SEAI Home Energy Scheme All Heating Contractors

slavetothegrind

roy rodgers wrote: »

"I'll doa good cash price forya missus!!"
Thats going to be my new one.....

i hope your user name ain't yer trading name:pac::pac::D

yoshytoshy

All I'm doing is these jobs at the moment ,the earth bonding is a load of tosh. I was told by a reci guy ,I know ,that 10sq earth is only for really long runs ,thats all:(

knighted_1

roy rodgers wrote: »

These grants are aload of ****!!

Can anyone tell me why you cant have a thermostatic rad valve in the same room as the room stat???

.

yes -but you answered your own question further down -

if there is a room stat in the sitting room ,along with a trv and the customer sets the trv at one or off ,the room stat might never be satisfied and keep calling for heat ,system will only cut out on the high heat stat when the other trvs are satisfied ,but the room stat might still be calling for heat .

knighted_1

yoshytoshy wrote: »

All I'm doing is these jobs at the moment ,the earth bonding is a load of tosh. I was told by a reci guy ,I know ,that 10sq earth is only for really long runs ,thats all:(

he mixing up with electrical supply -10sq for long runs to allow for volt drop etc

in the case of the bonding being 10 sq now, this is to ensure that electricity is taken down the path of least resistance (we know that ) if your holding a pipe that has been electrified you must have an easier path than the human body ,so to allow 220v times x amount of amps to bypass your body you must give it the least resistance PLUS the quickest time to do this ,by increasing the cross sectional area of the earth (10 sq) this is achieved .

dont know if i explained it well enough

there was a calculation done (that i dont know ) but they put the human body at between 1500 and 3000 ohms and power had to be diverted in 20 milliseconds ??? maybe a sparks could explain it better

JohnnieK

I have a customer who wants me to drop the price by the amount the grant dropped because she was late applying for the grant and missed the old grant value. You can imagine the answer I gave her :mad:. She said she read on the SEAI website the the price of the installations are coming down :mad::mad:. They are a shower of F***ers for posting that on there website.

spireland32

Hi all, I'm a frustrated contractor like you guys... So we set up the APHCI. You will find a thread on this in the heating and plumbing section. These Issues you talk about are being addressed with seai at the moment. Big meeting in the red cow hotel thurs 8 sep 2011 all rgi contractors are urged to attend. PM or email me spireland32@gmail.com for any info.

JohnnieK

spireland32 wrote: »

Hi all, I'm a frustrated contractor like you guys... So we set up the APHCI. You will find a thread on this in the heating and plumbing section. These Issues you talk about are being addressed with seai at the moment. Big meeting in the red cow hotel thurs 8 sep 2011 all rgi contractors are urged to attend. PM or email me spireland32@gmail.com for any info.

I am a member of the APHCI myself and I have not heard anything about this meeting as of yet, but I will take this as the invitation. This organisation needs to be give support so that WE have representation as contractors. I for one will be there.

spireland32

Great johnnie look forward to seeing you there.

Micky Dolenz

I won't be able to attend but if someone could give us a run down of what was discussed, that would be great

spireland32

You should have recieved an email today from the APHCI with the minutes of the meeting...

JohnnieK

Spireland32 I got that mail cheers, see you Thursday.

fressatty

I got a full fit done. Evacuated tubes on the roof for solar heating. The house was split into 3 zones - bedrooms, living rooms, DHW. Condensing OIL boiler out the back. All rads and pipework was replaced with latest efficient kit. TRV's on all rads except rooms with stats fitted (from reading this forum it now makes sense why the installer came back later on to take the TRV's out of the rooms with stats installed!). All sort of automatic gate valves on all zones.

Am i happy with this setup? Yes!

The system that is installed is highly efficient, I agree with their (SEAI) thinking on heating control upgrades etc, it makes sense not to be heating bedrooms while youre sitting in the living room or kitchen eating your dinner and watching TV!

