Buses to go from Mountjoy Square

CIE

Evening Herald

Was this part of Network Direct too, or is ND a symptom of stuff like this?

Losty Dublin

There are private bus parking spaces around the square so it's them that it's referring to.

AlekSmart

Only in Ireland could a "major" National Daily title be allowed to produce such sloppily researched and poorly written drivel such as this.

Bus Depot indeed

This will doubtlessly effect Matthews Coaches who currently use much of the square as a stance for their succesful M1 based routes.

But it really does throw the Public Transport policies of what is touted as a "Major EU Capital City " into sharp relief.

I wonder if the very City Councillors who wax so lyrical about this "Architectural Heritage" actually take the time to take a close look at much of it......:o

markpb

Whatever about the other bus companies, I don't understand why DB need to use Mountjoy Square or any of the surrounding streets when it's literally hundreds of meters away from Summerhill depot.

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

Whatever about the other bus companies, I don't understand why DB need to use Mountjoy Square or any of the surrounding streets when it's literally hundreds of meters away from Summerhill depot.

Eh....Markpb,they don`t,at least not any more.

There`s only the single DB Bus Bay left in use now and that`s on the Western Side of MJ Sq.

As for using Summerhill Garage as anything other than a Garage,it`s probably because thats what it is...a Garage...Admin,maintenance and sweet FA else..access even for those reasons is contentious.

I can see where your lack of understanding is coming from though.....I tend to get the same feeling when travelling through small hick-towns in the UK with Public Bus Stations,herringbone parking,prioritized access.....sigh.....:rolleyes:

markpb

AlekSmart wrote: »

Eh....Markpb,they don`t,at least not any more. There`s only the single DB Bus Bay left in use now and that`s on the Western Side of MJ Sq.

Apologies, the last time I passed there, there were quite a few buses parked up.

As for using Summerhill Garage as anything other than a Garage,it`s probably because thats what it is...a Garage...Admin,maintenance and sweet FA else..access even for those reasons is contentious.

What do you mean by contentious? Obviously I'm not familiar with the inside of the garage but I don't understand how there is space to park plenty of buses overnight but not enough space to park 4-5 buses for a few minutes instead of using on-street parking. (This is where I take off my pro-transport hat and put on my pro-Dublin hat )

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

Apologies, the last time I passed there, there were quite a few buses parked up.



What do you mean by contentious? Obviously I'm not familiar with the inside of the garage but I don't understand how there is space to park plenty of buses overnight but not enough space to park 4-5 buses for a few minutes instead of using on-street parking. (This is where I take off my pro-transport hat and put on my pro-Dublin hat )

Contentious here means Safety.

Summerhill Garage has a angled gateway with conflicting pedestrian flows on two sides,something already considered an issue in Health N Safety terms.

Even in the heyday of the 46A MJ Sq "experiment" the stabling of "Euro Duties" here was causing problems,particularly where the traffic flow merges back onto MJ Sq proper (Pay close attention to the regulatory signage here !!)

IF SH Garage was designed from the outset as a "Live" Bus Depot then I`d be all in favour,but it`s not.

Personally,I`d be looking at routing/terminating at least some routes in or around the Croke Park/Jones Road/Clonliffe Road/Drumcondra Road area where capacity and frequency is about to become quite an issue indeed after the Network Direct "Team" are finished their work here

markpb

AlekSmart wrote: »

IF SH Garage was designed from the outset as a "Live" Bus Depot then I`d be all in favour,but it`s not.

As always I bow to your knowledge and helpfulness

KD345

AlekSmart wrote: »

Eh....Markpb,they don`t,at least not any more.

There`s only the single DB Bus Bay left in use now and that`s on the Western Side of MJ Sq.

That will change soon when the 2, 7, 7b and 8 move there. It will be interesting to see how those changes go down!

currins_02

As a coach driver I will probably be viewed as biased but I have to say I find this move a farce and a back ward step. Yes the Square has been over utilised by Matthews of late but it is also the main coach parking area for Croke Park.

Management of the Square for major events has traditionally been poor by the authorities. Attempts were made in the past ot operate a one way system around the square for such events but due to a personnel shift change this fell apart as the second shift of Gardai knew nothing about it!!

Otherwise Mountjoy Square was one of the few safe parking places for coaches in the city centre. Marlborough St is a drug adled disaster during the day and a no go zone at night, Western Way is dodgy day & night, Cardiff Lane is ropey at night etc etc. Coach tourism is the fastest growing area of our incoming tourist industry yet in all we have an aversion to providing correct facilities. There are umpteen coach parking areas in central London in areas much more architecturally significant than Mountjoy Sq. It smells of typical Irish NIMBYism and the strange thing is that the coaches are on the college side of Mountjoy Square which has the least residential units and those that are there are renting.

