Are we doing the right thing here?

LegacyUser

bit of backgroud first off ...:

Our son - recently turned 20 - left school last june, did do the leaving and got all in all good results. Enough to get him into a plc - but not enough for college. he got a place in a plc, doing exactly what he had been saying for the past two years that he wanted to do.

went for one day - got his timetable - and would not get out of the bed and go again. said we were pushing him into something he did not want to do.

so we said - fine - dont do that - do whatever you want. but dont do nothing. get a job, find another course, travel, whatever makes you happy is grand with us. but staying home and doing nothing was not in our opinion an option.

but his choice in life seems to be the bed. he is next to impossible to get out of the bed in the mornings. and when he does finally get up he is uncoperative and downright nasty and abusive.

he is currently contributing nothing to the house, has done very little to find himself a job and in fact since last summer has managed to actually lose his part time job. which i know was not in fact a nice job, nor a high paying one. but it was just over a hundred euro a week, which is not to be sneezed at either.

we dont give him money at all. but we are feeding him, and he is living here rent free. he has the use of a washing machine, drier, and takes showers (using the emersion) at least three times a week.

when he is in a good humour and nice to us - well - we remember that we do actually love this person, and all is well. but the other times ... ! Seven weeks ago it came to a head, and i threw him out of the house - let him back after two nights of him sleepign on the streets thinking he had learnt some sort of a lesson and things would be better. but we are back to it being as hard to live with as ever.

both of us are working, and its beyond annoying to have some lazy so and so living off your hard earned money....

So now : we have had enough. In our honest opinion he is happy for this situation to contine forever ... he has no desire to get a job and manages to live off the tiny bits of money he occasionly comes into - christmas money lasted to his birthday and now he is living off his birthday money.

So tonight we are asking him to leave. giving him eight weeks to find himself somewhere else to live. and its the hardest thing i think we are ever having to face into doing. after all we know he has no money and none of his friends have their own place.

are we doing the right thing?

Mothman

Personally, I'm not into what is right or wrong. There are many ways of dealing with situations and they can all be the "right thing"

What I do see is a case, presented well that supports the decision you've made, and also giving time to resolve the situation.

There may be a danger when push comes to shove that in 8 weeks you may be tempted to not go through with this and your son may call the bluff and so nothing may happen during the 8 weeks. Afterall you've let him back in already. So your son may not face up to situation until he knows you're serious.

yellowlabrador

Could you take time off work? I'd take a couple of weeks off, to get him into a routine. he needs to get up every morning, make bed impossible, get him to do jobs round the house, cleaning, cooking supper, etc. Don't take bad attitude. Get him out for a walk or some other activity. I feel he's depressed, so most probably he also needs a lot of love. Once he gets better, he'll get his life back on track. Tell him the way he's going about it isn't working, but if you want him to move out he's going to need a little help.

common sense brigade

Hey OP. Firstly im sorry your having such a hard time and the whole thing must be so draining. I think he might be suffering with depression as a previous poster suggessted and i think perhaps you need to get him to a doctor. does he socialise with friends? and would you be aware if he is doing drugs? . i would be reluctant to make my child homeless but thats not to say your inthe wrong. i just dont know as my child is only 2! and i havent crossed that bridge yet. but certainly the thought of my child sleeping rough even for the one night would horrify me. there must be a better way. as i said get him to a doctor. maybe even remove his tv or computer from his room if he has those and say he cannot have them until he contributes rent. lock them away somewhere he cant find them. he can watch tv in the family room but only what you guys the paying adults are watching.

