A cheap Free to Air install

St Senan

Here is a reason why people should not get a Install done from some guy who advertises on cheap home made Flyer stuck up on a notice board in a local shop.

steveon

Nothing surprise's me anymore, there isnt a day gone by lately that I dont meet new installers, ex electricians, carpenters etc, throwing their weight behind them being sat installers etc since B&Q started selling their cheap and rubbish Ross systems but my god scaller those pics take the biscuit how do people actually manage to get paid after doing these jobs..beggers belief..

kbell

Jesus thats bad.
i've seen installs where the guy has tried to adapt the mk4 lnb fitting to fit the older arm, by cuting away one side of the wall and taping it on.
Never seen a Legacy adaptor used like this.
What a clown...

kbell

Heres one i spotted last sat..



:eek:

St Senan

Lads the lady who owns the house paid the €200 for this system. The Chancers installed a phillex skyline receiver which comes as part of a kit which includes a 60cm dish when they got to the house they realised that there was an old 80cm from the analouge days up on the wall and decided to use it. I was called out to install a Sony EX lcd tv and a wideband Aerial for Irish DTT {in Ardamine, Riverchapel perfect reception from MT Leinster on Channel 45 with out any co channel interferance from Pressly} the lady asked me what would be wrong that her english channels are breaking up like a Jigsaw puzzle thats when i spotted the Dish She told me that these Chancers were Advertising in her local shop she did try and get this crowd to come back but she was fobbed off by them. The main thing is its sorted now.

St Senan

This is just an Example of why people should not buy or install a cheap Lidl/Aldi satellite system.

ISAA

scaller wrote: »

This is just an Example of why people should not buy or install a cheap Lidl/Aldi satellite system.

New type of offset dish

regards,

kbell

scaller wrote: »

Lads the lady who owns the house paid the €200 for this system

Not only is the quality of the work getting worse, its getting more expensive too..

steveon

ISAA wrote: »

New type of offset dish

regards,

classic quotation... ..

Digital Satellite TV

scaller wrote: »

This is just an Example of why people should not buy or install a cheap Lidl/Aldi satellite system.

Oh my good jaysus......

Cantona's Collars

Did you never hear the reason why people buy the Lidl systems?

"Ah sure it was cheap and my mate tells me I'll get all the Sky stations on the yoke"

:rolleyes:
Saw a good quote in AH that sums those people up...."buy cheap,pay twice".Very apt.
As a force of habit I spot a lot of these systems around,it's a kind of running competition to find the worst one,they usually end up pointing to the ground or hanging off the wall.
The 1st set of pics looks like a botch diy job...and somebody has the cheek to charge for that!!!

AstralTV

these chancers will have a field day when saorview kicks off, imagine how aerials will be 'installed' by them, the mind boggles,

Cantona's Collars

AstralTV wrote: »

these chancers will have a field day when saorview kicks off, imagine how aerials will be 'installed' by them, the mind boggles,

Then we get people posting here claiming that anybody with a ladder and some tools can install satellite tv and that genuine installers are too protective of their business.Scallers pics prove otherwise.
As you said AstralTV goodness knows how many more rip off merchants appear with saorview launch.:(

St Senan

zerks wrote: »

Then we get people posting here claiming that anybody with a ladder and some tools can install satellite tv and that genuine installers are too protective of their business.Scallers pics prove otherwise.
As you said AstralTV goodness knows how many more rip off merchants appear with saorview launch.:(

Well said Zerks.

Harry.c

scaller wrote: »

Here is a reason why people should not get a Install done from some guy who advertises on cheap home made Flyer stuck up on a notice board in a local shop.

Yep, these pictures say it all about the buisness these days,
It has been said many times before about these chancers putting up cheap crap and rubish like this, lidl, b+q etc etc, that has the trade on the verge of ruin.

I for one say the sooner these chancers are exposed for what they are the better for the genuine and honest installers like Scaller and I, and others, who are trying to keep afloat.