The reason car parking is "under utilised" in Sean MacDermott St is because people wouldn't leave their cars there - might not be what people want to hear but fact. Should we be expected to leave €250k to €300k vehicles in that area? Would we expect to drop incoming tourists there (I know one American tour guide who will not permit a driver to travel in the general Gardiner St area due to the social issues there)? We have many foreign coaches which come into Dublin all summer from the UK and Europe do we expect to park their vehicles there overnight? The proximity to Fitzgibbon St station was another redeeming factor of Mountjoy Square.

The new proposed parking is too far from Croke Park for concerts/matches and even at that I wouldn't drop a load of passengers in Sean MacDermott St anyway for their own (and their belongings) safety. Not being stereotypical just realistic. Mark my words on a match day we'll be back to coaches parking in every side street, gap, nook and cranny and that'll be another big fuss. We'll be moved again, hopefully somewhere convenient like Ballymun or Tallaght!

We're struggling as a nation to compete internationally for tourists yet the single growth area in that industry last year is being marginalised yet again. I'd be interested to know who from any tourism body, the Coach Tourism & Transport Council, the GAA etc was invited to defend the current arrangements?

AlekSmart

currins_02 wrote: »

Management of the Square for major events has traditionally been poor by the authorities. Attempts were made in the past ot operate a one way system around the square for such events but due to a personnel shift change this fell apart as the second shift of Gardai knew nothing about it!!

Otherwise Mountjoy Square was one of the few safe parking places for coaches in the city centre. Marlborough St is a drug adled disaster during the day and a no go zone at night, Western Way is dodgy day & night, Cardiff Lane is ropey at night etc etc. ....

........The reason car parking is "under utilised" in Sean MacDermott St is because people wouldn't leave their cars there - might not be what people want to hear but fact. Should we be expected to leave €250k to €300k vehicles in that area? Would we expect to drop incoming tourists there (I know one American tour guide who will not permit a driver to travel in the general Gardiner St area due to the social issues there)? We have many foreign coaches which come into Dublin all summer from the UK and Europe do we expect to park their vehicles there overnight? The proximity to Fitzgibbon St station was another redeeming factor of Mountjoy Square.

The new proposed parking is too far from Croke Park for concerts/matches and even at that I wouldn't drop a load of passengers in Sean MacDermott St anyway for their own (and their belongings) safety. Not being stereotypical just realistic. Mark my words on a match day we'll be back to coaches parking in every side street, gap, nook and cranny and that'll be another big fuss. We'll be moved again, hopefully somewhere convenient like Ballymun or Tallaght!

We're struggling as a nation to compete internationally for tourists yet the single growth area in that industry last year is being marginalised yet again. I'd be interested to know who from any tourism body, the Coach Tourism & Transport Council, the GAA etc was invited to defend the current arrangements?

Some excellent points there and most of them so long running that they could have figured on the inaugural Late Late Show.

The point re the attempt to have a one-way system and the Garda interest/involvement is so true...even on Patricks Day,with supposedly an agreed Traffic Management Plan in force,Busdrivers were encountering individual gardai who had been given instructions from God,which,of course,were at total variance to the agreed plan....This happens each and every time the City has an "Event" and really does reflect poorly on the Garda Command and Control structure.

It appears to be City Council policy to mix coaches/buses and the "livelier" areas of the city.

It should be noted that the only reason Dublin Bus fled Mountjoy Square after 1900 was after a particularly vicious robbery/assault on a young 46A driver,who has not returned to work since.

The locations mentioned in currins post are essentially no-go areas,which most Dubliners will give a wide berth to and which even Gardai will not spend too long on foot in.

Instead DCC preens itself and spouts nonsense about seeking-out and eradicating free on-street CAR parking...big deal,woo-hoo..what a forward thinking local authority we possess...truly world class.

Just look at the shambles surrounding Trinity College,one of the biggest visitor attractions in the State...yet it all appears as if DCC have only just heard about this Book of Kells thing....? :eek:

awesome00

as someone who lives on mountjoy square it's a nice place it's quite has a park which are few and far between in a city, but there is a blight in the form of private couches 80% being full of gaa fans, when they come the place becomes dirty, noisy, and an consciousness of stupidity erupts. I'm unable to open my windows on hot days because of the exhaust fumes from these couches, I cant let my cat sit at the window because these Jersey wearing morons throw things at it. if I want to go to the corner for something all I see is rubbish, beer cans and bottles and grown adults peeing in the street in the middle of the day drunk out of the skulls.

why can't they do this in a commercial area, every other city and town in the world has couch parking in designated non-residential places. but not Dublin, here's an idea build a multi story couch park at the stadium.

