Texting & Talking While Driving a Bus

foggy_lad

Should Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and Irish Rail drivers be prohibited from having a mobile phone in their possession while driving?

I have on a few occasions had to make official complaints about drivers who have been chatting away on their phones but the latest incidents involved one Bus Eireann driver talking untill the call got disconnected and then he carried on texting the other party while driving at night along country roads, while the other incident saw a Dublin Bus driver chatting away aimlessly on his handsfree on the 39a while seemingly oblivious to his surroundings who then went on to overcharge someone and refuse to sort it out.

To me these activities are illegal(even the handsfree can lead to driving without due care and attention) and also involve people carrying on private business in their employers time! These drivers are being paid taxpayers money to have long conversations with whoever when their attention should be on their driving!

Should mobile devices including those with handsfree be banned from all public service drivers to improve safety and driver concentration?

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

Should mobile devices including those with handsfree be banned from all public service drivers to improve safety and driver concentration?

Yes. Until your bus breaks down in the arse end of Carlow and you whinge that the driver couldn't contact Control or [insert name of entity here].

What should be done is a more rigorous implementation of existing legislation which deals with the use of such devices by _all_ drivers : that includes sales reps, bus drivers, white van drivers, yummy mummies.

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

parsi wrote: »

Yes. Until your bus breaks down in the arse end of Carlow and you whinge that the driver couldn't contact Control or [insert name of entity here].

What should be done is a more rigorous implementation of existing legislation which deals with the use of such devices by _all_ drivers : that includes sales reps, bus drivers, white van drivers, yummy mummies.

There are plenty of drivers who carry their phone turned off in their bag for real emergiencies! There are also plenty of passengers with mobile phones who would gladly let the driver use their phone in an emergency. What is needed imho is stricter punishments for drivers of public service vehicles including taxis using their phones while driving.

Stricter enforcement of existing laws is necessary but my suggestion was more aimed at companies like Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus banning their drivers from carrying mobile phones whilein charge of any work vehicle.

AlekSmart

parsi wrote: »

Yes. Until your bus breaks down in the arse end of Carlow and you whinge that the driver couldn't contact Control or [insert name of entity here].

What should be done is a more rigorous implementation of existing legislation which deals with the use of such devices by _all_ drivers : that includes sales reps, bus drivers, white van drivers, yummy mummies.

Now now Parsi,Foggy_Lad has been quiet of late and it`s good to know the we can once again rest easy in our beds knowing that Foggy`s about

However to address Foggy`s initial question,NO the drivers in question should not specifically be prevented from having a mobile phone in their possession whilst driving.(However that course of action WAS being considered by some of the UK`s larger operators but is currently delayed pending clarification on legal matters)

Using it whilst driving is another question entirely,and as Parsi very elequently points out is already well covered by the general Road Traffic Laws.

However,if only to put the Foggy mind at ease,use of a mobile device whilst driving IS a disciplinary offence under Dublin Buses company policy and yes,drivers have recieved sanctions for it.

As for the remainder of Foggy_Lads observations,yep get them all down on paper and submit them as a formal complaint.

There is nothing like a keen all-encompassing observational mind to wile away the long hours on our Public Transport Commutes

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

Can you clarify please if using a phone with handsfree is allowed for DB drivers or if use of any mobile phone while driving is against their rules?

cbl593h

Aircoach would fall into this category...........

http://www.firstgroup.com/corporate/latest_news/?id=000075

Gross misconduct offence on the First rail and bus franchises. DB should follow suit.

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

...Irish Rail drivers.....

It's been prohibited for years for train drivers or indeed anyone travelling in the driving cab of a train to be in possesion of a switched on mobile by IE's rules. It is permissable to have one on your person for emergencies but otherwise it must remain stowed away and switched off.

I know of about 3 or 4 seperate people who have been disiplined for breaking these rules in the past few years.

AlekSmart

Foggy_Lad: Can you clarify please if using a phone with handsfree is allowed for DB drivers or if use of any mobile phone while driving is against their rules?
__________________

Absolutely,use of the item with or without handsfree devices is covered by the disciplinary code.

