Christophobia

Sgt Hartman

Why is Christophobia deemed acceptable among society today? I have witnessed some horrible abuse and ridicule aimed at Christianity and Christians, especially Catholics in various sections of the liberal media. Christians are ridiculed with impunity whilst the same ridicule aimed as Islam and Judaism is shot down as being "Anti-Semitic" or "Islamophobic". It's complete hypocrisy and cowardice in my opinion to attack one group who will not fight back (Christians) whilst pandering to groups who will (Islam, Judaism)

Also,the After Hours section of this site has been used as a platform for spouting this bile. Some of the insults and mockery aimed at Christians on that site are downright disgusting and offensive. I can take criticism of Christianity but there's a line between being critical and being downright patronising, insulting and offensive.

I believe Christians must take a leaf out of other religions and be more vocal and pro-active in defending their faith against this mockery and ridicule.

Keylem

http://catholicadvocate.com/?p=1843

The above link might give you some answers!

The media may attack the Catholic Church because of the failures of some of it's members, nevertheless the Catholic Church is the custodian of the fullness of truth, and many people don't like to hear the truth, and some newpapers twist and bend information to SENSATIONALISE articles, and it sells papers - never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

PDN

If you want discuss what goes on in other sections of boards.ie then please take it to Feedback or Dispute Resolution. Here we discuss Christian issues, but not other forums.

Keylem

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

I believe Christians must take a leaf out of other religions and be more vocal and pro-active in defending their faith against this mockery and ridicule.

Christ also said to turn the other cheek! Matthew 5:39
For I am meek and humble of heart! Matthew 11:29
The meek shall inherit the earth! Matthew 5:5

Sgt Hartman

Keylem wrote: »

http://catholicadvocate.com/?p=1843

The above link might give you some answers!

The media may attack the Catholic Church because of the failures of some of it's members, nevertheless the Catholic Church is the custodian of the fullness of truth, and many people don't like to hear the truth, and some newpapers twist and bend information to SENSATIONALISE articles, and it sells papers - never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

Cheers for the link Keylem.

PDN wrote: »

If you want discuss what goes on in other sections of boards.ie then please take it to Feedback or Dispute Resolution. Here we discuss Christian issues, but not other forums.

I believe attacks on Christianity are a Christian issue. I'm not just talking about After Hours though, I'm talking about Christophobic attacks in general. I just used AH as an example.

Keylem wrote: »

Christ also said to turn the other cheek! Matthew 5:39
For I am meek and humble of heart! Matthew 11:29
The meek shall inherit the earth! Matthew 5:5

Indeed. I still believe it is every Christian's duty to defend their faith. This doesn't mean that they should be as aggressively and as belligerent to their enemies as their enemies are to them. To be meek, calm and objective when defending your faith is important because by being as nasty as your enemy, then you are only dragging yourself down to their level and that's what they want.

Keylem

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

Cheers for the link Keylem.


Indeed. I still believe it is every Christian's duty to defend their faith. This doesn't mean that they should be as aggressively and as belligerent to their enemies as their enemies are to them. To be meek, calm and objective when defending your faith is important because by being as nasty as your enemy, then you are only dragging yourself down to their level and that's what they want.

Exactly, it's what sets us apart - do it with LOVE!

PDN

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

I believe attacks on Christianity are a Christian issue. I'm not just talking about After Hours though, I'm talking about Christophobic attacks in general. I just used AH as an example.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't discussing whether it is OK to discuss here what goes on in the AH Forum. I was issuing a moderating instruction not to do so.

Zombrex

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

Why is Christophobia deemed acceptable among society today?

Freedom of speech?

Keylem

Wicknight wrote: »

Freedom of speech?

Ahhh the freedom of speech thing......even when it contains porkies

Donatello

I find the 'Christianophobia' tag hilarious - who do you know is afraid of Christians?

Just like I am not homophobic - I ain't afraid of no gays! I just think that the lifestyle choice is a bad one and against the Natural Law and God's will for man.

I saw recently that Pope Benedict recently used the term 'Christianophobia' - I guess he thinks 'If you can't beat them, join them' in the use if silly terms.

