The 'digital' TV aerial myth

The Cush

With the launch of Saorview just around the corner how many are going to be conned into buying a new "digital" aerial (or even a Sky subscription for that matter).

RTÉNL have to ensure that the 'digital' TV aerial myth is highlighted in their literature.

In the UK Bill Wright has done this thru his PARAS website but people are still caught out.

This from What Satellite online

The myth of the 'digital' TV aerial
Alex Lane - Mon, 28/02/2011 - 4:06pm

A TV dealer and installer is giving bad advice by promoting the fabled (and non-existent) 'digital TV aerial'.

Kentish firm TV Aerial & Satellite Installers says: 'With the digital switchover set to reach completion in 2012, anyone who wants to keep using their standard Freeview box will have to ensure they have a TV aerial which can support it.

'...some people may need to upgrade to a digital TV aerial by the time the switchover is complete.'

While some people do need to upgrade their aerials because they're just old and worn out, TV Aerial & Satellite Installers is promoting the myth that there exists such a thing as the 'digital aerial'.

A TV aerial sees no difference between analogue and digital signals - only the receiver or your TV will notice the difference.

If you get a decent analogue picture, you'll get a good digital picture. Interference to your analogue picture is a good indicator that you may need a new aerial for digital.

What's more, while your digital TV signal may not be great before Switchover, the power of digital TV transmissions will increase when analogue is turned off, and you may not need that new aerial after all.

And they fail to mention that cheap, poor quality coax from the aerial to the TV is also likely to bring reception problems. Or maybe they'll have some 'digital' cable to sell next?

This is the same TV Aerial & Satellite Installers who recently said you need a new aerial for Freeview HD or to use a Freeview+ PVR.

Are TV Aerial & Satellite Installers unscrupulous, or merely ignorant?

Either way, you can certainly be sure they won't be collecting one of our Super TV Installer Awards.

http://wotsat.techradar.com/news/myth-digital-tv-aerial-28-02-11

The source for the article

TV Aerial & Satellite Installers Comment on Digital TV Aerials with Freeview
By Gary Manning @ 24th Feb 2011 12:07:00

United Kingdom (14 February, 2011) - TV Aerial & Satellite Installers, a leading UK supplier of satellite, home entertainment and digital TV aerial installation services, comment on the relationship between digital TV aerials and Freeview.

With the digital switchover set to reach completion in 2012, anyone who wants to keep using their standard Freeview box will have to ensure they have a TV aerial which can support it. The switchover is taking place to ensure that everyone receives a better broadcast signal than they have in recent years, which has seen some areas receive certain channels better than others. The switchover will see all television signals broadcast as digital information rather than the traditional analogue format, which will provide clearer reception for everyone.

However, this means that everyone will have to have some way of receiving the digital transmissions. Many people have purchased Freeview boxes over the past few years, which provide a limited assortment of free-to-air channels. However, in order to receive the best picture and sound, some people may need to upgrade to a digital TV aerial by the time the switchover is complete.

“The Digital Switchover has been a long time coming, and there has been a real push to ensure everyone is prepared, but some aerials will receive better digital signals than most,” commented a spokesperson for TV Aerial & Satellite Installers. "While most aerials will pick up the digital transmissions, digital TV aerials which feature the digital 'tick' will receive the most reliable picture and sound. As a leading provider of TV aerials, we can advise people of which will suit them best to receive optimum broadcast reception."

If you would like to learn more about digital TV aerials, visit TV Aerial & Satellite Installers at http://www.tvaerialcompany.co.uk or freephone 0800 121 41 91.


About TV Aerial & Satellite Installers:
TV Aerial & Satellite Installers only employ aerial installers with a minimum of five years experience in the installation field, and all employees undergo a comprehensive aerial installation course to meet the strict quality guidelines as promised by the company. TV Aerial & Satellite Installers offer same day service where possible and offer free quotes for competitively-priced installation services. Each installation carries a one year guarantee and, should any faults occur during this time, the installers at TV Aerial & Satellite Installers will visit the property in question within 24 hours to fix the problem, whether a Freesat, Sky or Freeview installation.


