Bf gave ashes to my child without asking

LegacyUser

I realise that personal religious issues might come into some replies from posters but i'm asking you to please not let your own personal views colour your advice about my situation. Thanks.

I am A religious Catholic, my bf is not. I have a daughter from a previous relationship and had planned on the three of us going today to get blessing and ashes. My bf was happy enough to go but i let him know he didn't have to, but it was important for me to go. Anyhow he arrived home late to go to the church and as i was upstairs at the time i went down to see that he and my daughter their foreheads plastered in ash. His mother had given him ash from the church and he decided that would be good enough. He was about to throw it on me when i stopped him furious. He never asked me or even thought to consult with me to see if it was ok for him, a non religious person who hasn't been inside a church for twenty odd years except for funerals, to apply the ashes to my daughter. Because he had decided that this would be enough he also decided without asking, that we were missing the church.

I'm really really upset by this and deeply offended, any advice?

Logical Fallacy

Talk to him about it. In a calm and rational manner. Explain that your religious beliefs are a part of who you and you feel they cannot just be paid lip service to in an effort to save time.

LegacyUser

You say that he is a non-religous person who hasn't been to church except for funerals.

Maybe he didn't realise the importance of this to you, he might even have thought you'd be glad he showed an interest, or did something religous for your daughter.

I don't know, but I second Logical Fallacy's advice about having a calm discussion about it where you make your feelings and beliefs clear.

Zen65

advice please wrote: »

I am A religious Catholic, my bf is not.

......

He never asked me or even thought to consult with me to see if it was ok for him, a non religious person who hasn't been inside a church for twenty odd years except for funerals, to apply the ashes to my daughter.

Op,

I'm confused by your post.

Are you saying that the symbolism of the mark of ashes is adversely affected if a non-religious person is involved in some way?

If that is the case, can you explain why this is?


Or am I completely missing your point?

Be at peace,

Z

Neyite

While I would share somewhat your boyfriends view of the catholic faith, what he did was out of order. I dont want to be disrespectful of your beliefs, but what he did might be similar to feeding your kids loads of sweets just before you are about to go to a restaurant for a lovely family meal, because its 'still food and all the same stuff anyway'.

You have every right to be annoyed with him. He ruined an important day for you. Call him on it. Ask him if he would be happy with you throwing away tickets to a match he was just about to go to, because he could "hear the match on the radio."

Sound Bite

OP, I'd hazard a guess that he didn't realise this would be offensive to you.

He probably thought it was the symbolism that was important more so than anything else.

Talk about it rationally with him. You might find he did this with the best of intentions.

MLH1

Your a bitch who causes trouble over nothing grow the **** up or get some new ****ing tampons to help you with the stupid ****ing period **** your on.

gimme5minutes

As you say he is not a Catholic so to him it's merely rubbing some dirt into people's forheads, as long as the dirt comes from a church and is therefore holy he probably thought he ticked all the boxes. You say he was then going to 'throw' some on you...he obviously doesn't understand the symbolism of it so you are overreacting by getting furious with someone over something they don't understand. How can you take offence where none was meant?

Silverfish

MLH1 wrote: »

Your a bitch who causes trouble over nothing grow the **** up or get some new ****ing tampons to help you with the stupid ****ing period **** your on.

Banned.

fghijkl

MLH1 wrote: »

Your a bitch who causes trouble over nothing grow the **** up or get some new ****ing tampons to help you with the stupid ****ing period **** your on.

Your not much of a catholic if you have a bastard are you, who are you to be up on your high horse

:rolleyes: scumbag

Op i think he may have meant it as a nice gesture and you are blowing it completely out of proportion. It would be the same as someone from another religion having a hissy fit at you for eating with the wrong hand or something.

you are overreacting by getting furious with someone over something they don't understand

+1 religion aside OP, yes you are being completely irrational in your offence/anger.

Silverfish

fghijkl wrote: »

:rolleyes: scumbag

Banned.

Any more abusive posting in this thread will result in similar bans.