KazDub

For a second there I thought that my parents had discovered Boards! They could have written almost an exact story regarding my younger brother (now in his mid 30s). I'd imagine that you and they have a very similar story. My brother is an intelligent man (though through his immature lifestyle I tend to think of him more as a 'boy'). He had issues in secondary school and was moved to another one. He never excelled at school, but he was never bottom of the class. He started a college course, but didn't like it, so dropped out. After that he repeated his leaving and enrolled in another course. His career history reads pretty much the same. Due to circumstances beyond his control he ended up moving home with my parents about 2 years ago and since then life has been hell for all three of them. Like your son, he spends too much time in bed, does not help out around the house, has to be constantly nagged to do anything and doesn't really engage in any kind of meaningful adult 'life' as such. My parents are getting on in life and I resent the stress and worry that he causes them. He is my brother, I love him dearly, but I wish that he could see things from my parents' point of view. After all these years of fighting and getting dragged in on arguments that have nothing to do with me, I've finally washed my hands of it all. I have tried suggesting things to my parents to help them cope with it all, maybe some of my insight might help.
My parents enable my brother. He claims the dole, yet pays no rent to my parents. He has enough money for cigarettes and trips to the pub. While I wouldn't begrudge anyone their legal vices and enjoyment, he should at least offer the price of one night out and a few boxes of cigs to my parents.
The three of them fight about the same thing all the time, in different guises, but basically the same thing. He feels no urgent need to do anything with his life as he already has what most of us work hard for. He has a roof over his head, food on the table, running water, electricity, clothing etc. but with none of the struggle to earn any of it.
I have told my mother that until she cuts him off from this freeloading way of life, he will have no incentive to get up off his backside any do anything. Occasionally he has an epiphany, an idea of how he'll get his own business up and running and earn money, but usually these are pie-in-the-sky notions obvious to everyone but himself.
Despite all of this though, I would be against my parents throwing him out of the house. I would be worried how this may affect his mental health, his opinion of himself and, more importantly, his opinion of how we regard him. Has your son any relatives that would be willing to take him in with strict ground rules? He would, for example, pay rent, buy his own food, contribute to bills. Maybe it would be harder for him to be so belligerent in a house that wasn't his home. Hopefully, one day, the penny will drop in his head, he will grow up and finally start living a life that you and he can be proud of. It could be far too much though for any person to cope with being put out of their own house and left to fend for themselves on the streets. You may never get your son back, or certainly not one that you could envisage your child becoming.

LegacyUser

yellowlabrador wrote: »

Could you take time off work? I'd take a couple of weeks off, to get him into a routine. he needs to get up every morning, make bed impossible, get him to do jobs round the house, cleaning, cooking supper, etc. Don't take bad attitude. Get him out for a walk or some other activity. I feel he's depressed, so most probably he also needs a lot of love. Once he gets better, he'll get his life back on track. Tell him the way he's going about it isn't working, but if you want him to move out he's going to need a little help.

taking time off work is not an option. as we would then not be paid. and then we would have the added worry of how to pay the morgage/electricity/food etc etc. i would add that i work only part time and am at home three mornings a week and spend a lot of those mornings just trying to get him to get up out of the bed.

we have checked out the drepression end of things - and no he is not depressed.

LegacyUser

common sense brigade wrote: »

Hey OP. Firstly im sorry your having such a hard time and the whole thing must be so draining. I think he might be suffering with depression as a previous poster suggessted and i think perhaps you need to get him to a doctor. does he socialise with friends? and would you be aware if he is doing drugs? . i would be reluctant to make my child homeless but thats not to say your inthe wrong. i just dont know as my child is only 2! and i havent crossed that bridge yet. but certainly the thought of my child sleeping rough even for the one night would horrify me. there must be a better way. as i said get him to a doctor. maybe even remove his tv or computer from his room if he has those and say he cannot have them until he contributes rent. lock them away somewhere he cant find them. he can watch tv in the family room but only what you guys the paying adults are watching.

he socialises well - has a big group of friends. plays in a band. we have opened our house to them all over the years. i am beginning to strongly suspect drugs. only he is so stony broke for money i would be even more inclined to suspect them. i know he does 'hash' ... those self same friends must be subbing him.

i agree - the though of him sleeping rough makes me ill too. the nights he was out i did not sleep. in fact all i did was wash and clean his room and wash all his clothes for him...

he has no computer access except in the family room. and only a dvd player in his own room.

we have checked out depression with our medical help. its not an issue in this case.

CrazyRabbit

Well for a start, show him this thread.