Contact:
Gary Manning
Unit 67,
Joseph Wilson Industrial Estate,
Millstrood Road,
Whitstable,
Kent,
CT5 3PS
0800 121 41 91
bookings@tvaerialcompany.co.uk

http://www.prfire.co.uk/press-release/tv-aerial-and-satellite-installers-comment-on-digital-tv-aerials-with-freeview-46082.html

watty

+1

Ray Maguire of RTE specifically mentioned this last week at ISAA session.

ISAA gives a ++ to Bill Wright

No Digital Aerials

No Digital Dishes

No Digital LNBs

No Digital Cables, just wires, twisted pairs, coaxial or Fibre.

A real SCART cable is actually more expensive and higher quality cable than an HDMI cable, which is electrically similar to a pair of CAT5e network cables internally. USB needs higher quality data wire than HDMI, though only one pair rather than four.

Sam the Aerialman

This subject was discussed at length on a particular broadcast forum. It would appear Mr Manning has been the Director of a number of similar companies running questionable activities and was under investigation by trading standards.

"TV Aerial & Satellite Installers only employ aerial installers with a minimum of five years experience in the installation field, and all employees undergo a comprehensive aerial installation course to meet the strict quality guidelines as promised by the company"

This statement is also total bollocks.

recyclebin

Looks like Aldi are havin a laugh. WTF is a HD ready aerial?

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_16170.htm

Sam the Aerialman

recyclebin wrote: »

Looks like Aldi are havin a laugh. WTF is a HD ready aerial?

Horrific - Better performance from a rusty spoon. There was a bloke from Ards who had an 'HD Aerial' plastered on his van and was taking down perfectly good aerials. One of the aerials was mine, it had been on the rooftop for 4 weeks before this muppet conned a street of people to replace their aerials. To say i wasn't amused was an understatement, the new aerial wasn't even aligned properly. The best one was he told a customer 'He invented the HD aerial himself'...

Antenna

The Aldi site says:

HD Ready Indoor Aerial
each €19.99 *

---

This digital Indoor Aerial is designed to filter out interference and boost the signal and is ideal for TVs in bedrooms and kitchens. This aerial is also suitable for receiving digital radio signals as well as analogue.

Can be wall or table mounted with an adjustable fin
Independently tested – 96% performance rated
HD Ready design suitable for HD broadcast when available – requires HD ready TV

"96% performance rated" ?? 96% of what?

BTW from the picture the UHF fin aerial looks like it cannot be switched to vertical polarisation where needed? (unless you mount the whole thing at a 90 degree angle?)

watty

Those are rubbish not very good and not work €19.

The rods are for VHF, about 1dB gain

The Printed Log periodic is rubbish. No better than a €6 Yagi indoor.

There is no significant filtering at all,
But CAI*, ASAI, NSA are not as good as a Chocolate Teapot. At least you could eat it even if no good for tea making.


also Aldi has never sold a TV compatible with UK or Irish HD terrestrial.



(*Consumer Association of Ireland, not the UK aerial folk)

Butch Cassidy

I am going to need an aerial. Recommendations? I live off the M50 near Tallaght so I think Three Rock is my nearest.

I think I saw a few "Digital" Aerials in Power City there last week. The people that work there are smart and must obviously

lawhec

watty wrote: »

Those are rubbish.

The rods are for VHF, about 1dB gain

The Printed Log periodic is rubbish. No better than a €6 Yagi indoor.

There is no significant filtering at all,
But CAI*, ASAI, NSA are not as good as a Chocolate Teapot. At least you could eat it even if no good for tea making.


also Aldi has never sold a TV compatible with UK or Irish HD terrestrial.



