The legality of handcuffs

air assault

Can any one please tell me is it illegal for people outisde of the Guards, Prison service and the Military police to use handcuffs.

By this i mean is it illegal for a security guard or a member of the public to carry them

goldie fish

air assault wrote: »

Can any one please tell me is it illegal for people outisde of the Guards, Prison service and the Military police to use handcuffs.

By this i mean is it illegal for a security guard or a member of the public to carry them

I would say while it is not illegal as such, you need to be very sure that you have the right to restrain someone with them if you detain them for something.
Of course you could have them for "leisure" purposes.

angelfire9

I have a pair of pink fluffy ones

I wonder will my hubby have to arrest me?

Locust

Don't think they are illegal to carry, provided you have a reasonable excuse to carry them. If you are stopped by Gardai and for example are found with handcuffs and airsoft/imitation weapons in the car, you can expect to get arrested and spend the day in the station answering questions. Handcuffs would be illegal to use in many situations a security guard might face (as you mentioned) - you really need to know your law if your using them in this role and you won't have much backing if complaints come a rolling in...

detective

If you have the power to arrest someone you have the power to use handcuffs. However, I would not use them if I was a civilian as you're leaving yourself open to a civil suit where you'll be asked "what training had you in using cuffs".

Locust

Someone who's not trained in use of force or the legal side of things may not know when to arrest or not arrest. I'd be thinking of this in terms of a member of the public making 'a citizens arrest' this must be done for an arrestable offence - an offence which carried a penalty of 5 years or more, grand use handcuffs if you need them. However what power does a security guard have to detain someone for say... public order offences? And with the use of hand cuffs could this be further evidence of assault or false imprisonment?

Civillians and security guards not being able to use handcuffs is another one of those silly laws that shouldn't exist.

In my own opinion, anyone, be they a Garda, Fire Officer, security guard, bouncer, cleaner, unemployed, or retail sales assistant, should be entitled to use handcuffs or other such restraining device when it is necessary to do so.

My Dad does security in a pharmacy, and every now and again you get some scumbag in throwing punches and screaming at the top of his lungs because he wants tablets or such that he can't have. Getting the person to the ground and having to keep them down could be made a lot easier with handcuffs.


I don't believe they should be issued to people or staff who aren't Gardaì, but I don't think there should be any law against people purchasing them to use for the purpose of restraint.

goldie fish

Deleted User wrote: »

Civillians and security guards not being able to use handcuffs is another one of those silly laws that shouldn't exist.

In my own opinion, anyone, be they a Garda, Fire Officer, security guard, bouncer, cleaner, unemployed, or retail sales assistant, should be entitled to use handcuffs or other such restraining device when it is necessary to do so.

My Dad does security in a pharmacy, and every now and again you get some scumbag in throwing punches and screaming at the top of his lungs because he wants tablets or such that he can't have. Getting the person to the ground and having to keep them down could be made a lot easier with handcuffs.


I don't believe they should be issued to people or staff who aren't Gardaì, but I don't think there should be any law against people purchasing them to use for the purpose of restraint.

So you are saying that a law that doesnt exist, shouldnt exist.


Heres the point>>>.



Here's you missing it.

























>>>>>>>:pac:

Odysseus

Deleted User wrote: »

Civillians and security guards not being able to use handcuffs is another one of those silly laws that shouldn't exist.

In my own opinion, anyone, be they a Garda, Fire Officer, security guard, bouncer, cleaner, unemployed, or retail sales assistant, should be entitled to use handcuffs or other such restraining device when it is necessary to do so.

My Dad does security in a pharmacy, and every now and again you get some scumbag in throwing punches and screaming at the top of his lungs because he wants tablets or such that he can't have. Getting the person to the ground and having to keep them down could be made a lot easier with handcuffs.


I don't believe they should be issued to people or staff who aren't Gardaì, but I don't think there should be any law against people purchasing them to use for the purpose of restraint.

I don't know it's a very difficult one. In general I agree with your theory that is if a person can prove that they needed to restrain another person for their safety or that of another’s; that they should not have to fear the law. For example, I caught a guy climbing out of my neighbours front window a few years ago, I let him go after about 20 mins, as it was going to get too messy to keep him there whilst I was waiting for ES.