Christians are mocked and reviled - Catholics in particular, because we hold the absolute truth and stand firm on many moral issues that our separated children have fallen for - abortion, contraception, even gay sex. Only the Catholic Church teaches all the Sacred Tradition entrusted to the Church by Christ, and that is why She, the Holy Catholic Church, is hated above all else. Only the Catholic Church is the firm and perpetual buttress against the wickedness of this world. The gates of hell shall not prevail!

I would just say Christians, Catholics in particular, need to be straight talkers. Explain and articulate your beliefs, don't be afraid, and simply present the truth in charity. Write letters to newspapers if the Church is attacked or whatnot, use the web - get the facts. I've had several letters published in newspapers locally.

Keylem

Donatello wrote: »

I find the 'Christianophobia' tag hilarious - who do you know is afraid of Christians?

Just like I am not homophobic - I ain't afraid of no gays! I just think that the lifestyle choice is a bad one and against the Natural Law and God's will for man.

I saw recently that Pope Benedict recently used the term 'Christianophobia' - I guess he thinks 'If you can't beat them, join them' in the use if silly terms.

Christians are mocked and reviled - Catholics in particular, because we hold the absolute truth and stand firm on many moral issues that our separated children have fallen for - abortion, contraception, even gay sex. Only the Catholic Church teaches all the Sacred Tradition entrusted to the Church by Christ, and that is why She, the Holy Catholic Church, is hated above all else. Only the Catholic Church is the firm and perpetual buttress against the wickedness of this world. The gates of hell shall not prevail!

I would just say Christians, Catholics in particular, need to be straight talkers. Explain and articulate your beliefs, don't be afraid, and simply present the truth in charity. Write letters to newspapers if the Church is attacked or whatnot, use the web - get the facts. I've had several letters published in newspapers locally.

I had a letter published in the Irish Independant in regards to Ms Sleeman and her Mass Boycott!

JimiTime

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

Why is Christophobia deemed acceptable among society today?

First of all, I would implore you not to use the term Christophobia. Much like what Donatello said, these terms are weasel terms. People love a good Pejorative to throw at someone, don't get sucked into that kind of agenda driven dishonest idiocy. It may work, but the ends don't justify the means. Thats my 2 cent on that particular issue:)

I have witnessed some horrible abuse and ridicule aimed at Christianity and Christians, especially Catholics in various sections of the liberal media. Christians are ridiculed with impunity whilst the same ridicule aimed as Islam and Judaism is shot down as being "Anti-Semitic" or "Islamophobic". It's complete hypocrisy and cowardice in my opinion to attack one group who will not fight back (Christians) whilst pandering to groups who will (Islam, Judaism)

Meh. I think its grown up not to take offence at idiots. Sure, point out flaws in their 'reasoning' etc, but there are so many ignorant people out there that you would go mad if you took offence at their stupidity.

I see where you are coming from, but as Christians, we should reflect on how we and our organisations have let the name of Jesus Christ down. Laziness, apathy, scandal etc. We should be looking to be beyond reproach for the Lord.

Remember though, that they hated Christ, so we should expect, even if we are beyond reproach, an element of hatred of Christ still. Christianities history of hypocrisy does not help matters, so we must also look at ourselves when we see people dissing Christ and his followers. We must ask ourselves what we are doing, and if it is promoting Christ positively. We do not want to be the slave who buries the coin of the master, or even worse, be a slave who's behavior reflects poorly on the master.

Also,the After Hours section of this site has been used as a platform for spouting this bile. Some of the insults and mockery aimed at Christians on that site are downright disgusting and offensive. I can take criticism of Christianity but there's a line between being critical and being downright patronising, insulting and offensive.

It does seem to be a source of ridicule these days alright. Ignorance is ignorance.

I believe Christians must take a leaf out of other religions and be more vocal and pro-active in defending their faith against this mockery and ridicule.

