Insurance company forgot to contact me.

CiniO

I made some modifications for my wife's car.
AFAIK insurance companies require to inform them about any changes.
So my wife went to one of the insurance company branches, gave her insurance details and informed about modifications.
Lady at desk had no clue about what these modifications are, so she was trying to ring someone. After few tries, she couldn't reach the person, so she said she will write an email to check, and someone will ring my wife tomorrow to let her know if there's any increase in premium. Fair enough.
But what actually happened - no one rang the next day, neither the day after, nor for the next few days.

I'm quite sure that she just forgot about the whole thing.
But what now?
My wife has now absolutely no interest in contacting them again to clarify the whole situation. She did her part (informed them), and they didn't give a sh...

What would you do.
Would any of you contact insurance company again and say again about modifications and probably suffer premium increase, or leave it as it is.

She did what she was supposed to do (informed them) so she is clear.
Only problem is that she doesn't really have any proof that she informed them.

On the other hand, even if they rang back to say there was no extra charge in premium, she still wouldn't have any proof that she informed them.

What's your advice?

Owen

She needs to chase them, simple as. You're technically uninsured IMHO.

GTDolanator

how severe are the mod's?

CiniO

PaintDoctor wrote: »

She needs to chase them, simple as. You're technically uninsured IMHO.

But in the policy it says that she needs to "let them know about any modifications."
Not to be chasing them until someone in there will kindly move his butt and do something.

CiniO

GTDolanator wrote: »

how severe are the mod's?

Lowering springs + strut brace.

Owen

You're forgetting about the utmost good faith clause.

CiniO

PaintDoctor wrote: »

You're forgetting about the utmost good faith clause.

what is it?

Owen

It means simply that you need to be very honest with the company, and be certain they have all the information to insure you properly.

eilo1

Send an email,
That way you have proof you contacted them regardless of weather or not they come back to you.

Make sure you document all previous contact with them on this issue. After that its out of your hands and their negligence if they dont come back to you. You will be covering your back.

Just make sure you save a copy of the sent email!

Owen

I don't think an email would qualify as proof of contact. It could be mistaken as spam by the company's filters. A fax, or written letter. Or just a simple followup call.

CiniO

eilo1 wrote: »

Send an email,
That way you have proof you contacted them regardless of weather or not they come back to you.

Make sure you document all previous contact with them on this issue. After that its out of your hands and their negligence if they dont come back to you. You will be covering your back.

Just make sure you save a copy of the sent email!

That's actually very go idea.
I'll go for it!.
Thanks for advice.

PS. I'm 90% sure they won't bother reading emails as well.

CiniO

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I don't think an email would qualify as proof of contact. It could be mistaken as spam by the company's filters. A fax, or written letter. Or just a simple followup call.

They can say as well that they didn't receive fax as there was no ink in their fax machine, and written letter could always be lost in the post.
Come on. If they spam filter throws away my email, that's their problem. It's their spam filter not mine. My spam filter works perfectly

Ringing them usually takes about 30 minutes to wait on line until someone answers. I don't want to spend any money on calls anymore.

Owen

With a fax, you an get a received confirmation, and you can register a letter. Why are you insistent on doing the minimum to sort your insurance out? I don't get it ...

eilo1

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I don't think an email would qualify as proof of contact. It could be mistaken as spam by the company's filters. A fax, or written letter. Or just a simple followup call.

Most companied have an email form on the "contact us" section of their website. Just do a print screen on it. You should also get an email confirming that they received your inquiry.

And if there was a question over receiving the email the fact that you have listed all previous contact with the insurer will help your case as well.

A written letter wont get you anywhere as there is no proof of what you sent. Same problem with a fax, plus with a fax you never know who picked it up in the office. As you have no contact person to be "attention of"

eilo1

CiniO wrote: »

That's actually very go idea.
I'll go for it!.
Thanks for advice.

PS. I'm 90% sure they won't bother reading emails as well.

Your welcome good luck with it.

There is nothing more annoying than companies that dont get back to you!:mad:

CiniO

PaintDoctor wrote: »

With a fax, you an get a received confirmation, and you can register a letter. Why are you insistent on doing the minimum to sort your insurance out? I don't get it ...

The reason is obvious.
I don't like the idea to pay more for insurance just because the car was modified.
Before modification car had old suspension, barely on limit of passing NCT.
Now I got new shocks, new lowering springs, new wishbones, new tie rods, strut brace, and few other things.
Car is way more safe to drive now. Suspension is just perfect for a windy mountain road, where it's driven mostly. Stock suspension was not suitable for that kind of roads.

