council seat

neiphin

http://www.midwestradio.ie/mwr/news/1621-four-candidates-confirmed-to-contest-michelle-mulherins-county-council-seat.html

"FOUR CANDIDATES HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED TO CONTEST THE MAYO COUNTY COUNCIL SEAT VACATED BY MICHELLE MULHERIN ON HER ELECTION TO THE DAIL.

THE FOUR CANDIDATES ARE TOWN CLLRS BARRY MCLOUGHLIN AND MARK WINTERS AND ALSO SEAN NEWCOMBE AND JOHN O’HARA."

in my opinion, a fg councilor in bunniconlon would be by far the best choice
http://www.irishshowsassociation.ie/images/JOHara.jpg

finisklin

How is it decided who receives this gift? Is it down to the local FG organsiation? Am I right in assuming that Mark Winters has a snow balls chance in hell of getting it, due to his acceptance of the mayorship in 2006/07 via FF town councillors? Thus shafting MM chances in the 2007 GE.

Just going on from what I read in the WP at the time.......

neiphin

as far as i know,
it being a "fg" seat, its withen the gift of the party, at what level i dont know i.e. at a county level or at a ballina area level

i dont know if had michelle been chairperson would she have done better
but winters certainly plunged the knife , handed to him by ff , it was well known that she would be a fg candidate in the general election
i think town councilor as beyond the limits of him

finisklin

Appointments made at a convention last night.

THE TWO COUNCIL SEATS LEFT VACANT BY THE ELECTION OF BALLINA-BASED MICHELLE MULHERIN TO DAIL EIREANN HAVE NOW BEEN FILLED, FOLLOWING FINE GAEL CO-OPTION CONVENTIONS HELD IN THE BALLINA MANOR HOTEL LAST NIGHT.
JOHN O’HARA FROM BONNICONLON WAS SELECTED TO TAKE THE SEAT ON MAYO COUNTY COUNCIL, DEFEATING TOWN COUNCILLORS BARRY McLOUGHLIN AND MARK WINTERS, AND SEAN NEWCOMBE.

WHILE JOSIE EGAN FROM HEALY TERRACE, BALLINA WAS CO-OPTED UNOPPOSED ONTO BALLINA TOWN COUNCIL.


http://www.midwestradio.ie/mwr/news/1649-michelle-mulherins-vacant-council-seats-have-been-filled.html

John O'Hara appointment is sticking it into a long held FF stronghold.....don't think Annie Mae will fancy that or DC.

I'm sure MM is disappointed in giving up her seat on Ballina TC. Debating motions against the calibre of politicians such as GG, PC, WN etc will leave a massive void in her political career. Though when you look at the Dail and Michael Healy Rae etc maybe not.....;):rolleyes:;)

neiphin

finisklin wrote: »

JOHN O’HARA FROM BONNICONLON WAS SELECTED TO TAKE THE SEAT ON MAYO COUNTY COUNCIL,

http://www.midwestradio.ie/mwr/news/1649-michelle-mulherins-vacant-council-seats-have-been-filled.html

John O'Hara appointment is sticking it into a long held FF stronghold.....don't think Annie Mae will fancy that or DC.

excellent news
http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.irishshowsassociation.ie/images/JOHara.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.irishshowsassociation.ie/president.asp&usg=__QKqApwOs2zM9Zx7xKlx6a6Vuors=&h=1166&w=796&sz=59&hl=en&start=3&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=IPxvBugj4mhEsM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=102&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djohn%2Bohara%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dopera%26sa%3DG%26rls%3Den%26channel%3Dsuggest%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=A1N-TbSAC4-WhQfKovCeAw

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

Appointments made at a convention last night.

THE TWO COUNCIL SEATS LEFT VACANT BY THE ELECTION OF BALLINA-BASED MICHELLE MULHERIN TO DAIL EIREANN HAVE NOW BEEN FILLED, FOLLOWING FINE GAEL CO-OPTION CONVENTIONS HELD IN THE BALLINA MANOR HOTEL LAST NIGHT.
JOHN O’HARA FROM BONNICONLON WAS SELECTED TO TAKE THE SEAT ON MAYO COUNTY COUNCIL, DEFEATING TOWN COUNCILLORS BARRY McLOUGHLIN AND MARK WINTERS, AND SEAN NEWCOMBE.