The best thing a Christian can do, is live like Christ. I sincerely believe that if everyone who claimed to follow Christ, actually did follow him, atheism etc would be the source of the ridicule. Sure, speak out against anything oppressive etc, but mockery etc? Nah. Leave the taking offence to people who get their knickers in a twist about a religious song played at a rugby match, or a nurse offering to pray for a patient. I think we, whatever our creed or belief, should just grow a set and stop looking for offence, and especially don't go looking to take offence for others. I would hate to see a Christian group burn down a Mosque in retaliation to some tasteless cartoon by some muslim relating to Jesus. Or taking the Indian government to court for discrimination because a doctor that treated them wore a turban, or there was a pic of Shiva in the reception.

Fanny Cradock

JimiTime wrote: »

I sincerely believe that if everyone who claimed to follow Christ, actually did follow him, atheism etc would be the source of the ridicule.

That's an interesting thought, Jimi!

AhSureTisGrand

Donatello wrote: »

I find the 'Christianophobia' tag hilarious - who do you know is afraid of Christians?

It might be worth pointing out that "phobia" is also used commonly to refer to hatred, in which case terms like Christianophobia and homophobia make a lot
more sense, even if you still disagree with using them

Donatello

Keylem wrote: »

I had a letter published in the Irish Independant in regards to Ms Sleeman and her Mass Boycott!

Sweet.

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

It might be worth pointing out that "phobia" is also used commonly to refer to hatred, in which case terms like Christianophobia and homophobia make a lot
more sense, even if you still disagree with using them

The term 'homophobia' was coined by homosexualist activists as a slur to pin on objectors of their agenda so they could be quickly silenced. They wrote a book about how to normalise homosexuality.

AhSureTisGrand

Donatello wrote: »

The term 'homophobia' was coined by homosexualist activists as a slur to pin on objectors of their agenda so they could be quickly silenced.

I wonder who coined Christianophobia and why...

JimiTime

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

I wonder who coined Christianophobia and why...

This thread is the first time I've heard the term. Is it common?

Ghost Buster

JimiTime wrote: »

This thread is the first time I've heard the term. Is it common?

As common as this image being used on threads such as this Im afraid:D

Keylem

Ghost Buster wrote: »

As common as this image being used on threads such as this Im afraid:D

Perhaps you should share that image with Christians who are persecuted to death in Egypt, Pakistan etc.

Here's one I'd like to share!


{snip}
I really don't want graphic images or links to being placed in threads, especially not without warnings.

I apologise - it won't happen again! Keylem.

Ghost Buster

Keylem wrote: »

And you seem to post that image a lot!

What can i say..
Im common and I keep being given reason to be common.:)

Keylem

Edited my post to link to another 'persecution/execution' image!

Keylem

Ghost Buster wrote: »

What can i say..
Im common and I keep being given reason to be common.:)

You said it - you're easily made common then!

I have another name for it - intolerance!!

Donatello

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

I wonder who coined Christianophobia and why...

Do you know?

Donatello

Ghost Buster wrote: »

As common as this image being used on threads such as this Im afraid:D

That pie chart is very silly and not at all accurate. The true slice of believing Christians is much smaller than that large blue swathe. In America, the most vicious anti-Catholics are minions like Biden and Pelosi, who are CINOs - Catholics in name only. They love abortion and all those sorts of things and campaign actively against everything the Church stands for.

Ghost Buster

Donatello wrote: »

That pie chart is very silly and not at all accurate. The true slice of believing Christians is much smaller than that large blue swathe. In America, the most vicious anti-Catholics are minions like Biden and Pelosi, who are CINOs - Catholics in name only. They love abortion and all those sorts of things and campaign actively against everything the Church stands for.

If i question you on this will you tell me that you have not really thought much about it again?

Donatello

Ghost Buster wrote: »

If i question you on this will you tell me that you have not really thought much about it again?

All the information you require is in my post.

strobe

Seems like the same kind of thing where white people in majority white countries ask why it's Ok to ridicule white's but not other races.

philologos

Personally, I accept that believing in Christ will bring some form of ridicule. Its nothing that we can't endure and I wouldn't call it christophobia. Indeed I hope such a ridiculous word would drop out from usage. We know absolutely nothing of persecution.

