NEW 12 EDT LESSONS: commences April 4th. Explained ;)

DrivingsCool

So many people have asked me about the new "12 Lessons" that everyone has to take. Well its not as simple as just 12 lessons, but ive explained it very simply for everyone.


I Attended a meeting on Thursday Regarding the new driving regulation held by the "Road Safety Authority RSA" (EDT= Essential Driver training) been brought in 1st week of April.

Anyone with a stamped Learner permit (Provisional license) on or after 4/4/11 will be effected, so if you ever think you will ever drive in your life, register now before its too late.

The EDT basically is 12 steps to driving safely. Its a minimum of 12 lessons that will cover 12 steps to learning to drive with your ADI Approved Driving Instructor, There's a lot of detail in the 12 lessons so ADI's will be pushed to even get the objectives covered on each hour lesson. The idea behind is that you will be learning for longer, like in UK and Europe.

The ADI now has all the control of who goes for their test now, so that when drivers now go for their test having passed their 12 key EDT lessons, the candidate has already being tested thus the pass rates at test centers will increase dramatically because the standard of driving will be greater, thus bringing down the wait lists for testing. ( I heard on the QT that the RSA might be bringing in an increased test amount if you don't pass first time. 20euro more and so on, every time you fail your test so the incentive is their to get the right training to begin with and not to block the system as is currently the case with students just re-applying for their tests and not enough lessons. But its just Here-say at the moment!! Not official.


The ADI must sign a Declaration (Learner Driver Log Book ) by law that states that the Learner has passed the 12 stages. The steps have more in the content of learning to drive than before and learners will be learning for longer, so it wont be a case of get your provisional license and go straight out on the road like before and sit your test with minimal or no ADI lessons.


Also, when you get to step 12, If I as your instructor don't feel you are ready for your test, I don't sign your "Learner Logbook".
The book is like a license and will be stamped, signed, dated and notes made according to each 12 mandatory key lesson's.
It will be very official and this book is the only piece of proof you will have to participating in the EDT so maybe let your instructor keep your book as if you loose it, its complicated to apply for another one. Just like a passport. (The ADI will need to keep separate records of every EDT lessons in-case the original Log Book is lost by the student)(The ADI can provide a new one at cost to student after the item reported to Gardai)

Scenario: If I have a student who has difficulty with a certain area, example : EDT part 5. Junctions.(Number given for illustration only as an example) If I don't feel the student knows how to do a junction properly what ever the case maybe, they must repeat part 5 with me and keep repeating it until they do pass that section. The student could have a million lessons on that particular part, but until they pass it, they cant go on to part 6 or sit the test. I know it sounds slightly unfair but its what happening come this April 4th if you have not got a license before then.



Now!!

YOU can apply for the test and pay for the test, even if you have no lessons, but upon meeting your tester, prior to testing they will be required to show their provisional license and their EDT training log book signed as passed on all 12 key areas. If the student cant display this - the test is canceled but still charged. So there's no way round it!


The same law will remain where learners are given 2 yrs to learn to drive and sit their test, if they have not passed in 2 yrs, they will still have to apply for their test (85euro I think now) to be able to get their provisional learner permit renewed.

Its increasing the standard of driving and to push the increasing amount of provisional licence drivers off the road, that are driving illegally unaccompanied and not participating in the rules of the road.

We hope that a Garda update will be in support of new regulations, but the RSA didnt mention about them at the meeting! Anyone with a Learner permit/ Provisional license prior to 4/4/11, I dont believe they will be effected by the 12 EDT lessons, so apply now and save yourself a fortune, because the days of 3 or 4 lessons with an Instructor, drive on your own for a few months and then a few lessons to pass the test... Those days are going. Its going to be serious graft just like in UK and Europe.


( A small private survey conducted at an RSA test centre recently. The results concluded that the pass rate on the give week was 15% pass.
Of this amount all the drivers had, had 2-8hours proffesional driving lessons in their life, not over!
20% had only 1 lesson maximum before their test and no other driving lesson within 2weeks.
85% had driven to the test center illegally unaccompanied.
95% of drivers did not know if their driving instructor was registered with the RSA. (ADI = Approved Driving Instructor)

98% were sitting their test for the second time plus. That's 2% pass the test first time.
Of the 98%, 60% had already sat the test 3-4 times or more, and 20% sat the test 8 times previously.

This statistic of 98% will decrease because of the new EDT lessons!
ADI instructor's wont allow unprepared drivers do the test as if someone arrives for the test and all though they have a signed and stamped logbook declaration stating they have passed all 12 key areas, if their standard is not recognised by the RSA testers and fail their test, The ADI instructor may be called in for questioning and re-testing as part of the Rules of the Road and the EDT training.

In Conclusion - its almost like you have 12 small tests to do with your ADI driving instructor now, and then your over all test with the RSA.