I find it hard to believe that a person (your son) could be so incredible lazy and selfish. He must not respect his parents very much.

Perhaps he needs help from a therapist so that he can build up his willpower, and start turning his life around. I think he's become too comfortable in this 'rut' and can't be bothered to make the effort to get out of it. He's figured that he can just about survive with the way things are, so he's no real incentive to change. The badly paid, terrible part time job probably reinforced this, and has given him another excuse to not bother.

You mentioned that you cleaned his room/washed his clothes for him. Well that's got to stop. 20 year old men should be responsible enough to keep themselves, their clothes and room in a clean condition.

Ricardo G

Op its a very hard situation you are in. When i was that age working was the last thing on my mind i loved doing nothing and having the life of Reilly but it did'nt last long. My Father gave me a simple choice, get out of the house and live your own life (i knew i would'nt last long) or get up off my backside and get ANY kind of work !! which is what happened eventually. Its so easy to fall into a lazy way of life and lay in bed all day and lack any kind of ambition but i think you are doing the right thing, it will break your heart doing it but he is 20 years old after all and not 12. As for the drugs issue ask him straight out about it and tell him you realise its his choice but you would respect an honest answer and advise him NEVER to have it in the house, if he is smoking hash it really is his own choice but let him know you do not agree with it and do not fly off the handle he could be doing a lot worse tbf.
I really feel for you Op and i hope you resolve it without too much hassle, he sounds like any typical 20 year old tbh he just needs a push in the right direction.

January

Ricardo G wrote: »

Op its a very hard situation you are in. When i was that age working was the last thing on my mind i loved doing nothing and having the life of Reilly but it did'nt last long. My Father gave me a simple choice, get out of the house and live your own life (i knew i would'nt last long) or get up off my backside and get ANY kind of work !! which is what happened eventually. Its so easy to fall into a lazy way of life and lay in bed all day and lack any kind of ambition but i think you are doing the right thing, it will break your heart doing it but he is 20 years old after all and not 12. As for the drugs issue ask him straight out about it and tell him you realise its his choice but you would respect an honest answer and advise him NEVER to have it in the house, if he is smoking hash it really is his own choice but let him know you do not agree with it and do not fly off the handle he could be doing a lot worse tbf.
I really feel for you Op and i hope you resolve it without too much hassle, he sounds like any typical 20 year old tbh he just needs a push in the right direction.

Ah you gotta be joking? He doesn't sound like any 20 year old I know...

OP, I really feel for you, but if you don't get tough now, he'll walk all over you for the rest of his life... But, can you really see yourself throwing him out in 8 weeks time? Where will he go? On the streets again?

From tomorrow, stop doing EVERYTHING for him, stop cooking him meals, washing his clothes, cleaning his room, even getting him up out of bed.

Get a form from the local social welfare office and make him start claiming job seekers benefit (he'll have to register with FAS also), he'll get a pittance of €100 a week (I think it's actually less now) and he should hand up half of that to you each week as rent/keep. The other €50 is to by himself his food for the week, and anything else he wants to do with it (bring him shopping in Lidl and show him what he can buy to make nice meals).

Tell him, he either gets a job or goes back to college but as an adult in the house he needs to start contributing one way or the other.

RedXIV

Hi OP,

I would second the sentiments above mainly the idea of forcing him to stand on his own two feet. If he's doing nothing, he's entitled to nothing, strip his room of anything that costs money to use. Dvd player costs YOU electricity, thats gone, lamps, stereo, anything he can use to escape reality needs to go.

You say he uses the family computer? no no, password lock that and make sure he can't use it, free computers to be used in the library.

Basically you need to remove EVERY perk he gets for free from living with you until he starts to pay for it.

Oh and leaving the hoover on at his bedroom door should help in getting him up. Or be very cruel and use a cup of water

RoryMurphyJnr

+1 nothing in this life is free

iMax

Can I just throw out something ?

It's occurred to me that your son may be suffering from a mild/moderate form of depression. If he chooses to spend all his time in bed, it's possible that he may not feel up to dealing with "life".

Personally before doing anything as drastic as giving him the move out ultimatum, I'd consider having him talk to someone first.

