It's time for the Aussies to change their flag.

creeper1

Am I the only one thinking this? They have had that flag for over a hundred years and I am at a loss to think why they don't change the thing.

Here are some of the reasons I feel they should change -

- They are not a part of the British empire anymore.

- They are an independent country.

- New immigrants and aborigines probably don't like it.

- People of a republican background wouldn't wave or wear this flag.

- They could attract more skilled Irish workers by changing the flag.

Many people from Ireland are now emmigrating to Australia. How do they feel about entering a country which seems to be stuck in the past in regard to things like this.

Manic Moran

Have you seen the Hawaiian flag, recently? At least Aussieland is in the Commonwealth.

NTM

judas101

creeper1 wrote: »

- They could attract more skilled Irish workers by changing the flag.

I don't think anyone who would care about that would be smart enough to be skilled workers

ciarriaithuaidh

creeper1 wrote: »

Am I the only one thinking this? They have had that flag for over a hundred years and I am at a loss to think why they don't change the thing.

Here are some of the reasons I feel they should change -

- They are not a part of the British empire anymore.

- They are an independent country.

- New immigrants and aborigines probably don't like it.

- People of a republican background wouldn't wave or wear this flag.

- They could attract more skilled Irish workers by changing the flag.

Many people from Ireland are now emmigrating to Australia. How do they feel about entering a country which seems to be stuck in the past in regard to things like this.

Im not sure about attracting Irish people being a valid reason for changing it!!

Seriously though,id love if they did change it. I have a lot of Aussie friends who are keen to change it, but also some who want to keep it...apart from being attached to it obviously, one mate put it as follows. "The union jack represents our past, and the southern cross our future"...go figure. Im no rabid republican but I think it is a bit ridiculous that some nations still have the union jack on their flags..Im not sure if it speaks to some national insecurity woven into the psyche of these nations or whatever. There is evidence to suggest that the republican constitutional referendum of 1999 in Australia would have passed if not for Johnny Howard (a diehard monarchist) muddying the waters as much as possible. There was also divisions within the republican camp over what form of republicanism they wanted and the presidential election system etc...not sure if there will be another referendum at any stage.

TheUsual

I worked with an young Australian lad once and said the same thing to him.
He pulled his shirt up and showed me a full-on union jack flag tattooed on him.

It's not for us Irish to tell them what to do really. They have American nuclear weapons (which nobody talks about) in the North-West of Australia. And they had a referendum to leave the commonwealth, which was a close vote but was won by the pro-commonwealth voters.

Not our business to be telling them what to do is what i think.

Vorsprung

A quarter of Irish people who have emigrated are heading for Australia. Many are also heading for the UK.

Obviously the flag of the country one head's to comes far down the list, probably behind likelihood of getting a job, cost of living, future prospects, maybe even chances of furthering one's education, skills so that they can come home eventually.

Zillah

creeper1 wrote: »

- They are not a part of the British empire anymore.

- They are an independent country.

Australia is part of the British commonwealth, the Queen of England is the Australian head of state.

- New immigrants and aborigines probably don't like it.

Probably? The majority of immigrants probably couldn't give a flip, and I've never heard any strong opinions from Aborigines.

- People of a republican background wouldn't wave or wear this flag.

To what Republican background are you referring, exactly? Australia is a federation, and a commonwealth nation.

- They could attract more skilled Irish workers by changing the flag.

They've got their fill of Irish workers to be honest, and somehow I suspect the "more skilled" Irish workers are the ones least likely to care about such petty issues.

Many people from Ireland are now emmigrating to Australia. How do they feel about entering a country which seems to be stuck in the past in regard to things like this.

Still thinking of England as the enemy is basically the definition of living in the past.

Cookie_Monster

The New Zealanders are talking about this aren't they, replacing the current one with the all black with silver fern as the official flag...
I'm sure I read something about that last year

GSF

And what if the Aussies object to our flag?

hardCopy

creeper1 wrote: »

Am I the only one thinking this?