Good Luck to Drivers holding a learner permit dated on or after April 4th!!! You'll Need It.

**Timbuk2**

Good to know, thanks for posting! 3 points though:

DrivingsCool wrote: »

Anyone who registers for theory test after """"April 4th 2011""""" will be effected, so if you ever think you will ever drive in your life, register now before its too late.

So it's definitely by when you apply for your Theory Test, and nothing to do with when the Learner Permit is issued?

DrivingsCool wrote: »

The EDT basically is 12 steps to driving safely. Its a minimum of 12 lessons that will cover 12 steps to learning to drive with your ADI Approved Driving Instructor, There's a lot of detail in the 12 lessons so ADI's will be pushed to even get the objectives covered on each hour lesson. The idea behind is that you will be learning for longer, like in UK and Europe.

Do you know if there are going to be three mandatory modules/steps/sessions where the learner has to be familiar with the basic controls of a car, e.g. moving off, before they can proceed onto the 12-step system?

DrivingsCool wrote: »

The same law will remain where learners are given 2 yrs to learn to drive and sit their test, if they have not passed in 2 yrs, they will still have to apply for their test (85euro I think now) to be able to get their provisional learner permit renewed.

I could be wrong, but I thought you only needed proof of having applied for the test if it's your Third or subsequent Learner Permit? I.e. you can have your first LP for 2 years, get your second LP, and then you need to provide evidence of having failed, or applied for, your driving test to apply for subsequent LPs?

Compton

Good post OP. Clears a lot up

J_R

Anyone who registers for theory test after """"April 4th 2011""""" will be effected, so if you ever think you will ever drive in your life, register now before its too late.

Hi,


good post but that is incorrect

from

If your first category B learner permit (code 991 in column marked restrictions/ information) is dated on or after 4 April2011 (look at ó/from column on the permit), you must take the EDT course.

You can get more information on licence categories from www.rsa.ie

I was also at a meeting and I asked the question "was there any exceptions ?" and was informed that

No exception, any LP stamped 4th April 2011 and later must produce stamped signed EDT logbook. So no complications, just check their learner permit.

10 or perhaps 12 logbooks will be initially issued free to the driving insructors, it is up to them how or if they charge for them. They must purchase any subsequent logbooks, RSA reckon they will cost about €4.00 each.

If the student lose their book they must report the lost to the Garda, only then will theirADI issue them with a new one.

DrivingsCool

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Good to know, thanks for posting! 3 points though:




So it's definitely by when you apply for your Theory Test, and nothing to do with when the Learner Permit is issued?

A)"YES - As far as what the RSA stated at the meeting. Everyone with a Learner permit as of 4/4/11 will be effected"


Do you know if there are going to be three mandatory modules/steps/sessions where the learner has to be familiar with the basic controls of a car, e.g. moving off, before they can proceed onto the 12-step system?

" The EDT under Lines 12 key areas of learning only at the moment. EDT 1 will cover the very basic " Cockpit drill and moving off" etc. Alot of EDT 1 can be learned from books and Dvds so, I dont think EDT 1 will become a problem for me anyhow. Now, the curriculum set for EDT 1, is extremely intence for the student, but its at the ADI's discretion to pass EDT 1 and cover some of the steps later EDT 2 if they want. EDT 1 I feel will become 1.5hr lesson or even 2 hours because there is alot of material in it. Also, the ADI needs to record the lesson conduct in the log book which the student is meant to keep, but updating the notes must be done with the student so it makes the EDT lesson longer hence I feel the first driving lesson will no longer be done in 1hr, although stated in the EDT curriculum. Its a difficult one, but will need to be decided between ADI and student and will depend on how clear and concise the ADI is at communicating and how easy or difficult it is for the student to learn. Being a driving Instructor is about to get much harder! "

I could be wrong, but I thought you only needed proof of having applied for the test if it's your Third or subsequent Learner Permit? I.e. you can have your first LP for 2 years, get your second LP, and then you need to provide evidence of having failed, or applied for, your driving test to apply for subsequent LPs?

C) Anyone already having a Learner Permit as of this coming april 4th, will NOT be effected by the EDT 12 Key lessons. As far as your question states, this is for current license holders which will NOT be effected by EDT.
To add, as before the Gardai and theyre approach to Learner Drivers on the roads, was not discussed so its difficult to know what angle the Gardai will take, but as far as im aware, Learners not displaying "L" plates and Learners driving on the first provisional are most at risk in terms of Gardai regulations and having their cars impounded if caught driving alone. The last part of your third question is correct, but applies to Non EDT drivers. Lets get that clear!! I would presume that the RSA will continue to renew Learner permits once someone has applied for or sat their test. However, I have heard on the QT that the registration numbers of cars that fail on the test and or student names and addresses are going into a system where as something will be done to get the long term provisonal drivers, driving on their own off the road. But nothing other than whats is in current effect is coming in, as far as what was said at this RSA meeting.