AlekSmart

awesome00 wrote: »

as someone who lives on mountjoy square it's a nice place it's quite has a park which are few and far between in a city, but there is a blight in the form of private couches 80% being full of gaa fans, when they come the place becomes dirty, noisy, and an consciousness of stupidity erupts. I'm unable to open my windows on hot days because of the exhaust fumes from these couches, I cant let my cat sit at the window because these Jersey wearing morons throw things at it. if I want to go to the corner for something all I see is rubbish, beer cans and bottles and grown adults peeing in the street in the middle of the day drunk out of the skulls.

Why can't they do this in a commercial area, every other city and town in the world has couch parking in designated non-residential places. but not Dublin, here's an idea build a multi story couch park at the stadium.

Well Awesome,The Bus Atha Cliath contribution to your misfortunate state is about to diminish.

Following the smashing of several windows on new GT class vehicles the number 7 route has once again been curtailed back to Parnell Square after 1900 hours.

So a victory for commonsense,but a defeat for the significant number of people who wish to go there.

This is in tandem with all N11 Routes now being forced to bypass UCD Belfield after 2200 all week in order to allow the Student Body to express their desires for further education....:eek:

stop

AlekSmart wrote: »

awesome00 wrote: »

as someone who lives on mountjoy square it's a nice place it's quite has a park which are few and far between in a city, but there is a blight in the form of private couches 80% being full of gaa fans, when they come the place becomes dirty, noisy, and an consciousness of stupidity erupts. I'm unable to open my windows on hot days because of the exhaust fumes from these couches, I cant let my cat sit at the window because these Jersey wearing morons throw things at it. if I want to go to the corner for something all I see is rubbish, beer cans and bottles and grown adults peeing in the street in the middle of the day drunk out of the skulls.

Why can't they do this in a commercial area, every other city and town in the world has couch parking in designated non-residential places. but not Dublin, here's an idea build a multi story couch park at the stadium.

Well Awesome,The Bus Atha Cliath contribution to your misfortunate state is about to diminish.

Following the smashing of several windows on new GT class vehicles the number 7 route has once again been curtailed back to Parnell Square after 1900 hours.

So a victory for commonsense,but a defeat for the significant number of people who wish to go there.

This is in tandem with all N11 Routes now being forced to bypass UCD Belfield after 2200 all week in order to allow the Student Body to express their desires for further education....:eek:

With no regard for anyone working or studying late in Belfield!

awesome00

AlekSmart wrote: »

Well Awesome,The Bus Atha Cliath contribution to your misfortunate state is about to diminish.

Following the smashing of several windows on new GT class vehicles the number 7 route has once again been curtailed back to Parnell Square after 1900 hours.

So a victory for commonsense,but a defeat for the significant number of people who wish to go there.

Dublin bus has little affect on the problem as there buses don't sit for up to an hour with there engines on for some reason or parking for hours for free they also do bring hordes of GAA fans whose sole purpose seem to be, to be noisy,litter and be drunk as hell by three in the afternoon,also blocking a park view. If members of my family want to park they have to pay or be clamped. this is a residential area not a free coach park.

currins_02

Awesome the stale smell of blatant NIMBYism is rank.

Firstly, without overloading you with technicality, buses and coaches are subject to stringent annual testing including a smoke test. All vehicles are now subject to EURO rating for emissions. It may shock you to learn that generally a coach will emit less particulate and NOx than a large bore diesel car. This is acheived through exhaust treatment, exhaust gas recirculation, NOx filters, particulate filters, Ad-Blu etc - but your misinformation will know little of any of that.

Yesterday there were hundreds of cars and less than 30 (I counted - did you? - I can give you the exact number) coaches on the square. Not one coach had it's engine running once they pulled in, they did when loading to leave but that is required so the driver can run lights etc. In most instances this was less than 30 mins but again were emitting less pollution than the thousands of cars stuck in traffic around the square.

The handful of residents of the square who fought an uncontested campaign to have coaches removed (nobody from any representative body was invited to defend the downright misinformed lies) were right on one point (and one only) the coaches should and would pay for parking. That would prevent the abuse of the parking which was rife by certain private operators.

Unfortunately the problem with Croke Park, the O2, the Aviva et all is that they were all allowed be developed without any thought of coach parking. For environmental, public safety and traffic reasons it is an ongoing fight to get people to utilise public transport such as coaches to get to these events but yet in all we have no where to park them.

Lastly, most of the coaches attending the match yesterday had no alcohol on board policies. The square is a natural passage to Croke Park used by 1000's of people coming from everywhere on foot and by car. But sure why suggest it is most of these who are on street drinking, peeing on the street and using your cat for target practise. Sure lets just generalise and ASSUME they were all the coach passengers - many of those I saw drinking on the street were drinking from convenience store bags - did they buy those on the coach - no they bought it in Dublin.

Have you a problem with the GAA in general - you direct more sweeping generalisations at them.