Am I happy with the SEAI grant scheme? Not a hope!, they tried everything to delay/refuse my applications by asking for ridiculous things like hand written statements from the original installer??!! It got to the stage where i drove up to Dundalk twice in one month to hand deliver the grant forms so i could answer their stupid queries there and then after they set the forms back in the post for ridiculous reasons. In the end i lost out on the boiler and heating upgrade because of flaffing about on their part. I only just managed to get the Solar one because of hand delivering of documents.


Ater owning this installation for about a year now i've basically educated myself on the finer details of how it all works and how it should be maintained. It is complicated stuff for a novice (this is my first home, always lived in apartments before this). I'm a computer engineer by trade so i can apreciate the technical breakdown of how these systems work off each other but to somebody without a clue they would never realise it's potential and probably blame the installer because they're using the same amount of oil they always did etc. It gets intricate after a while. I've bored myself to sleep a few times researching how this stuff works so i can get its maximum potential.

So yes, the SEAI seem to be moving the goalpoasts all the time for the installer and the customer. These systems will only work efficiently if the customers educate themselves on how to use it all efficiently, otherwise its just going to cause more grief than good..and cost more too


I do see how its frustrating for an installer, theres a lot of red tape that needs to be followed in order to basically cover your arse to get the job done. Having to come back to remove the TRV's because of a new sudden SEAI directive would have cost the installer in man hours so thats something the SEAI never consider.

You should also lobby for more to be done on their part to educate the customers on the system they got grants for i.e. If I am approved for a grant for a Solar Heating system or Control upgrade/Zones, then the SEAI should provide an information pack on how to get the most out of the kit that they recommend.

Maybe mention tht the next time you have a sit down wiht them.

JohnnieK

Thats just the thing, they wont sit down with us:mad:. What you got done is a very extensive upgrade but most would not be like that. Most upgrades just separate the hot water from the space heating. I have a customer at the moment that's refurbishing his house between one thing and another the building works got delayed, his grant expires next week and when he rang to ask for a moratorium on the expiry date they point blank refused. Now I have to pull the cat out of the bag to try and get the heating system finished, commissioned and signed off by Friday. It's a magic wand I need not a tool box.

310

im getting sick of seai their putting more expensive on customers and keep changing things thinking of taking them on got the go ahead for solar from them and know their question house sq meter / tubes kingspan as job is done they dont meet up

Mattif

I am registered with the seai I took on a job and fitted a oil boiler + heating controles after finishing the job but before I filled out the sign off forms the changed the standords and said you had to be oftec reg to sign off this work.
Can I still sign off these forms or not can u help because I can not find any information on this matter???

Micky Dolenz

Mattif wrote: »

I am registered with the seai I took on a job and fitted a oil boiler + heating controles after finishing the job but before I filled out the sign off forms the changed the standords and said you had to be oftec reg to sign off this work.
Can I still sign off these forms or not can u help because I can not find any information on this matter???

When were these changes made?

Mattif

The changes were made in the middle of the job taking place !

JohnnieK

This is news to me to be honest. I'm OFTEC trained but never registered with them (just never got around to it). I have done a good few Grant boilers on SEAI grant jobs and this issue has never come up.

The passport says that an oftec tech has to install it but that is mainly for the UK as the oil industry over here is not regulated as of yet (2013 supposed to be)

When I was in Grant I mentioned this and he said because we are in Ireland this does not apply, The passport still needs to be filled in and the boiler needs to be commissioned properly with an analyser and the warranty will be honoured.

SEAI want it installed to OFTEC recommended criteria but not OFTEC registered.

Billy Bunting

I'm with Johnie, i'm Oftec registered and get called out for commisioning by non Oftec installers, the Oftec label has little clout, i'm told changes that matter come in in March, fill in the passport, if its right the passport will be, do the fga and thats all thats required here.