WHILE JOSIE EGAN FROM HEALY TERRACE, BALLINA WAS CO-OPTED UNOPPOSED ONTO BALLINA TOWN COUNCIL.


http://www.midwestradio.ie/mwr/news/1649-michelle-mulherins-vacant-council-seats-have-been-filled.html

John O'Hara appointment is sticking it into a long held FF stronghold.....don't think Annie Mae will fancy that or DC.

I'm sure MM is disappointed in giving up her seat on Ballina TC. Debating motions against the calibre of politicians such as GG, PC, WN etc will leave a massive void in her political career. Though when you look at the Dail and Michael Healy Rae etc maybe not.....;):rolleyes:;)

So suddenly the people of Bonniconlon will stop supporting Fianna Fail??? Don't hold your breath on that one. Ever wonder why even i9n the current climate it stayed so steadfastly Fianna Fail??

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

Appointments made at a convention last night.

THE TWO COUNCIL SEATS LEFT VACANT BY THE ELECTION OF BALLINA-BASED MICHELLE MULHERIN TO DAIL EIREANN HAVE NOW BEEN FILLED, FOLLOWING FINE GAEL CO-OPTION CONVENTIONS HELD IN THE BALLINA MANOR HOTEL LAST NIGHT.
JOHN O’HARA FROM BONNICONLON WAS SELECTED TO TAKE THE SEAT ON MAYO COUNTY COUNCIL, DEFEATING TOWN COUNCILLORS BARRY McLOUGHLIN AND MARK WINTERS, AND SEAN NEWCOMBE.

WHILE JOSIE EGAN FROM HEALY TERRACE, BALLINA WAS CO-OPTED UNOPPOSED ONTO BALLINA TOWN COUNCIL.


http://www.midwestradio.ie/mwr/news/1649-michelle-mulherins-vacant-council-seats-have-been-filled.html

John O'Hara appointment is sticking it into a long held FF stronghold.....don't think Annie Mae will fancy that or DC.

I'm sure MM is disappointed in giving up her seat on Ballina TC. Debating motions against the calibre of politicians such as GG, PC, WN etc will leave a massive void in her political career. Though when you look at the Dail and Michael Healy Rae etc maybe not.....;):rolleyes:;)

So suddenly the people of Bonniconlon will stop supporting Fianna Fail??? Don't hold your breath on that one. Ever wonder why even i9 the current climate it stayed so steadfastly Fianna Fail??

I think with her speaking ability she was ideally suited for the debates in the Town Council chamber. The Dail will probably be way beyond her.

finisklin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

So suddenly the people of Bonniconlon will stop supporting Fianna Fail??? Don't hold your breath on that one. Ever wonder why even i9n the current climate it stayed so steadfastly Fianna Fail??

Enlighten me......

neiphin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

So suddenly the people of Bonniconlon will stop supporting Fianna Fail??? Don't hold your breath on that one. Ever wonder why even i9 the current climate it stayed so steadfastly Fianna Fail??

I think with her speaking ability she was ideally suited for the debates in the Town Council chamber. The Dail will probably be way beyond her.

i take it your not a fan

annie may always had callery and even moffat by the leg
and of course bunni is a bit of a peninsula in itself

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

Enlighten me......

Perhaps people should enlighten themselves. History plays a huge part in Bonniconlon's politics. There is bitterness handed down over the generations that will not easily be washed away by handing a council seat to the Show chairperson.

HarryPotter41

neiphin wrote: »

i take it your not a fan

annie may always had callery and even moffat by the leg
and of course bunni is a bit of a peninsula in itself

I find a lot of people ( including Fine Gael people ) who have heard her speak would not be a huge fan and certainly would question her ability to debate. Hardly much in the way of outstanding contributions in her time on Mayo County Council and Ballina Town Council.

oscarBravo

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

There is bitterness handed down over the generations that will not easily be washed away...

Almost everything that's wrong with this country in a single sentence. Bravo.

HarryPotter41

oscarBravo wrote: »

Almost everything that's wrong with this country in a single sentence. Bravo.