Please keep replies on-topic and helpful to the OP.

tenchi-fan

I think you're missing the point, op. He probably thought it was a nice gesture and in Ireland ashes are often distributed by lay people (including grannies, teachers and various other holy joes)

spinandscribble

Tbh Op he was trying to do something nice for you and you threw it back in his face with your reaction. If he's not good enough to give ashes to your daughter (something that doesn't require a perfect mass attendance record) why are you with him?

whatdoicare

OP I'd just take it as a case of getting wires crossed.
Just say it to him that if it's alright with him, mass is the place for getting the ashes and you wanted to do it as a family etc His mammy probably told him her giving the ashes saves him having to go - he probably hasn't a clue that you think otherwise.
Keep it light - it's important to you but in the grand scheme of things it's not too big a deal.

letsbehonest

I think he was trying to be nice really and if your daughter was going to a catholic school she would prob have got them there anyway!

Ickle Magoo

How long have you been going out? I only ask that because you don't seem to know each other very well.

He was given ash from someone he loves and thinks highly of and who is religious, I assume - and he used that to ash his and your daughters foreheads?

It sounds like he doesn't know what level of importance you put on who dishes out the ash cross - the alternative is he deliberately got himself (a non-religious person) ashed and also ashed your daughter with legitimate church ash, to spite you...

How did your daughter feel? If it was fun for her and a bit of family bonding for them, surely that's a good thing?

All the best

tenchi-fan

It sounds a lot like the op suffers from "my child" syndrome. Generally creating drama in the guise of their child's welfare.

My sister is a teacher and she is plagued by it.

Blatter

Completely over sensitive and over the top reaction from you IMO.

He put some ash on your son on Ash Wednesday, that is all. What are you saying, the fact he dosen't go to mass and isn't very religious that it's completely inappropriate for him to engage in Catholic activities? No way, just go ask a priest what he thinks of it, he will be delighted that your boyfriend and your son have bonded over Ash Wednesday.

You need to lighted up and gain a lot more respect for your OH tbh.

Taltos

tenchi-fan wrote: »

It sounds a lot like the op suffers from "my child" syndrome. Generally creating drama in the guise of their child's welfare.

My sister is a teacher and she is plagued by it.

Op - there was nothing to stop you from just taking a deep breath. Telling your child to wash their face and heading out as you intended to mass. Nothing at all.

If religion is this important to you then for the sake of your relationship you will have to accept that to you BF it is not, or at least from what you have written not to the same extent or level as you.

Maybe sit back and ask yourself honestly why you reacted like you did? Be honest, even if you don't like what stares back at you. Also ask yourself did you present a good role model to your child in how you responded when you saw the ash? Remember children are sponges - and will learn from your reaction - whether it was good or not...

Finally maybe have a discussion of boundaries with your BF - if you feel he overstepped the mark - was he fully aware he was doing so - and what will constitute a breach next time?

Danniboo

OP, you need to practice what you preach(no pun intended). You say you're a very religious Catholic and are very adamant about there rituals, belief etc, yet you've shacked up with your boyfriend, and have had a child out of wedlock:rolleyes: Hypocrisy at it's finest!!!!

You seem to almost look down your nose at your bf. How nice was it of him to respect your beliefs and try and participate and get involved in something that is supposedely special and important to you. I'd say he'll be very hurt if you go lecturing him about this and it does come accross as you thinking he's not good enough to do this. Poor guy:(

cafecolour

advice please wrote: »

Because he had decided that this would be enough he also decided without asking, that we were missing the church.

This is the disturbing part to me. Are you saying your BF told you and your daughter that couldn't go to church, because he felt the ashes were good enough. Why would he be making the decision for you to 'miss' church? Couldn't you go without him?

i have to agree with Danniboo.. Under the shroud of religion, you're making your boyfriend suffer over your interpretation of him giving ash to your children while not even living a religious life yourself.

What he did was an innocent act of putting holy ash on your children.. Probably a good bonding moment in his mind.
What you did was have a huge over-reaction, look a bit looney and definitely give your boyrfriend something to think about.

People are usually accomodating over religious ignorance I would have thought and would only get offending by something blatently offensive. Instead, you were furious at him, offered him no forgiveness and quite frankly, showed a part of your personality that I would run a mile from.

mikemac

For a deeply religious person you'd know that many would say you are "living in sin". Unless they've changed the rules on living with your boyfriend

It was a lovely gesture by the guy but you took offence to it. It was thoughtful and he went out of his way to do it but you failed to see the good in it

But you seem more concerned with petty details.