(*Consumer Association of Ireland, not the UK aerial folk)

I might have to disagree here Watty, to a point. I bought a similar aerial to this a few years ago in Argos for £10 (I think the manufacturer is Telecam, but I never noticed much) however it only had the UHF Log Periodic element to it, no VHF rods, and the base was slightly different. Testing it against a few other indoor aerials it was the best of a bunch that included a 6 element yagi (3 directors, 2 reflectors), a five element yagi (just one reflector) and a "rabbit ears" with its legs reduced to a centre pick up frequency of E28 (middle of UHF Group A).

The Telecam aerial was the only one that could pick up any DTT from Brougher Mountain in my attic workshop (pulled in three of the 16QAM Multiplexes, 1, C & D, albeit with some occasional breakup that wasn't at an "annoying level" with Mux B slightly weaker and prone to more break up which was annoying, and the 64QAM Muxs 2 & A not being "good enough"), the other three could not display a steady picture on any multiplex, so there must be a reasonable amount of gain on the printed log periodic aerial. In trying to make the best of a poor situation from using indoor aerials, that's the best one I have.

Still, indoor aerials such as those I'd still never recommend if you can put up an outdoor aerial even in an attic space.

watty

Ok not actually rubbish but not as advertised and not worth €19

I find actual location makes far more difference than model of indoor aerial.

Maybe you had especially bad ones.

Your log periodic was only just similar, not the same one. I've seen that actual one (that Aldi has) in B&Q and handled it. Poorly made. Maybe a clone?

reboot

watty wrote: »

+1

Ray Maguire of RTE specifically mentioned this last week at ISAA session.

ISAA gives a ++ to Bill Wright

No Digital Aerials

No Digital Dishes

No Digital LNBs

No Digital Cables, just wires, twisted pairs, coaxial or Fibre.

A real SCART cable is actually more expensive and higher quality cable than an HDMI cable, which is electrically similar to a pair of CAT5e network cables internally. USB needs higher quality data wire than HDMI, though only one pair rather than four.

I know you have spoken on the matter of combining two identical aerials to improve signal strength,sorry to ask you to repeat yourself.

Looking at Isle of Mann from Co.Down coast SD channels are romping in on Channels 43(ITV) and 46 (BBC) 100% signal and Signal quality 98%
SD 673.998 MegHz,
HD channel 50,Signal Strengh 95% Signal Quality 4% and picture dropping out .705.997 Meg.Hz.
Group b (Yellow)vert, polarity,amp and power supply.
Is there any point in trying to improve the Signal Quality by putting a second similar aerial close to the first?How to Di-plex if nescessary,if just paralled how would power supply cope and so on?
Why the differnce between the SD and HD signal quality.?

watty

Mount the two aerials about 0.6m apart horizontally if horizontally polarised, or 0.6m apart vertically if vertically polarised.
Identical coax and length with F-connectors to a decent TV splitter.
Splitter then to mast pre-amp. Absolutely only one pre-amp after the splitter used as a combiner.

It will improve signal level by 2dB to 2.5dB. It will improve "quality" (SNR) by almost 3dB.

To get same improvement again, you need FOUR aerials. Each pair (0.6m x 0.5m square) is combined. All four coax identical cable and length. Then a 3rd combiner adds the two pairs to feed the mast head pre-amp.

Use these outdoor casing splitter/combiners with slide on covers
http://www.blake-uk.com/promhs.aspx
proMHS12P Mk2 (3.5dB is split loss, since 3dB is perfect split of a signal, half each, the actual loss is 0.5dB per leg, so combiner loss is 0.5 to 1dB depending on where the loss is. BUT that 0.5dB to 1dB attenuates the noise as well as signal, so quality is not lost.)

The Multiplex for HD is DVB-T2.
There is no free lunch. To get the fatter HD signals, even with DVB-T2 needs more bandwidth. That means making the signal less robust.