- They could attract more skilled Irish workers by changing the flag.

Many people from Ireland are now emmigrating to Australia. How do they feel about entering a country which seems to be stuck in the past in regard to things like this.

I really hope you're the only one thinking this. Anyone desperate enough to have to emmigrate to the other side of the world probably has more pressing concerns.

biko

I'd like to see this as a replacement.
The UK flag part replace by the aboriginal flag.

Bloody Nipples

creeper1 wrote: »

Many people from Ireland are now emmigrating to Australia. How do they feel about entering a country which seems to be stuck in the past in regard to things like this.

You're post seems a bit ironic considering what you're actually getting hung up on here.

who the fug

Think they should keep it.

If it keeps people motivated by hate out of their country then it be a good thing

Predator_

Yes absolutely. The blood mark of the butchers apron should not don any foreign flag..

sensibleken

This reminds me of the time i was walking to Croker for a U2 concert (I know, not my idea I was going out with an idiot at the time) and some guy started shouting aggresively at this house 'get that ****in union jack out of the window for **** sake', we all had to point out that it it was the australian flag and he should never be allowed to vote.

In short, flags are stupid. Ours is boring, we should replace it with a wolfhound. Not a picture of one, an actual wolfhound

Bottle_of_Smoke

I'd imagine aborigines don't like it alright.

That said the majority of people there are of British descent, I'd say that's why they'd prefer to keep it. Its up to the majority of the population really.

Cookie_Monster

sensibleken wrote: »

In short, flags are stupid. Ours is boring, we should replace it with a wolfhound. Not a picture of one, an actual wolfhound

you can't go hoisting wolfhounds up poles all over the place, the animal rights people would have a field day

sensibleken

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you can't go hoisting wolfhounds up poles all over the place, the animal rights people would have a field day

Of course you cant, have you seen the size of them. Unlike flags that you have to drag around they walk themselves. Plus theyd keep them fúcking wolves under control!

who the fug

sensibleken wrote: »

Of course you cant, have you seen the size of them. Unlike flags that you have to drag around they walk themselves. Plus theyd keep them fúcking wolves under control!

Any that I have ever seen are bastards for Guinness and Taytos

Paddysnapper

creeper1 wrote: »

Am I the only one thinking this? They have had that flag for over a hundred years and I am at a loss to think why they don't change the thing.

Here are some of the reasons I feel they should change -

- They are not a part of the British empire anymore.

- They are an independent country.

- New immigrants and aborigines probably don't like it.

- People of a republican background wouldn't wave or wear this flag.

- They could attract more skilled Irish workers by changing the flag.

Many people from Ireland are now emmigrating to Australia. How do they feel about entering a country which seems to be stuck in the past in regard to things like this.

Mind your own business:rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

sensibleken wrote: »

Plus theyd keep them fúcking wolves under control!

Mick McCarthy can't even manage that!

And yes, I know I'm going off-topic with a crap pun, but considering that the entire topic of the thread is a joke, I reckon that's appropriate.

Dannyboy83

Could we attract more skilled British workers by adding in a Union Jack to our flag?

(and maybe throw in a few caravans with a red x through them?;))

bmaxi

Personally , I'm delighted someone has brought this subject up. Who do these Aussies think they are, just putting whatever they fooking like on their flag without consulting anybody? I lie awake at night worrying the UK may become a republic and adopt a green, white and orange tricolor as their flag, we wouldn't be able to stay at home then either.
One can only hope that by the time those troubled by the composition of the Aussie flag have grown up, other issues might occupy their lives.

gigino

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

That said the majority of people there are of British descent, I'd say that's why they'd prefer to keep it.