Very flippant and judgemental when you don't know any of the circumstances of anyone who votes in a particular way for any party based on past issues.

oscarBravo

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Very flippant and judgemental when you don't know any of the circumstances of anyone who votes in a particular way for any party based on past issues.

I don't care, to be honest. If more people in this country figured out how to put the past behind them and spend a fraction of the same energy thinking about the future, we'd all be better off.

But wallowing in the mire of past transgressions seems to still be the national pastime, so carry on.

HarryPotter41

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't care, to be honest. If more people in this country figured out how to put the past behind them and spend a fraction of the same energy thinking about the future, we'd all be better off.

But wallowing in the mire of past transgressions seems to still be the national pastime, so carry on.

You seem to forget the socio-economic backgrounds of FF supporters are very different to your typical FG supporter and that is why a lot of that divide still exists particularly in rural Ireland. So yes, we will carry on.

oscarBravo

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

...FF supporters ... your typical FG supporter...

Those are pigeonholes that mean nothing to me. Of my entire spectrum of friends, colleagues and acquaintances, I could fit approximately two of them into one of those categories. I certainly couldn't identify which of them would be likely to fit into each category based on their socio-economic background.

Besides, regardless of background, don't we all have a shared interest in focusing on the future rather than the past?

HarryPotter41

oscarBravo wrote: »

Those are pigeonholes that mean nothing to me. Of my entire spectrum of friends, colleagues and acquaintances, I could fit approximately two of them into one of those categories. I certainly couldn't identify which of them would be likely to fit into each category based on their socio-economic background.

Besides, regardless of background, don't we all have a shared interest in focusing on the future rather than the past?

I do focus on the future, and I also focus on what party represents the background I come from in the best way. The same as every background does ( ie. business people, etc, etc ). All my decisions are made very consciously.

neiphin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

You seem to forget the socio-economic backgrounds of FF supporters are very different to your typical FG supporter

can you please explain that statement

finisklin

Was gonna try to answer that but perhaps better leave it to a member of either party or someone that has voted for either to explain.......

finisklin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Very flippant and judgemental when you don't know any of the circumstances of anyone who votes in a particular way for any party based on past issues.

This is really what is wrong with Irish politics......roll on the next election so that further distance can be put between this way of thinking and building for our children's future.

I find it hard to believe that the people of Bonniconlon are happy with the USC, more taxes/levies, emigration, unemployment of +14%, personal savings/investments fallen through the floor, a banking system that is draining the state coffers and tying us to European overloads who have no interest in Civil War politics in order to maintain a political divide based on previous generations actions etc. Lucky they are in a tiny minority, well as you said previous significantly less that FG 36%.

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

This is really what is wrong with Irish politics......roll on the next election so that further distance can be put between this way of thinking and building for our children's future.

I find it hard to believe that the people of Bonniconlon are happy with the USC, more taxes/levies, emigration, unemployment of +14%, personal savings/investments fallen through the floor, a banking system that is draining the state coffers and tying us to European overloads who have no interest in Civil War politics in order to maintain a political divide based on previous generations actions etc. Lucky they are in a tiny minority, well as you said previous significantly less that FG 36%.

Doesn't have to go back to civil war politics, a lot of the actions of any Fine Gael government would be seen as detrimental to people like those who live in Bonniconlon and lots of other small rural areas.

To answer whats meant by different socio economic groups, FF was ( and was could be said to be the proper word as it seriously lost its way ) the party of small farmers ( circa 40 to 60 acres ) and the working class, typically poorer working class. FG was traditionally a middle class party and a business party. In the minds of many people that has not changed and previous FG governments in the minds of many would have proved that. Certainly when I was growing up in the 80's you could pick a persons party affiliation by the size of their farm.

And don't cod yourself if you think the same bitterness does not exist amongst FG voters, it certainly does.

nuac

Harry Potter, I know many people in both FG and FF , sme for over 49 years.

I don' think there is any significant socio=economic difference between the supporters of either party

HarryPotter41

nuac wrote: »

Harry Potter, I know many people in both FG and FF , sme for over 49 years.

