who is the best irish boxer past or present?

celtictiger32

just putting it out there for discussion.... anybody from barry mcguigan to katie taylor it doesnt matter even the nearly men and could of beens. what do you think.

p.s not sure if there has been a thread on this before but just thought id stick it up

Big Ears

Jimmy McLarnin, he holds more wins over fighters in the International Boxing Hall of fame than any other fighter(Irish or otherwise). An olden day Manny Pacquiao, rising from Flyweight to Welterweight and defeating elite fighters on the way. He holds wins over great such as Fidel Labrba, Pancho Villa, Benny Leonard, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Louis Kaplan, Sammy Mandell, Lou Ambers, Young Corbett and Jackie Fields among others.

To put it simply, for another Irish fighter to surpass him as the greatest Irish fighter ever they would almost certainly have to become the current p4p #1 fighter in the World.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlWPTK1eYVo

That's him in one of his very close fights with fellow great Barney Ross.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMDBq20Ob2I

and in his knockout win over Al Singer. You can see his progression from the Singer fight to the Ross fight where he is much improved.

I don't expect we'll ever have a fighter that possesses as a good a record or is as good for their time period as McLarnin again. You could find flaws in him that boxing was still progressing from his time period to the current day and that there are technical flaws in him. While that is true, he was still very advanced for his time, and his physical attributes as a fighter were tremendous too, he'd be a very hard man for most modern Lightweights-Welterweights to face.

hinault

I never heard of that boxer.

Truly I have learnt something new today!

celtictiger32

Big Ears wrote: »

Jimmy McLarnin, he holds more wins over fighters in the International Boxing Hall of fame than any other fighter(Irish or otherwise). An olden day Manny Pacquiao, rising from Flyweight to Welterweight and defeating elite fighters on the way. He holds wins over great such as Fidel Labrba, Pancho Villa, Benny Leonard, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Louis Kaplan, Sammy Mandell, Lou Ambers, Young Corbett and Jackie Fields among others.

To put it simply, for another Irish fighter to surpass him as the greatest Irish fighter ever they would almost certainly have to become the current p4p #1 fighter in the World.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlWPTK1eYVo

That's him in one of his very close fights with fellow great Barney Ross.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMDBq20Ob2I

and in his knockout win over Al Singer. You can see his progression from the Singer fight to the Ross fight where he is much improved.

I don't expect we'll ever have a fighter that possesses as a good a record or is as good for their time period as McLarnin again. You could find flaws in him that boxing was still progressing from his time period to the current day and that there are technical flaws in him. While that is true, he was still very advanced for his time, and his physical attributes as a fighter were tremendous too, he'd be a very hard man for most modern Lightweights-Welterweights to face.

good stuff wasnt expecting him as the first up but good contender alright.

slapbangwallop

Thread over! Big Ears is right.

The Scourge of the Hebrew fought and beat more Hall of Fame fighters than any other fighter EVER!

BE, have you got the documentary about him that was on Setanta back in the days?

FTA69

Yep, sin é; McLarnin has it.

Other possibilities could be the likes of John L Sullivan back in the prize fighter days. In modern times you'd have to say Barry McGuigan.

cowzerp

Collins was great and really lifted the spirits beating Pyatt, and Eubank and Benn twice..

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Collins was great and really lifted the spirits beating Pyatt, and Eubank and Benn twice..

Pyatt I wouldn't include, more a LM than middle; but good win all the same.
Pyatt did have a win over Kalambay, who beat Collins.,
Collins was a hero, warrior and all that, but horrible to watch. So awkward.

LK_Dave

Big Ears wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMDBq20Ob2I

and in his knockout win over Al Singer. You can see his progression from the Singer fight to the Ross fight where he is much improved.

I don't expect we'll ever have a fighter that possesses as a good a record or is as good for their time period as McLarnin again. You could find flaws in him that boxing was still progressing from his time period to the current day and that there are technical flaws in him. While that is true, he was still very advanced for his time, and his physical attributes as a fighter were tremendous too, he'd be a very hard man for most modern Lightweights-Welterweights to face.