If power and channel size are the same, you can have more Range and less content, or More Content and less range (WiFi is adpative so at 300Mbps within a metre (20 HD channels) quickly drops to 2Mbps at further distances (no HD channels))

reboot

watty wrote: »

Mount the two aerials about 0.6m apart horizontally if horizontally polarised, or 0.6m apart vertically if vertically polarised.
Identical coax and length with F-connectors to a decent TV splitter.
Splitter then to mast pre-amp. Absolutely only one pre-amp after the splitter used as a combiner.

It will improve signal level by 2dB to 2.5dB. It will improve "quality" (SNR) by almost 3dB.

To get same improvement again, you need FOUR aerials. Each pair (0.6m x 0.5m square) is combined. All four coax identical cable and length. Then a 3rd combiner adds the two pairs to feed the mast head pre-amp.

Use these outdoor casing splitter/combiners with slide on covers
http://www.blake-uk.com/promhs.aspx
proMHS12P Mk2 (3.5dB is split loss, since 3dB is perfect split of a signal, half each, the actual loss is 0.5dB per leg, so combiner loss is 0.5 to 1dB depending on where the loss is. BUT that 0.5dB to 1dB attenuates the noise as well as signal, so quality is not lost.)

The Multiplex for HD is DVB-T2.
There is no free lunch. To get the fatter HD signals, even with DVB-T2 needs more bandwidth. That means making the signal less robust.

If power and channel size are the same, you can have more Range and less content, or More Content and less range (WiFi is adpative so at 300Mbps within a metre (20 HD channels) quickly drops to 2Mbps at further distances (no HD channels))

Did a quick lash up,as per your instructions,(would make you weep),but big improvement in SNR which was the problem as suggested on HD.
So far so good,HD pictures rock steady,will monitor through the evening,and do a more profession job in the morning.
This does give me throught though,if people have a great Freeview
signal,they will get a shock when they may discover poor or no Freeview HD signal from the same source.
I suppose that what this thread is about.
Many thanks for your prompt and clear reply.Top man.
I'm thinking there is perhaps room for a thread on the following.
Man buys a Freeview HD tele or STB.What aerial does he buy,where does he point it?Which way up,and what colour is the end cap of the aerial,if any?He needs a mast head amp,power suppy, and so on.Perhaps if such a thread was started and kept very simple,it might bring some young member into boards .ie? Thanks again will report back soon.

excollier

Is this the type of set up you'd be looking for?

http://www.vanjak.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=32432

Victor_M

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I am going to need an aerial. Recommendations? I live off the M50 near Tallaght so I think Three Rock is my nearest.

I think I saw a few "Digital" Aerials in Power City there last week. The people that work there are smart and must obviously

I bought one of THESE last week in power city, €49.99, works perfectly in Castleknock, picked up 20 DTT tv & radio stations no problem. Comes with all appropriate mounting brackets.

Vince Cable

Victor_M wrote: »

I bought one of THESE last week in power city, €49.99, works perfectly in Castleknock, picked up 20 DTT tv & radio stations no problem. Comes with all appropriate mounting brackets.

It's a pity you didn't see this thread last week . . .

reboot

Vince Cable wrote: »

It's a pity you didn't see this thread last week . . .

It would be interesting to see the performance when receiving Freeview HD,ie DVB-T2,the subject under discussion.

Vince Cable

reboot wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the performance when receiving Freeview HD,ie DVB-T2,the subject under discussion.

The subject under discussion is (was) 'digital' aerials, it was yourself introduced the T2 side.

watty

Victor_M wrote: »

I bought one of THESE last week in power city, €49.99, works perfectly in Castleknock, picked up 20 DTT tv & radio stations no problem. Comes with all appropriate mounting brackets.

So would a proper aerial costing 1/4 of that. It's a total gimmick and little more effective than 6" of wire on end of coax.

ALL of the One-For-All aerials are very overpriced Marketing department style, Fake snake oil claims and not Engineering.