Depression manifests itself in many ways & a lot of people don't realise it until it's too late.

I know several people who would match or exceed your son's behaviour. Not lazy, just off track. Talking to someone helped, medication in two cases worked incredibly well.

Examine all the possibilities before what he may see as rejection in a time of need.

// of course I could be totally off the mark & he's just a lazy sod, but I'd exhaust every possibility first.

January

anonforthis. wrote: »

we have checked out depression with our medical help. its not an issue in this case.

OP already has that one covered iMax

iMax

Just spotted that.

I'd get a second opinion though, nothing is that cut & dried. HE has to see someone, not the parents ask about it.

username123

I think you are doing the right thing.

To take the family relationship out of the picture for a minute. Here you have an adult, who lives with other adults, is free loading, paying no rent, and whose behaviour is actually annoying for the other adults he lives with. If you werent his parents he would never get away with it.

He is TWENTY years of age!! Some people are raising families at that age - he needs to cop on and stand on his own two feet - a very difficult task if you keep propping him up and housing/feeding him. Your behaviour to date has been enabling him to just hang around doing nothing.

I would suggest you either implement solid house rules like paying rent, no free riding, or ask him to leave as you have suggested, giving him 8 weeks is very generous btw.

KittyeeTrix

I think another poster used the word "enabler" and this is excactly what you will be doing OP if you don't get him to either move out or shape up...............

It's very hard not to enable our kids when they reach a certain age but it is very detrimental to them in the long run. My mother in law is currently doing the same thing with my husbands brother who is 37!!!:eek:

He's on the dole, drinking all weekend, has his rent for his own place paid by the social but sleeps in his mums as it means he doesn't have the utility bills in his own house.............Fuppin' crazy!!:( Eats her food, uses her heating and water for showers etc......

I spoke to her about a year ago after she had been complaining about it for weeks on end to me and suggested like you that he completely move out to his own place (which he is renting) within a certain time period but she never had the conversation with him.........A year later and nothing has changed except she is slowly goin' mad because of the situation...

In a nutshell he's a work shy alco who sponges off his mum because she enables him to do so !!! HARSH BUT TRUE:(

My son is going into his Leaving Cert next year and he has been told already that I will support him for the 4 years he is in college (assuming he attends some classes and does not have to repeat any years). If he doesn't get to college which should not be the case and has to be on the dole he will then hand over a reasonable amount for housekeeping (the handing up is not open for negotiation but the amount may be)..

If this is not agreeable to him, he may seek accommodation someplace else with my blessing and I will have my arms open wide when he returns home following his harsh lesson with reality. He knows this and he also knows that I'm no "enabler" or "bullsh1tter"...........When I say it I damn well mean it..

Tough love OP, while it may seem harsh at the time it really is for their own good in the long run:)

So in answer to your question OP, yes you are doing the right thing and don't doubt it for a minute..

cynder

Not too sure on this one, depends on the person. my dad kicked my older brother out and he came to live with me (i was 17) he slept on my sofa for about a month until he found a job and got a place to live. He was kicked out because they didnt get on. he had slept rough for 2 nights before he hitched a ride to me.


I dont like the whole kicking kids out of the house. How many people are on the streets that cant count of family when they need them?

Ground rule, YES.

My eldest is 11, i couldnt imagine kicking her out.

KittyeeTrix

Just re-read the OP again and didn't realise that the lad has no money of his own i.e dole, that definitely makes things more complicated as he cannot hand up any housekeeping but in that case he should at least be contributing to the general care of the house

Splendour

iMax wrote: »

Just spotted that.

I'd get a second opinion though, nothing is that cut & dried. HE has to see someone, not the parents ask about it.

OP says he has a good social life, lots of friends, in a band so he can't be that depressed. Have recently heard of a few people who seem to suffer from 'selective depression', i.e. they can't work but have no problem socialising.