And many of the Australians are pround of their British roots too. I remember being out there many many years ago talking about things like this with a large group of ordinary everyday Australians, and one of them proudly said to me " We are all British originally anyway". It sort of put me in my place, a little paddy with an Irish accent and no other Irish people in the vicinity either.
( although of course I met some Irish people throughout Australia )

Let them keep their flag, it has served them well. We would not like it if some muslims for example moved here and objected to our flag and suggested we chaged it because they did not like it.

later12

In my personal experience the Australians are broadly too un-European, and too confident with their nationality and their history to give a toss about this.

There seems to be a tradition in Ireland and in much of Europe of hereditary preoccupation with one's nationality and the enthusiastic inheritance of historical baggage, or other eccentricities that possibly arise in all elderly civilisations.

The Irish people are generally very capable of respecting other peoples and their cultures. We (quite correctly) affirm the rights of Muslims to practice the often more bizarre aspects of Shari'a law where it is not repugnant to human rights standards. We can positively dote on the eccentric obstinancies of our European counterparts in cultural terms, such as the ritual of Italian dining or the pride of French nationalism.
Yet anything remotely English can be guffawed at disdainfully for no other reason than that a group of people that they never knew once hurt a bunch of people that we have never known. Anyone named Lord X or Baron Y is automatically established for public ridicule, though we would likely be greatly intrigued by his French or German equivalent. Typically British sports are denounced as toff pastimes whereas their European counterparts like skiing and even the Swedish 'bandy' are seen as trendy niche sports that we like to be seen to engage in ourselves.

I suppose, that perhaps, is our own little eccentic obstinance. Nevertheless, I do think it's time that more people in Ireland grew up a little and learned to discern the difference between history and the present.
Or at least stopped obsessing about the flags of other jurisdictions, and perhaps even flags in general.

deise go deo

gigino wrote: »

And many of the Australians are pround of their British roots too. I remember being out there many many years ago talking about things like this with a large group of ordinary everyday Australians, and one of them proudly said to me " We are all British originally anyway". It sort of put me in my place, a little paddy with an Irish accent and no other Irish people in the vicinity either.
( although of course I met some Irish people throughout Australia )

Let them keep their flag, it has served them well. We would not like it if some muslims for example moved here and objected to our flag and suggested we chaged it because they did not like it.

Good, their opinions are so much better than those abnormal weekend Australians.

gigino

yeah mate, with their generations deep Aussi accents everyday meant 7 days a week to them. g'day. I am only saying what they said, and throughout my time there nobody would have been insulting enough to suggest to them that it was time to change their flag because one or two of us ( on the other side of the world ) did not like it because of our racist / bigotted attitude to the flag of our neighbour.

I am Irish and I would not criticise the flags of other countries.

KeithAFC

Think they should keep it. I respect our aussie brothers.

Corsendonk

creeper1 wrote: »

Am I the only one thinking this? They have had that flag for over a hundred years and I am at a loss to think why they don't change the thing.

Here are some of the reasons I feel they should change -

- They are not a part of the British empire anymore.

- They are an independent country.

- New immigrants and aborigines probably don't like it.

- People of a republican background wouldn't wave or wear this flag.

- They could attract more skilled Irish workers by changing the flag.

Many people from Ireland are now emmigrating to Australia. How do they feel about entering a country which seems to be stuck in the past in regard to things like this.

I think that would be up to the Australians, how would you like someone coming into your house and telling you to change the wallpaper?

What next after the flag? The coat of arms on the passport if you apply for citizenship to remove the royal crowns? Independence from the Commonwealth? Renaming Australian cities and states to remove former English Imperial Masters such as Lord Sydney, Viscount Melbourne and Queen Victoria that Irish republicans might take offence to?

Canada changed their flag to the Maple Leaf but the Canadian passport still has the Union Jack and the Harp in the coat of arms on it, should they change that to attract more skilled non english/irish workers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Canada.svg

The main problem people from outside Australia have with the current flag of Australia is that its easily confused with New Zealand flag:D

im invisible

creeper1 wrote: »

stuck in the past

.

dvpower

Zillah wrote: »

Australia is part of the British commonwealth, the Queen of England is the Australian head of state.