In other words if I was going to hold him any longer I would have had to get a lot more physical. Whereas I was confident of my abilities to restrain him, I let him go because I did not want to end up with a conviction. More than likely this would not have occurred; but as a civilian in such circumstances you need to be aware of the position you could end up in.

However, then I reflect on the example you provide, I work in a methadone clinical; so we deal with the ones barred from community chemists and those deemed unsuitable for treatment in the community due to their behaviour. If our general assistants where down a man, we used to have security into cover. We also used to have security on the door.

My experience was that most of the guys we ended up with where poorly trained, had very strong prejudices against our clients [everyone is entitled to their personal opinion, but you leave that outside of work] and where often a liability when things kicked off, taking the shouting and mouthing personally and sometimes making the situation more difficult to control. Now that is just my personal experience and it would be unfair to make a generalisation about it. I did find that their de-escalation skills where in general very poor, which makes life so much more difficult. Sometimes people skills can be much more effective than having to resort to use of force or restraint.

So this leaves me in a situation where I think as a citizen a person who fears for their safety should have nothing to fear, but I dislike the thoughts of security or bouncer’s using them. I know things are changing but my experience of security workers would make me inclined to say that they don't have the training to do it, and therefore should not be doing it.

With saying that in Spain you often see security carry cuffs and batons, well in the airport; but they are private security. However, I don't know what type of training they receive. I have done security work in the past, I was grateful for the work as it really helped me pay my way through college, but I would have received next to no training.

As it has been pointed out, anybody can buy cuffs but legally I would be very careful as a civilian in using them. I have had people suggest to me that I should have plastic ties in my office in case a client kicks off; I have my own drills and stuff around that. However, the fact that people would suggest that to me, sends a warning signal off about the average person’s thoughts around the legality of holding someone against their will.

Sorry for the long post and I hope there is some sense in it; but it’s a difficult topic and they last thing a person wants is to end up in court, when they where merely trying to protect themselves.

Irish_Elect_Eng

Handcuffs are only one design of restraint. If it were illegal to carry cuffs then would it be illegal to carry cable-ties or a length of rope or chain. So it is really all about what you do with them rather than actual possession.

source

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

Handcuffs are only one design of restraint. If it were illegal to carry cuffs then would it be illegal to carry cable-ties or a length of rope or chain. So it is really all about what you do with them rather than actual possession.

Actually no it wouldn't mean that at all. Cable ties, rope and chain all have uses beyond restraining a person (for whatever reason ).

goldie fish

foinse wrote: »

Actually no it wouldn't mean that at all. Cable ties, rope and chain all have uses beyond restraining a person (for whatever reason ).

So do handcuffs....................................................

source

goldie fish wrote: »

So do handcuffs....................................................

Go on, what designed uses do handcuffs have besides restraining people?

1922

foinse wrote: »

Go on, what designed uses do handcuffs have besides restraining people?

if a cyclist had a pair, he could cuff his bike onto something to go into the shop!!!!

now!

source

ah but thats not a designed use. cable ties are designed to, tie cables together..... shock horror. rope is designed for many many things, as are chains.

handcuffs are designed for one purpose only, the restraint of a person.

Shield

Boo-urns. Unfairly worded. What "designed use" does anything have other than its original intended use? A baseball bat wasn't "designed" to be used as an offensive weapon, even though it can be, or people can have the intent to.

foinse wrote: »

Go on, what designed uses do handcuffs have besides restraining people?

source

a poster said that cable ties, rope and chain should be outlawed if handcuffs were outlawed for the general population, as these can be used to restrain a person. I'm merely trying to say that because these items were not designed with the intent of restraining a person, that this would not be the case.

Shield

He's got a point though. It's all about intent. If you find a pair of handcuffs on Mrs psni, and said "what are these for?", and she replied "Mr psni is in for a spanking tonight, whether he likes it or not", you'd have to let her go.

If the reply was: "to detain anyone who may have committed a crime who I might encounter today", then they would have to be taken from her because of her intent to apply what could be unreasonable force, AKA assault.

source

I don't agree that intent has anything to do with whether or not ropes, chains and cable ties should be outlawed because it may be used to restrain a person. There's already legislation in place to deal with that.