You should start another campaign to get gates all around the square and allow only residents who own their properties (cut all that riff raff renting who occupy the majority of residential units on the square) to access it, close Gardiner St.

I'm sorry I'm angry but the misinformation, NIMBYism and one sided tripe riles me. Mountjoy Sq is not ideal for coach parking but is the best solution for the largest Stadium in the country.

awesome00

Awesome the stale smell of blatant NIMBYism is rank croke park would be the first I'd point a finger at for the correct use of this .


It may shock you to learn that generally a coach will emit less particulate and NOx than a large bore diesel car. This is acheived through exhaust treatment, exhaust gas recirculation, NOx filters, particulate filters, Ad-Blu etc - but your misinformation will know little of any of that. less but not small enough, and I am aware that that modern coaches and buses are a lot more green then there most four wheeled counter-parts. but what they lack are transparency filters, I can't look through them.

Yesterday there were hundreds of cars and less than 30 (I counted - did you? - I can give you the exact number) coaches on the square. Not one coach had it's engine running once they pulled in, they did when loading to leave but that is required so the driver can run lights etc. In most instances this was less than 30 mins but again were emitting less pollution than the thousands of cars stuck in traffic around the square. 30..the original agreement back in 1997 was for 10 coaches on the south side of the square park side of the road, anything more is breaking this agreement, and the addition of last October's meeting between the "mount joy square society" minister for transport and whoever else was there was they were to be moved to north wall quay or pay to park. I believe putting them south side was for PR so they could hide them in the event of Georgian Dublin photos or news pieces.

The handful of residents of the square who fought an uncontested campaign to have coaches removed (nobody from any representative body was invited to defend the downright misinformed lies) were right on one point (and one only) the coaches should and would pay for parking. That would prevent the abuse of the parking which was rife by certain private operators. If your talking about the "mount-joy square society" I've looked at there website and if i was to guess I'd think there was a lot of older people trying to suit themselves or complaining for the sake of it they want; without actually using the words "get rid of the playground" there's also a public's works office in the park for managing liffey board-walk they want gone I don't see a problem with either the building is surrounded by green to hide about 70% of it. I've yet to see one coach with a pay and display sticker is there's a prepaid scheme I don't know about?

Unfortunately the problem with Croke Park, the O2, the Aviva et all is that they were all allowed be developed without any thought of coach parking. For environmental, public safety and traffic reasons it is an ongoing fight to get people to utilise public transport such as coaches to get to these events but yet in all we have no where to park them. croke park and the aviva have this parking problem the o2 does not, it has a lot of space for coach parking, I've seen dozens parked when going to concerts.
Getting people to use public transport... there have been a few steps to help this recently, the leap card which works across dart & commuter trains as well as Dublin bus and Lucas shame bus eireann haven't joined. joining the luas lines which hopefully will be finished in less then two years, the public transport bridge being build at the end of marlborough st adding an extra link across the city. The recession has also then people out of there cars because they can't afford to run them. dublin city bikes is probably the most successful scheme implemented but that could be because it was copied exactly from one somewhere on the continent.

Lastly, most of the coaches attending the match yesterday had no alcohol on board policies. The square is a natural passage to Croke Park used by 1000's of people coming from everywhere on foot and by car. But sure why suggest it is most of these who are on street drinking, peeing on the street and using your cat for target practise. Sure lets just generalise and ASSUME they were all the coach passengers - many of those I saw drinking on the street were drinking from convenience store bags - did they buy those on the coach - no they bought it in Dublin. yes they did but it in Dublin this is where the couch parking problem finishes ,they can't all be coach passengers but a individual person will think if I'm going to get so drunk I'm going to be peeing in public in broad daylight and participate in group thinking, I'm not going to drive, that leaves us with (when there not people from the greater Dublin area) private coaches,trains if possible and bus eireann. I don't live at a bus station or train station. buses bring the people here,I'm not against parking close to croke park but it shouldn't be a problem for me or any other residence, the city should have a proper coach park near to the city but not in someone face with proper amenities and regular shuttle service to the stadium that's all that's needed if i had the capital I'd gladly build it.

Have you a problem with the GAA in general - you direct more sweeping generalisations at them. yes. I used to work in drumcondra and I live now on mount-joy square I don't like the group thinking of someone else will clean it up, it's not my wall, I don't live here so, so what. a person is smart groups are not.

You should start another campaign to get gates all around the square and allow only residents who own their properties (cut all that riff raff renting who occupy the majority of residential units on the square) to access it, close Gardiner St. as someone who has rented here in the past and owns now I would never refer to people who rent as "riff raff". also it would be very hard to gate such a large area in the city, the square is one of the few places in the city where you can drive both ways, I've no problem with traffic as long as it's moving and not blocking my view like a monolith.