The more the public know about these chancers the better as they wont be getting ripped off like this lady,

ISAA

All of the above comments is why we are setting up the ISAA, to show the difference between real installers and the cowboys. (No insult to the real cowboys out in the wild west ):D

Regards,

gsxr1

Its hardly rocket science in fairness.


I have fixed silly small mistakes by sky (EXPERT) installers. And NTL lads. Drilling into my walls carelessly , bursts plaster, untidy crap.
Having to argue with them to send it through the attic instead of casting cable over the roof.

Covering everything in tonnes of inso tape.
. As a tradesman myself, I can far outdo some of the exprets out there in quality of fixings alone. In fact most carpenters can build and tile the roof they throw a cable over. And to think a qualified electrian can not do a tidy install is outrageous . These guys are way way more qualified than run of the mill cable installers... !!


Any good tradesmen worth his salt should be able to do this semi skilled job.
Even if one spends half a day studying this forum they are half way there.

Maybe the bad installers quoted are just in fact. Bad installers .

Its really is a DIY job when B&Q can sell the set up and give you a 6 page book on how its done.

St Senan

ISAA wrote: »

All of the above comments is why we are setting up the ISAA, to show the difference between real installers and the cowboys. (No insult to the real cowboys out in the wild west ):D

Regards,

To be honest Gerry even with a federation like the ISAA. I dont think that the chancers and bob the builders are going to cease from throwing up cheap ****e Free To Air systems. The root of the problem is that these cheap DIY ****e free to air systems are widely sold nowadays. Car boot sales, Electrical shops, Hardware shops, Lidl/Aldi, B&Q and now Xtravision. Then you have Some guys who probably never climbed a ladder in there life giving advise on how to install these systems.

kbell

gsxr1 wrote: »

Experts here are full of sh1t as far as I can see TBH.

Care to back that up??

gsxr1

kbell wrote: »

Care to back that up??

Ok . sorry. it was a bit harse.

edited .

St Senan

You are been very harsh gsxr1. Dont tar all installers with the same brush the installers you have mentioned in your previous post are typical 2 day Crash course installers that contract companies use for Sky and NTL. Most of us guys here are self employed in the Aerial Rigging busniess who know there stuff what sort of equipment to use an how to do and will do a good neat and tidy job. After all if we didnt we won't be getting any recomendation or further work.

gsxr1

scaller wrote: »

You are been very harsh gsxr1. Dont tar all installers with the same brush the installers you have mentioned in your previous post are typical 2 day Crash course installers that contract companies use for Sky and NTL. Most of us guys here are self employed in the Aerial Rigging busniess who know there stuff what sort of equipment to use an how to do and will do a good neat and tidy job. After all if we didnt we won't be getting any recomendation or further work.

It was a response of an attack on other trades like electricians which require much more technical know how and years of study in collage which sparked a bit of fury in me.
I do know that there is a whole range of of products out there which one need to be aware off. And only experience can tell the good from the bad, but to attack other trades when its more than likely that some ejits already in your trade that did all these terrible jobs is what bugs the sh1t out of me.

Bob the builder crap and the like. The lads who currently put the roof over your head and stood the structure you reside in.

watty

To fix satellite problems and diagnose them needs more study than an Electrician.

People drilling holes under contract and pointing dish + running cable for sky, indeed often know much less than Electrician. Some only know which is pointy end of drill.

To do proper job and sort out issues needs hugely more training that some of those subcontract workers get.

Imagine if builders gave a labourer a 1 day course on wiring plug sockets and fuse box and set them at doing house wiring instead of qualified sparkies? Ah sure it's only drilling holes and pulling in wires and Blue to N, Brown to L and bare wire to E.

Using a insulation tester (megger) or a meter for continuity is a LOT simpler (and cheaper) than using a proper Sat meter with Spectrum and BER (and costing over €2,000).

ISAA and other guys is trying to get the industry organsed properly. Should have happened in 1961.