But I suspect that even the car is safer, they will ask me (my wife) to pay more, which I find unfair.
So if the opportunity appeared that I did all I had and they failed, so I'm looking for a way to exploit the situation to avoid paying, as it's their fault they forgot to ring back.

martin46585

If your car was to be in an accident, it's would be at this stage that an assessor Would note these mods and cross reference them with the certificate of insurance, it would then make the very small issue of a call back a rather bigger one, in these times of smaller margins for the insurance companies, many are going to haggle hard on pay outs, so dot your I,s and cross your tee's for peace of mind if nothing else.........

Owen

CiniO wrote: »

The reason is obvious.
I don't like the idea to pay more for insurance just because the car was modified.

Then take the Mods off. Either contact the Insurance company properly, or your wife, children, and anyone they hit will be uninsured.

CiniO

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Then take the Mods off. Either contact the Insurance company properly, or your wife, children, and anyone they hit will be uninsured.

Not everything is so black and white as you see it.
I did contact insurance company properly (visit in one of their branches, spend there 15 minutes). What else do they expect me to do? Maybe I should be sending them Christmas cards...

The whole insurance industry in Ireland is a complete rip-off, and from some answers in this thread, I have a feeling that it's just accepted as it is...

In most EU countries insurance companies are competing on the market to get customers.
In Ireland it looks like customers are struggling to get a gracious cover from very pride insurance companies.

I just hate it as it works here.

Owen

You've already said you want to exploit the system, you don't way to pay more money, and that you're fairly confident the Insurance co are unaware of your Mods. You are actually defrauding the Insurance company, and telling google all about it. If you have a serious accident, you're screwed.

scoobymunster

Agree with PaintDoctor. OP it's simple: if you don't bother getting the mods placed on the insurance cert, your paying a large amount for a worthless piece of paper. If you end up making an insurance claim, they will refuse to payout. Until your insurance cert reflects your car, the car isn't really insured. Follow it up, and you can argue that the mods are more of a safety point of view etc. they may let you off, they may charge you a premium. Either way it's far safer to ensure your paying insurance that actually covers the car, and not risk finding out after having an accident.

CiniO

PaintDoctor wrote: »

You've already said you want to exploit the system, you don't way to pay more money, and that you're fairly confident the Insurance co are unaware of your Mods. You are actually defrauding the Insurance company, and telling google all about it. If you have a serious accident, you're screwed.

Yes, that's true. I want to exploit the system because I don't want to pay more money. And I don't see anything wrong with it, so far as it's legal.
Maybe I'm not fully confident, but I have a good reason to believe that insurance company don't know about the mods, but I absolutely deny that I'm defrauding Insurance company, as I did everything what I should have done, and only reason why insurance company might not know about the mods is that they employ incompetent people. But that's really not my problem - but theirs.

My problem here is only that I don't have a proof that I informed them, but the email will sort this problem, as I was advices here already.

CiniO

scoobymunster wrote: »

Agree with PaintDoctor. OP it's simple: if you don't bother getting the mods placed on the insurance cert, your paying a large amount for a worthless piece of paper. If you end up making an insurance claim, they will refuse to payout. Until your insurance cert reflects your car, the car isn't really insured. Follow it up, and you can argue that the mods are more of a safety point of view etc. they may let you off, they may charge you a premium. Either way it's far safer to ensure your paying insurance that actually covers the car, and not risk finding out after having an accident.

I wasn't aware that modification have to be specified in the insurance certificate.
Good to know.
Thanks.

-Chris-

CiniO wrote: »

Would any of you contact insurance company again and say again about modifications and probably suffer premium increase, or leave it as it is.

Yes, absolutely definitely I'd contact them.

Until I had something in my hand from them that stated they were aware of the mods, I'd chase them.

Poor customer service is a terrible thing, but I'd never allow myself to be exposed financially or legally (which is what you'd be doing if you didn't follow up, imho) by virtue of the fact that someone else is poor at their job.

You need to call/write/email them back. And if you don't get a response this time you need to escalate it to a level of management where you get a response.

my €0.02

mdebets

CiniO wrote: »

Not everything is so black and white as you see it.
I did contact insurance company properly (visit in one of their branches, spend there 15 minutes). What else do they expect me to do?