But over all, after April a lot will change.

DrivingsCool

Dear J__R

Thanks for pointing that out.

Its all positive, as we all need to know the correct info.

Thanks for feedback.

J_R

Hi

Info is on page 2 of ESSENTIAL DRIVER TRAINING (EDT)
Learner Driver Information Booklet.

Clicky

Was anticipating pupils phoning wanting to know if they were liable for new regs., reason asked the question.

And as stated was told that the only relevant detail was the issue date of the 1st learner permit, nothing else mattered..

ihateclowns11

Safety lol,its not about safety,its about Money.

**Timbuk2**

ihateclowns11 wrote: »

Safety lol,its not about safety,its about Money.

Actually, I think it's a good idea! This will increase pass rates, which means people will take less tests, and as each test is subsidised by the state, that means the state are paying out less money for tests.

It should also significantly increase the skill of newly qualified drivers on the road. After 12 lessons I highly doubt we'll see newly qualified drivers making mistakes, such as not observing correctly, using roundabouts incorrectly, etc.

I can't see any disadvantages, really. Owning and running a car is very expensive, and fuel, tax, insurance (and possibly repairs) throughout the years will amount to much more than the 12 lessons will cost.

ADIDriving

DrivingsCool wrote: »

The ADI now has all the control of who goes for their test now, so that when drivers now go for their test having passed their 12 key EDT lessons, the candidate has already being tested thus the pass rates at test centers will increase dramatically because the standard of driving will be greater, thus bringing down the wait lists for testing.
The ADI must sign a Declaration (Learner Driver Log Book ) by law that states that the Learner has passed the 12 stages. The steps have more in the content of learning to drive than before and learners will be learning for longer, so it wont be a case of get your provisional license and go straight out on the road like before and sit your test with minimal or no ADI lessons.
Also, when you get to step 12, If I as your instructor don't feel you are ready for your test, I don't sign your "Learner Logbook".
The book is like a license and will be stamped, signed, dated and notes made according to each 12 mandatory key lesson's.
It will be very official and this book is the only piece of proof you will have to participating in the EDT so maybe let your instructor keep your book as if you loose it, its complicated to apply for another one. Just like a passport. (The ADI will need to keep separate records of every EDT lessons in-case the original Log Book is lost by the student)(The ADI can provide a new one at cost to student after the item reported to Gardai)

Scenario: If I have a student who has difficulty with a certain area, example : EDT part 5. Junctions.(Number given for illustration only as an example) If I don't feel the student knows how to do a junction properly what ever the case maybe, they must repeat part 5 with me and keep repeating it until they do pass that section. The student could have a million lessons on that particular part, but until they pass it, they cant go

Having been at the first one of these meeting, everyone in that room was clearly told something very, very different. ADIs do not test student. That is the job of the RSA. We give the lessons. When we have delivered that lesson we sign their logbook. They are not required to have reached any particular standard. The only restriction is that they will be required to have meet the pre-lesson requirements before the next lesson.
The key point made many times at that meeting was that the logbook records the delivery of information.
The ADIs will have acopy of each completed lesson-page and then they are to email the RSA with the progress of students, therefor there would be another record of the logbook, so students should keep their own logbooks.

Faith+1

Well written. I'm a full licence holder but my sister is thinking of getting her L/P so I'll show her this to influence her to get it before the 4th if that's even possible now.

loobylou

I was at one of the early meetings and the attitude to the proposals from ADIs was quite negative. The idea of compulsory lessons is good but the scheme being put in place is overly complicated and IMO will be unworkable.
The RSA people seemed quite surprised by the feedback they were getting and have obviously refined their message in later meetings, ie the one DrivingsCool reported on.
It does not bode well for EDT if policy is being made up "on the hoof".

DrivingTestTips: Brian

ADIDriving wrote: »

Having been at the first one of these meeting, everyone in that room was clearly told something very, very different. ADIs do not test student. That is the job of the RSA. We give the lessons. When we have delivered that lesson we sign their logbook. They are not required to have reached any particular standard. The only restriction is that they will be required to have meet the pre-lesson requirements before the next lesson.
The key point made many times at that meeting was that the logbook records the delivery of information.
The ADIs will have acopy of each completed lesson-page and then they are to email the RSA with the progress of students, therefor there would be another record of the logbook, so students should keep their own logbooks.

This is CORRECT!!

I attended 3 meetings and the above by ADIDriving is what the ADI will have to do.
At the end you WILL NOT BE READY for your driving test as they are not driving test related lessons.