As Mickeydoomsux advises re Irish Rail,similar outcomes have pertained within Dublin bus,however that probably serves to take a bit of wind out of the good ship Foggy`s sails

AlekSmart

cbl593h wrote: »

Aircoach would fall into this category...........

http://www.firstgroup.com/corporate/latest_news/?id=000075

Gross misconduct offence on the First rail and bus franchises. DB should follow suit.

Dublin Bus followed or perhaps even led suit long ago.

The offence specified by cbl593h would indeed fall under the "Gross Misconduct" heading and is treated that way.

However it needs to be recognized that companies such as First Group and Dublin Bus although ostensibly dissimilar,are in reality now all singing from the same Hymn-Sheet in relation to matters disciplinary,as the Handbook has largely been formed by recourse to Employment Tribunals and the Law Courts.

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Absolutely,use of the item with or without handsfree devices is covered by the disciplinary code.

As Mickeydoomsux advises re Irish Rail,similar outcomes have pertained within Dublin bus,however that probably serves to take a bit of wind out of the good ship Foggy`s sails

Not at all. I can rest easy in my bus, coach or train seat knowing that there are rules covering this and all I need do on witnessing any driver on their phone while driving is make a complaint giving as much clear information(leaving any dramatics aside) as I can and any necessary action will be taken by the respective comany.


How many people would actually report a driver for using their mobile phone to make a call or to text while driving though?

mikemac

They might have good reason to make a 20minute call or send a few dozen texts

I saw the thread title on the main page, thought I bet that's Foggy_lad, clicked in and so it was.

Sorry, just an observation
Reading through it now

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

Not at all. I can rest easy in my bus, coach or train seat knowing that there are rules covering this and all I need do on witnessing any driver on their phone while driving is make a complaint giving as much clear information(leaving any dramatics aside) as I can and any necessary action will be taken by the respective comany.

Now we`re sucking diesel,mind you Foggy_Lad I`m unsure that the notion of yourself "resting-easy" on any public-transport journey is one that can be entertained by Boards regulars as the price of freedom is indeed Eternal Vigilance !!.

Yes indeed,a cool calm,factual report in the most effective manner to the relevant authority is yer only man

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Now we`re sucking diesel,mind you Foggy_Lad I`m unsure that the notion of yourself "resting-easy" on any public-transport journey is one that can be entertained by Boards regulars as the price of freedom is indeed Eternal Vigilance !!.

Yes indeed,a cool calm,factual report in the most effective manner to the relevant authority is yer only man

I do try to understand what makes professional drivers put their passengers and themselves at risk as well as jepordising their carreers by using a mobie phone for long calls or sending reams of texts when they obviously know it is not only illegal but also against their companies rules and may incur penalty points and a fine or even dismissal.

I also think more needs to be done to stamp out the use of mobiles by truck divers and taxi drivers as well as ordinary car drivers.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

I do try to understand what makes professional drivers put their passengers and themselves at risk as well as jepordising their carreers by using a mobie phone for long calls or sending reams of texts when they obviously know it is not only illegal but also against their companies rules and may incur penalty points and a fine or even dismissal.

I also think more needs to be done to stamp out the use of mobiles by truck divers and taxi drivers as well as ordinary car drivers.

Foggy_Lad,don`t be wasting your valuable life "trying to understand" so many actions and reactions of other individuals.

Unless you`re a time served phsychiatrist or a certified lunatic you`ll simply waste away into a gibbering wreck.

Personally my own theory revolves around the modern contention that Life can be lived in a totally risk-free manner by virtue of adherence to various Health & Safety policies devised to head off all manner of Risky things at the pass.....as a result we (specifically the Irish and UK here) now appear incapable of wiping our own backsides without resorting to angst ridden introspection !

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Foggy_Lad,don`t be wasting your valuable life "trying to understand" so many actions and reactions of other individuals.

Unless you`re a time served phsychiatrist or a certified lunatic you`ll simply waste away into a gibbering wreck.

Personally my own theory revolves around the modern contention that Life can be lived in a totally risk-free manner by virtue of adherence to various Health & Safety policies devised to head off all manner of Risky things at the pass.....as a result we (specifically the Irish and UK here) now appear incapable of wiping our own backsides without resorting to angst ridden introspection !