Long ago whem Electricity came in the wires were insulated in paper and in lead pipes, with all joints soldered. Open ends to plug sockets, light sockets, switches and fuses filled with pitch/tar.

Of course the work was done by Plumbers. I don't know how many people died or houses burnt down before "Electricians" were organised as the workers to do it.

Most* Electricians can't tell RG59 from RG58 or why it matters, or PF100 (or TX100) from so called "low loss" TV cable. Experts in the Aerial and Satellite trade can tell. Without reading the writing printed on the outer insulation.

Different trades are different and shouldn't insult each other or presume it's as simple as it looks.

(*Smart Electricians don't believe sneaky penny pinching Builders and read what it says on the Insulation and then check the plans/work order/schematics/ materials list or whatever).

watty

scaller wrote: »

. The root of the problem is that these cheap DIY ****e free to air systems are widely sold nowadays. Car boot sales, Electrical shops, Hardware shops, Lidl/Aldi, B&Q and now Xtravision. Then you have Some guys who probably never climbed a ladder in there life giving advise on how to install these systems.

The Co-op (Dairy Gold) is great place for all kinds of stuff. But their electrical purchasers may be expert on 10 kinds of Tractor oil and Horse rubs. Not on electrical stuff.

I felt depressed when I saw the giant pile of Ross SD systems in boxes there today. Even it it was a decent dish and "freesat HD" DIY with proper cable and instructions it wouldn't be so bad. €67

gsxr1

watty wrote: »

To fix satellite problems and diagnose them needs more study than an Electrician.

People drilling holes under contract and pointing dish + running cable for sky, indeed often know much less than Electrician. Some only know which is pointy end of drill.

To do proper job and sort out issues needs hugely more training that some of those subcontract workers get.

Imagine if builders gave a labourer a 1 day course on wiring plug sockets and fuse box and set them at doing house wiring instead of qualified sparkies? Ah sure it's only drilling holes and pulling in wires and Blue to N, Brown to L and bare wire to E.

Using a insulation tester (megger) or a meter for continuity is a LOT simpler (and cheaper) than using a proper Sat meter with Spectrum and BER (and costing over €2,000).

ISAA and other guys is trying to get the industry organsed properly. Should have happened in 1961.

Long ago whem Electricity came in the wires were insulated in paper and in lead pipes, with all joints soldered. Open ends to plug sockets, light sockets, switches and fuses filled with pitch/tar.

Of course the work was done by Plumbers. I don't know how many people died or houses burnt down before "Electricians" were organised as the workers to do it.

Most* Electricians can't tell RG59 from RG58 or why it matters, or PF100 (or TX100) from so called "low loss" TV cable. Experts in the Aerial and Satellite trade can tell. Without reading the writing printed on the outer insulation.

Different trades are different and shouldn't insult each other or presume it's as simple as it looks.

(*Smart Electricians don't believe sneaky penny pinching Builders and read what it says on the Insulation and then check the plans/work order/schematics/ materials list or whatever).

I have hit a nerve .

I completely agree with everything you have said , and when you get down to the real circuitry diagnostics of an expensive system, it will be down to a truly expert person to sort it.
I have dealt with them frequently in high end installs in big new houses of the boom.
I apologize when I criticizes the more advanced end of the group.

But i do have issues with those who seem to think its the carpenters and electricians of the country who are making them look like fools . ( which at the start of the thread some seem to think it is)
Really?? give me a break. Sure the next time I see a structural failure I will blame the cable guy!

watty

gsxr1 wrote: »

But i do have issues with those who seem to think its the carpenters and electricians of the country who are making them look like fools . ( which at the start of the thread some seem to think it is)
Really?? give me a break. Sure the next time I see a structural failure I will blame the cable guy!

I'd agree that's daft.

I think the consensus is that simply it's bad for the Trade and consumer if people who don't really know what they are doing claim to be Satellite dish and
Aerial installers.