I posted this information a few days ago:

The information received at ADI meetings regarding the EDT is as follows:

* The EDT (12 mandatory lessons) are there to help you learn as a new beginner driver.
* It is not a guarantee you will be a competent driver after.
* You will need practice between your EDT lessons.
* You will need to learn as much as possible before you take an EDT lesson.
* As a new learner (with no experiences) you will not on completion of your EDT be at driving test standard.
* You may (in my experience you will) need to take extra lessons after or between your EDT lessons.


I have put this up so that learner drivers KNOW what to expect.

Please Note:
ALL ADIs attending the meetings were concerned that you the learner will expect your driving would meet driving test standard on completion of your EDT; we were also very concerned that you would believe you are a competent driver on completion of your EDT. In reality signing off (ADI stamps your logbook) on your EDT is only to say you completed the lessons and is in no way a signing of competence.


I hope I have made this clear because this issue lasted hours at the meetings.

Faith+1

But can an ADI refuse to sign a leaners log book to squeeze more money out of them? And can a learner get the log book completed by other instructors if they don't like the instuctors teaching methods?

DrivingTestTips: Brian

Faith+1 wrote: »

But can an ADI refuse to sign a leaners log book to squeeze more money out of them?

well the ADI is only stamping the log to say that the EDT was completed "completed". IF the EDT was not completed for some reson well then the ADI can not stamp.

And can a learner get the log book completed by other instructors if they don't like the instuctors teaching methods?

YES! but only if each EDT is completed.

loobylou

It will not be possible to deliver the content of each EDT properly in one hour.
12 "compulsory" lessons is going to stretch to 18 or 20 and clients are going to feel ripped off. The blame for this will fall on the ADI, instead of with the RSA where responsibility really lies.
I can hear the Joe Duffy show already!

DrivingTestTips: Brian

loobylou wrote: »

It will not be possible to deliver the content of each EDT properly in one hour.
12 "compulsory" lessons is going to stretch to 18 or 20 and clients are going to feel ripped off. The blame for this will fall on the ADI, instead of with the RSA where responsibility really lies.
I can hear the Joe Duffy show already!

I agree!!!

But we are not signing off on competency, it's including the ADIs in the system of learning which is out there now (learn to drive with mammy and/or daddy and only get lessons when your test is next week).
This means the learner can learn and practice as they are now BUT they will also need to get 12 hours of teaching from a qualified driving instructor.

That has to be a good thing; because at least ADIs have some input into what the learner is learning (not the parents bad habits)

DrivingsCool

Faith+1 wrote: »

But can an ADI refuse to sign a leaners log book to squeeze more money out of them? And can a learner get the log book completed by other instructors if they don't like the instuctors teaching methods?

Unfortunatly Yes to the first part Faith, but Id hope that all ADI's would be trying to help you. So always book one lesson to see how you find them before booking block of ten lessons etc. You can have as many instructors ADI as you like, keep your book and each will sign it when you have passed the specific following module.

DrivingsCool

DrivingTestTips: Brian wrote: »

I agree!!!

But we are not signing off on competency, it's including the ADIs in the system of learning which is out there now (learn to drive with mammy and/or daddy and only get lessons when your test is next week).
This means the learner can learn and practice as they are now BUT they will also need to get 12 hours of teaching from a qualified driving instructor.

That has to be a good thing; because at least ADIs have some input into what the learner is learning (not the parents bad habits)

Its positive change, and what you have said here and I have is all very positive to those that will read about EDT here on boards. The way of learning to drive in Ireland is changing. The RSA are in the process of launching a huge campaign to explain these changes and in time, few months I suspect, everyone in Ireland will know that it will take about 15-20 hours minimum to learn to drive and that the passed EDT is something the RSA require. Try and see it as a positive as long term its better for everyone. Thanks for all the positive feedback.

DrivingsCool

loobylou wrote: »

It will not be possible to deliver the content of each EDT properly in one hour.
12 "compulsory" lessons is going to stretch to 18 or 20 and clients are going to feel ripped off. The blame for this will fall on the ADI, instead of with the RSA where responsibility really lies.
I can hear the Joe Duffy show already!

Ive Gone through the content and its definitely achievable. "Change" can be difficult sometimes though, but the support is available for us, from myself and other ADI's aswell as from the RSA.

As for lesson conduct with regard to time scales, on EDT lessons the Module can be teached per hour in theory. Unfortunatly the practical side will suffer but the idea behind it, is that it will the student can then practice on a *sponsored lesson as per advised at RSA meeting.

Sponsored lessons = Conducted with an ADI / Or anyone with the correct license type for correct amount of time. (Not a provisonal driver)

It will basically be the same as the UK and most of Europe. So theres no reason the students to feel they are being ripped off!

Sparkie93

i am very glad i got my LP two months ago just wondering when if someone fails their test and they have to reapply for a second license after april 4th will they have to take up the 12 lessons?