But a lot of that Health & Safety stuff is just bureaucratic b0llix,thought up to give civil servants forms to fill out.

There will always be risks but they can be minimised by taking appropriate action against those caught speedingor drink driving or using mobiles while driving.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

But a lot of that Health & Safety stuff is just bureaucratic b0llix,thought up to give civil servants forms to fill out.

There will always be risks but they can be minimised by taking appropriate action against those caught speedingor drink driving or using mobiles while driving.

A big plus one to the Bureaucratic B0llicks bit Foggy,for sure.

However,I think real Risk miniminization can only come from ensuring people are commonsensical and confident enough to live their lives in harmony with one another !

dowlingm

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

Should Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and Irish Rail drivers be prohibited from having a mobile phone in their possession while driving?

I doubt they have an exemption from the law which forbids exactly that (at least on the road anyway - presumably there's a similar rail reg)

The question is - whether any penalty other than dismissal in additional to the existing legal sanctions are appropriate. Those who died on the California Metrolink and were injured on the Boston trolley would probably err on the harsh side.

As for being able to contact central control - a system where drivers can call control from a dashboard button linked to an embedded GSM chip should be all that is required. GSM-R is going to be rolled out on DART I believe, I saw a tender a while back for it.

Cookie_Monster

While your at it, make such you add smoking in a workplace to the list Foggy. :)That's gotten pretty bad recently (mainly taxis and trucks) though I've seen it to a lesser extent on DB.

chasm

I was on a Bus Eireann bus yesterday, and the driver was having a conversation on his phone, (using a handfree kit) from just outside Sligo town to nearly the whole way to castlebaldwin. I felt he wasnt paying much attention to the road at all, he seemed to be speeding on a good few occasions and driving extremely close to vehicles in front. I must say i found the journey rather a scary experience (and ive travelled a lot on buses over the years!).

The worst part was that 5 or 6 times on the journey the driver took out a copy of the timetable and was reading it while driving. I was in the first seat (on the door side) and looked in the mirror up by the door while he was reading the timetable and his eyes were off the road for a good 7-10 seconds at a time.
As i said, i have used buses a lot over the years but i have never in all those years felt so relieved to get off a bus in my life!

I was only saying to someone the other day that i don't understand why it has become acceptable to use mobile phones in work these days- for work related calls yes but personal calls should be left till your own time i think, just my 2c worth.

dowlingm

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

I keep saying this but videoing the offence makes things happen, strongly worded complaints don't.

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

dowlingm wrote: »

I keep saying this but videoing the offence makes things happen, strongly worded complaints don't.

Possibly, but in mid journey being seen to be making a video of the drivers crime might be more hazardous then the drivers illegal and unsafe use of the mobile device. i will stick to the report to the appropriate company even though they refuse to answer or even acknowledge my complaints.

I also have no desire to see any drivers sacked or their career in bits due to some pointless media campaign, let the copmpanie's disciplinary action run its course and let that be an end to it.

meanmachine3

foggy_lad wrote: »

Should Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and Irish Rail drivers be prohibited from having a mobile phone in their possession while driving?

I have on a few occasions had to make official complaints about drivers who have been chatting away on their phones but the latest incidents involved one Bus Eireann driver talking untill the call got disconnected and then he carried on texting the other party while driving at night along country roads, while the other incident saw a Dublin Bus driver chatting away aimlessly on his handsfree on the 39a while seemingly oblivious to his surroundings who then went on to overcharge someone and refuse to sort it out.

To me these activities are illegal(even the handsfree can lead to driving without due care and attention) and also involve people carrying on private business in their employers time! These drivers are being paid taxpayers money to have long conversations with whoever when their attention should be on their driving!