Appreciate the gesture and if you're going to be so strict about rules, apply them to yourself

Vicxas

OP, im not religious. but i think what your boyfriend was trying to do was that he accepts your faith and was trying to show it as a gesture of goodwill towards your beliefs. I dont think he had any malice in it at all...

humanji

cafecolour wrote: »

This is the disturbing part to me. Are you saying your BF told you and your daughter that couldn't go to church, because he felt the ashes were good enough. Why would he be making the decision for you to 'miss' church? Couldn't you go without him?

+1 to this. The rest seems to be a misunderstanding, but him deciding you weren't going to mass is a bit odd. Did you go to mass anyway? Did he give a reason not to go?

ladygirl

I think Op that your boyfriend was trying to do a kind thing for your child. I dont think it was done with any malice or that he had a hidden agenda.

What he may not have understood is

It may have been a new experience for the child to go to mass and to get the ashes placed on forehead by the priest, something more special than your usual mass. I am not a deeply relegious person however know as a child I enjoyed this. It may have been the first time the child may have been old enough to understand what was happening on ash wednesday.
Im taking it that it was a fun experience for you and your child.

he simply needs this to be explained - but in a calm manner, as i truly dont believe he meant any harm, after all he has respected your relegion and was just trying to get involved.

LegacyUser

TBH it looks to me like the BF was being passive aggressive and some of the reactions here would support this. "Doing something nice" while actually putting down the religious aspect of it all. If he supplies the ashes then you don't have to go to church - and Mass - right? Clever guy. Cutting out the middle man - the church - and supplying his own ashes.

I don't take his actions at face value at all!

IrishEyes19

Zen65 wrote: »

Op,

I'm confused by your post.

Are you saying that the symbolism of the mark of ashes is adversely affected if a non-religious person is involved in some way?

If that is the case, can you explain why this is?


Or am I completely missing your point?

Be at peace,

Z

Dont think thats really the issue here, point is they arranged to go to mass and he';s not her daughters parent, he shouldnt have gone behind her back to get his own way in my opinion.

LegacyUser

We don't live together but my daughter and i were staying with him. I am divorced and had my child while i was married. My ex husband chose to leave me and i did not have a choice in the break up. I have been going out with my oh for 2 years. Perhaps before all the judgement of accusing me of not living a religious life you would either ask for facts or keep your incorrect assumptions to yourself. Had i had a child outside of wedlock or been living with my oh, i would still not have expected the level of judgement present in this thread.

As most have seemed to have missed out on it, my upset has centered around that he decided we were to miss going to the church because he'd gotten the ashes from his mother. I had made it clear to him that he didn't need to go in the first place but he said he would. His home is in a very rural location and the church is not within walking distance so as he had the car he needed to return the house for us to go, which he did so late, too late to go. When i had tried to ring him he wasn't answering although in his defence the signal is awful where he lives.

We have discussed it and he said that he got held up and was going to be late so he thought there was no point going if we would be late, he then went to his mothers to get the ashes. He said he didn't think to let me know he would be late or didn't think to ask me

Danniboo

advice please wrote: »

We don't live together but my daughter and i were staying with him. I am divorced and had my child while i was married. My ex husband chose to leave me and i did not have a choice in the break up. I have been going out with my oh for 2 years. Perhaps before all the judgement of accusing me of not living a religious life you would either ask for facts or keep your incorrect assumptions to yourself. Had i had a child outside of wedlock or been living with my oh, i would still not have expected the level of judgement present in this thread.

As most have seemed to have missed out on it, my upset has centered around that he decided we were to miss going to the church because he'd gotten the ashes from his mother. I had made it clear to him that he didn't need to go in the first place but he said he would. His home is in a very rural location and the church is not within walking distance so as he had the car he needed to return the house for us to go, which he did so late, too late to go. When i had tried to ring him he wasn't answering although in his defence the signal is awful where he lives.

We have discussed it and he said that he got held up and was going to be late so he thought there was no point going if we would be late, he then went to his mothers to get the ashes. He said he didn't think to let me know he would be late or didn't think to ask me

But yet you judge others who don't meet your religious expectations:rolleyes:

That's entirely different to your first post, he was late back so didn't think there was any point going to the mass, which is understandable. And then he had the decency to drive to his mothers to get ashes as he didn't want you too miss out on what was important to you, he sounds like an awful b*****d:rolleyes:

ztoical

advice please wrote: »

As most have seemed to have missed out on it, my upset has centered around that he decided we were to miss going to the church because he'd gotten the ashes from his mother. I had made it clear to him that he didn't need to go in the first place but he said he would. His home is in a very rural location and the church is not within walking distance so as he had the car he needed to return the house for us to go, which he did so late, too late to go. When i had tried to ring him he wasn't answering although in his defence the signal is awful where he lives.