I will use all the freedoms I have in Irish society to tell others of my belief in Christ. That's enough for me. I don't need to be shielded from what can be valid criticism.

robindch

Donatello wrote: »

Christians are mocked and reviled - Catholics in particular, because we hold the absolute truth and stand firm on many moral issues that our separated children have fallen for - abortion, contraception, even gay sex.

If you take the trouble to ask the non-religious, you'll probably find that they laugh at religion because they find it very silly indeed.

Have a look at A+A's The Funny Side of Religion -- up to a day or two back, the forum's largest thread.

philologos

Donatello wrote:

Christians are mocked and reviled - Catholics in particular, because we hold the absolute truth and stand firm on many moral issues that our separated children have fallen for - abortion, contraception, even gay sex

Words cannot describe what bad a taste posts like these leave in my mind. I believe that although these things are wrong in the eyes of God, many other behaviours or characteristics of human living such as greed, oppression, injustice, lying, committing adultery, lustfulness, dishonesty in trading, not living to the fullness of the gospel, holding grudges, hating someone in your heart, being slow to forgive. All of these things fall short of God's amazing standard. Part of the beauty of living for God is to know how much His grace means. He has forgiven us, we have lived lives that have rejected His standard. Yet we have been forgiven. It's beautiful. Christians are defined by who we are in Christ rather than what we don't do.

Keylem

robindch wrote: »

If you take the trouble to ask the non-religious, you'll probably find that they laugh at religion because they find it very silly indeed.

Have a look at A+A's The Funny Side of Religion -- up to a day or two back, the forum's largest thread.

There's OTHER religions besides Christianity, are those being mocked, or is it just Christians that are being singled out, just askin'!

Donatello

Jakkass wrote: »

Words cannot describe what bad a taste posts like these leave in my mind. I believe that although these things are wrong in the eyes of God, many other behaviours or characteristics of human living such as greed, oppression, injustice, lying, committing adultery, lustfulness, dishonesty in trading, not living to the fullness of the gospel, holding grudges, hating someone in your heart, being slow to forgive. All of these things fall short of God's amazing standard. Part of the beauty of living for God is to know how much His grace means. He has forgiven us, we have lived lives that have rejected His standard. Yet we have been forgiven. It's beautiful. Christians are defined by who we are in Christ rather than what we don't do.

And those who love God are marked out by the fact that they don't kill their unborn children, offend against chastity, or contracept, or do any of the other things you mentioned. Being a Christian is not a licence to continue as our lives were before. The old man must die, and with him all his bad habits and ways. I'm still working on all this, lest you be fooled and think me perfect. But perfection as the Father is perfect is our calling.

Examine closely for where the bad taste comes from. All these things are clues. Follow it up, wherever it might lead. Only by seeing what is there can you be free. Christ will light the way.

strobe

Keylem wrote: »

There's OTHER religions besides Christianity, are those being mocked, or is it just Christians that are being singled out, just askin'!

Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Scientology, Judaism........they're all in there. We're equal opportunity mockists (mockers?) Keylem, just answerin'.

Onesimus

No pain no gain, no Cross No crown, no gall no glory.

philologos

Donatello wrote: »

And those who love God are marked out by the fact that they don't kill their unborn children, offend against chastity, or contracept, or do any of the other things you mentioned. Being a Christian is not a licence to continue as our lives were before. The old man must die, and with him all his bad habits and ways. I'm still working on all this, lest you be fooled and think me perfect. But perfection as the Father is perfect is our calling.

I agree in the sense that it isn't a license to continue as before. I also think we need to be more consistent about serving Christ in all ways rather than falling into the familiar categories of abortion and homosexuality.

By the by, what Biblical basis do you have on contraception? Just curious?

Donatello wrote: »

Examine closely for where the bad taste comes from. All these things are clues. Follow it up, wherever it might lead. Only by seeing what is there can you be free. Christ will light the way.

I reckon it comes from Christ. He wants us to explore things far beyond the two familiar topics. He shook society to the core last time he was here.