LegacyUser

Hi op I really sympathise with your situation and I can only imagine how upsetting this must be for you and your wife. I think you are right to ask him to leave but I think the onus is on you to help him find somewhere to live and help him claim benefits. I do believe he is old enough to do all this for himself but unfortunatly it sounds as if he will not do so. At least if you help organise alternative accomodation for him you will not have the worry of him sleeping rough on your minds. You will be less likely to go back on the ultimatum you have given him if your minds are at ease that he has a place of his own. As far as I know he the rent can be paid from socialwelfare direct to landlord so at least you would not need to worry that he would be evicted for nonpayment of rent. If he does get his own place make sure ye stand firm, no free meals at yer place no washing his clothes or allowing him to stock up from yer food cupboards. It is a known fact that smoking hash causes people to become demotivated and uninterested in life, contact a drugs support group and get advice there. I wish you the best of luck and hope things work out.

whiteonion

Kick him out and don't let him in again. You have sheltered him too much and now his grown up to become a weakling dependent on his parents even as an adult. Kick him out and don't let him in again.

gaeilgegrinds1

I wouldn't kick him out and I will tell you why.
My first bf sounds like your son. He was a really sweet guy though but once he was kicked out got into drinking heavily and drugs, I ended up leaving him and he has gone down a very slippery slope. I'd get him into a routine instead, give him chores to pay his way. Issue that type of ultimatum. He needs to cop on.

cynder

whiteonion wrote: »

Kick him out and don't let him in again. You have sheltered him too much and now his grown up to become a weakling dependent on his parents even as an adult. Kick him out and don't let him in again.

How could someone do that to their own child, their flesh and blood? You dont have achild for 18 years you have a child for life.

gcgirl

grindelwald wrote: »

How could someone do that to their own child, their flesh and blood? You dont have achild for 18 years you have a child for life.

Easy I'm a mum to 3 kids and if they don't pull their weight in the house and act like that guy their gonna get a serious kick up the ass, I started working my ass off as a 18 yr old till i had the kids and by no means i'm want the kids to succeed.

cathy01

I would give another option.If he cant find work, that is paid than he does voluntery work.Hes to be out of the house doing his voluntery work, for a few hours a day, monday to Friday.This will allow him see that there are other ways to experiance working life.
My own kids have always known that we will help and support them but they must contribute to the home when they are earning.So much so that my daughter age 14 , got 20 euro for babysitting and put a fiver in the kitty without me even having to ask.:D

If hes at home,than he has to help out around the house. Empty bins, hoover, clean windows, eitherway he earns his keep .Its very very hard, you love him and have spent 20 years supporting him.Its a difficult ting to give up.But , he will never be a man , when hes let be a boy.

Honest, the very best of luck with this.Cathy

cynder

gcgirl wrote: »

Easy I'm a mum to 3 kids and if they don't pull their weight in the house and act like that guy their gonna get a serious kick up the ass, I started working my ass off as a 18 yr old till i had the kids and by no means i'm want the kids to succeed.

Im a mom to 3 kids as well, also i started work at 14 out of that my parents got 45 pound a week. I left home at 16 and had a full time job and rented accommodation with bills to pay.
But that is off topic!


Being a layabout isn't an option but neither should be kicking ones child out the house (unless the adult child is violent against parents/siblings).

The Sparrow

Wow some very harsh ppl here. So you want to turn your layabout lazy son into a homeless person to prove a point to him? Ok nobody wants their child to be lazy and unhelpful around the house but that is a damn sight better than them being homeless.

Forget about silly ultimatums because they just make the situation worse as he will resent you about it. Instead continue to calmly explain the situation to him that you are not going to put up with his attitude. But don't throw him out.

How could any parent with any sort of conscience throw out their child and see them sleeping on the streets?

cbyrd

How was he as a teenager ?? Could it be late onset adolescence ?