JayEnnis

Just clearing this up, I'm fully licensed so don't jump down my throat.

I've my friend beside me here and he's been driving on a provisional since june 09 and we're just booking his test now. How will this affect him? If in any way at all. I read the OP but couldn't get a clear understanding of it. Does this only apply to drivers who got their provisional after april 4th?

DrivingTestTips: Brian

JayEnnis wrote: »

Just clearing this up, I'm fully licensed so don't jump down my throat.

I've my friend beside me here and he's been driving on a provisional since june 09 and we're just booking his test now. How will this affect him? If in any way at all. I read the OP but couldn't get a clear understanding of it. Does this only apply to drivers who got their provisional after april 4th?

Yes!

Your friend wont need to worry.

JayEnnis

Ok thanks a million for that!

DrivingsCool

ihateclowns11 wrote: »

Safety lol,its not about safety,its about Money.

Its very easy to say this but the RSA records of people attending their test and passing it first time is one of the weakest in the world. You can ask any driving instructor and very rarely will they feel that a student is ready for their test or even that of taking a car out on a public road!

One particular student of mine after 1 lesson took her own car out around her estate with a friend in the car, and ran over her own son, when she mistook the accelerator for the brake. The child is still in hospital 2 years on with severe brain injurys! Its only one scenario and maybe EDT training wont stop accidents happening, but it will give a better understanding of how to control a car. Students like this Irish lady-just wont listen to ADI's explaining that they are not to go out on the road yet! As ADI's your driving instructor will guide you, to help you as much as they can.

Its a quick reaction to say its a money racket and I do understand your statement but its actually not about money, its about safety and about saving someones life like the example above.

There is a major negative stigma about having more than 10 lessons in Ireland and this will change come April. Its changing! For too long have the RSA had to put up with drivers who could barely drive a car, while attending their test. Last year I witnessed a student after failing her test, drive her car (Un accompanied) through a wall in the test centre car park! This madness is all in a days work for alot of ADI's and Testers of the RSA, and its time for it to end!

Bring on april 4th!

loobylou

DrivingsCool wrote: »

One particular student of mine after 1 lesson took her own car out around her estate with a friend in the car, and ran over her own son, when she mistook the accelerator for the brake. The child is still in hospital 2 years on with severe brain injurys!

That is very sad to hear but the new regulations could actually encourage behaviour like that. Heres whats expected of a pupil before lesson 3 with his ADI.
You should have practised the following for at least three
hours:
􀁺 positioning the vehicle on the straight;
􀁺 cornering;
􀁺 negotiating bends and junctions;
􀁺 changing lanes;
􀁺 entering and exiting from slip roads;
􀁺 entering and exiting junctions and roundabouts; and
􀁺 correct positioning within traffi c lanes.
You should also have read the sections of the Rules of the
Road that deal with:
􀁺 correct positioning in these situations; and
􀁺 changing direction and making observations.
You should have acted on any feedback your ADI gave you at
the end of your last EDT lesson.
The above it what is expected of a learner after only 2 EDT lessons, one of which will probably not have involved the pupil even moving the car.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

loobylou wrote: »

That is very sad to hear but the new regulations could actually encourage behaviour like that. Heres whats expected of a pupil before lesson 3 with his ADI.
You should have practised the following for at least three
hours:
�� positioning the vehicle on the straight;
�� cornering;
�� negotiating bends and junctions;
�� changing lanes;
�� entering and exiting from slip roads;
�� entering and exiting junctions and roundabouts; and
�� correct positioning within traffic lanes.
You should also have read the sections of the Rules of the
Road that deal with:
�� correct positioning in these situations; and
�� changing direction and making observations.
You should have acted on any feedback your ADI gave you at
the end of your last EDT lesson.
The above it what is expected of a learner after only 2 EDT lessons, one of which will probably not have involved the pupil even moving the car.

How are people learning all this at the moment? "there Not" as you know.

It will be hard for people to get going, but lets hope it helps in the long run.

loobylou

Don't get me wrong, I WANT this to work. But for it to work it is going to need public backing. Most of what I've seen is aspirational pie in sky stuff dreamt up in an office in Sligo. If people do not get behind it,it will not work.
How do people learn this at the moment? Some take 3-4 lessons, some take no lessons, some drive accompanied, some don't. You and I both know this, the system is broke. But we must replace that system with something that has a good chance of working. I don't see what is being currently proposed as the best possible option.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

loobylou wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I WANT this to work. But for it to work it is going to need public backing. Most of what I've seen is aspirational pie in sky stuff dreamt up in an office in Sligo. If people do not get behind it,it will not work.
How do people learn this at the moment? Some take 3-4 lessons, some take no lessons, some drive accompanied, some don't. You and I both know this, the system is broke. But we must replace that system with something that has a good chance of working. I don't see what is being currently proposed as the best possible option.