The Queen of Australia is the Australian head of state.
(it's obviously the same person as the Queen of England, but a unique commonwealth arrangement)

aftermn

Is it time for the Ausies to change their flag?

Since it is 'their' flag, I think I will leave it up to them.

HalloweenJack

TheUsual wrote: »

And they had a referendum to leave the commonwealth, which was a close vote but was won by the pro-commonwealth voters.

OT I know but just on this, I asked an Aussie about the referendum and he told the pro-Commonwealth side won because the question was too misleading.

Referendum question wrote:

To alter the Constitution to establish the Commonwealth of Australia as a republic with the Queen and Governor-General being replaced by a President appointed by a two-thirds majority of the members of the Commonwealth Parliament.

Seriously?

I think he simply refused to accept that the majority of Aussies wanted to stay in the Commonwealth.

So maybe the majority of Aussies want to keep the Union Jack in the flag.

Einhard

Predator_ wrote: »

Yes absolutely. The blood mark of the butchers apron should not don any foreign flag..

Eh, they're not foreign flags to those nations which choose them as their own.

What a silly post.

mandrake04

I recently became an Australian and although I am very much an Irish republican I'm happy enough with the keeping the Australian flag the way it is. The union flag bit is only 1/4 of the Australian flag and in my eyes represents the remnants of a now diminished empire.... kind of diluted in a way, but is still preferable than some soppy bullsh!t flag that some skinny limp-wristed light-on-their-toes bureaucrat would dream up that would be include some sort of multicultural value. ugghhh

History is exactly that. History


btw

When I was doing my citizenship the oath was to Australia and no mention of the Queen (I was happy enough with that)

From this time forward, under God,
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,
whose democratic beliefs I share,
whose rights and liberties I respect, and
whose laws I will uphold and obey.

also

The head of Australian Federation is the Governor-General Quentin Bryce

The Queen is just the Monarch of the dominions

mike65

creeper1 wrote: »

snip

As they say down under (but never in Britain) "The Best of British to you"

later12

Oh my Goodness two threads at once on flags and symbolism. I appear to have logged in to 1911.

mike65

I think its clear the republicans are amassing their forces as they look toward 2016 by which point they will have total control of the Politics forum.

creeper1

By right, Australia should be classified as an Asian country. I notice that they made it harder to get in recently because they didn't want so many Chinese. How ironic that is.

If I became an Australian citizen, and who knows one day I may decide to go there, I would campaign for a change in the flag. ANYTHING is better than what they have now.

To the other posters, yes I checked the Hawain flag. It's an absolute disgrace that one of the states maintains a flag like that. What a historical relic.

Also I would change the individual names of the states in Australia "Queensland" could be changed back to it's original name or something more republican sounding.

I feel that Ireland part in shaping Australia is overlooked. Why is there no genuflection to our contribution? Weren't thousands sent to Botany bay? Didn't they become some of the most outstanding citizens of Australia. How about a harp in place of the union flag? Or maybe an amalgumation of that plus an aboriginal symbol?

deise go deo

mike65 wrote: »

I think its clear the republicans are amassing their forces as they look toward 2016 by which point they will have total control of the Politics forum.

Yes, its part of a three step process.

• Politics Forum
• ?
• United Ireland.

new here

Really? You think we should change the flag? Uh, don't you think it's important a little more important that we aren't constitutionally bound to Britian first? The flag is the least of our problems when it comes to that.

On a side note: Yes, yes... in the last referendum, we voted against it... but that wasn't so much because people were pro-Britain or pro-Union Jack. It was more about those that were anti-Monarchy bickering and being unable to make up their minds about what to change and how to change it. So people just voted 'no'.

Anyway, things will change as the older generation moves on and the younger (my generation) becomes the 'dominant' one.