The DVB-T2 mux are typically running at lower power /data-rate ratio than regular Freeview. There is nothing different about aerials. They give the coverage they are designed for. Obviously outside the coverage area you might need a higher gain aerial than for plain Freeview. It's a red herring to the discussion.

Capt'n Midnight

is if possible to get the ASAI to do something about the number of elements in an aerial not being as described.

reflector - one element (it's like a mirror at the back of the antenna)
driven - one element (the wire goes here)
directors - fancy shapes and stacking them near each other doesn't make more :mad:

IMHO you can only have one director at each distance from the driven element , I hate marketing people who more or less lie

This 7 element antenna is being described as a 32 element one !
http://mydeco.com/p/slx-32-element-digital-tv-aerial/GB0001D02WRUKL2QZ5RFQLOQULVKBAEEGQPJXHNV/


plans for a DIY 10 element yagi - with dimensions for individual channels, not sure if two narrow bandwidth to pickup all of the DTT

http://www.mtmscientific.com/yagi.html page
http://www.mtmscientific.com/yagi.pdf plans

Victor_M

watty wrote: »

So would a proper aerial costing 1/4 of that. It's a total gimmick and little more effective than 6" of wire on end of coax.

ALL of the One-For-All aerials are very overpriced Marketing department style, Fake snake oil claims and not Engineering.


The DVB-T2 mux are typically running at lower power /data-rate ratio than regular Freeview. There is nothing different about aerials. They give the coverage they are designed for. Obviously outside the coverage area you might need a higher gain aerial than for plain Freeview. It's a red herring to the discussion.

Well I tried one of the smaller aerials and got nada, didn't fancy putting one of the regular UHF types up If I could help it, as they don't look great and where I put mine is pretty visible, so aesthetically the one for all does the trick, as well as picking up the channels, should have done a search on here beforehand obviously, normally do but I was impatient and playing with my new black gold card and wanted the channels asap.
Ah well you live and learn, it think I can live with the €25 euro cosmetic/sucker charge;)

winston_1

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

i




plans for a DIY 10 element yagi - with dimensions for individual channels, not sure if two narrow bandwidth to pickup all of the DTT

http://www.mtmscientific.com/yagi.html page
http://www.mtmscientific.com/yagi.pdf plans

Very poor design with no balan.

Butch Cassidy

watty wrote: »

So would a proper aerial costing 1/4 of that. It's a total gimmick and little more effective than 6" of wire on end of coax.

ALL of the One-For-All aerials are very overpriced Marketing department style, Fake snake oil claims and not Engineering.


The DVB-T2 mux are typically running at lower power /data-rate ratio than regular Freeview. There is nothing different about aerials. They give the coverage they are designed for. Obviously outside the coverage area you might need a higher gain aerial than for plain Freeview. It's a red herring to the discussion.

Could you recommend an outdoor aerial for me? I can see Three Rock from my house, near M50 Tallaght exit

watty

A bowtie grid
or Wideband 10 element Yagi.

Use Satellite Coax (TX100, CT100, PF100 etc)

BSOH

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Could you recommend an outdoor aerial for me? I can see Three Rock from my house, near M50 Tallaght exit

Outdoor is probably overkill at your location and the weird-shaped indoor aerials will ruin any livingroom. Try this http://www.tvtrade.ie/green-group-cd-uhf-aerial.html in the attic. Yes it's flimsy, but OK for attic. Works great in Bray. Buying the kit (bracket+clips+cable etc +VAT) pushes €10 price to €47.

BTW, I'm combining UPC analogue with aerial DTT using a dirt-cheap splitter behind the TV with absolutely no problems (UPC took their digital box away after I terminated contract but they haven't yet bothered to disconnect the remaining analogue). Despite what others here have written... "That's all very well in practice but does it work in theory?":)

watty

Wrong
Outdoor aerial is NEVER overkill

Those cheap contract aerial have no balun, so you need about 4 turns loop coax near the aerial. They are actually very durable though, more so than most "expensive" snake oil aerials with too much plastic.