While this is technically true, how are you going to proof this?
Do you think your insurance company will just accept your word as proof?
Chase the insurance company until you have a letter stating that they are aware of these mods and how much you have to pay for it.

-Chris-

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, that's true. I want to exploit the system because I don't want to pay more money. And I don't see anything wrong with it, so far as it's legal.

It's not legal.

If you use your car on a public road when you're not insured, that's illegal.

I'd be fairly sure there's an extension of that law that says it's your responsibility to be fully insured.

CiniO

-Chris- wrote: »

It's not legal.

If you use your car on a public road when you're not insured, that's illegal.

I'd be fairly sure there's an extension of that law that says it's your responsibility to be fully insured.

It's my responsibility to be insured - that's definitely right.

I have a certificate which states that I'm insured.
A policy states I have to inform insurance company of any modifications and so I did.
I fulfilled all my responsibilities.

Owen

As much as you want it to be true, you're not insured.

-Chris-

CiniO wrote: »

It's my responsibility to be insured - that's definitely right.

I have a certificate which states that I'm insured.
A policy states I have to inform insurance company of any modifications and so I did.
I fulfilled all my responsibilities.

Re-read your own post.

It's your responsibility to make sure you're correctly insured.

You know you informed the insurance company of information, but that they mislaid this information or otherwise failed to act on it. You know they're not fully aware of the facts about your car (through their own fault).

So, if you're driving the car while knowing that the insurance company doesn't have the full information about your car (through their own fault), have you fulfilled all of your responsibilities?


It is their mistake, but it's your responsibility to ensure they fix the mistake, and it's your responsibility to not use the car in a public place until the mistake is fixed.

mdebets

CiniO wrote: »

It's my responsibility to be insured - that's definitely right.

I have a certificate which states that I'm insured.
A policy states I have to inform insurance company of any modifications and so I did.
I fulfilled all my responsibilities.

No, you are not insured and have no policy that states that you are insured.

You have a policy that states you are insured for a car of the make A with engine B. This consists of parts C, D, E.
You now have however a still a car of the make A with engine B. But it now contains parts C, D, F. SO you are no longer insured.

And about the car being saver and that you therefore shouldn't have to pay more, it's just half the story. It's now also more expensive, hence you have to pay more (otherwise, you would pay much less insurance for an 2011 S-Class Mercedes than for an 1995 Fiat Punto, because the Mercedes is much safer).

Welease

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, that's true. I want to exploit the system because I don't want to pay more money. And I don't see anything wrong with it, so far as it's legal.

Can we assume then you would have no problem with them exploiting a technicality to not pay out if you made a claim?

CiniO

-Chris- wrote: »

Re-read your own post.

It's your responsibility to make sure you're correctly insured.

You know you informed the insurance company of information, but that they mislaid this information or otherwise failed to act on it. You know they're not fully aware of the facts about your car (through their own fault).

That's not true. I don't know if they are not fully aware of the facts about my car.
I can only suspect they don't, but I can't be sure.
Actually if I wasn't experienced as much as I am, with contactin insurance companies, I would probably assume that fact that I informed them is enough.
It's not my responsibility to be thinking. There's no law expecting people to use intelligence. Rules say to inform them, so I did.

So, if you're driving the car while knowing that the insurance company doesn't have the full information about your car (through their own fault), have you fulfilled all of your responsibilities?

Same as before. I can't say I know if they don't have full information. I'm not obliged to know their procedures. I fulfilled all my responsibilities, by informing them.
If I didn't read this forum, I would never know that modifying the car might increase insurance premium. I would never know I have to get any confirmation from them.

It is their mistake, but it's your responsibility to ensure they fix the mistake, and it's your responsibility to not use the car in a public place until the mistake is fixed.

I'm not responsible to fix someone else's mistakes.

Now you made me wondering.
That's all about my wife's car insurance.
But in December I put winter tyres to my own car in different size and speed index to original. I assumed it was modification, so I rang my insurance company, and the guy over the phone said he noted it down. I never got any written confirmation of this fact. Does it mean, that since then I did almost 15 thousand kilometres mostly on the Continent, being uninsured, as I can't be sure if they are fully aware about the modification? The guy over the phone could have never noted it down in real.

Owen

CiniO wrote: »

It's not my responsibility to be thinking.

It is. That's what the utmost good faith clause is there for.

If I didn't read this forum, I would never know that modifying the car might increase insurance premium. I would never know I have to get any confirmation from them.