I don' think there is any significant socio=economic difference between the supporters of either party

And probably many supporters of each party would disagree with you. Thats the beauty of opinions.

neiphin

neiphin wrote: »

can you please explain that statement

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

And probably many supporters of each party would disagree with you. Thats the beauty of opinions.

again i will ask you
to explain those socio-economic differences
that YOU maintain strengthens your argument

kippy

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

And probably many supporters of each party would disagree with you. Thats the beauty of opinions.

They'd like to think there is a difference between their socio economic backgrounds but theres very obviously not.

HarryPotter41

neiphin wrote: »

again i will ask you
to explain those socio-economic differences
that YOU maintain strengthens your argument

I explained it above but here goes again, FF votes over the years came from small farmer ( 50 odd acres ), poor working class, particularly the poor in the rural areas. FG offered them nothing because it was the party of big business and the wealthier farmers of the country. That's why FF was so strong for so many years in rural Ireland in particular. In my opinion very little has changed. But that's just my opinion.

neiphin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I explained it above but here goes again, FF votes over the years came from small farmer ( 50 odd acres ), poor working class, particularly the poor in the rural areas. FG offered them nothing because it was the party of big business and the wealthier farmers of the country. That's why FF was so strong for so many years in rural Ireland in particular. In my opinion very little has changed. But that's just my opinion.

thats a load of bollix, and you know it

did all the small farmers in dublin who used to vote ff become big farmers ?
is mayo now a county of big buisness people ?

i think your mammy told you a few stereo types , and you cannot get away from that

HarryPotter41

neiphin wrote: »

thats a load of bollix, and you know it

did all the small farmers in dublin who used to vote ff become big farmers ?
is mayo now a county of big buisness people ?

i think your mammy told you a few stereo types , and you cannot get away from that

Its actually not a load of b****x, my mother was never involved in politics in her life, she went in and voted and never even told my Dad how she voted so thats b****x.

I have spent 25 years involved in politics and have talked to plenty of people from all sides of the political divide and argued with some and have many friends amongst them. Its a measured opinion from experience. Dublin is a city, working class vote, maybe you noticed that Fine Gael only took around 30% of the vote in Dublin. Large parts of it were swallowed up by Labour, Socialist Party, People Before Profit and Sinn Fein - all working class parties so no, Dublin did not turn into a city of large farmers. It voted for left wing politics. Mayo voted for a Mayo Taoiseach in droves this time and they voted against Fianna Fail, including a lot of lifetime FF people, out of anger. FG only secured 36.1% of the vote nationwide, they got a seat bounce on the back of the low support for other parties, so hardly a resounding endorsement either.

I am well grounded in the reality of politics and spend time discussing it in real life, not on here.

neiphin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Dublin is a city, working class vote, maybe you noticed that Fine Gael only took around 30% of the vote in Dublin.

Large parts of it were swallowed up by Labour, Socialist Party, People Before Profit and Sinn Fein - all working class parties so no, Dublin did not turn into a city of large farmers. It voted for left wing politics. Mayo voted for a Mayo Taoiseach in droves this time

I am well grounded in the reality of politics and spend time discussing it in real life, not on here.

did , tipperary , kerry.sligo, leitrim , roscommon, waterford, wicklow
vote in droves for a mayo taoiseach

are leitrim and roscommon full of big farmers ?

HarryPotter41

neiphin wrote: »

did , tipperary , kerry.sligo, leitrim , roscommon, waterford, wicklow
vote in droves for a mayo taoiseach

are leitrim and roscommon full of big farmers ?

Again look at the FG figures, the actual vote received by that party will answer your question - Tipperary FG 22%, Kerry FG 24%, Sligo - North Leitrim FG 36.9%, Roscommon-South Leitrim FG 38.5%, Waterford 38%, Wicklow FG 39.6%. Not resounding successes in a lot of the places you quote for FG and the higher areas were always favourable towards FG, you seem fixated on the farming vote while neglecting the middle class/business vote they have always got.

neiphin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Again look at the FG figures, the actual vote received by that party will answer your question - Tipperary FG 22%, Kerry FG 24%, Sligo - North Leitrim FG 36.9%, Roscommon-South Leitrim FG 38.5%, Waterford 38%, Wicklow FG 39.6%. Not resounding successes in a lot of the places you quote for FG and the higher areas were always favourable towards FG, you seem fixated on the farming vote while neglecting the middle class/business vote they have always got.

so where was the small farmer ( sub 50 acre ) vote for ff

HarryPotter41

neiphin wrote: »

so where was the small farmer ( sub 50 acre ) vote for ff

Like the working class vote it was included in the 17.8% nationwide, it also went to the independents and the harder line republican element of it went to Sinn Fein.