Edit: Indeed, when Jesus was here He criticised the religious authorities far more than 'sinners'. If we claim to be living according to His Gospel how much more can we expect to be criticised by Him?

hightower1

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

Why is Christophobia deemed acceptable among society today? I have witnessed some horrible abuse and ridicule aimed at Christianity and Christians, especially Catholics in various sections of the liberal media. Christians are ridiculed with impunity whilst the same ridicule aimed as Islam and Judaism is shot down as being "Anti-Semitic" or "Islamophobic". It's complete hypocrisy and cowardice in my opinion to attack one group who will not fight back (Christians) whilst pandering to groups who will (Islam, Judaism)

Well perhaps people feel its ok to throw a little mockery by christians way seeing as the christian religion and religious instatutions spent hundreds of years oppressing and destroying free will and expression of freedom (dark ages anyone?) so turn around is only fair play. Considering how bad athiests / other religions were treated by christians for hundreds of years I think christians could put up with a little light slagging for the next few hundred years back?

Fanny Cradock

hightower1 wrote: »

Well perhaps people feel its ok to throw a little mockery by christians way seeing as the christian religion and religious instatutions spent hundreds of years oppressing and destroying free will and expression of freedom (dark ages anyone?) so turn around is only fair play. Considering how bad athiests / other religions were treated by christians for hundreds of years I think christians could put up with a little light slagging for the next few hundred years back?

You should probably read up on the Dark Ages before making any claims.

Ghost Buster

Donatello. You seem more than a little pre-occupied with homosexuality.
Why. I wouldnt like to speculate

PDN

hightower1 wrote: »

Well perhaps people feel its ok to throw a little mockery by christians way seeing as the christian religion and religious instatutions spent hundreds of years oppressing and destroying free will and expression of freedom (dark ages anyone?) so turn around is only fair play. Considering how bad athiests / other religions were treated by christians for hundreds of years I think christians could put up with a little light slagging for the next few hundred years back?

Here's a wee idea for you. Read a few history books. See how many incidences you can find of atheists being oppressed by Christians. You know the kind of stuff - being imprisoned in gulags, tortured in prisons, having atheist gatherings raided by armed police etc. Then come back and tell us about them.

This is mad
I did google expecting to find nothing much, but
http://books.google.com/books?id=tAeFipOVx4MC&pg=PA250&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists

During the Middle Ages, the term "atheist" was used as an insult and applied to a broad range of people, including those who held opposing theological beliefs, as well as suicides, immoral or self-indulgent people, and even opponents of the belief in witchcraft.[1][6][7] Atheistic beliefs continued to be seen as threatening to order and society by philosophers such as Thomas Aquinas. Lawyer and scholar Thomas More asserted that religious tolerance should be extended to all except those who did not believe in a deity or the immortality of the soul.[4] Even John Locke, a founder of modern notions of religious liberty, argued that atheists (as well as Catholics and Muslims) should not be granted full citizenship rights.[4]
During the Inquisition, several of those accused of atheism and/or blasphemy met gruesome fates. These included a priest Giulio Cesare Vanini who was strangled and burned in 1619 and a Polish nobleman Kazimierz Łyszczyński who was executed in Warsaw,[1][8][9] as well as Etienne Dolet, a Frenchman executed in 1546. Though heralded as atheist martyrs during the nineteenth century, recent scholars hold that the beliefs espoused by Dolet and Vanini are not atheistic in modern terms.[3][10][11]

During the nineteenth century, British atheists, though few in number, were subject to discriminatory practices.[12] Those unwilling to swear Christian oaths during judicial proceedings were unable to give evidence in court to obtain justice until the discrimination was ended by Acts passed in 1869 and 1870.[12

They talk about "not atheism in the modern sense" though, I wonder what it meant

Keylem

strobe wrote: »

Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Scientology, Judaism........they're all in there. We're equal opportunity mockists (mockers?) Keylem, just answerin'.

Okay....here's one!