Should mobile devices including those with handsfree be banned from all public service drivers to improve safety and driver concentration?

while i dont agree that Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and Irish Rail drivers be prohibited from having a mobile phone in their possession while driving ,i do agree that the law needs to be alot stricter. but then in saying that the law regarding the use of mobile phones is there for everyone and as you know when it comes to laws in this country theres a real lack of enforcement. on numerous occasions i have encountered hundreds of people using mobiles on an average run i would encounter about 1 in 5 drivers using mobiles. but the ones that sicken me the most are women using mobiles with kids in the front seat of their vehicles and believe it or not this is alot more common than one would think.
but getting back to foggys point. dublin bus take a zero tollerence approach to this sort of thing as alek has already pointed out, so much so that D.B. inspectors have been known to stand at certain areas within the city centre and do D.B. drivers for using mobiles or having an ear piece. like other people out there we do have families believe it or not and in some cases we may need that mobile just in case of emergencies.we can use mobiles provided and only provided that bus is pulled into a safe place , the same rule would apply to any other road user.
now heres an article worth reading.
http://legal-island.ie/news/item/79/coach-driver-dismissed-for-texting-while-driving/

Iwannahurl

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

This is why you mustn't text while driving a bus.

AlekSmart

Iwannahurl wrote: »

This is why you mustn't text while driving.

Just as accurate...;)

snickerpuss

They should clearly be banned from using mobiles while driving but I don't see any reason why they should be banned from possessing one. Say you're driving a train and you're going to be 1 or 2 hours in another station before heading back on your next train. Why should you not be allowed to have your phone on you to use in the station on your break?

Irish Rail drivers are definitely banned from having them on while driving, as they should be.

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

Ok so let them keep their phones in a bag or jacket on the bus and keep them turned off but we all know this will not last long before they are answering calls and texting as if they were at home.

More legislation is not the answer but more prosecuting and enforcement might just make it a risk not worth taking.

meanmachine3

the point here is what exactly is foggy looking for. is he looking for us to be banned from having mobile. (a)when we report for our duty all mobiles are confiscated or (b) is he asking the we be banned from using them whilst driving.
is the case of (a) not on your nelly. there is no traffic law from anyone having a mobile on their possession. most of at some stage receive that all to important phone call whether it be good news or bad. in the case of (b) the law is already there. i carry mine but i have never used it whilst driving a bus and and never will. now in saying that on at least one ocassion i have had to take an important call,but that was done safely and while i was pulled in at the side of the road.
if anything ( getting slightly off the point) the rule of passengers using a portable apparatus whilest on a bus should be enforced also.
"No person while on the vehicle shall sing, perform on any musical or other instruments or use any audible radio, television, record player, tape recorder or portable apparatus."

liger

They might have good reason to make a 20minute call or send a few dozen texts

meanmachine3 wrote: »

.
"No person while on the vehicle shall sing, perform on any musical or other instruments or use any audible radio, television, record player, tape recorder or portable apparatus."

Going back about 2 years ago one sunday morning I was driving down the road when a bus was coming the other direction. An AV, Wedged in the gap between the steering colum and the dash was a portible DVD player. I joke not. Driver was doing the driving by holding the steering wheel with his forearms leaning forward and eyes down to the screen. Never forget seeing that.

Cookie_Monster

The phone issue has been growing steadily worse (across all drivers) over the last few years. The fact that there is near zero enforcement means people feel confident they won't be caught. In my hour and 15 mins cycle this evening around the backroads in Dublin/Wicklow hills I came across 4 people driving while on the phone and only one person pulled in to take a call :rolleyes: Its the same any other day, its rampant.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

Ok so let them keep their phones in a bag or jacket on the bus and keep them turned off but we all know this will not last long before they are answering calls and texting as if they were at home.

More legislation is not the answer but more prosecuting and enforcement might just make it a risk not worth taking.

Yes indeed Foggy,we all know.....:o

liger

They might have good reason to make a 20minute call or send a few dozen texts

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The fact that there is near zero enforcement means people feel confident they won't be caught.

This may be true for Garda enforcement but if you talk to any DB driver they will know of a couple of their colleagues that have been caught and given warnings for using phone while driving.

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

Possibly, but in mid journey being seen to be making a video of the drivers crime might be more hazardous then the drivers illegal and unsafe use of the mobile device. i will stick to the report to the appropriate company even though they refuse to answer or even acknowledge my complaints.