I would rather the EDT system than no system.

This system will make people take on learning in a proactive way and it will also do away with the rouge driving instructors.

Let's live in hope loobylou.

loobylou

DrivingTestTips: Brian wrote: »

I would rather the EDT system than no system.

I would PREFER the EDT system than no system.
I would rather the EDT system had been better thought out.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

loobylou wrote: »

I would PREFER the EDT system than no system.
I would rather the EDT system had been better thought out.

Lol

jennifer1404

Hi!
Thanks for all your info, but im still a little confused! ( not unusual for me!!) I have a provisional licence issued until end of 2012 does this mean it will not be valid after april? Am i eligible to just apply for another provisional after this expires? Also, if i apply for the driving test before april 4th, will i still need to these lessons, or is it ok to do it the old way when you have applied previous to this date? If anyone could help me that would be great! getting slightly worried now! thanks!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

brian076

loobylou wrote: »

I would PREFER the EDT system than no system.
I would rather the EDT system had been better thought out.

I fully agree with you. I think someone in the RSA who is trying to justify his existance, has dreamt up what he thinks is the best way of teaching pupils without first consulting ADI's. Sure there was a consultation process, but the decision had already been made to go ahead with this project long before any ADI had their say.

The whole thing is far too regimented and allows for no flexibility based on the knowledge or driving experience of the pupil. For example, I have 2 pupils at the moment who have newly issued Learner permits, but both of them had previously taken lessons in the UK, one of them is at test standard. If his LP was issued after 4th April he'd have to start from scratch, and I'd have to spend an hour explaining to him how the clutch works.

If you get a pupil who holds a full licence from a country outside the EU, they too will have to go thru all 12 modules, even though they won't have to wait 6 months to do their test. I've no idea how this will work.

It appears that as far as the RSA are concerned, every learner is 18 years old, living at home with mammy and daddy, who have endless time, knowledge and patience to teach their darlings how to drive.

It would have been so much easier for them to trust ADI's to provide 12 lessons tailored to the needs of each individual pupil, even if some of these were pre tests, and they could have provided a list of subjects or topics which must be covered, similar to the core competencies in Part 3 of the ADI test.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

ADIs... its mandatory training. There has to be a syllabus.
If someone is good enough to do the EDT then they will fly through it.

The RSA don't care about the cost, experience, history in another country or anything, bar the number of people been killed on Irish roads.

Driving instructors have wanted this for years and now that it's coming in you are complaining. As Michael Dolan of the ADI Unit said, "you don't have to be an EDT instructor". If you don't want to do it, just continue as you are.

Sorry for letting off steam...

jennifer1404

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Thank you soo much! Your a star

DrivingsCool

JayEnnis wrote: »

Just clearing this up, I'm fully licensed so don't jump down my throat.

I've my friend beside me here and he's been driving on a provisional since june 09 and we're just booking his test now. How will this affect him? If in any way at all. I read the OP but couldn't get a clear understanding of it. Does this only apply to drivers who got their provisional after april 4th?

Answer to your question, Yes, Its only applies to people with a Learner Permit / Provisional license after 4/4/11, so your friend will learn the current way as before.

How could you not have understood that description, hehe

DrivingsCool

Sparkie93 wrote: »

i am very glad i got my LP two months ago just wondering when if someone fails their test and they have to reapply for a second license after april 4th will they have to take up the 12 lessons?

Hey! Good question, but the answer is simple:

Anyone with a License stamped 4/4/2011 or after will need to comply with the 12 EDT driving modules.

As your License is current, it is stamped before this date, so you are excluded from EDT.

DrivingsCool

loobylou wrote: »

That is very sad to hear but the new regulations could actually encourage behaviour like that. Heres whats expected of a pupil before lesson 3 with his ADI.
You should have practised the following for at least three
hours:
􀁺 positioning the vehicle on the straight;
􀁺 cornering;
􀁺 negotiating bends and junctions;
􀁺 changing lanes;
􀁺 entering and exiting from slip roads;
􀁺 entering and exiting junctions and roundabouts; and
􀁺 correct positioning within traffi c lanes.
You should also have read the sections of the Rules of the
Road that deal with:
􀁺 correct positioning in these situations; and
􀁺 changing direction and making observations.
You should have acted on any feedback your ADI gave you at
the end of your last EDT lesson.
The above it what is expected of a learner after only 2 EDT lessons, one of which will probably not have involved the pupil even moving the car.

The EDT is geared up (Excuse the pun) to students that will have a car to practice in (Sponsored lessons) so the above is achievable, in that case!

Not every student will have a car to practice with and to them it is difficult as they will need to take the sponsored lessons with the ADI, as it is done in the UK and in most EU countries, to achieve the required standard.