Ropes, chains and cable ties are designed to be multi purpose items, Handcuffs are not.


Let me put it this way, should lighters and matches be outlawed? IF not then why not? can they not be used to commit arson? Can screwdrivers not be used to stab people? You cannot outlaw an item because of the intent of some users.

However it becomes easier to outlaw an item when it has a fixed designed purpose, ie handcuffs - restraint, Samurai swords - cutting people, cocaine - getting high etc etc.

Delancey

psni wrote: »

If you find a pair of handcuffs on Mrs psni, and said "what are these for?", and she replied "Mr psni is in for a spanking tonight, whether he likes it or not",

Geez psni , I didn't know that Deadwood had got around to corrupting your morals

goldie fish

foinse wrote: »

Go on, what designed uses do handcuffs have besides restraining people?

I see you are not known for your imagination in the bedroom.....

source

So when you cuff some bird to the bed that's not restraining them?

goldie fish

foinse wrote: »

So when you cuff some bird to the bed that's not restraining them?

Your answer proves my point.

shampon

foinse wrote: »

So when you cuff some bird to the bed that's not restraining them?

Nah, it's better to have the bird handcuff you...

Zambia

Well look at it this way if as a serving member would you say anything to a security guard carrying cuffs.

discus

shampon wrote: »

Nah, it's better to have the bird handcuff you...

I'm laughing now, but I wasn't then! :eek:

alexlyons

Can I just point something out...

Handcuffs
hand... cuffs...

they are designed for restraining people...



or watches

Shield

alexlyons wrote: »

they are designed for restraining people...

...if you're lucky!

goldie fish

alexlyons wrote: »

Can I just point something out...

Handcuffs
hand... cuffs...

they are designed for restraining people...



or watches

what about Cufflinks?

Cuff....Links...:rolleyes:

Shield

goldie fish wrote: »

what about Cufflinks?

Cuff....Links...:rolleyes:

I'm listening, I'm listening...

480905

1922 wrote: »

if a cyclist had a pair, he could cuff his bike onto something to go into the shop!!!!

now!

Products - Bike Locks - 8200D - Master Lock®

Just like these

TransplantedDub

Until the system allows for licensing of security officers, with manditory training, strict guidelines on how to detain for transfer to police.......any form of restraint device is out. Security guards act as an "agent" of their employer, secure the premises/ property, observe, record and call the Guards.....the uniforms and stuff...all phsycological.....fools the "clients" (sorta).... I know it is frustrating for a security officer, and yes a physical tirade might be avoided...but there ya go, thats how it is..

buster2k14

Hi i am am a Security officer in Ireland and also have my UK Security license and in UK i can legally carry and use handcuffs as a security officer or bouncer as you call it witch is actually 'Door Supervisor' unless your in the role on the front line then you don't know what security go through you get needles put to your head you get spat at you get assaulted you get knifes and guns to your head so you don't think security here don't need them ??? well your obviously one these Goodie goodies...

TransplantedDub

Was an MP in DF....never used them...also did security work pre-1989.....In Ireland....unless your a sworn officer (with the powers of arrest) Garda Siochana, Airport Police, Harbour Police...Prison Service, and DF Military Police....you don't have the authority to use them....you leave yourself open to lawsuits (and prosecution) for false imprisonment ......might fly in another EU country but not Ireland.....if you feel you need to use handcuffs....become a Police Officer.
Go ahead and try it....and a free legal aid barrister defending one of those gangster wannabes will show you your hat.....

RiderOnTheStorm

buster2k14 wrote:

Hi i am am a Security officer in Ireland and also have my UK Security license and in UK i can legally carry and use handcuffs as a security officer or bouncer as you call it witch is actually 'Door Supervisor' unless your in the role on the front line then you don't know what security go through you get needles put to your head you get spat at you get assaulted you get knifes and guns to your head so you don't think security here don't need them ??? well your obviously one these Goodie goodies...

Did a 7 year old thread annoy you so much at 3 in the morning that you just had to tell the world about it?