I'm sorry I'm angry but the misinformation, NIMBYism and one sided tripe riles me. Mountjoy Sq is not ideal for coach parking but is the best solution for the largest Stadium in the country. it's OK to get a bit angry if you think you have a point, I don't want it out of my way and in someone else that's not very nice, I want it dealt with correctly. I wouldn't agree with it it being the best solution I'd say it's "a" solution as much as putting everything from a bedroom floor into a press when you have company is a solution, have a good day nice talking to you.

currins_02

Can I ask where you saw the coach parking for the O2? There is none, coaches are permitted to drop off on the street and must vacate or get clamped/ticketed. They then have to return no earlier than 30mins prior to event finish and await passengers. It is false in anyway to suggest there is parking available for this facility.

Drop and return is not a solution for 2 main reasons -
1) drivers are severely restricted by Tachograph, EU drivers Hours legislationa and the Working Time Directive. Time spent driving aimlessly around the city looking for parking is all out of the drivers day. Fine for someone coming into Dublin from say 2 hours away but in the case of coaches carrying passengers from the west of the country it is not feasible. The driver has 9 hours of daily driving (broken up by breaks etc) and when coming from Donegal, Galway, Cork, Mayo, Kerry etc it is almost impossible to do it legally already without being made non compliant to pacify people. The problem started at the planning point but since the facilities have gotten planning and relevant event licences the fact is that buses/coaches must be afforded some form of accomodation (and most operators/drivers are quite willing to pay for that by pay and display or whatever - that is nor never was an issue)
2) Most of the patrons on these coaches are what you will probably call "culchies" or the great unwashed to others. In a drop and return situation the coach can rarley get back to the spot it dropped off at so people inevitable get lost, disorientated and upset. One of the few facts you correctly state is that stadia worldwide have official coach parking - I have driven to many and you park, drop, stay and leave from the same point which sorts out this problem.

Where did you see the dozens parked? Probably lining the road after 10:45pm waiting on a concert to finish and no word of the couple of hours they spent aimlessly driving around prior to that.

So you're in favour of people using public transport obviously as long as that public transport does not pull up within sight of your property.

So being a relatively recent owner on the Square were the coaches or you there first?? The old system of non paid free parking was abused and I am the first to say so but the simple introduction of meters for coaches would have quickly cured the problem.

A satellite coach park with shuttle service is a proven failure in international trials. Works reasonably prior to an event but delays the dispersal of persons catastrophically after events. To clear 80,000 peopel from Croke Park all leaving en masse at the same time would require a massive amount of shuttles, road/lane closures to get the shuttles in and out etc and would still take hours as an operation to complete.

The agreement for 10 coaches was only for the day to day parking not for event parking. There were 27 coaches and minibuses on the Square yesterday, I can list each and every one and in some cases provide pictures. It is estimated that 300-400 coaches serviced the event (only 20,000 of the 80,000 capacity) so less than 10% were on the Square.

Unfortunately, the Square is the only current solution for Croke Park, there is no other potential spot for parking multiple vehicles within a 10min walk of the stadium. It needs to be sufficient to hold the vehicles, safe and close enough for patrons to walk to and from. Currently there are no alternatives available.

The main fault lies with those who approved the planning for the stadium and those who are licencing it for events. Instead of picking on the coaches who are a necessary evil once events get the go ahead why not try oppose the planning of any furture development and oppose the issuing of licences for events.

markpb

currins_02 wrote: »

The main fault lies with those who approved the planning for the stadium and those who are licencing it for events.

+1

I wonder if the redevelopment of Croke Park had happened in a single go rather than over the course of several decades, would the planners have been more mindful of the provision of mass transport?

Additionally, this article shows that development at Croke Park isn't finished. They plan to demolish the council flats (shown here) so there's hope that DCC might yet see fit to force the inclusion of mass transport facilities.

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

+1

I wonder if the redevelopment of Croke Park had happened in a single go rather than over the course of several decades, would the planners have been more mindful of the provision of mass transport?

Additionally, this article shows that development at Croke Park isn't finished. They plan to demolish the council flats (shown here) so there's hope that DCC might yet see fit to force the inclusion of mass transport facilities.

Well CLG sure do a very impressive colouredy brochure....:)

Vahevala

It reminds me of Parnell Square, I have never understood why Dublin Bus are let away with having parked buses parked at the bus stops opposite the Rotunda, it makes it so hard in picking out your bus as you literally need to stand in the middle of the road to see if your bus is coming! :mad:

AlekSmart

stop wrote: »

With no regard for anyone working or studying late in Belfield!

Not quite as simple as you might wish it,Stop.

The carry-on which occurs each year along the N11,has in recent years spread to the Clonskeagh Road as the more compos-mentis of the Student Body attempted to drag even more down to their own level of behaviour.

What is perhaps not so easily understood is the worsening of the conduct with each passing year of enrolement in UCD.