It very easy to see it as negative Loobylou , but any ADI will agree that, we have our students best interest at heart and all an ADI can do is support the changes to come and support our students with this.

As for the lady I had, she came over to me in Superquinn one day,
tears streaming down her face, telling me that she
"wished she had of listened". It upset me alot too, and yet still I face the same dilemma most days with unprepared students, but we are not the law and all we can do as ADI's is guide and support our students as best we can.

DrivingsCool

DrivingTestTips: Brian wrote: »

I agree!!!

But we are not signing off on competency, it's including the ADIs in the system of learning which is out there now (learn to drive with mammy and/or daddy and only get lessons when your test is next week).
This means the learner can learn and practice as they are now BUT they will also need to get 12 hours of teaching from a qualified driving instructor.

That has to be a good thing; because at least ADIs have some input into what the learner is learning (not the parents bad habits)

I agree with most of what you say.

To sign off the 1-12 EDT and to give a student your car for their test to drive solely with a tester (that has no training of dual control), without them being competent in our opinion of completing the 12 EDT lessons, I feel that this is an incompetence on the part of the ADI. The RSA, yes want you to teach the given material but for too long are student drivers over trusted with a machine that they cant always control.

Its difficult to say what any of us will do in the given circumstance and I do respect what you say Brian, but I personally would like to take a stricter approach to that of safety and knowing that my student is 100% informed of the 12 EDT Lessons and that they can apply them to their driving before taking their test.

DrivingsCool

DrivingTestTips: Brian wrote: »

How are people learning all this at the moment? "there Not" as you know.

It will be hard for people to get going, but lets hope it helps in the long run.

AGREE!!

They're not learning alot of the above as they wont invest in lessons, because the stigma of having more than 10 lessons is that of a student that is slow or stupid and that's not the case.

Of all my lessons on this particular week, who are in preparation for their test, are all people who have failed their test already with none or very few lessons. This is not the fault of their previous instructor but the responsibility of the learner themselves and the laws and lack of training required for Learner Drivers, just as the EDT now states.

DrivingsCool

loobylou wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I WANT this to work. But for it to work it is going to need public backing. Most of what I've seen is aspirational pie in sky stuff dreamt up in an office in Sligo. If people do not get behind it,it will not work.
How do people learn this at the moment? Some take 3-4 lessons, some take no lessons, some drive accompanied, some don't. You and I both know this, the system is broke. But we must replace that system with something that has a good chance of working. I don't see what is being currently proposed as the best possible option.

Loobylou - I understand your grievances but try and see this as a positive. If you convey a negative message to these changes and to your students what positive change can that bring? None.

The changes are well thought out and the RSA needs to be supported as they are trying to help ADI's as business owners and as representative's of a scheme for safer driving. Surely you want to be part of this?

DrivingsCool

DrivingTestTips: Brian wrote: »

I would rather the EDT system than no system.

This system will make people take on learning in a proactive way and it will also do away with the rouge driving instructors.

Let's live in hope loobylou.

AGREE!!!

DrivingsCool

brian076 wrote: »

I fully agree with you. I think someone in the RSA who is trying to justify his existance, has dreamt up what he thinks is the best way of teaching pupils without first consulting ADI's. Sure there was a consultation process, but the decision had already been made to go ahead with this project long before any ADI had their say.

The whole thing is far too regimented and allows for no flexibility based on the knowledge or driving experience of the pupil. For example, I have 2 pupils at the moment who have newly issued Learner permits, but both of them had previously taken lessons in the UK, one of them is at test standard. If his LP was issued after 4th April he'd have to start from scratch, and I'd have to spend an hour explaining to him how the clutch works.

If you get a pupil who holds a full licence from a country outside the EU, they too will have to go thru all 12 modules, even though they won't have to wait 6 months to do their test. I've no idea how this will work.

It appears that as far as the RSA are concerned, every learner is 18 years old, living at home with mammy and daddy, who have endless time, knowledge and patience to teach their darlings how to drive.

It would have been so much easier for them to trust ADI's to provide 12 lessons tailored to the needs of each individual pupil, even if some of these were pre tests, and they could have provided a list of subjects or topics which must be covered, similar to the core competencies in Part 3 of the ADI test.

Wait times for test centre's across Ireland will decrease considerably in time I would expect as the 12 EDT Lessons are completed and the standard of pupil entering for their test will be better prepared, thus higher pass rates, and less students re-applying for their test 2nd,3rd and subsequent times, and not undertaking any or few lessons which is currently the cause of the extended periods.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

DrivingsCool

DrivingTestTips: Brian wrote: »

ADIs... its mandatory training. There has to be a syllabus.
If someone is good enough to do the EDT then they will fly through it.