JohnnieK

Got an email from the better energy home scheme yesterday. A generic email sent to all contractors with a list of do's and dont's. One that stuck out like a sore thumb was "NO contractor on the scheme shall apply for the grant on behalf of a customer"

So how come Board Gais Home Team (Sierra) and ESB Electric Ireland are aloud to do this or has this changed in the last week?

I have sent an email to SEAI and I am awaiting my copied and pasted answer.

Traditional

its time to make a stand against all this regulation , if you are qualified and hold your certs thats good enought for me, look behind all this regulation ?? money making opportunity for old farts from board gais , retired thanks , i belive in regulation but not at this level , next will be a reg on your van or using certain tools and in the Uk they are trying to licence plumbers they have done it here with electricians RECI , im qualified and im not taking anymore of this , its a wonder no one has taken an action against it , its just fools like us being battered down all the time and having to take the medicine .
phew !

JohnnieK

Check this out

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/2012/Delivering+Energy+Savings+to+Consumers.htm

The grants finish next year, and what employment are they talking about?

spireland32

http://www.horstmann.co.uk/downloads/ElectronicDocuments/Central-Heating/CentaurPlus-ZW-Information-Sheet.pdf

New products from horstmann... This one looks handy for a combi installation, Seai grant or not. Single channel clock and a remote room stat. They connect wireless together so stat can go anywhere in the house without running a cable.

Suppose you could use it on a standard 2 pipe system with no zones to give some type of control... But if the stat was satisfied the water wouldn't heat either. Wouldn't really work very well actually.

Micky Dolenz

Have they scraped the pp system?

spireland32

http://www.horstmann.co.uk/downloads/ElectronicDocuments/Central-Heating/CentaurPlus-ZW-installer-web.pdf

No. If the radio link isn't successful then you use the PP system.

JohnnieK

spireland32 wrote: »

http://www.horstmann.co.uk/downloads/ElectronicDocuments/Central-Heating/CentaurPlus-ZW-Information-Sheet.pdf

New products from horstmann... This one looks handy for a combi installation, Seai grant or not. Single channel clock and a remote room stat. They connect wireless together so stat can go anywhere in the house without running a cable.

Suppose you could use it on a standard 2 pipe system with no zones to give some type of control... But if the stat was satisfied the water wouldn't heat either. Wouldn't really work very well actually.

Suater have just launched 2 and 3 zone wireless kits and the receiver is also built into the timeclock all ancillaries are wireless ie. room stats cylinder stat. saves wiring receivers into the wiring centre. Wonder will companies come up with a wireless zone valve?

spireland32

So need a wire to the zone valve? Must look up sauters site an have a look.

JohnnieK

spireland32 wrote: »

So need a wire to the zone valve? Must look up sauters site an have a look.

There website is not updated (EPH's one anyway) I was told by Precision Heating, they have them in stock at the moment.

All that needs wiring is the boiler/pump, time-clock and zone valves. Saves tearing peoples floors and walls apart

spireland32

Cheers jk

DGOBS

I was called out to an oil installation (14 months old) with a boiler house model in the centre of the house (these houses used to have warm air units) and the boiler had sooted up (cracked nozzle holder!!)

The installation was grant aided, and had been audited when finished and again after the installer had carried out remedial actions

a) the boiler was conventional flued in a compartment in with 2 vents (hi/low) into different living spaces, neither of which had purpose provided ventilation!
b) the boiler had a single walled flue
c) there was 1.5m of flexi-flue liner from the 1m of twin wall coming off the boiler
d) the remote acting fire valve phial was under the boiler
e) the condensate & prv were piped side by side to an 'unviewable' position, no tundish
f) the bypass valve was 6 inches from the boiler (doesn't have over run anyway so don't see the point)

the list goes on........

Queried the customer to how the audit went, and the installer had been made come back and fit an EXTERNAL type tiger loop and the tank was (marginally...6inches) higher
than the bottom of the oil tank!!!

Second audit went without a hitch!

I have removed the tiger loop and went back to a single pipe supply!

Where are they getting the auditors?