Large scale drunkeness,urinating at or on the bus,abusing other passengers and the destruction of as much associated infrastructure as can be achieved in a night appears to be the central goal.

Once the freshmen appreciate that they can impose their savagery on everybody else with impunity then the disease's progression into 2nd and subsequent years is trouble free.

I,and most of my colleagues have the utmost regard for those unfortunates who have to work with these cretins or attempt to use the college for it's legitimate purpose,however such is the TOTAL lack of interest from Gardai,College Authorities or any other official body that it's down to the Busdrivers to actually address the systemic failures of the rest.

I know several staff who managed in previous years to walk either up to the preceeding stop or to the following stop,only to find particularly in 2011 that the more devious deviants had decided to do the same,a tactic which was rapidly noted and countered by the Drivers.

This year (2012) brings the VERY bad news that Donnybrook Garda Station is now reduced to an office hours only routine,from 0700 to 1900.

For Busdrivers,pulling up outside Donnybrook Garda Station was often the ONLY way of getting rid of this infected species with any degree of certainty and safety.

With the Garda Station now removed as a meaningful safety measure then I predict a rapid worsening of the situation this year.

If Stop or anybody else really wants to ensure their public transport links remain usable for all,then they really DO need to get active on this with as many representatives and authorities as they can.

UCD themselves could do more than merely repeat,as they have done ad nauseum,that they have no responsibility for the behaviour of Students once they are off College Property.

It seems as if,in a clear representation of what Ireland is like outside of Academia,everybody knows there's a problem,it's nobody's fault,nobody's responsibility and,for sure,there'll be no repercussions for any of the resultant damage caused.

On an associated point,as somebody who also services DCU in Ballymun I am constantly perplexed at why it's Student Body are nowhere near as problematic.....a mystery indeed ?

markpb

AlekSmart wrote: »

On an associated point,as somebody who also services DCU in Ballymun I am constantly perplexed at why it's Student Body are nowhere near as problematic.....a mystery indeed ?

No arts students?

Murray007

I have recently moved to the west side of the square. Dublin Buses are a problem there.

From 9pm to 11pm a series of buses stop on the square, engines running for anything from 10-40mins. This is a residential area, many young families live in the square and the noise is awful.

This morning their was a beautiful blue sky over the square and the square was looking fab. Even the litter seemed to be thin on the ground. However, there were five Dublin Buses parked on the north side of the square taking away the beauty of the area.

Mountjoy square was almost destroyed with poor planning decisions in the 80/90s and it is now going through a renaissance but Dublin Buses are a real problem.

LXFlyer

Murray007 wrote: »

I have recently moved to the west side of the square. Dublin Buses are a problem there.

From 9pm to 11pm a series of buses stop on the square, engines running for anything from 10-40mins. This is a residential area, many young families live in the square and the noise is awful.

This morning their was a beautiful blue sky over the square and the square was looking fab. Even the litter seemed to be thin on the ground. However, there were five Dublin Buses parked on the north side of the square taking away the beauty of the area.

Mountjoy square was almost destroyed with poor planning decisions in the 80/90s and it is now going through a renaissance but Dublin Buses are a real problem.

Funnily enough bus termini have to be located somewhere, they cannot magically vanish into thin air.

Presumably you made yourself aware that the square was a bus terminus beforehand?

Dublin Bus vehicles should not have their engines running if they are parked at the terminus except when they are about to depart. If they are, then get in touch with them, as drivers are supposed to turn the engines off whilst parked.

Murray007

I don't understand what you mean.

There is no bus terminal in Mountjoy square west. Buses stopping randomly with engines left running on the square is purely a misuse of the square for the convenience of Dublin Bus.

LXFlyer

Murray007 wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean.

There is no bus terminal in Mountjoy square west. Buses stopping randomly with engines left running on the square is purely a misuse of the square for the convenience of Dublin Bus.

Routes 7, 7b, 7d, 8 and 46e terminate at Mountjoy Square.


As I said above, if buses are parked with their engines running, then contact Dublin Bus directly, as drivers are supposed to switch them off whilst parked.

coylemj

Murray007 wrote: »

I have recently moved to the west side of the square. Dublin Buses are a problem there.

The west side of Mountjoy Sq. is effectively part of Gardner St., you had no reasonable expectation of a quiet life with lots of traffic passing outside 24 x 7 and that fact is probably reflected in the rent you are paying.

Murray007

The traffic is fine, it is not an issue after 9pm at night. I have lived in the city centre for a long time.

Its the constant hum of buses that shouldn't be sitting there with the engines on that bother me.

I have sent an email to Dublin Bus.

coylemj

Murray007 wrote: »

The traffic is fine, it is not an issue after 9pm at night. I have lived in the city centre for a long time.

Its the constant hum of buses that shouldn't be sitting there with the engines on that bother me.

I have sent an email to Dublin Bus.