I also have no desire to see any drivers sacked or their career in bits due to some pointless media campaign, let the copmpanie's disciplinary action run its course and let that be an end to it.

So.

You want drivers banned from having phones,
You want them not to use them,
You don't want to take practical steps to report & prove these egregious breaches,
You don't want drivers careers to be in bits.

Seems to be a few contradictions in there.

Cookie_Monster

liger wrote: »

This may be true for Garda enforcement but if you talk to any DB driver they will know of a couple of their colleagues that have been caught and given warnings for using phone while driving.

I'm sure they have and they would also be far more open to being reported by any one of the large volume of people they deal with daily. In fairness to DB drivers I can only think of one incident ever where I've seen a driver with a phone and that was texting, car/van/truck drivers are much worse for it as they don't have to deal with people.

I can understand the reasons to a certain extent, I even check text messages sometimes and used to answer the phone, but now I've a built in phone system, which is great

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

parsi wrote: »

So.

You want drivers banned from having phones,
You want them not to use them,
You don't want to take practical steps to report & prove these egregious breaches,
You don't want drivers careers to be in bits.

Seems to be a few contradictions in there.

I would be happy with all transport companies banning any driver from making or recieving calls whilst driving, and being caught should result in instant dismissal as this is the only real dis-incentive it seems, as currently most drivers especially professional drivers seem not to care about this important issue.

parsi

So make up you're mind - do you want them sacked or not ?

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

parsi wrote: »

So make up you're mind - do you want them sacked or not ?

Have you read my post above yours? Seems straightforward enough to me and answers your question.

parsi

Nah - the one I quoted in Post #32 is at odds with that post.

As an aside I was behind a slow moving Golf today. it was anxious to pull away from the lights when they were red but somewhat slower when they turned green. It indicated it was pulling into a grage but went straight. It was slow going up to and pulling off from the next lights. It then swerved into a right turn lane at the last minute and was stopped. Coming beside I could see that yer wan was busy texting and this explained the whole erraticness of her driving. Her fellow drivers had to blow their horns to get her to move when the filter came on.

My point - we need better enforcement of the law as it affects all drivers. There is sufficient legislation there (we don't need anymore specific laws pointing at specific sub-groups) but not a whole lot of enforcement.

Mycroft H

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

I remember i saw a driver on a late evening empty 84 having a good read of a novel will cruising down the N11

Tbh there should be interior cameras to sanction things like this.

AlekSmart

landyman wrote: »

I remember i saw a driver on a late evening empty 84 having a good read of a novel will cruising down the N11

Tbh there should be interior cameras to sanction things like this.

I call foul on this one.......!

Everybody,as Foggy himself might say,knows that there are NO empty 84`s ....especially after Network Direct improved the route....:)

dowlingm

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

Crossword-solving C-Train driver dismissed - Calgary Herald

AlekSmart

I remember a journey on the Circumvesuviano in Naples (A very similar train journey to the DART) back in the early 1980`s.

We boarded at a small station called,AFAIR,Vico Equense for the trip into Naples.

The train was jammed full of excitable loud Italian humanity,but the highlight of the trip was and remains the open access arrangement in the drivers cab.

The driver was sitting with some 4 colleagues and a broadsheet newspaper opened on the Football page and a loud exchange of views continued throughout the journey with regular contributions from the passengers as well.

Some of these entailed members of the travelling public fighting their way up to the cab and gesticulating wildly into the drivers face as we sped along through the tunnels of the region....

Worse still,we reached Naples,saw it and did`nt die,before returning on a far less crowded train that evening,with this driver safely isolated from his public,although he may well have been reading the Bible,for all we could see of him.

Life`s a funny ol business really ain`t it ??? :P

Cool_CM

AlekSmart wrote: »

I remember a journey on the Circumvesuviano in Naples (A very similar train journey to the DART) back in the early 1980`s.

We boarded at a small station called,AFAIR,Vico Equense for the trip into Naples.

The train was jammed full of excitable loud Italian humanity,but the highlight of the trip was and remains the open access arrangement in the drivers cab.