First of all, you already knew. Your first post tells us as much. Secondly, ignorance is no defence.

I'm not responsible to fix someone else's mistakes.

Unfortunately, you are. It's really simple. If I were you, I'd call them first thing Monday, or visit them. If you have an accident, a quick google for 'polish man, suspenion mods, mayo' will turn up pretty quickly, and yes Insurance companies, just like Gardaí and the Social Welfare are trawling forums these days.

CiniO

mdebets wrote: »

No, you are not insured and have no policy that states that you are insured.

You have a policy that states you are insured for a car of the make A with engine B. This consists of parts C, D, E.
You now have however a still a car of the make A with engine B. But it now contains parts C, D, F. SO you are no longer insured.

To be precise - insurance certificate states that cover applies to vehicle bearing index mark and registration no. 01Dxxxxx

And about the car being saver and that you therefore shouldn't have to pay more, it's just half the story. It's now also more expensive, hence you have to pay more (otherwise, you would pay much less insurance for an 2011 S-Class Mercedes than for an 1995 Fiat Punto, because the Mercedes is much safer).

Why would I have to pay more premium if the car is worth more, as they would never pay for the car since policy is only TPFT.

Just save all the arguing energy and call them

cruizer101

At the end of the day you are knowingly breaking the law.

You can try justify it to yourself all you want but it doesn't change the facts.

It may be a crap situation, I fully agree with you that the insurance company are being a pain and probably should be responsible, but that doesn't change the simple fact that you are the one breaking the law.

Don't forget driving isn't some sort of right, its a privilege for which you have to be fully aware of all of your own responsibilities. It is your responsibility to ensure you are insured, not the insurance companies. They supply the service, in this case it seems a crap one, but the onus is on you to make sure all is in order.

The Muppet

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I don't think an email would qualify as proof of contact. It could be mistaken as spam by the company's filters. A fax, or written letter. Or just a simple followup call.

email is legally binding. In this instance the OP should make sure he recieves an official reply to whatever means of communication he uses to ensure the insurance is valid.

Owen

Not doubting you, but email isn't a fantastic form of guaranteeing communication. Do you have a link with legislation to back that up?

The Muppet

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Not doubting you, but email isn't a fantastic form of guaranteeing communication. Do you have a link with legislation to back that up?

I was told at a training course related to my work. there's plenty of sources on google to back it up.

-Chris-

I'm actually closing this thread.

The question has been asked, opinions have been given, CiniO is free to take those opinions on board (or not) and act accordingly.

I don't see the conversation developing in any meaningful way, and I don't expect anyone here will be changing their opinions any time soon.


Thread closed



Edit - Thread reopened and merged with Cinio's update

CiniO

I have a small update in accordance with below thread, which was actually closed, so I couldn't write there.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056207044

For those who didn't read the previous thread in short - I did some modifications to the car (lowering springs and strut brace), went to one of insurance company branches and told them about it. They said they will call me next day with any info if there is a raise in premium. But they never did.

I assumed that they didn't call because there was no change in premium, but I was strongly advised in mentioned thread, to contact them again and make sure that modification were written down by them, as otherwise I wouldn't be covered, and I didn't have any proof that I informed them.

So I did.

I rang them last week. Lady first had no clue what the modifications were, so I had to explain her everything. Then she said she will ring me later when she finds out what's the story with such modification. She did ring few hours later, and said, she has to contact underwriter, and it's going to take a bit longer. Next day she again rang about 3 times, obviously each time I had to accept their call recording policy, give all policyholder details, addresses, etc, and confirm I have a permission from policy holder (my wife) to do all the changes. I think I spend way over an hour over the phone to do such simple thing over these few days.
Finally she informed me that modifications will raise the premium by 15%, which I find strange, as car now is safer than it was.

Anyway - she asked me as well, what was the cost of modifications.
It was very difficult question for me, especially that she asked about exact amount.
I bought lowering springs secondhand, and fitted them myself. Strut brace was a present from my friend, and it was secondhand as well.
I tried to explain that I can't say, but she insisted on exact cost, so I just told her €400.

She told me that policy documents will be posted shortly.

I received them 2 days later (disc, cert, schedule, etc), but what I'm wondering - there's not a single word about modifications.
It's indicated in the letter, that there was change of the vehicle in the policy, and it causes rise of premium. But neither on cert nor on schedule, there is any word about modifications. The car details in those 2 documents above, are exactly the same as they were.