I used to work an early shift near a DB garage and when the drivers started the buses from cold each morning, they used to rev the crap out of the engine to get the hydraulic pressure up to operating levels for the brakes. It may be that those drivers that are bothering you are leaving the engine running as an alternative to switching the engine off while waiting and then having to rev it up when they start it up again. Or they may be leaving the engine running to keep their cockles warm!

Just saying - though I am aware that it's official policy for the drivers to switch off the engine while parked.

Murray007

coylemj wrote: »

I used to work an early shift near a DB garage and when the drivers started the buses from cold each morning, they used to rev the crap out of the engine to get the hydraulic pressure up to operating levels for the brakes. It may be that those drivers that are bothering you are leaving the engine running as an alternative to switching the engine off while waiting and then having to rev it up when they start it up again. Or they may be leaving the engine running to keep their cockles warm!

Just saying - though I am aware that it's official policy for the drivers to switch off the engine while parked.

I am sure you are right - it must be something like that.

Mountjoy Mugger

There's a large sign outside the Summerhill garage accessed from Mountjoy Square East, asking drivers to shut their engines down when idling. For the most part, this is ignored; it's especially noticeable after 11.00pm when trying to set some sleep.

I have emailed DB on several occasions on this matter with the result that I am now ignored.

Murray007

That's so correct, it's OK when the TV is on but when you are in bed trying to get to sleep there is no noise more irritating.

I would suggest joining forces in our complaints to Dublin Bus but your user name has put me off that idea :-)

dfx-

I thought no DB buses use Mountjoy Square after 8pm...all 7s park up on Parnell Square because of "anti-social behaviour".

There will be 41s and 33s on the West side and buses returning to Summerhill from across the city to sleep for the night, but they won't be revving engines...

Mountjoy Mugger

They won't necessarily be revving engines, but we have the constant drone of their engines running while they are queuing up to get into the garage.

It's one thing having them rev up the engines @5.30 am - 6.00 am without them dulling your senses at 12.00 am and later.

LXFlyer

Presumably you looked around the area before moving in, and were aware of the presence of the bus depot beforehand?

There is inevitably going to be noise associated with a bus depot.

Murray007

dfx- wrote: »

I thought no DB buses use Mountjoy Square after 8pm...all 7s park up on Parnell Square because of "anti-social behaviour".

There will be 41s and 33s on the West side and buses returning to Summerhill from across the city to sleep for the night, but they won't be revving engines...

They don't reve the engines, they sit with the engine switched on.

There are buses parked on the North side of the square on a regular basis first thing in the morning.

Murray007

lxflyer wrote: »

Presumably you looked around the area before moving in, and were aware of the presence of the bus depot beforehand?

There is inevitably going to be noise associated with a bus depot.

There is no bus depot on the west side of the square. Bus drivers sitting in buses with the engines on at the west end of the square has nothing to do with the bus depot!

LXFlyer

Murray007 wrote: »

They don't reve the engines, they sit with the engine switched on.

There are buses parked on the North side of the square on a regular basis first thing in the morning.

That's because it is a bus terminus.

LXFlyer

Murray007 wrote: »

There is no bus depot on the west side of the square. Bus drivers sitting in buses with the engines on at the west end of the square has nothing to do with the bus depot!

My comment was aimed at the other poster in post #35 who was referring to the buses coming in and out of the depot.

Conway635

lxflyer wrote: »

My comment was aimed at the other poster in post #35 who was referring to the buses coming in and out of the depot.

As Summerhill has been in use as a motor bus depot since the early 1930s, that poster must have moved in a very long time ago, or else was singularly unobervant when purchasing their home.

C635

Murray007

Conway635 wrote: »

As Summerhill has been in use as a motor bus depot since the early 1930s, that poster must have moved in a very long time ago, or else was singularly unobervant when purchasing their home.

C635

In fairness to the other poster, the issue is less the bus terminal but rather engines being left running which is not suppose to happen.

Email back from Dublin Bus:

Dear Murray007,

Thank you for your letter regarding our drivers leaving the enginerunning on their bus in Mount Joy Square in the evenings.

Dublin Bus has a strict policy against leaving an engine running whilst thedriver is out of the cab.

Your complaint has been logged and the details have been forwarded to theOperations Manager who is responsible for this route.

I would like to assure you that Dublin Bus takes these complaints veryseriously and the safety of our passengers as well as other road users is a toppriority for us. We would like to thank you for taking the time to bring thisissue to our attention. On behalf of Dublin Bus please accept my apologies.


Regards,

I replied:


HiDublin Bus


What is your policy when the driver is in the cab andengine running, which is generally what is happening in Mountjoy Sq west

No reply as yet.

dfx-

Murray007 wrote: »

There is no bus depot on the west side of the square. Bus drivers sitting in buses with the engines on at the west end of the square has nothing to do with the bus depot!