The driver was sitting with some 4 colleagues and a broadsheet newspaper opened on the Football page and a loud exchange of views continued throughout the journey with regular contributions from the passengers as well.

Some of these entailed members of the travelling public fighting their way up to the cab and gesticulating wildly into the drivers face as we sped along through the tunnels of the region....

Worse still,we reached Naples,saw it and did`nt die,before returning on a far less crowded train that evening,with this driver safely isolated from his public,although he may well have been reading the Bible,for all we could see of him.

Life`s a funny ol business really ain`t it ??? :P

My only experience of this also comes from Italy. Was on the shuttlebus from Bologna Centrale to the airport back in September. I was standing up the front next to the driver and was able to see him texting for more or less the whole journey. This involved negotiating slip roads and roundabouts without even looking up from his phone. Was a scary experience to say the least.

Going Forward

The offence is holding a mobile phone, so texting is definitely out, also drivers are often to be seen eating sandwich rolls drinking coffee and applying make up.

And thats only the guys!:D

Often see open laptops on dashboards as well. A lot of co workers seem to approach the whole thing with great bravado, all well and good until something happens.

Also 2 way radios, (CBs) which are handheld are not illegal??

reggaeman

Bus Eireann Driver.

We got a letter from Managment telling us under no circumstances are we even to use a head set while driving the bus. If we need to make a call we must stop the bus in a safe place and then make the call.

AlekSmart

reggaeman wrote: »

Bus Eireann Driver.

We got a letter from Managment telling us under no circumstances are we even to use a head set while driving the bus. If we need to make a call we must stop the bus in a safe place and then make the call.

It`s worth pointing out that the above has been CIE group policy on it`s Road Passenger services for some years now and is covered under the Disciplinary and Grievance programmes of both DB and BE.

foggy_lad

NO WAY! i'm no rat.

reggaeman wrote: »

Bus Eireann Driver.

We got a letter from Managment telling us under no circumstances are we even to use a head set while driving the bus. If we need to make a call we must stop the bus in a safe place and then make the call.

It is a good thing that the CIE Group of companies has this policy but i can't help thinking that an official instruction rather than a mere note was warrented for such a serious issue.

chasm

chasm wrote: »

I was on a Bus Eireann bus yesterday, and the driver was having a conversation on his phone, (using a handfree kit) from just outside Sligo town to nearly the whole way to castlebaldwin. I felt he wasnt paying much attention to the road at all, he seemed to be speeding on a good few occasions and driving extremely close to vehicles in front. I must say i found the journey rather a scary experience (and ive travelled a lot on buses over the years!).

The worst part was that 5 or 6 times on the journey the driver took out a copy of the timetable and was reading it while driving. I was in the first seat (on the door side) and looked in the mirror up by the door while he was reading the timetable and his eyes were off the road for a good 7-10 seconds at a time.
As i said, i have used buses a lot over the years but i have never in all those years felt so relieved to get off a bus in my life!

I was only saying to someone the other day that i don't understand why it has become acceptable to use mobile phones in work these days- for work related calls yes but personal calls should be left till your own time i think, just my 2c worth.

reggaeman wrote: »

Bus Eireann Driver.

We got a letter from Managment telling us under no circumstances are we even to use a head set while driving the bus. If we need to make a call we must stop the bus in a safe place and then make the call.

That's handy to know for future reference, because i think i will speak up should it happen again. Thanks;)

Azureus

I've seen this happen so much on Dublin Bus recently and it bugs the hell out of me. Bad enough is the chatting away to people while driving, but that I can ignore, or the paper propped up on the dashboard to read while in traffic / lights / whenever they seem to see fit. But lately every bus I seem to get on has someone nattering away while driving.

Just yesterday I got onto the bus and the driver was on his mobile talking to a friend or somebody obviously not work related. Barey glanced up at me and kept chatting while I paid for my fare, which I thought was really rude, but we were at the terminus so fair enough. Then sets off and is loudly talking and laughing about a piss up they were on at some stage, for the whole journey. Unprofessuonal is one thing, but its also so damn dangerous.

To be honest I didnt think about reporting it before though, this thread has made me think that I definately should.