The commentator states that McLarin at this stage is 23 was fighting 6 years, won 60 lost only 6. By any stretch of the imagination that is some record. A professional fight every month! Am I correct? The boy must be as tough as a coffin nail.

celtictiger32

cowzerp wrote: »

Collins was great and really lifted the spirits beating Pyatt, and Eubank and Benn twice..

yes i remember pro box that used to be on eurosport back in the day they would constantly be going on about eubank and then they met steve collins... brilliant

gene_tunney

If you want to stretch the definition of Irish, I'd say Dempsey, but that's pushing it.

celtictiger32

gene_tunney wrote: »

If you want to stretch the definition of Irish, I'd say Dempsey, but that's pushing it.

all allowed and its opinionated anyway so i didnt just mean who won the most or whatever......

slapbangwallop

gene_tunney wrote: »

If you want to stretch the definition of Irish, I'd say Dempsey, but that's pushing it.

Well it would be a stretch, despite the second name, Dempsey didnt consider himself Irish and considered himself more Native American is anything!

celtictiger32

what about any of the current crop anyone think their good enough to be one of the greats??????

Hannibal

Mike Tyson's biological fathers name is Jimmy Kirkpatrick, so does he count?

celtictiger32

Dotsey wrote: »

Mike Tyson's biological fathers name is Jimmy Kirkpatrick, so does he count?

wouldnt think so

Hannibal

celtictiger32 wrote: »

wouldnt think so

there has to be a bit of green in him somewhere with a name like that and could possibly be as Irish as Jack Dempsey.
I don't think there's any great Irish boxers around at the moment, but that could change if McCloskey beats Khan when they fight.
In my lifetime I think Collins and McCullough would be the two that stick out

celtictiger32

what about andy murray i think could be a future champion ??

Hannibal

celtictiger32 wrote: »

what about andy murray i think could be a future champion ??

I know he's unbeaten but at 28 he still has a long way to go to fight top class opponents, so far he's fought nobodys. So there's a few major steps to be taken to move up in the rankings

yabadabado

The doc about Mclarnin that was on Setanta is well worth a watch.I dont think it is available on-line.

cowzerp

Dotsey wrote: »

Mike Tyson's biological fathers name is Jimmy Kirkpatrick, so does he count?

His father is/was Irish, but mike did not really know him.

celtictiger32

Dotsey wrote: »

I know he's unbeaten but at 28 he still has a long way to go to fight top class opponents, so far he's fought nobodys. So there's a few major steps to be taken to move up in the rankings

true looks like he has a bit all the same.. maybe some of the amateur lads coming through will make the grade ive seen a good few of them and some of them look like they could be top notch pros

walshb

What's this Mike Tyson Irish claim?

I know we as Irish try to claim everyone as one of ours; even Ali
was Irish according to some. So, Tyson's dad? Irish? What?

Was he born here? Is he white? Has he ginger hair too?

As for Andy Murray? I am still waiting on Murray to fight something even fringe world class.
Will he ever be a legit world champion? I think I would stand a better chance
at winning the lotto. Sorry Andy!

celtictiger32

walshb wrote: »

What's this Mike Tyson Irish claim?

I know we as Irish try to claim everyone as one of ours; even Ali
was Irish according to some. So, Tyson's dad? Irish? What?

Was he born here? Is he white? Has he ginger hair too?

As for Andy Murray? I am still waiting on Murray to fight something even fringe world class.
Will he ever be a legit world champion? I think I would stand a better chance
at winning the lotto. Sorry Andy!

not a bit harsh?? i do agree he hasnt fought anyone of too much note but i do think he is an excellant boxer who has a lot of potential

Hannibal

cowzerp wrote: »

His father is/was Irish, but mike did not really know him.

Doesn't matter whether he knew him or not, if there's green flowing through Tyson we should claim him as a national treasure.

celtictiger32

ah i think your clutching at straws claiming mike tyson as irish

Johner

Gotta be Paddy Murphy,






This was him in his early bareknuckle days,


Him after winning keeping his unbeaten record intact,


And finally capturing the world title and bringing it back home, Great times!