What DB buses are sitting on the west side of the square? The 7 terminus is on the north side of the square isn't it.

Murray007

dfx- wrote: »

What DB buses are sitting on the west side of the square? The 7 terminus is on the north side of the square isn't it.

Thats right, the teminal is the north side. There should be no buses waiting/sitting with engines running on at the west side.

They must be out of service, but they are there after the last 41, 41C scheduled stops ends. They sit around for a while 10-20 minutes and then move on, then another one rolls up and does the same.

cdebru

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

There's a large sign outside the Summerhill garage accessed from Mountjoy Square East, asking drivers to shut their engines down when idling. For the most part, this is ignored; it's especially noticeable after 11.00pm when trying to set some sleep.

I have emailed DB on several occasions on this matter with the result that I am now ignored.

All DB buses are fitted with a idle shut down, the engine is turned off after 5 mins of idling, you see it sometimes in heavy traffic bus cuts out.

cdebru

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

They won't necessarily be revving engines, but we have the constant drone of their engines running while they are queuing up to get into the garage.

It's one thing having them rev up the engines @5.30 am - 6.00 am without them dulling your senses at 12.00 am and later.

You can't rev the engine on a bus anymore, if the bus is in neutral they have a limit to stop them being revved. As for the general engine noise as they return to the depot it is extremely difficult to get them back to the depot or move them anywhere without using the engine.


Ireland makes me laugh sometimes, if it is not people who bought a property beside the large football stadium complaining about the crowds it is the people who bought a house near the airport complaining about the aeroplanes and then it is the people who bought a house beside a Bus depot complaining about buses.

Fair enough if it wasn't there when you bought it but I doubt there is anyone living around mountjoy square who bought before it was a bus depot.

Murray007

cdebru wrote: »

All DB buses are fitted with a idle shut down, the engine is turned off after 5 mins of idling, you see it sometimes in heavy traffic bus cuts out.

If that is true, it can be easily overcome by accelerating after every four minutes.

Murray007

cdebru wrote: »

You can't rev the engine on a bus anymore, if the bus is in neutral they have a limit to stop them being revved. As for the general engine noise as they return to the depot it is extremely difficult to get them back to the depot or move them anywhere without using the engine.


Ireland makes me laugh sometimes, if it is not people who bought a property beside the large football stadium complaining about the crowds it is the people who bought a house near the airport complaining about the aeroplanes and then it is the people who bought a house beside a Bus depot complaining about buses.

Fair enough if it wasn't there when you bought it but I doubt there is anyone living around mountjoy square who bought before it was a bus depot.

For the umpteenth time, it is not revving it is sitting with the engine on.

Dublin Bus say that this is strictly not allowed, it doesn't make commercial sense for Dublin Bus to condone this happening, however it happens.

I accept the hustle and bustle of living in a City centre location, I don't accept something that is negatively impacting my life that shouldn't be happening.

cdebru

Murray007 wrote: »

Thats right, the teminal is the north side. There should be no buses waiting/sitting with engines running on at the west side.

They must be out of service, but they are there after the last 41, 41C scheduled stops ends. They sit around for a while 10-20 minutes and then move on, then another one rolls up and does the same.

Sitting on the west ? At night after last bus ? Sure you don't mean on the east ? They can be queued up at night trying to get into the depot but that wouldn't be around on the west, is it every night or weekends.

All DB buses are fitted with an idle switch off, it is difficult to keep them running for longer than 5 minutes unless you are really watching it, and keep tapping the accelerator to stop it cutting out but you would have to be really committed to keeping it running to do that. You generally don't see buses with engines running at termini anymore because if you let them idle cut out they are a pain in the arse to restart so its better to just knock it off before it idles cuts out. Years ago it was common to keep them running one for the warmth and two because they couldn't always be relied on to start when needed so they were left running but not anymore.

cdebru

Murray007 wrote: »

If that is true, it can be easily overcome by accelerating after every four minutes.

Like I said you would have to be really committed to keeping it running, haven't ever seen anyone do it because who could be arsed doing that.

Murray007

cdebru wrote: »

Sitting on the west ? At night after last bus ? Sure you don't mean on the east ? They can be queued up at night trying to get into the depot but that wouldn't be around on the west, is it every night or weekends.

All DB buses are fitted with an idle switch off, it is difficult to keep them running for longer than 5 minutes unless you are really watching it, and keep tapping the accelerator to stop it cutting out but you would have to be really committed to keeping it running to do that. You generally don't see buses with engines running at termini anymore because if you let them idle cut out they are a pain in the arse to restart so its better to just knock it off before it idles cuts out. Years ago it was common to keep them running one for the warmth and two because they couldn't always be relied on to start when needed so they were left running but not anymore.

I am sure it's the west side, I live there.