The Ireland that We Dreamed Of...

deise go deo

The ideal Ireland that we would have, the Ireland that we dreamed of, would be the home of a people who valued material wealth only as a basis for right living, of a people who, satisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things of the spirit – a land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the romping of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of happy maidens, whose firesides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age. The home, in short, of a people living the life that God desires that men should live. With the tidings that make such an Ireland possible, St. Patrick came to our ancestors fifteen hundred years ago promising happiness here no less than happiness hereafter. It was the pursuit of such an Ireland that later made our country worthy to be called the island of saints and scholars. It was the idea of such an Ireland - happy, vigorous, spiritual - that fired the imagination of our poets; that made successive generations of patriotic men give their lives to win religious and political liberty; and that will urge men in our own and future generations to die, if need be, so that these liberties may be preserved. One hundred years ago, the Young Irelanders, by holding up the vision of such an Ireland before the people, inspired and moved them spiritually as our people had hardly been moved since the Golden Age of Irish civilisation. Fifty years later, the founders of the Gaelic League similarly inspired and moved the people of their day. So, later, did the leaders of the Irish Volunteers. We of this time, if we have the will and active enthusiasm, have the opportunity to inspire and move our generation in like manner. We can do so by keeping this thought of a noble future for our country constantly before our eyes, ever seeking in action to bring that future into being, and ever remembering that it is for our nation as a whole that future must be sought.

This is the 'Comely Maidens dancing at the crossroads' Speech Made by DeV (That 'Comley maidens dancing at the crossroads' is not actually mentioned in it is just a silly little detail)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNFfDirBE6w

I wounder what he would have made of this? :pac:

4zn76tysfajdxp

the romping of sturdy children

I get the feeling that the Catholic Church took this too literally.

pvt6zh395dqbrj

Aaaah, the sweet smell of the Ireland of which we dreamed.

How I remember dreaming of this
In my nights asleep under a bridge in Garryowen
And I watched the blue hails of restitution
Rain down upon my black soul
Oh enrapture me, and dance upon the grim moonlight
For you will not take my bones
Into the night

deise go deo

Livia Thundering Windjammer wrote: »

I get the feeling that the Catholic Church took this too literally.

You could have a point there, still, Its history now, along with DeV

Jesus Wept

No thanks.

deise go deo

The-Rigger wrote: »

No thanks.

Now, I thanked you, Feel Better?

Jesus Wept

A little, thanks.

W.Shakes-Beer

I could do with a pint of Ale and a slice of freshly baked bread, sitting in a small cottage in Mayo with the Atlantic beating at the door, the red glow of the burning peat the only light in the room.

Sweet.

Or currently, sitting in the nip on the bed with a bag of Hunky Dorys with rave tunes blaring from the pub across the road.

Wibbs

deise go deo wrote: »

You could have a point there, still, Its history now, along with DeV

Thank Christ/krishna/Buddha/Vishnu/Mohammed/Zeus


DeValera was a twat. A cunning one in fairness, but a twat nonetheless. A pawn for the catholic church to try and create a catholic state, with that even bigger twat John charlie McQuaid for whom the grave didn't come quick enough for all the human damage he caused. Corrupt too. Dig not so deep and see the familial web of influence that Cuban American prick and his lackeys had. From the (internationally illegal) Irish sweepstakes to the Irish Press. Google is your friend. Like I say the grave swallowed better than him and his way too quickly and left them to cancer in the bones of this country. Unless you're an uneducated 1950's housewife in the middle of nowhere with 5 kids, bending your knee as Gaelige to the local bishop, DeValera is about as relevant as the black death and about as useful to the Irish*. He's like a boil on a jockeys bollocks. Visible, important to note and painful, but utterly unwelcome.