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

AhSureTisGrand

hightower1 wrote: »

Well perhaps people feel its ok to throw a little mockery by christians way seeing as the christian religion and religious instatutions spent hundreds of years oppressing and destroying free will and expression of freedom (dark ages anyone?) so turn around is only fair play. Considering how bad athiests / other religions were treated by christians for hundreds of years I think christians could put up with a little light slagging for the next few hundred years back?

I don't mock religions for retribution. I just think they're funny

AhSureTisGrand

Keylem wrote: »

Okay....here's one!



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Your point being? :L

Keylem

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Your point being? :L

A continuation of a joke thread about religion, this one is for Atheists I just think they're funny!

I was answering Strobe, I included his quote!

AhSureTisGrand

Keylem wrote: »

A continuation of a joke thread about religion, this one is for Atheists I just think they're funny!

I was answering Strobe, I included his quote!

For atheists like the rest of the Funny Side of Religion thread? :S

Keylem

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

For atheists like the rest of the Funny Side of Religion thread? :S

Ooops had 2 browsers open and replied to wrong thread!

AhSureTisGrand

I think I'm lost

AhSureTisGrand

Basically I'm confused as to what the picture's doing here when you've posted it in the Funny Side of Religion thread

Edit: oh I see that would make sense alright:L

hightower1

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

You should probably read up on the Dark Ages before making any claims.

I accept your critisisim so how about taking all the damage the modern age catholic instatution has caused? Child abuse, work houses and the general authoritarian attitude the instatution Ireland specifically had to endure for the last 150 years? I think this period alone is warrent enough to now have turn around and poke fun at the church. Catholics really have no leg to stand on in the light of their religions past transgretions, in fact whinging about a little slagging is a bit insulting considering the pain the religion has caused was a lot greater than some mild media banter.

Fanny Cradock

hightower1 wrote: »

I accept your critisisim so how about taking all the damage the modern age catholic instatution has caused? Child abuse, work houses and the general authoritarian attitude the instatution Ireland specifically had to endure for the last 150 years? I think this period alone is warrent enough to now have turn around and poke fun at the church. Catholics really have no leg to stand on in the light of their religions past transgretions, in fact whinging about a little slagging is a bit insulting considering the pain the religion has caused was a lot greater than some mild media banter.

I'm a Christian, not a Roman Catholic. Undoubtedly many bad things have been done by professing Christians and organizations claiming to represent Christ. However, it's a puerile argument that says Christians of today should not only be judged by the sins of the distant past but they should be held to account for them.

Much like the common misconception about the so called Dark Ages, it seems that there is a common perception amongst some people that the only thing the RC has done in this country is to repress and abuse. The truth is far more complex. And while it is right to point out the gross failings of the Church, it seems only fair to point out the bigger picture.

Society in the West was built largely upon Judeo-Christian values. And it was the RCC who built the universities, hospitals and cared for the needy in this country and others. But it seems obvious that that some people are absolutely unwilling to entertain the possibility that the RCC isn't the Evil Empire (red letters to highlight their evil). To do this they have to ignore vast swaths of history or give primacy only to the bad stuff.

I say all this as somebody who has no interest in defending the RCC when they are wrong. Nor do I have any intention of defending what I see as some of the potentially dangerous doctrines (stance on contraception) the Church holds.

robindch

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Society in the West was built largely upon Judeo-Christian values.

Yes, inasmuch as christianity recommended any particular state model, it was a firmly authoritarian one, which permitted many subsequent states and leaders to use it to legitimize centuries of supremacist behaviour -- the list of violent incidents and policies it inspired is virtually endless.

These began to abate once the states began the long process of secularization from ideas that were developed from around the middle of the 18th century, choosing to exclude religion from the corridors of power and instead, develop a range of political ideas which are entirely absent from the bible such as human rights, constitutional law, democratically-elected parliaments, independent judiciaries and so on.

The other "judeo-christian" values that you might be referring to -- trust, honesty, respect for the rule of law -- were core to the broadly-secular Roman Empire (and many others) which preceded christianity and it's quite unfair to claim, as I believe you are, that the latter had much to do with introducing them, which it certainly did not.

.