Big Ears

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Thread over! Big Ears is right.

The Scourge of the Hebrew fought and beat more Hall of Fame fighters than any other fighter EVER!

BE, have you got the documentary about him that was on Setanta back in the days?

Although I'm aware of it I've never even seen the thing, heard it was very good.
As for Jack Dempsey, the one which the heavyweight took his name from(nonpareil) is actually a decent shout, but not up there with McLarnin imo http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=17958&cat=boxer

celtictiger32

Johner wrote: »

Gotta be Paddy Murphy,






This was him in his early bareknuckle days,


Him after winning keeping his unbeaten record intact,


And finally capturing the world title and bringing it back home, Great times!

is that that guy alvarez, if it is i watched that fight with him and matthew hatton the other night, this guy is good looks kind of like a heavyweight style fighter imo.............. but unfortunately even though he has the look hes not irish

FTA69

That man is absolutely positively Irish, I don't care if he's Latino; anyone that ginger has to be Irish.

As for Tyson's father being Irish, pure nonsense. There's loads of blacks in the USA with Irish names due to slavery.

celtictiger32

the commentator for that fight even said he looks like he should be fighting out of dublin......... cheeky

H. Flashman

Dotsey wrote: »

Mike Tyson's biological fathers name is Jimmy Kirkpatrick, so does he count?

yeah and Ali claims relations in clare

celtictiger32

Big Ears wrote: »

Although I'm aware of it I've never even seen the thing, heard it was very good.
As for Jack Dempsey, the one which the heavyweight took his name from(nonpareil) is actually a decent shout, but not up there with McLarnin imo http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=17958&cat=boxer

you obviously have a knowledge of the boxers of old, what about the new contenders, anybody in the amateur ranks that you think might make the grade??

Big Ears

celtictiger32 wrote: »

you obviously have a knowledge of the boxers of old, what about the new contenders, anybody in the amateur ranks that you think might make the grade??

Well we've a professional by the name of Carl Frampton who turned pro only 20 months ago and he looks to be a bit special. He's already Ireland's best Super-Bantamweight imo(better than both Hyland and Casey) and I'd be quite surprised if he didn't go on to win a World title. If any of our current pros are destined for greatness I would guess it's him.

These may seem like obvious choices but I feel Paddy Barnes or John Joe Nevin may be our best chance with amateur stars that may make the standard as a pro. Barnes is our best little (little) man since Rinty Monaghan and if he turns pro after the next Olympics I feel with his style, strength and general craft he'd have the makings of a top, top pro. One of the best sub Bantamweight fighters Europe will have seen in a long time.

Having watched Nevin in the World series of Boxing, any doubts I had over whether he'd make a good pro or not have been put to rest. Although quite a few of his fights have been against naturally smaller men, he's looked quite strong in there, with the pro style game and his technical ability is there for all to see. He has the potential to be really, really special.

Honourable mentions to Con Sheehan and Joe Ward, two young big men who should ensure Ireland has at least one very good heavyweight(or massive Cruiserweight) in the not too distant future.

walshb

Nevin? Making it in the pro game? I do not see it at all; the same way I never saw Paul Griffin or Michael Carruth making it. Their styles are amatuer styles. Nevin is far "too" lazy for the pros"

As for Frampton. Simply far too early for me to make a prediction. Yes, he looks good, but lets see him in with something better first. When he meets quality and beats quality then I will take notice.

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

Nevin? Making it in the pro game? I do not see it at all; the same way I never saw Paul Griffin or Michael Carruth making it. Their styles are amatuer styles.
Nevin is far "too" lazy for the pros"

As for Frampton. Simply far too early for me to make a prediction. Yes, he looks good, but lets see him in with something better first. When he meets quality and beats quality then I will take notice.

I was very hesitant about proclaiming Nevin a prospect as a pro, but looking at how he's coped in the WSB I think he has all the tools to be a top, top fighter. http://http://video.lequipe.fr/search/?q=nevin, there's all of his fights so far.