Real carpenters and electricians are not the problem. I blame the Trade suppliers for supplying the brow cable with copper cobwebs (so called "low loss") as its no use for anything and proper "satellite grade" coax (TX100, PF100, CT100 and even some versions of RG6) are fine for ALL 75 Ohm applications. Video, VHF FM, DAB, Cable TV, Cable Broadband, VHF/UHF TV and DTT as well as Satellite IF.

The Trade should also stock true "U" versions that can be directly buried or exposed outside. And PF125 type cable for longer runs and small trunks.

The RG59 should not really be used for "patch cords" any more. Too poor on screening.

50 Ohm cable is only used for transmitters (Mobile Radio, CB, Amateur Radio), new ethernet installs hasn't used Coax for over 15 years.

St Senan

Lads this topic can be either discussed or argued to death but the simply fact of the matter is that there are guys out there that are trained and qualified in other trades and that are either double jobbing or nowadays unemployed and are out throwing up cheap satellite dishes. I havent heard of any carpenters but i have come across many a Electrician installing dishes {differant trade} and installing alarms and camera systems also a {differant trade} again the root of the problem is that there is also many a electrical wholesaler selling cheap crap coaxial cable and ****e satellite DIY kits.

AstralTV

gsxr1 wrote: »

It was a response of an attack on other trades like electricians which require much more technical know how and years of study in collage which sparked a bit of fury in me.
.

you having a laugh ?

25 years at this mate, and I have a HNC Mech Eng (5 years COLLAGE) and I can spell college,

Do not compare electricians to IF/RF installers its a completely different business,

nice supply of permanant EMF & 3 brightly coloured cables

Versus

hard to find signals that disappear & are lot harder to analyse & control


its so easy isnt it ,

watty

Ah now, he said sorry...

St Senan

It's not rocket science is it

This is what i was faced with on Saturday morning.
The Install was done by an Electrician who installs cheap Free to Air systems on the side that he buys from an Electrical Wholesaler.
Since day 1 the customer was having signal problems. When he contacted the Electrician about the problem he was told that the signal problem was from his neighbours Baby monitor and there is nothing that can be done.
The customer contacted me after he could get no good from the Sparks.


The TV point in these pictures is in the main sitting room. The house is only 4 years old and there is only 1 coaxial cable at the main TV point.

Tony

Thats very nasty Edit: the poor work that is.

scaller wrote: »

This is what i was faced with on Saturday morning.

excollier

Yep. Seen the like of that before, done by "professional" aerial and sat installers, who charge a fortune.
They appear to be thriving too.

Cantona's Collars

Some quality workmanship in those pics:rolleyes: You (scaller) stated this guy was a sparks,if he does this with coax cable I'd hate to have him wire my house for electricity,even the least technically minded have an inkling on how to join cable or would go to the effort of finding out.2 minute conversation at any hardware store-"do you have any of them things for joining satellite/telly cable,I don't know what they're called?". "Yes we do,here's what you need,that'll be €2 altogether,have a nice day".
Even a so called tradesman wasn't bothered to do that.I've dealt with people who wouldn't pay to have a satellite installer fit a system properly,the usual answer was "sure I know a fella down the road who will do it" generally that ends in tears and no telly as their local 'jack of all trades does a bodge job.I've heard of some of these guy's have the cheek to charge callout fees even though the problems were of their causing in the first place.
I see B+Q selling HD fta systems for €79-Expect a flood of them being installed by these 'pro's' for a huge mark up soon.Met a guy last week who bought one of these systems,he was charged €80 to put up the dish and €50 to tune in the box,and he thought he got a bargain,the 'installer didn't even use coach screws to hold up the dish.

St Senan

zerks wrote: »

I've dealt with people who wouldn't pay to have a satellite installer fit a system properly,the usual answer was "sure I know a fella down the road who will do it" generally that ends in tears and no telly as their local 'jack of all trades does a bodge job.I've heard of some of these guy's have the cheek to charge callout fees even though the problems were of their causing in the first place.
I see B+Q selling HD fta systems for €79-Expect a flood of them being installed by these 'pro's' for a huge mark up soon.Met a guy last week who bought one of these systems,he was charged €80 to put up the dish and €50 to tune in the box,and he thought he got a bargain,the 'installer didn't even use coach screws to hold up the dish.