Likely it needs to be outside.

lucernarian

watty wrote: »

Wrong
Outdoor aerial is NEVER overkill

Those cheap contract aerial have no balun, so you need about 4 turns loop coax near the aerial. They are actually very durable though, more so than most "expensive" snake oil aerials with too much plastic.

Likely it needs to be outside.

Never say never watty!

In the DTT age, I can think of many houses, including my own and my parents, where a contract, log periodic and 4-gang bowtie aerial worked great in a loft space with no dropouts whatsoever. Each of the environments were unique except that everyone was saved the extra time, money and the ugliness of having a suitably durable aerial outside. There comes a point where the purpose of extra signal margin becomes more theoretical than practical. Of course, one should keep their aerial outdoors if there's spark welding going on inside the house:pac:

watty

You are missing the point.
It's NEVER overkill or wrong to do outside aerial. It's irrelevant if a Loft aerial works. in 10% of locations they are OK, it doesn't make the outdoor wrong.

lucernarian

watty wrote: »

You are missing the point.
It's NEVER overkill or wrong to do outside aerial. It's irrelevant if a Loft aerial works. in 10% of locations they are OK, it doesn't make the outdoor wrong.

10% is a dramatic underestimation. What about almost all of Dublin within the M50, much of Cork city and a whole plethora of towns and cities across Ireland? I feel it's not wrong to avoid creating any sort of an eyesore, spend more time and money and leave something exposed to the elements that will always be at higher risk of damage. And for the amount of DIYers on this forum, an outdoor aerial that needs to be installed at roof height will carry a greater safety risk. I've never heard of anyone being injured from sticking their leg through the ceiling in comparison.

Here's something to consider: The Freeview COM broadcasts in NI are going to increase by 14 dB (in the case of Brougher Mountain 17 dB). Those severely underpowered broadcasts already cover about 69% IIRC of the population in NI. When that power is bumped up, that coverage will approach 90%. A large chunk of that 70% could receive reliably with loft aerials once powers are increased.

I do accept that little of what I said would recommend against the use of an outdoor aerial but there are provisos and downsides to outdoor aerials that are real and present. You said that it was "NEVER" overkill but I don't think that stacks up, certainly not for the DIYers and newbies that are often on the forum.

watty

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

10% is a dramatic underestimation. What about almost all of Dublin within the M50, much of Cork city and a whole plethora of towns and cities across Ireland? .

Only rooms with Windows facing Transmitter, and even then only a proportion. I've done tests and measurements.

A ten element yagi or quad "bow tie grid" on Chimney is barely visible at street level, and on streets at right angles to mast, only visible on one side.

A basic aerial can last 30 years outdoors.

An indoor aerial (unless in Attic) is hugely vulnerable to interference and only feeds one TV.

An attic aerial can be OK. But needs about 6dB to 18dB more gain to have same signal level as outdoors, and is more vulnerable to interference (By 3dB to 18dB!). It does work better for digital as the "Ghosting" common to attic aerials isn't so bad for Digital (may improve signal in some cases).

RTE for the first time in 48 years is trying to do a properly engineered TV network, when we include aerials. Hence their message of Properly installed Outdoor Aerials.

What you claim for Inside M50 isn't true.

RTE Installation Recommendation

* Outdoor Aerial. Minimum is 7dB to 10dB wideband,
* CT100 or similar cable minimum
* No-one to sell so-called "Digital Aerials"
* Standard Aerial €120 ... €150 (including Chimney install and running cable)
* Extra points €30 ... €40
* Distribution Amp €25 ... €30
* Alignment/Check callout €50 ... €60
* CATV to avoid Ch61 ... Ch 68
* Saorview certified TVs and Setbox.
* Single tuner PVR if you have a Compatible TV, else a Dual tuner PVR

via http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/rte-presentation

Please don't detract from the "Message" with anecdotal experience that's only true for a minority.