When my parents were in Primary School, they used to have to sing 'God Save The Queen' every day. (I am Australian, for the record... in case it wasn't obvious enough) My generation? Barely even know who the Queen is. We barely know anything about the Royal family or our attachment to the country. My generation has pretty much been taught (in school and otherwise) that we will eventually become constitutionally detached from Britain. And yes, eventually, our flag will change.

We just don't know when this will happen.

JustinDee

I think the Irish have enough problems as it is without worrying about Aussie's own Southern Cross, with which people are perfectly content with.

JustinDee

HalloweenJack wrote: »

OT I know but just on this, I asked an Aussie about the referendum and he told the pro-Commonwealth side won because the question was too misleading

There was nothing misleading on that referendum.
The option was for Australia to remain as is
or
vote for a republic where your elected officials in Australian Parliament voted for a President.

new here

JustinDee wrote: »

There was nothing misleading on that referendum.
The option was for Australia to remain as is
or
vote for a republic where your elected officials in Australian Parliament voted for a President.

Not true.

As I said in my post before - there was a huge issue with the people bickering about how things will change. For example, will we make the Parliament system like the Irish one, or perhaps like the American? Or something completely different? People were distracted by the arguing and no one could make up their minds on what should happen.

jank

It will happen when Australia becomes a republic. When there is a mandate for this change it will happen. Think it will happen in my lifetime but at the end of the day it is only a flag.

JustinDee

new here wrote: »

Not true.

As I said in my post before - there was a huge issue with the people bickering about how things will change. For example, will we make the Parliament system like the Irish one, or perhaps like the American? Or something completely different? People were distracted by the arguing and no one could make up their minds on what should happen.

Well, personally speaking, I was perfectly capable to make out the referendum's terms. In fact, I don't know anyone who wasn't. Biggest issue at the time was who elected an Australian president if the country was a republic. Howard cleverly made term that it would be a representitive vote as opposed to an electoral vote.

If somebody found all that confusing then they're easily confused.

Fratton Fred

How on earth did this survive in the politics forum? Surely after hours or ranting and raving would be better.

OP, I'm an immigrant in Ireland and I know quite a few other immigrants.

None of us like the Irish flag and we have come to the conclusion that Ireland would get a lot more immigrants if it adopted a pink flag with a shiatsu on it. We spoke to a bloke who can trace his roots back to Brian Boru himself and he agreed that it would probably be well received so we have a green light.

We just need to agree the shade of pink.....

mike65

I feel Queenstown should be renamed Merkelstadt

sensibleken

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How on earth did this survive in the politics forum? Surely after hours or ranting and raving would be better.

OP, I'm an immigrant in Ireland and I know quite a few other immigrants.

None of us like the Irish flag and we have come to the conclusion that Ireland would get a lot more immigrants if it adopted a pink flag with a shiatsu on it. We spoke to a bloke who can trace his roots back to Brian Boru himself and he agreed that it would probably be well received so we have a green light.

We just need to agree the shade of pink.....

surely you mean a shi-tzu, some dude gatting a massage would be too hard to draw in school.

then theres pink, youd hardly get to wash it before all the colour goes. better off to stay with red and let it fade through.

My own suggestion, an irish wolfhound playing a flying-V on a volcano, is still on the table i hope?

Fratton Fred

sensibleken wrote: »

surely you mean a shi-tzu, some dude gatting a massage would be too hard to draw in school.

then theres pink, youd hardly get to wash it before all the colour goes. better off to stay with red and let it fade through.

My own suggestion, an irish wolfhound playing a flying-V on a volcano, is still on the table i hope?

Shi-tzu, shiatsu, who cares, both would look good in pink

I like the wolfhound though. Maybe we could start with that and end up with a shi-tzu if it shrinks in the wash?

JustinDee

mike65 wrote: »

I feel Queenstown should be renamed Merkelstadt

Well thats in New Zealand so start your own bloody "Its time for the Kiwis to change their flag"-thread