OP you need to clear up what it is your upset about as your all over the place it seems. The thread title and first post suggests your issue was with your BF putting ash on your child without asking you, now it seems your upset that you missed mass because he said he would go but then didn't show up on time to bring you. If you've been seeing him for 2 years I find it very odd that this is coming up as an issue now. Either he just doesn't care one way or the other about religion and doesn't understand how important it is to you or he has issues with religion and is going out of his way to annoy you....either way if religion plays such an important role in your life it is very confusing that you could be seeing someone who doesn't share or at the very least understand your views.

LegacyUser

Danniboo wrote: »

But yet you judge others who don't meet your religious expectations:rolleyes:

That's entirely different to your first post, he was late back so didn't think there was any point going to the mass, which is understandable. And then he had the decency to drive to his mothers to get ashes as he didn't want you too miss out on what was important to you, he sounds like an awful b*****d:rolleyes:

roll eyes, really?

My second post is not completely different from my first, its adding more info and clearing up that my concern is with him being late and deciding we weren't going to the church. I am not happy that he took it upon himself to decide our level of religious involvement in ash wednesday when he is not religious at all. As he isn't he can't make the decision for me. Although i don't think one person should make decisions for others generally, we do have a good relationship and have made small decisions for each other before ut never on something we weren't well informed on. I feel that as he is not a religious person he would not be fully informed on the importance of this for me. I don't feel that i am unreasonable in this and am surprised you seem to think so.

LegacyUser

I work most weekends so we're usually not together when i'm going to the church. On the previous occassions when we were together he just hasn't come. This is the first time he said he didn't want to come. While religion is important to me i have never wanted to force that on him and other areas of our relationship are great. We live in different parts of the country so we might only see each other once or twice a month, as with my daughter i would be more restricted to travelling down to him for nights out and we both work near where we live, so its tricky but it generally works. I guess the downside is that we haven't encountered the majority of problems that most people would have by now

Blatter

advice please wrote: »

As most have seemed to have missed out on it, my upset has centered around that he decided we were to miss going to the church

Why put the thread TITLE "Boyfriend gave ashes to my child" if that's not what your upset was centred around?

Fittle

So the problem really is that he returned too late to bring you to mass to get ashes

And yet, because he probably knew he'd be too late to bring you, and knew you couldn't get there yourself, he got blessed ashes from his mother, thinking that would be ok for you...and your problem is???

LegacyUser

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Why put the thread TITLE "Boyfriend gave ashes to my child" if that's not what your upset was centred around?

I didn't think i should put an essay as a title and i didn't think a title was really important ??? But i guess not having much experience with forums i hadn't realised what a negative position it would put my post in. If i ever do post again i will be much more careful with titles. Thanks for imput

ztoical

advice please wrote: »

I work most weekends so we're usually not together when i'm going to the church. On the previous occassions when we were together he just hasn't come. This is the first time he said he didn't want to come. While religion is important to me i have never wanted to force that on him and other areas of our relationship are great. We live in different parts of the country so we might only see each other once or twice a month, as with my daughter i would be more restricted to travelling down to him for nights out and we both work near where we live, so its tricky but it generally works. I guess the downside is that we haven't encountered the majority of problems that most people would have by now

Right now I'm confused....you said he did agree to go to mass and then missed it due to running late but didn't think it was a big deal so didn't bother to contact you to say he was running late. Now your stating he didn't want to go. If he has issues with religion then you need to have a sit down and sort out were you stand as clearly this is a make or break issue for you.

LegacyUser

Fittle wrote: »

So the problem really is that he returned too late to bring you to mass to get ashes

And yet, because he probably knew he'd be too late to bring you, and knew you couldn't get there yourself, he got blessed ashes from his mother, thinking that would be ok for you...and your problem is???

No, he would have been a few mins late, but we would have been there for the majority of it. He decided he didn't want to go then and then went to his mothers for the ashes. The diversion meant that by the time he went off to his mothers and returned that had we gone straight to the church we would have arrived when everyone was leaving! His mother doesn't live too close to him. He never let me know that he was running late or his intention to go to his mothers and miss this.