This thread is NOT about how many people might be able to manage with indoor "set-top" aerials or Attic aerials (Min 14dBd recommended) but about debunking aerial myths, the so called "Digital" aerial in particular.

Most indoor aerials are wrongly described, poor design, mostly plastic (which is only to prettify) and grossly overpriced. They are so highly promoted that people will try them anyway, without people here saying they might work.

Vince Cable

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

. . . And for the amount of DIYers on this forum, an outdoor aerial that needs to be installed at roof height will carry a greater safety risk. I've never heard of anyone being injured from sticking their leg through the ceiling in comparison.

Bill Wright would beg to differ http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/articles/whatsat-201007.pdf

Read the 'Elf and Safety bit on page 2;

'I think there are more accidents in lofts than on roofs . . .'

lucernarian

Vince Cable wrote: »

Bill Wright would beg to differ http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/articles/whatsat-201007.pdf

Read the 'Elf and Safety bit on page 2;

Dangerous accidents? As I said, putting your foot through a ceiling and falling off a roof are two very different propositions. I clarified what I meant by roofs being more unsafe in my post already.

lucernarian

I read through the guide. It's quite good though he left out a couple of methods I've used to fix aerials and also at one stage he said that a loft is a "poor" environment to install an aerial when I would have said "highly variable".

I won't say any more about Loft aerials but I want to say that there are many of us who can carry out tests and the reporting of them shouldn't be automatically discredited if they come from any seasoned veteran on here. TV reception is a black art as another well-known rigger, Justin Smith, says.

Also as points of information there are few 14dBd aerials out there and definitely not for Group A. Maybe an antiference XG16? Anyone thinking of spending that amount on a loft aerial should put a small one outside instead if at all possible. A bowtie grid aerial is somewhat visually prominent on a house and has a much higher wind loading than a contract aerial, even if the contract is vertically polarised.

Vince Cable

I just see the aerial as a part of the building, some people's entire houses are eyesores . . .

podgesdad

BTW, I'm combining UPC analogue with aerial DTT using a dirt-cheap splitter behind the TV with absolutely no problems (UPC took their digital box away after I terminated contract but they haven't yet bothered to disconnect the remaining analogue).

I've tried this with splitter but analogue channels unwatchable when DTT connected. Is there a particular type of splitter required?

Thank you

watty

VHF / UHF diplexer.

Antenna

podgesdad wrote: »

I've tried this with splitter but analogue channels unwatchable when DTT connected. Is there a particular type of splitter required?

Thank you

you don't say where you are but
If your DTT source is above UHF Ch37 :
one ot these would do with minimal loss on both ports:
http://www.tvtrade.ie/triax-uhf-diplexer-tfc-3537.html

connect UPC cable To input 1, UHF aerial to input 2.

Antenna

recyclebin wrote: »

Looks like Aldi are havin a laugh. WTF is a HD ready aerial?

This is very common marketing in the USA.
Seems Aldi has brought it across the Atlantic.

watty

It's common now on packaging of almost all more recently re-packaged TV parts.

I've taken example pictures in Homebase, Tesco and others.

Vince Cable

@ 'The-Rigger'; thanking all posts with the word 'rigger' in them isn't funny. (Don't even dream of thanking this one)

Ah well, it's not like I can do anything about it . . .

blues2

a lot of technical info here but the message im getting is this aldi "hd ready aeriel" is a waste of money.
was thinking about putting a 19" lcd on the wall but dont want to drill through for cables and thought this was a good solution since im not too concerned about high quality signal on such a small tv.
if not, does anyone have better suggestion, or is hard wired cable only solution?

david.kriz

hey mates, it's all the same all over the Europe, we in Czech republic and Slovakia can here the same for few years, digital aerials, digital quality, sometimes we can see digital coaxial cabels :-D Digital LNB's and other components are also easy to buy :-D
The tricks of the resellers and the low knowledge of customers about this is same everywhere :-)
Few days ago I have heard for the first time "digital viewer" ! I was absolutely ROFL!

reboot

watty wrote: »

So would a proper aerial costing 1/4 of that. It's a total gimmick and little more effective than 6" of wire on end of coax.

