey shoot isn't exactly ISSF-standard, for example, and they've shot sporting rifle for years without being part of the NASRPC or the NSAI. Likewise for pretty much every club I know.

But what MM is talking about above is something else entirely - he's talking about an official sanctioned match (which I have to presume is an NTSA match from what he's said so far) which was run so unfairly as to turn him off the discipline for years. At that point, if someone or some group is bringing the sport into disrepute, what should the NGB for that sport do? Straight question, no agenda, what do you think an NGB should do in that situation?

The peashooting idea could be a starting point. You could open it up to .22 rifle as well as air rifle. It would still be a damn hard target.

I don't own it to open it up
The whole idea was meant to see what'd happen if we tried claiming back the insult of "peashooter" and I thought it'd just be seen as funny - I wasn't expecting that within a single post, people would go from treating it as the best insult ever to actually wanting to be called a peashooter
I'm now thinking airgun shooters ought to be all possessive of it. "Feck off and go get your own insult" and all that

MortgageMan

Sparks I said an ISSF comp, maybe you could update me as how this became a World Championship comp all of a sudden !

Are you saying that all ISSF comps in Ireland are of World Championship certification ? Can a club run an ISSF comp without World authorisation ?

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

.........The whole idea was meant to see what'd happen if we tried claiming back the insult of "peashooter" and I thought it'd just be seen as funny...........

Insult :rolleyes:

Get over yourself! you're taking it all way too seriously

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks I said an ISSF comp, maybe you could update me as how this became a World Championship comp all of a sudden !

From what you said above:

MortgageMan wrote: »

It was a recognised ISSF comp.

ISSF don't recognise any matches below the continental championships level because ISSF-recognised has a specific meaning that involves ISSF people showing up from head office to at a minimum oversee things if not run them outright, and it has specific requirements for the ranges and so forth. So it seemed obvious you didn't mean ISSF recognised, but NTSA recognised.

Can a club run an ISSF comp without World authorisation ?

A club can run a match to ISSF rules without asking anyone. But it won't be an ISSF-recognised match. And they don't have to talk to the NTSA either, but it can't be a recognised match (ie no national rankings, etc - which doesn't matter if you just want a club match for fun).

So either you went to a match run by a club for fun which had nothing to do with the NTSA or ISSF which just said it was run by the ISSF rulebook; or you went to an NTSA match. Which was it?

Spunk84

seriously Sparks grow a pair and get a proper rifle like a .308 pea shooting World Championship certification LOL

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

Insult :rolleyes:
Get over yourself! you're taking it all way too seriously

Says the guy who's just jealous he was only the second one to use the term

Sparks

Spunk84 wrote: »

seriously Sparks grow a pair and get a proper rifle like a .308 pea shooting World Championship certification LOL

But I already have a proper pistol!

MortgageMan

Sparks the comp was as ISSF comp, run under its rules whether or not is was a recognised World shoot I am not sure. As I said it was my first time to attend this type of comp and it was about 5 years ago.

It was not something I enjoyed as the way things were dictated to me and handled was very childish.

Your own actions here today were to try and belittle me and my knowledge of your sport, true I have no understanding of your type of shooting, it doesn't rock my boat or unshell my pea's

Is this site meant to be run on a democracy ? why do you feel the need to always try and prove yourself ? I mentioned before the self esteem issue, why stick up your score cards and why try to design new comps for Pea shooting ?

Am I missing something here ? is there something happening between the lines.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Says the guy who's just jealous he was only the second one to use the term

But now I've seen the light :P

MortgageMan

Sparks is that the pistol that you used to similate an IPSA shoot and post it on your blog. It was mentioned at quite a few meetings how it belittled the IPSA sport do you remember that ?

bunny shooter

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks is that the pistol that you used to similate an IPSA shoot and post it on your blog. It was mentioned at quite a few meetings how it belittled the IPSA sport do you remember that ?

:eek:

MM 1 0 Sparks

Spunk84

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks the comp was as ISSF comp, run under its rules whether or not is was a recognised World shoot I am not sure. As I said it was my first time to attend this type of comp and it was about 5 years ago.

It was not something I enjoyed as the way things were dictated to me and handled was very childish.

Your own actions here today were to try and belittle me and my knowledge of your sport, true I have no understanding of your type of shooting, it doesn't rock my boat or unshell my pea's

Is this site meant to be run on a democracy ? why do you feel the need to always try and prove yourself ? I mentioned before the self esteem issue, why stick up your score cards and why try to design new comps for Pea shooting ?

Am I missing something here ? is there something happening between the lines.

LOL hes the mod who thinks he`s a "GOD" :eek:

Hes right and your wrong as this has now become my boards song:rolleyes:

So now he will close the thread because of your reaction and guess what?

For having your say HE WILL ISSUE YOU AN INFRACTION:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D did i get it right LOL

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks the comp was as ISSF comp, run under its rules whether or not is was a recognised World shoot I am not sure. As I said it was my first time to attend this type of comp and it was about 5 years ago.

Yes, but you also said it put you off the discipline for ages. If you're going to say something like that, you ought to get the detail right as to whether this was an actual NTSA Open or just a few lads who misread the rulebook and acted the asshat on their own range.

Because if it was the latter, people thinking of trying it shouldn't pay much attention to your story, unpleasant as it was; and if it was the former, there'd be a record of it - hell, I might remember it myself if it was that far back because I might have been there at the time.

Your own actions here today were to try and belittle me and my knowledge of your sport, true I have no understanding of your type of shooting, it doesn't rock my boat or unshell my pea's

So I shouldn't ask you for details when you publicly say my sport runs unfair competitions and won't let people who shoot a higher score win if they're not part of the old boy's club?

why do you feel the need to always try and prove yourself ?

Prove?
Don't you mean defend?
And if you did mean defend, why do I always have to defend my sport in here, where we're all shooters together and nobody would ever dream of harming anyone else's sport for their own benefit?

Sparks

MortgageMan wrote: »

Sparks is that the pistol that you used to similate an IPSA shoot and post it on your blog. It was mentioned at quite a few meetings how it belittled the IPSA sport do you remember that ?

That's the one there MM. It's the one that the head of the IPSA thought was quite funny last time I spoke to him.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot you'd forgotten that I actually knew the IPSA people and helped them out as much as I was able to back then.

But here's the funny thing - if a big strapping IPSA shooter like yourself can't take a joke, why all the dishing out of jokes at other's expense? What's sauce for the goose...