I feel that
-if he didn't want to go, he should have just told me
-he should have let me know he was running late and consulted me about planning on going to his mothers for ashes and missing the church completely
-he should have asked me before applying the ashes to my child and almost myself!

He feels that it doesn't matter and is nothing for me to need to 'have a chat' over and that there isn't a problem between us, the only problem is with me. Which seems to also be the consensus of this thread

LegacyUser

ztoical wrote: »

Right now I'm confused....you said he did agree to go to mass and then missed it due to running late but didn't think it was a big deal so didn't bother to contact you to say he was running late. Now your stating he didn't want to go. If he has issues with religion then you need to have a sit down and sort out were you stand as clearly this is a make or break issue for you.

Opps sorry thats my fault there, thats just a typo. This is the first time he said he did want to come too. Unfortunately i can't edit the posts to reflect my mistake. Thanks for pointing it out and apologies again

Fittle

No-one is saying the issue is you.

Your original thread title was and is, misleading (you can send a pm to the mods to change it if you wish, I believe).

It seems that the real issue is that you feel he is trying to control you, broadly, would I be right?

ztoical

advice please wrote: »

No, he would have been a few mins late, but we would have been there for the majority of it. He decided he didn't want to go then and then went to his mothers for the ashes. The diversion meant that by the time he went off to his mothers and returned that had we gone straight to the church we would have arrived when everyone was leaving! His mother doesn't live too close to him. He never let me know that he was running late or his intention to go to his mothers and miss this.

I feel that
-if he didn't want to go, he should have just told me
-he should have let me know he was running late and consulted me about planning on going to his mothers for ashes and missing the church completely
-he should have asked me before applying the ashes to my child and almost myself!

He feels that it doesn't matter and is nothing for me to need to 'have a chat' over and that there isn't a problem between us, the only problem is with me. Which seems to also be the consensus of this thread

It's not a case OP that people think he's right and your wrong but rather there is a problem with your relationship. The start of the thread was confusing as it appeared your only issue was him applying ashes to your child and I assumed your issue was with him being non religious having an influence on your child. It's clear the issue is a lack of communication on both your parts with regard to religion. He either clearly does not understand how important your religion is to or he does but doesn't care nor respect your view. Regardless of which it is you need to have a sit down and discuss the issue as it is clearly something that will become a bigger issue down the road.

Leitrim lass

Not so sure wrote: »

TBH it looks to me like the BF was being passive aggressive and some of the reactions here would support this. "Doing something nice" while actually putting down the religious aspect of it all. If he supplies the ashes then you don't have to go to church - and Mass - right? Clever guy. Cutting out the middle man - the church - and supplying his own ashes.

I don't take his actions at face value at all!

I'd have to agree with this.
I'm presuming that your boyfriend is Irish and was brought up as a catholic if his mother lives here and she attends church. So he understands what ash Wednesday is about! It's not like the ritual of Ash Wednesday is some sort of a funny novelty to him.
I'm not at all religious but like your oh I was raised catholic and so I know that it is one of the most important days in the catholic calendar. I would no way treat somebody else's plans for that day in such a trivial manner.
He decides that instead of phoning you to tell you he will be late and giving you the choice of going to church without him or to wait for him and be a little late he calls off the whole thing WITHOUT consulting you. He decides that getting ashes from his mother will do the job instead.
I don't see how he was doing this as a nice bonding gesture for your daughter. To me it smacks of passive aggressive behaviour. I could go one further and suggest that he is belittling the meaning of the day for you.
If you said he was non Irish and had little exposure to the faith I would suggest like other posters that he meant no harm in his actions and was trying to do a nice thing. From how I see it he has shown complete disregard for what is important to you. Perhaps he has an issue with you being religious.
I'd suggest like others here that you need to talk even if he reckons that there is no issue. What is important to one person in a relationship should be respected by the other even if it's not there own personal view.

wylo

OP , Im not sure where all these crazy reactions are coming from, people are clearly not reading your posts properly, I was getting confused by the responses even before you posted your second post.
I know your probably livid now, but when your not quite as angry you need to explain to him that that kind of carry on is well out of order and unfair.

tenchi-fan

Not so sure wrote: »

TBH it looks to me like the BF was being passive aggressive and some of the reactions here would support this. "Doing something nice" while actually putting down the religious aspect of it all.

That's not passive aggression by the way.