ALL of the One-For-All aerials are very overpriced Marketing department style, Fake snake oil claims and not Engineering.


The DVB-T2 mux are typically running at lower power /data-rate ratio than regular Freeview. There is nothing different about aerials. They give the coverage they are designed for. Obviously outside the coverage area you might need a higher gain aerial than for plain Freeview. It's a red herring to the discussion.

This works here for me at this location.(S.Down Annalong Looking slightly S.East of IOM.(Hope fully not a red herring if you just bought a new TV or STB for HD)
Old aerial which fell off a mans roof and was possibly there for decades.,I think C/D with bits missing.Bow tie.Fringe mast head amp 1223.
Vert pol. at a hight of about 160feet above sea level and clear view out to sea.
Receiving , with no break up of signal,the following channels.
Channel 43 ITV Granada? SD. Winter Hill?/IOM
Channel 46 BBC North ? SD
Channel 50 BBC 1 HD
BBC HD
ITV HD
CH4 HD
Channel 54 RTE HD 3 Rock?
Sony Bravia EX403.
Hope my experience may be of use to anyone in a similar location,who doesnt have to spend too much on "New" aerials.

Peter Rhea

IOM regions are BBC North West & ITV Granada & can be found on the channels you are receiving.
Channel 54 is used by Three Rock & Kippure as SFN.

This site; http://www.ukfree.tv, while maybe not 100% accurate on everything, usually has things like frequencies & regions correct.

reboot

Peter Rhea wrote: »

IOM regions are BBC North West & ITV Granada & can be found on the channels you are receiving.
Channel 54 is used by Three Rock & Kippure as SFN.

This site; http://www.ukfree.tv, while maybe not 100% accurate on everything, usually has things like frequencies & regions correct.

Thanks for the info,three things come to mind.If I point the aerial at IOM,HD channels seem to drop off drastically,point slightly to the east and all is well.
I went the route of chasing the Freeview channels SD,and when the new tele arrived I found I had to rethink again for the HD,and look elsewhere.
Folk like me could save a lot of time by trying to check the transmitters that give them the best HD reception first and save effort in the Freeview HD future plan,remembering we in the North may not expect to see Freeview HD until 2013 I am told.Except for saorview that is.
Finally if I enter my postcode for Dab reception on some of these official sites,I will be told "Forget it",but in fact I have been listening to Dab for over two years in an area where FM reception is very poor due mostly to co-channel.
Anyway all ended well with one old aerial picking up BBC,Ch4,ITV,RTE,all in HD and at least the aerial was free!

You probably have your aerial horizontal?
Vertical would be isle of man
But if you have a stable signal from England then stick with it as it's full uk freeview.
It has to be english as you have ch4 hd and not s4c.

Check the epg for the local news programme.

It could be llandonna anglesea either but then you'd have itv1 wales.

http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=SH583810

mrdtv2010

Reboot:

This is the Isle of Man SFN you are picking up, probably Port St St Mary which is the strongest. Here is the official frequency list for the Granada region which now includes the Isle of Man area.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/transmitternetwork/tools__and__resources/almanac/pdfs/DSOTxDetails_Granda_050111_v6.0.pdf

Peter Rhea

reboot wrote: »

If I point the aerial at IOM,HD channels seem to drop off drastically,point slightly to the east and all is well.

Well, it is a fairly big target! Also as pointed out above, those channels are used by a SFN so you'd probably be picking up contributions from more than one tx.
Plus you said your aerial had pieces missing, so maybe directivity isn't all it could be.

pa990

How about this..
an MPEG4 aerial.. wtf..

this was an ad posted recently in corks evening echo

tmcw

Everyone should text him asking if his aerials are H.264 compliant.

Sam Russell

.... and from where he gets his 150 free channels that are on it!