The RSA don't care about the cost, experience, history in another country or anything, bar the number of people been killed on Irish roads.

Driving instructors have wanted this for years and now that it's coming in you are complaining. As Michael Dolan of the ADI Unit said, "you don't have to be an EDT instructor". If you don't want to do it, just continue as you are.

Sorry for letting off steam...

Brian - you have nothing to apologise for, everything you have said here is fact. I totally agree with you.

However Change is difficult but the sooner the ADI's realise that this change that is coming on 4/4/11 is positive and is here to stay, the sooner we can all move on.

If we havent learned anything in these past months in Ireland, we have learned that this is now a time to support each other, and to support our students, as being ADI's they are looking up to us for direction. I believe that we have a great team of ADI's who have sat difficult enough training to get us where we are now, and in time see Ireland as one of the safest driving nations in the world. I believe it.

DrivingsCool

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I don't want to say a lot in terms of current drivers as my thread is based on the explanation of the new EDT 12 Lessons. However, what you say is correct and I believe your heart is in the right place and I feel in the next few months as ADI's we can expect to see some drastic undertaking's by the Gardai and Insurance companies and of the RSA to bring upon the increase of Learner driver awareness and safety on Irish roads.

I feel very positive about these changes, and I really appreciate all the positive comments received in posts and PM's.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

DrivingsCool wrote: »

I agree with most of what you say.

To sign off the 1-12 EDT and to give a student your car for their test to drive solely with a tester (that has no training of dual control), without them being competent in our opinion of completing the 12 EDT lessons, I feel that this is an incompetence on the part of the ADI. The RSA, yes want you to teach the given material but for too long are student drivers over trusted with a machine that they cant always control.

Its difficult to say what any of us will do in the given circumstance and I do respect what you say Brian, but I personally would like to take a stricter approach to that of safety and knowing that my student is 100% informed of the 12 EDT Lessons and that they can apply them to their driving before taking their test.

I do agree!
I said at one of the meetings that we as instructors are looking for a standard of competency form the learner and we look for it because we are interested in the road safety side of what we do.

Learners will need a lot of practice and/or lessons; I just hope they all understand that.

brian076

DrivingsCool wrote: »

Wait times for test centre's across Ireland will decrease considerably in time I would expect as the 12 EDT Lessons are completed and the standard of pupil entering for their test will be better prepared, thus higher pass rates, and less students re-applying for their test 2nd,3rd and subsequent times, and not undertaking any or few lessons which is currently the cause of the extended periods.

I'm not sure why you quoted my post in your reply because it bears no relevance to the points I made.

On a seperate matter, and I apologise in advance if I'm wide of the mark, but are Drivingtest Tips & Drivingscool one and the same person. You both seem to agree with each other on every point, and the wording and phrasing in each post is remarkably similar.

deano546

Hey, I'm doing my theory test on the 1st of April, does this mean that I will subjected to the new system? Or could I possibly have my learner's permit by then (April 4th)? Cheers I'm a bit confused by all this

DrivingTestTips: Brian

brian076 wrote: »

On a seperate matter, and I apologise in advance if I'm wide of the mark, but are Drivingtest Tips & Drivingscool one and the same person. You both seem to agree with each other on every point, and the wording and phrasing in each post is remarkably similar.

NO Brian076 we are not the same person.

brian076 wrote:

I fully agree with you. I think someone in the RSA who is trying to justify his existance, has dreamt up what he thinks is the best way of teaching pupils without first consulting ADI's. Sure there was a consultation process, but the decision had already been made to go ahead with this project long before any ADI had their say.

The whole thing is far too regimented and allows for no flexibility based on the knowledge or driving experience of the pupil. For example, I have 2 pupils at the moment who have newly issued Learner permits, but both of them had previously taken lessons in the UK, one of them is at test standard. If his LP was issued after 4th April he'd have to start from scratch, and I'd have to spend an hour explaining to him how the clutch works.

If you get a pupil who holds a full licence from a country outside the EU, they too will have to go thru all 12 modules, even though they won't have to wait 6 months to do their test. I've no idea how this will work.

It appears that as far as the RSA are concerned, every learner is 18 years old, living at home with mammy and daddy, who have endless time, knowledge and patience to teach their darlings how to drive.

It would have been so much easier for them to trust ADI's to provide 12 lessons tailored to the needs of each individual pupil, even if some of these were pre tests, and they could have provided a list of subjects or topics which must be covered, similar to the core competencies in Part 3 of the ADI test.

For us to have mandatory training we must have a syllabus.
Or you end up with a situation where some people are great and only need 3 lessons and others need 5 and others need 25. BUT they are all required to do 12 with no way to track what is taught; you would still end up with people saying the ADI is trying to rip them off.
Don't get me wrong brian, I understand your points. I just think it should be tried before we knock it.