LegacyUser

thanks for all the many and varied answers. they have actually been a great help to me over this past week. hell - even offloading it this way has helped.

we did not 'have the talk' with him. to be perfectly honest - i sat down and thought hard about it and i can not face living withmyself if i throw him out. i could not in all conscience make someone - anyone - homeless. i never wanted to do that.

but i also do not want to conintue to live with this current situation.

we are positive he is not suffering from depression. we do know he has days when he is feeling down - but that is a world of difference to depression.

we have stopped the internet usage on our computer. and have given him a list of tasks to do.... but he seems to think that is an excuse for not going out to look for work ..!

i was out in a local shopping centre recently and there were reps from a job hunting club there - i got a load of info from them and gave it to him. i was chatting away to them and it seemed like a great stepping stone. but when he went he said they told him he was too young ?

he finally went to fas. apparently they told him his leaving results were too good? and they were only there for people with poor school results?

he said he wanted to become a bartender. i actually thought this would suit him, he is a chatty bloke and can be a great talker. so i asked him to look into it. he came back with a private college/training course information. and seems miffed that we would not spend the 2.5grand euro on it! yet has not gone into any of the local pubs to ask about training there !!

so we can only conclude he seems to want it all handed up to him on a plate. this is baffling us... we did not rear our kids this way. they have always seen us work, and pull our weight to make our way in the world.

anyway the long and the short of it is - we still dont know what to do next. if he would only get himself some sort of a job, we would happily help him get a flat of his own, we told him as much back in january after the throwing out insident. we can't see how any landlord will take on a tenent without a job?

we dont want to have this continue without end. frankly the story of some bloke in his 30's still living off his parents frightened me no end!! that is not going to be us.

BostonB

Giving some one a free ride, which allows them to ignore real life, is doing them real harm IMO. You're establishing a pattern they may continue all their life.

gossipgal08

First off I have Depression. My mother made me move out of the family home when I was in my early 20's. Best thing she ever did for me. Can you get him on a fas course some where far enough away from where you live so that he has to move. Fas pay a rent allowance afaik. Dont just kick him out, heplp him find somewhere to live.

blue_steel

anonforthis. wrote: »

he finally went to fas. apparently they told him his leaving results were too good? and they were only there for people with poor school results?

You do realise that he's is lying? FAS offers all kinds of training and placement advice for everyone, regardless of education. There are also private employment agencies all over Ireland. I know jobs are scarse these days but there are no valid excuses. My wife's 22 year old brother couldn't find a job after college last year. After 3 months of looking it was made clear to him that he couldn't just do nothing. He ended up moving to Paris and got a job working in a bar after a week. He loves it there. If his parents had allowed him to sit about the house all day he probably would have. But they didn't. I understand how hard this must be, but if you stand up to him one day he'll thank you for it.

LegacyUser

we finally did the sit down talk. have given him up untill the end of may - so more than 9 weeks really all in all. told him straight out that we would be willing to help out with the deposit for a flat, that stuff could be stored in our house, would get him boxes etc.

that he would be welcome to come down for some grub some evenings, that we would even help in letting him use the washing machine if his new place did not have one.

so we have been beyond fair and helpful.

and we really feel that this is the right and only thing to do. for everyone. he needs to learn to stand on his own feet, and he needs to be bloomin well pushed onto them!

(and yea - I was pretty sure he was lying with regard to fas..... )

thanks again to everyone for listening and for taking the time to reply. i agree that jobs are thin on the ground - but they are not none existant., and they sure as eggs are not going to come find you - you have to go out and look for them.

Voltex

OP...have you sat doen with your son and really listened to what he has to say?
When we look at a someone close to us who we care about and love and see them acting in a way that is contary to the we we think they should do or act, its a confusing to us and makes no sense.
Sit down with your son and really listen to his opinions and try and emphatically lsiten. ask about what or where he sees himself in 5 years time...what are his goals and aspirations...try and let him paint a picture of what he see simslef doing and how he thinks he will achieve his goals. be present to help align his goals with realistic assumptions of his capability, without being dismissive.

kelle

I just came across this thread now. I am pleased you have talked to your son and that you have come to an agreement.

I have a brother who had a tendency to behave as your son does, and my parents didn't mind (ie, they enabled his behaviour). Then they were diagnosed with cancer at the same time and died within 5 months - so he was forced to become independent!

And your son will become independent if you give him no other choice (I don't mean for you to do away with yourselves!) - and he'll survive!