* the black death had its uses to be fair. Just like twats of the title of this thread.

pvt6zh395dqbrj

Ah the delightful bewitching scent of the Ireland we knew
Like when DeV fought that man over half a rood of rock
But that rood was too much for one to bear
"Sure didn't he say so himself"
Said Blarney to Marley
When the old one died, and the rooster shot the blind man
Do not fear for my freedom
Mine is the passage of time

starbelgrade

Brightness was drenching through the branches
When she wandered again,
Turning sliver out of dark grasses
Where the skylark had lain,
And her voice coming softly over the meadow
As she repeated this curious refrain,
"change my pitch up, smack my bitch up"

smokedeels

pepperidge farm remembers

deise go deo

Wibbs wrote: »

Thank Christ/krishna/Buddha/Vishnu/Mohammed/Zeus


DeValera was a twat. A cunning one in fairness, but a twat nonetheless. A pawn for the catholic church to try and create a catholic state, with that even bigger twat John charlie McQuaid for whom the grave didn't come quick enough for all the human damage he caused. Corrupt too. Dig not so deep and see the familial web of influence that Cuban American prick and his lackeys had. From the (internationally illegal) Irish sweepstakes to the Irish Press. Google is your friend. Like I say the grave swallowed better than him and his way too quickly and left them to cancer in the bones of this country. Unless you're an uneducated 1950's housewife in the middle of nowhere with 5 kids, bending your knee as Gaelige to the local bishop, DeValera is about as relevant as the black death and about as useful to the Irish*. He's like a boil on a jockeys bollocks. Visible, important to note and painful, but utterly unwelcome.







* the black death had its uses to be fair. Just like twats of the title of this thread.

Leave An Gheilge out of it. The whole point I was making is that the language that DeV idealized as part of the 'Ideal Ireland' today has a modern culture that he would have despised.

pvt6zh395dqbrj

Didn't those bastards tell you?
Was the call through all the town
When a man, went to the village
And the village was the mans own heart
This is what they said to me
For me, this was all unsaid

fonecrusher1

This is an expensive little hole of a country to live in. Just taxed my car for a year - 333 euro. Insurance is due in 2 months - 500 euro. Petrol is almost at 1.50e per litre, thats about 30 euro per week to keep a sh!tty little 1.4 car going.

Seriously up its own arse little country we live in. Sh!t roads, huge unemployment, crap weather. Yet its still quite expensive to live here?

cool story bro
fcuk off somewhere else then
build a bridge etc
various popular internet expressions & memes used as a platform to seem aggressive or witty...

Wibbs

deise go deo wrote: »

Leave An Gheilge out of it. The whole point I was making is that the language that DeV idealized as part of the 'Ideal Ireland' today has a modern culture that he would have despised.

Oh deise go deo I know you were talking about an Gaeilge by a circuitous means, just wanted to draw you out on it. You know. To make your point clear, kinda like your original post didn't.

So lets look at your individual demographic, shall we? Female/Male/under/over 30/parent/more than one child/Catholic/Protestant/Rural/urban/republican(with a small r)/don't care(unionists being thankfully thin on the ground). Delete as applicable.




In any case, I would say it's a good baseline for humanist morality to disavow pretty much anything that long prick espoused.

newmug

The ideal Ireland that we would have, the Ireland that we dreamed of, would be the home of a people who valued material wealth only as a basis for right living, of a people who, satisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things of the spirit – a land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the romping of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of happy maidens, whose firesides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age. The home, in short, of a people living the life that God desires that men should live. With the tidings that make such an Ireland possible, St. Patrick came to our ancestors fifteen hundred years ago promising happiness here no less than happiness hereafter. It was the pursuit of such an Ireland that later made our country worthy to be called the island of saints and scholars. It was the idea of such an Ireland - happy, vigorous, spiritual - that fired the imagination of our poets; that made successive generations of patriotic men give their lives to win religious and political liberty; and that will urge men in our own and future generations to die, if need be, so that these liberties may be preserved. One hundred years ago, the Young Irelanders, by holding up the vision of such an Ireland before the people, inspired and moved them spiritually as our people had hardly been moved since the Golden Age of Irish civilisation. Fifty years later, the founders of the Gaelic League similarly inspired and moved the people of their day. So, later, did the leaders of the Irish Volunteers. We of this time, if we have the will and active enthusiasm, have the opportunity to inspire and move our generation in like manner. We can do so by keeping this thought of a noble future for our country constantly before our eyes, ever seeking in action to bring that future into being, and ever remembering that it is for our nation as a whole that future must be sought.