That's the whole problem in this business there is to many
TV shops, Electrical Wholesalers, Supermarkets, Hardware shops and Market traders selling these cheap budget DIY satellite Kits to the public.

kbell

As i said in a previous post, i guy i was installing Sky for a few months back, said he and a mate were getting into the satellite fta game, as their alarm business had folded because, "its easy and theres loads to be made from it"
He then asked me "do trees effect the signal?? wow i'd never have thought that"..
God help anyone who's door step he lands on..

Zardoz

scaller wrote: »

It's not rocket science is it

This is what i was faced with on Saturday morning.
The Install was done by an Electrician who installs cheap Free to Air systems on the side that he buys from an Electrical Wholesaler.

Shocking ,absolutely shocking ,a complete cowboy .

Tony

Zardoz wrote: »

Shocking ,absolutely shocking ,a complete cowboy .

Thats an insult to Cowboys

St Senan

Thats it Tony you tell him there partner. YeeHaaa.

madmaggie

scaller wrote: »

This is just an Example of why people should not buy or install a cheap Lidl/Aldi satellite system.

I bought a Lidl system last year, but got it properly set up. The lad who installed it provided a sky dish as he said the lidl dish was crap. From those pics I can see what he meant. I only wanted the Brit channels, no sky stuff, so it suits me fine. Works great.:)

dunnariogh

hi,can anyone recommend a free to air installer in the kildare/naas area,heard there is a lot of cowboys operating,thanks.

ISAA

www.isaa.tv

Tony

Whats with the anti cowboy sentiment here. I have lots of friends in Wyoming who carry out top notch installs.

Cantona's Collars

How to properly install a satellite system bought in your local supermarket.

Rippy

zerks wrote: »

How to properly install a satellite system bought in your local supermarket.

Great idea. Patio mounts for a euro!;)

davlacey

id have to agree people are now realising its not rocket since these kits came out. i aligned a dish in 10 mins with a cheap sat meter second time it was 5 mins and if people can save them self money doing it themselfs then where is the harm

Cantona's Collars

davlacey wrote: »

id have to agree people are now realising its not rocket since these kits came out. i aligned a dish in 10 mins with a cheap sat meter second time it was 5 mins and if people can save them self money doing it themselfs then where is the harm

It's not the people that try it for themselves that's the problem-It's guy's charging €200+ to install the same cheap systems that's the problem.The reputable professionals that post here install proper systems and not generic fta rubbish that is being thrown up by fly by nighters.

davlacey

i agree its different ball game installing in other peoples houses with no insurance ect but you get it in every trade and the only way to go is to get fas or fetac involved and have a recognised manditory coarse for anyone doing this for a living

kbell

davlacey wrote: »

id have to agree people are now realising its not rocket since these kits came out. i aligned a dish in 10 mins with a cheap sat meter second time it was 5 mins and if people can save them self money doing it themselfs then where is the harm

No harm, its the people like Zerks mentioned that are ruining this industry and giving honest,decent people in the trade a bad name.

If after laying a wooden floor in your house or painting, would you advertise yourself as a professional carpenter or painter..??

davlacey

no personally i wouldnt but most of these pictures of installs are probably self installs and if they want to leave cables hanging then let them anyone in there right mind wouldnt leave a jobs like that an exspect to get paid for it

kbell

Unfortuately that's not the case, I've been called out to fix some of these professional installs as the original person refused to to come back or couldn't be contacted.

AstralTV

plus the false advertising, selling generic FTA boxes as 'Freesat' to people who dont know the difference until the channels disapear.

and the aerials appearing on satellite brackets drilled onto chimneys, etc.