Angeles

Ok, this is a basic lesson in guys being guys.
taking religion aside, this could be absolutely anything and everything dearly important to you.

Its very clear from this and other posts that your OH doesn't really see the importance of this to you, and in this case, no one is to blame but yourself.

advice please wrote: »

.

I feel that
-if he didn't want to go, he should have just told me

well did you tell him how important it was for you to go? or just say, can you pick me up to go get the ashes today in mass?..etc
This to a non religious person is not in anyway serious, as all he is going to see is 'OH needs ashes this evening'
What we are all seeing and realizing is that even though he may not have taken it serious, he took it serious enough to ensure you and your daughter had the ashes, his way of doing that was through his mother, this isn't a bad or mean decision process from him, its a kind way of him probably wanting to spend more time with you and not see the need to go to church... in his mind this is a Win win situation.

advice please wrote: »

.
-he should have let me know he was running late and consulted me about planning on going to his mothers for ashes and missing the church completely

-he should have asked me before applying the ashes to my child and almost myself!

Both of these in turn are side effects of your expectations once again, you are expecting him to know the seriousness of this. Did you actually seriously tell him that this is really really important? to the point you have every grounds for reason to give him an ear load?
I don't think this is the case, and instead you are upset that he made some decisions that went against your plans, to which the best advise given here would be not hold it against him, and have a chat and let him know how much all this meant to you so in future it won't happen again.

pickarooney

There's a lot of hostile poor-mouthing coming across in your posts, OP. Why exactly are you with this guy given your differences, the distance and the general level of hassle the minutiae of your life together seems to cause?

RandyMann

advice please wrote: »

No, he would have been a few mins late, but we would have been there for the majority of it. He decided he didn't want to go then and then went to his mothers for the ashes. The diversion meant that by the time he went off to his mothers and returned that had we gone straight to the church we would have arrived when everyone was leaving! His mother doesn't live too close to him. He never let me know that he was running late or his intention to go to his mothers and miss this.

I feel that
-if he didn't want to go, he should have just told me
-he should have let me know he was running late and consulted me about planning on going to his mothers for ashes and missing the church completely
-he should have asked me before applying the ashes to my child and almost myself!

He feels that it doesn't matter and is nothing for me to need to 'have a chat' over and that there isn't a problem between us, the only problem is with me. Which seems to also be the consensus of this thread

You say your husband left you, be careful that this current boyfriend of yours doesn't leave you also, with your wound up attitude. I wouldn't hang around anyways...

Lady von Purple

OP,
It seems to me that a lot of people are negatively responding to how important it was for you to bring your daughter to mass on Ash Wednesday and have a priest put ashes on your child's forehead, as (I assume) is traditional for you.
Despite your asking people not to be biased by their religious views, it seems to me that a lot of people are.
Mass, Ash Wednesday, blessings: It's a routine, it's a tradition, and it's important to you. I agree with other posters that your OH was trying to help, to make up for the fact that he was going to be late and he didn't want to make you and your daughter late for Mass.

What he probably should have done was either:
-Get home just a few minutes late and apologise for being late but such-and-such happened.

OR:
-Get the ashes from his mother
-Call you and let you know what was happening
-Bring home the ashes and then checked with you before putting the ashes on anyone.

Sorry for the length of this post, but it seems like a lot of advice here has been for you to get over it, and for some reason, criticism for your mis-titling the thread.

Anyway, your views here are completely valid. You're the child's mother, you wanted her blessed on a holy day by a priest. That makes sense.
Talk to your boyfriend, explain why you feel this way.

Absolutely acknowledge that he was trying to do something nice since he was running late. Don't be too harsh on him, but just let him know why this upset you.

Also, I don't think the OP is worried about her OH being controlling, it seems like she just thought his lack of communication was inconsiderate and his blessing her daughter showed a lack of understanding of what her religion means to her.

iguana

OP, if he had said right away that he didn't want to go how were you planning on getting to the church? I ask because it doesn't seem as if you had the means to get you and your daughter there by yourself. I wonder if he felt under pressure to bring you because surely, if you weren't putting him under pressure, it would have gone without saying that he didn't have to go?

booboo88

this is all a bit redundant isnt it? its not exactly a big issue.

Silverfish

RandyMann banned.


There has been a clear warning posted already in this thread. The charter also still applies to this thread. Any more unhelpful, off-topic, and / or abusive posts will result in an outright ban.