I was advised here before, that modifications should be listed on cert or schedule.

So I took a phone and rang them again. Spend another 15 minutes, and was told that's the normal procedure, and they have all modification details written down. But it's not stated on cert or schedule. I asked to post me any written confirmation, she said it's impossible


So now I'm in exact the same position as before, or even worse.
I informed them about modifications, was charged addition premium, and ended up again without any proof of it.

Waiting for any feedback from you guys, what do you think I should do?

Wolverine_1999

Judging from above.. don't mention a thing next time. Insurance companies just want any excuse to raise your premium. Do you think they would be so quick to shell out a bit of cash if YOU had to go to them?

If the **** does hit the fan, just put all the original bits and bobs on before the Insurance company send out an assessor in the case of an accident (knock on wood doesn't happen in any case).

Anan1

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

Judging from above.. don't mention a thing next time. Insurance companies just want any excuse to raise your premium. Do you think they would be so quick to shell out a bit of cash if YOU had to go to them?

If the **** does hit the fan, just put all the original bits and bobs on before the Insurance company send out an assessor in the case of an accident (knock on wood doesn't happen in any case).

Don't even think about this, OP.;)

Wolverine_1999

Anan1 wrote: »

Don't even think about this, OP.;)

Ha just had to point out what everyone is thinking.. but not saying

It's just more of the typical bull**** out of this country though - you pay more to get something written down on a piece of paper, and in the end, the only place the information is stored is in fairyland :rolleyes:

Anan1

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

Ha just had to point out what everyone is thinking.. but not saying

It's just more of the typical bull**** out of this country though - you pay more to get something written down on a piece of paper, and in the end, the only place the information is stored is in fairyland :rolleyes:

Your recommendation favours insurance companies at our expense.

Wolverine_1999

Anan1 wrote: »

Your recommendation favours insurance companies at our expense.

In the case of the OP above, I don't think so. How does that make the car any more dangerous? It still is the same car with the same amount of power and it is still is the same driver with the same amount of NCB. This is what they quoted the person for, not how high off the ground it sits.

But anyway, back to the original question, if someone pays for something then they should obviously have a written copy of that payment. Like a receipt if you will.

I would demand a piece of paper off of the Insurance company with this written on it. I'm sure there is a regulating body that would support this.

CiniO

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

In the case of the OP above, I don't think so. How does that make the car any more dangerous? It still is the same car with the same amount of power and it is still is the same driver with the same amount of NCB. This is what they quoted the person for, not how high off the ground it sits.

But anyway, back to the original question, if someone pays for something then they should obviously have a written copy of that payment. Like a receipt if you will.

I would demand a piece of paper off of the Insurance company with this written on it. I'm sure there is a regulating body that would support this.

I might try ring them again.
Maybe different person on helpline will be able to sort this out.
What I've learnt so far, is that every person says different things there.
I remember once I was trying to get some inforamtion from their helpline, and I rang twice during one day. Two different consultants gave me completely opposite answers.

I agree with your opinion that insurance companies in Ireland are a joke, and only what they can do well is to rip you off.
But I really want to avoid trouble, and if I crashed, your idea you proposed (with taking modified stuff off before assessor comes in) might not always work.
If the modified part is broken during the crash, it might be not possible to take it off.

That's why I'm trying to sort this thing properly, but obviously (as I expected) it required plenty of time and hassle.
Money wasn't too bad, because 15% increase, was only about 40 quid for the whole year. But still - I don't agree with idea of paying them extra for nothing.

Anan1

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

In the case of the OP above, I don't think so. How does that make the car any more dangerous? It still is the same car with the same amount of power and it is still is the same driver with the same amount of NCB. This is what they quoted the person for, not how high off the ground it sits.

When you fail to disclose a material fact you open the door for the ins co to refuse any claim. Basically, you're paying them for nothing.

Alkers

I changed a bike policy recently with Quinn and they sent me out new documents with the new bike on it and included all the modifications it has done to it.

Our man in Havana

OP you need to start using the written word. Phonecalls are no use it would seem.
Send them a letter outlining the issues and ask them to confirm in writing that the mods are all recorded properly for your own peace of mind.

Our man in Havana

Anan1 wrote: »

When you fail to disclose a material fact you open the door for the ins co to refuse any claim. Basically, you're paying them for nothing.

They cannot refuse to pay out on 3rd party claims.