I am just curious as to when you plan on backing up your assertions with a few facts seeing as I am backing mine up with stats, it would be helpful.

neiphin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Like the working class vote it was included in the 17.8% nationwide, it also went to the independents and the harder line republican element of it went to Sinn Fein.

I am just curious as to when you plan on backing up your assertions with a few facts seeing as I am backing mine up with stats, it would be helpful.

let me put it to you this way

1n 1999 ff won 6 seats in europe, in 2009 just 3
in the 2009 council election ff lost almost 1/3 of their seats
in the 2007 election ff won 78 seats, in 2011 down to 20 lost 3/4 of their seats
my point
is that ff have been loosing support consistently and that the socio economic classes that you cling to your bosom , have abandoned you
the small farmer was abandoned by ff for the big builder , he was taken for granted, he was shafted in favour of carbon taxes and smoking bans

HarryPotter41

neiphin wrote: »

let me put it to you this way

1n 1999 ff won 6 seats in europe, in 2009 just 3
in the 2009 council election ff lost almost 1/3 of their seats
in the 2007 election ff won 78 seats, in 2011 down to 20 lost 3/4 of their seats
my point
is that ff have been loosing support consistently and that the socio economic classes that you cling to your bosom , have abandoned you
the small farmer was abandoned by ff for the big builder , he was taken for granted, he was shafted in favour of carbon taxes and smoking bans

I agree wholeheartedly with the abandonment of the FF core vote, but the smoking ban is one of the best things that FF achieved. My figures also show that they have not flooded to FG. Which is my point. Not a natural home for a FF voter.

kippy

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly with the abandonment of the FF core vote, but the smoking ban is one of the best things that FF achieved. My figures also show that they have not flooded to FG. Which is my point. Not a natural home for a FF voter.

So tell me, how many "Core" FF voters are left in the country and what is their age profile?

HarryPotter41

kippy wrote: »

So tell me, how many "Core" FF voters are left in the country and what is their age profile?

More than the 17.8%, there was extreme anger amongst FF supporters and many voted for SF or Independents. The age profile is a lot younger than people would like to think, FF is like most parties, attracts votes from all age ranges, though this time a lot of the vote that stuck with it was the older hard core.

kippy

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

More than the 17.8%, there was extreme anger amongst FF supporters and many voted for SF or Independents. The age profile is a lot younger than people would like to think, FF is like most parties, attracts votes from all age ranges, though this time a lot of the vote that stuck with it was the older hard core.

I thought there was a socio economic background thing that defined them as well......
So the older ones are the "hard core" while the younger ones are more likely to swing?

finisklin

kippy wrote: »

So the older ones are the "hard core" while the younger ones are more likely to swing?

What exactly are we discussing here.....:rolleyes:

HarryPotter41

kippy wrote: »

I thought there was a socio economic background thing that defined them as well......
So the older ones are the "hard core" while the younger ones are more likely to swing?

They voted against Fianna Fail, generally not for Fine Gael. Fine Gael's vote went up 8.8% from the previous election, Fianna Fail's vote dropped by 23.8%, statistically if any FF voters switched to Fine Gael they were very few, so they went to other candidates who were closer to their beliefs and values. As the debate is in relation to the difference between FG and FF supporters how much more information do I have to provide.

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

What exactly are we discussing here.....:rolleyes:

With what you're thinking I hope to God the oul ones wouldn't be swinging :eek:

kippy

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

They voted against Fianna Fail, generally not for Fine Gael. Fine Gael's vote went up 8.8% from the previous election, Fianna Fail's vote dropped by 23.8%, statistically if any FF voters switched to Fine Gael they were very few, so they went to other candidates who were closer to their beliefs and values. As the debate is in relation to the difference between FG and FF supporters how much more information do I have to provide.