I understand what you say about Frampton, but if I was forced to make a prediction on whether he'll make it or not now, I'd be firmly confident in my selection that he will. Many fighters make the trip across the Atlantic to get the best sparring that they can, that simply isn't available here. Although Frampton doesn't do that he does get plenty of work with the best in the business this side of the water, and working with guys like John Simpson, Jason Booth and Ian Napa seems to be bringing him along nicely. He's got the power, accuracy, timing, ability to string shots together, speed, pretty much seemingly everything at the minute.

Now of course things can go wrong, he can stop progressing, turn out to have weak punch resistance, just not be able to deal with certain styles at all etc. But so far he has checked all the boxes, including a tight defence, which is unusual to see in pressure fighters coming up through the ranks. For me he seems most likely to be up to British level already, we'll find out for sure in the next 6-9 months. Whether he gets further than that we'll see, but for my money he will.

gene_tunney

Any chance you'll sort out that Nevin link Big ears? Won't work for me.

Big Ears

gene_tunney wrote: »

Any chance you'll sort out that Nevin link Big ears? Won't work for me.

Done, I accidently had http:// in twice.

Dr. Greenthumb

what was the name of the young lad that went to train with Freddie Roach last year? Any news on his progress?

barney4001

JIMMY MCCLARNIN WAS FROM HILLSBOROUGH AREA A PLACE CALLED RAVERNET

Big Ears

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

what was the name of the young lad that went to train with Freddie Roach last year? Any news on his progress?

Jamie Kavanagh, he's 5-0 now and is due to appear on the Khan vs McCloskey undercard next month. He's looked pretty good so far but he seems to be a bit feather fisted.

Andy101

It might have been mentioned already as a young up and coming boxer, but what about joe ward could he be the next big thing for irish boxing, you know the 17 year old from moate who recently bet kenny egan, the kid is already a world youth title holder. Any thoughts on him making it big?

walshb

Andy101 wrote: »

It might have been mentioned already as a young up and coming boxer, but what about joe ward could he be the next big thing for irish boxing, you know the 17 year old from moate who recently bet kenny egan, the kid is already a world youth title holder. Any thoughts on him making it big?

Biggest quetsion for him is how he develops physically over the next few years. Something he or we just don't know. He's so young, and still has to fully mature. It's a physiological thing with Joe. Hope it goes well. He has the talent, the balance and the moves.

Big mentioned Con Sheehan. I wasn't overly impressed with him this year.
I saw nothing outstanding. Sorry. Good, but not something I would
think could really go far.

barney4001

Young Ward looks like he is going places in boxing circles good luck to him

jayroyal

walshb wrote: »

Biggest quetsion for him is how he develops physically over the next few years. Something he or we just don't know. He's so young, and still has to fully mature. It's a physiological thing with Joe. Hope it goes well. He has the talent, the balance and the moves.

Big mentioned Con Sheehan. I wasn't overly impressed with him this year.
I saw nothing outstanding. Sorry. Good, but not something I would
think could really go far.

Where you at the seniors this year to see him or you just going on one fight in the finals

celtictiger32

Big Ears wrote: »

Jamie Kavanagh, he's 5-0 now and is due to appear on the Khan vs McCloskey undercard next month. He's looked pretty good so far but he seems to be a bit feather fisted.

is that the guy from crumlin??

terrymccarthy05

Gene Tunney. both parents were Irish. His only defeat was to Harry Greb

keane=cock

Big Ears wrote: »

Jamie Kavanagh, he's 5-0 now and is due to appear on the Khan vs McCloskey undercard next month. He's looked pretty good so far but he seems to be a bit feather fisted.

dont think he has lost a round in any of his fight either!

keane=cock

celtictiger32 wrote: »

is that the guy from crumlin??

no i think he is from tallaght. could be wrong here

could it be dean byrne your thinking of???

celtictiger32

keane=cock wrote: »

no i think he is from tallaght. could be wrong here

could it be dean byrne your thinking of???

thats the one..... isnt he over with freddie roach??

jumpin jaysus

a lot of young talent coming through the amateur ranks alright.

also i like the look of young frampton, early days but looks promising