If only...........

brianthebard

Wibbs wrote: »

Thank Christ/krishna/Buddha/Vishnu/Mohammed/Zeus


DeValera was a twat. A cunning one in fairness, but a twat nonetheless. A pawn for the catholic church to try and create a catholic state, with that even bigger twat John charlie McQuaid for whom the grave didn't come quick enough for all the human damage he caused. Corrupt too. Dig not so deep and see the familial web of influence that Cuban American prick and his lackeys had. From the (internationally illegal) Irish sweepstakes to the Irish Press. Google is your friend. Like I say the grave swallowed better than him and his way too quickly and left them to cancer in the bones of this country. Unless you're an uneducated 1950's housewife in the middle of nowhere with 5 kids, bending your knee as Gaelige to the local bishop, DeValera is about as relevant as the black death and about as useful to the Irish*. He's like a boil on a jockeys bollocks. Visible, important to note and painful, but utterly unwelcome.


* the black death had its uses to be fair. Just like twats of the title of this thread.

Honestly when it comes to Irish history and/or politics you have the least subjective, least informed, most patronising positions known to man.

Wibbs

brianthebard wrote: »

Honestly when it comes to Irish history and/or politics you have the least subjective, least informed, most patronising positions known to man.

I'll take that as a compliment. EDIT not taking the piss here BTB. Like I said in the post you quoted google and libraries are your friend. Peruse both, get back to me and then accuse me of being entirely partisan.

deise go deo

Wibbs wrote: »

In any case, I would say it's a good baseline for humanist morality to disavow pretty much anything that long prick espoused.

Your claiming not to be partisan then?:rolleyes:

Wibbs

You'll note the word "entirely". Oh I know it probably makes you feel better to think I'm some orange wee free west Brit, but further from the truth you couldn't be. DeValera was useful at times, cunning a lot of times and part of our history, but if you negate the seriously deleterious effect he had on this nation then you have head up your bum to the neck or buried in the sand to the same depth.

Wibbs

OK ye wanna get into this?

Dev and the church. Are you seriously telling us that he and mcQuaid didn't cobble together the constitution and the backbone of this state to inject the church into damn near every aspect of it? Are you insane? When did we get divorce? When did we get contraception? When did we get equal rights for homosexuals(still havent)? When did we get anything approaching pro choice(Nada there)? Hey I personally have serious issues with abortion but the fact remains we were the most catholically backward state in mainstream Europe. Hell Franco's catholic Spain was more free FFS. And that boils down a lot to the long fella.

Corruption? Look up Dev and the Irish Press. Look up the connections with teh sweepstakes. Look up dev and cronyism. You really think Haughey licked this shít from a stone? Are ye that naive?

OK then my accusers. Debate me.

Wolfe Tone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isNOQ3zQ2F0

I think Dev had some very admiral traits.

Wibbs

Oh he was a clever man and a cute hoor and no mistake. No one can take those as you say admirable qualities from him. It's to what agency he put most of them that troubles me. He had the smell of a real petulant slither too. For all the rhetoric he was fully aware of the practical help he and his government and the Irish people gave to the allied war effort. Look at how many allied airmen and seamen were interned. Then look at the number of axis servicemen interned. Compare and contrast. Look at the signs writ large on the four corners of Ireland that spelled out "Eire" with a specific number under each. Look that up. There was an awful lot of flim flam and posturing going on. We were nowhere near neutral. On Churchills side too. Well he was Sir Posture of Middle Posturing.

deise go deo

Wibbs wrote: »

OK ye wanna get into this?

Dev and the church. Are you seriously telling us that he and mcQuaid didn't cobble together the constitution and the backbone of this state to inject the church into damn near every aspect of it? Are you insane? When did we get divorce? When did we get contraception? When did we get equal rights for homosexuals(still havent)? When did we get anything approaching pro choice(Nada there)? Hey I personally have serious issues with abortion but the fact remains we were the most catholically backward state in mainstream Europe. Hell Franco's catholic Spain was more free FFS. And that boils down a lot to the long fella.