You used the socio economic background to differentiate between both sets of "hard core" supporters. Are you saying that these backgrounds have now changed as well?
Fianna Fail picked up a lot of "supporters" in the past decade or so because they were giving away money hand over fist - these "supporters" dont support any party as such, just the ones that are doing best for them - that had been the case, then people have copped onto the very short term nature of this way of voting.

HarryPotter41

kippy wrote: »

You used the socio economic background to differentiate between both sets of "hard core" supporters. Are you saying that these backgrounds have now changed as well?
Fianna Fail picked up a lot of "supporters" in the past decade or so because they were giving away money hand over fist - these "supporters" dont support any party as such, just the ones that are doing best for them - that had been the case, then people have copped onto the very short term nature of this way of voting.

You will find the use of the phrase hard core is yours, not mine

kippy

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

You will find the use of the phrase hard core is yours, not mine

Well if the 17% of the vote that FF got this time around werent the "Hard core" support - what were they?

HarryPotter41

kippy wrote: »

Well if the 17% of the vote that FF got this time around werent the "Hard core" support - what were they?

They were hard core, FF's core vote is generally considered to be somewhere in the region of 25%, FG slightly below that, all the rest are floating voters, they are the people who would not ever support the other party. FF's core vote was very angry this time, but did not desert to Fine Gael. They wanted to punish Fianna Fail for its arrogance and did so.

Reillyman

I could have been told wrong but we were always told by varying history/politics teachers that the majority of farmers in Ireland support FG. This is due to DeValera's policies which led to the economic war with Britain, causing a lot of hardship for farmers throughout Ireland.

HarryPotter41

Reillyman wrote: »

I could have been told wrong but we were always told by varying history/politics teachers that the majority of farmers in Ireland support FG. This is due to DeValera's policies which led to the economic war with Britain, causing a lot of hardship for farmers throughout Ireland.

Larger farmers, yes

oscarBravo

Reillyman wrote: »

This is due to DeValera's policies...

Anyone whose vote in 2011 is in any way, shape or form informed by DeValera's policies is suffering from the sort of over-long memory syndrome that I was complaining about earlier.

In the second decade of the 21st century, describing Fine Gael as the party of larger farmers is so laughable it's hard to believe anyone could say it with a straight face.

So if someone won't vote for Fine Gael because of past policies, well, that perfectly illustrates my point about what's wrong with the country.

finisklin

oscarBravo wrote: »

Anyone whose vote in 2011 is in any way, shape or form informed by DeValera's policies is suffering from the sort of over-long memory syndrome that I was complaining about earlier.

At least Dev didn't have to contend with any traffic problems or transport policy development of note.......;)

HarryPotter41

oscarBravo wrote: »

Anyone whose vote in 2011 is in any way, shape or form informed by DeValera's policies is suffering from the sort of over-long memory syndrome that I was complaining about earlier.

In the second decade of the 21st century, describing Fine Gael as the party of larger farmers is so laughable it's hard to believe anyone could say it with a straight face.

So if someone won't vote for Fine Gael because of past policies, well, that perfectly illustrates my point about what's wrong with the country.

People vote for then because of policies, most of which are pretty much the same as they have been for years. The discussion was illustrating that FG and FF appeal to a different base. Plenty of statistics above to show that FF voters did not particularly switch to FG. There is no one trying to prove that they are voting because of past policies. The drop in the FF vote is purely because of policies for the last 14 years.

finisklin

Is there an inference then that if FF adopt the right policies that these previous FF voters will return at the next GE?

I am not sure about this.....I think the GE just gone is akin to the Civil War where people's DNA has altered to exclude FF. A seismic change has happened in how people view FF that is not going to change over the next few years, people will pass this view on to their kids and so on.

Though if FG have to make significant, adverse decisions that are poorly implemented with a two fingers salute may undue this, IMHO.

Interested to hear what people think on this.....

oscarBravo

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

People vote for then because of policies, most of which are pretty much the same as they have been for years.

What specific policies of the current coalition government are discriminatory against FF-supporting socio-economic groups?