Corruption? Look up Dev and the Irish Press. Look up the connections with teh sweepstakes. Look up dev and cronyism. You really think Haughey licked this shít from a stone? Are ye that naive?

OK then my accusers. Debate me.

You seam to have the wrong end of the Stick, I have no time for FF or their well documented corruption and I am not interested in defending DeV.

Wolfe Tone

So Wibbs really doesn't like Dev then? :pac:

I remember my Granny wouldn't hear a word against him.

brianthebard

Wibbs wrote: »

I'll take that as a compliment. EDIT not taking the piss here BTB. Like I said in the post you quoted google and libraries are your friend. Peruse both, get back to me and then accuse me of being entirely partisan.

Yeah I'll get right on that after I finish my mixed English/History PhD about the modern Irish period.

newmug

Wibbs wrote: »

OK ye wanna get into this?

Dev and the church. Are you seriously telling us that he and mcQuaid didn't cobble together the constitution and the backbone of this state to inject the church into damn near every aspect of it? Are you insane? When did we get divorce? When did we get contraception? When did we get equal rights for homosexuals(still havent)? When did we get anything approaching pro choice(Nada there)? Hey I personally have serious issues with abortion but the fact remains we were the most catholically backward state in mainstream Europe. Hell Franco's catholic Spain was more free FFS. And that boils down a lot to the long fella.

Corruption? Look up Dev and the Irish Press. Look up the connections with teh sweepstakes. Look up dev and cronyism. You really think Haughey licked this shít from a stone? Are ye that naive?

OK then my accusers. Debate me.

One word. Context.

As you must know, religion was a weapon used by the brits against us. If you were Cathoilc, that was reason enough to murder you. I'm not going into a history lesson for you, but seeing as Dev and his generation were still reeling from the affects of the famine (only 50 years or so earlier, where if you turned protestant, the local prod landlord would "grant" you your life by giving you food:mad:), and were still second class citizens in their own country, religious freedom was a big deal. It still is, until the GFA was signed, Cathoilcs faced discrimination in the North. This was 1998 we're talking. You have the intelligence to understand the gravity of this, I know you do.

The whole zeit-geist of Ireland at the time was rebellion, as fervent then for Catholicism to be liberated as gay rights is now. Fair play to anyone who fought for Irish freedom, all aspects of it, including religion. The Ultra-Catholic Ireland Dev masterminded worked. It was just a knee-jerk reaction to religious bigotry in the first place, its done its job, and now religious tolerance is leveling out. So stop the Dev hatred.

ballsymchugh

Wibbs wrote: »

OK ye wanna get into this?

Dev and the church. Are you seriously telling us that he and mcQuaid didn't cobble together the constitution and the backbone of this state to inject the church into damn near every aspect of it? Are you insane? When did we get divorce? When did we get contraception? When did we get equal rights for homosexuals(still havent)? When did we get anything approaching pro choice(Nada there)? Hey I personally have serious issues with abortion but the fact remains we were the most catholically backward state in mainstream Europe. Hell Franco's catholic Spain was more free FFS. And that boils down a lot to the long fella.

Corruption? Look up Dev and the Irish Press. Look up the connections with teh sweepstakes. Look up dev and cronyism. You really think Haughey licked this shít from a stone? Are ye that naive?

OK then my accusers. Debate me.

the only thing i can say is by getting the church involved in education and health, the early days of the country were saved a fortune that they just couldn't afford. unfortunately we all know what happened afterwards.

cleremy jarkson

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dev-tricked-public-into-investing-in-irish-press-file-reveals-485691.html

Some boy Dev! He wanted people to expect nothing more than frugal living..sure it's no good being rich unless everyone else is poor... otherwise you don't get to feel like you're above other people!

Wolfe Tone

cleremy jarkson wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dev-tricked-public-into-investing-in-irish-press-file-reveals-485691.html

Some boy Dev! He wanted people to expect nothing more than frugal living..sure it's no good being rich unless everyone else is poor... otherwise you don't get to feel like you're above other people!

He was right in one way, we have become very materialistic