Pope Benedict Delivers Abortion Message to Pro-Life Leaders

Keylem

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/02/28/pope-benedict-delivers-abortion-message-to-pro-life-leaders/

Donatello

Benedict, in his Saturday remarks at the 27th General Assembly of the Pontifical Academy for Life, also said men should not abandon women at their time of need during a pregnancy.

“It would also be helpful to focus attention on the sometimes-clouded conscience of the children’s fathers, who often abandon pregnant women,” he said.

Indeed. Abortion enables men to shirk real manhood - to 'man up' and protect and nourish his mate and off-spring.

neuro-praxis

I get sick of Christians harping on about these topics. Yes, abortion is wrong. Use your vote to express this. Care for and counsel pregnant people. Be a safe place for people in crisis. Adopt unwanted children ffs.

So the pope said men shouldn't abandon their knocked-up ladies. Well wow, what an insight.

As a Christian woman in Ireland in 2011 where abortion is illegal (in case you hadn't noticed), surely there are more pressing concerns in terms of figuring out what it means to follow Jesus in our culture and sharing His compassionate love with others...

Don't you guys ever get tired of ranting and railing?

Baggio1

neuro um tell that to the 4,000 children murdered per day in the good ol USA and the other poor kids around the world murdered in this way... yeahh theres more than this one topic but i suggest this is the most important coz its literally life or death,, the western powers harp on about gadaffi and human rights etc? dam hypocrites turn a conveniant blind eye to this evil disgusting crime as it suits them no wonder the west is starting to crumble ... God is watching ,,, so the answer is -NO until its stopped we MUST speak up for these kids and not allow the criminals who are involved in it to get away with their evil. rant over .. for now!

neuro-praxis

Baggio1 wrote: »

neuro um tell that to the 4,000 children murdered per day in the good ol USA and the other poor kids around the world murdered in this way... yeahh theres more than this one topic but i suggest this is the most important coz its literally life or death,, the western powers harp on about gadaffi and human rights etc? dam hypocrites turn a conveniant blind eye to this evil disgusting crime as it suits them no wonder the west is starting to crumble ... God is watching ,,, so the answer is -NO until its stopped we MUST speak up for these kids and not allow the criminals who are involved in it to get away with their evil. rant over .. for now!

I am sure that posting up what the pope has said about abortion is going to make a huge difference.

Baggio1

if you are christian and believe in the power of prayer as Christ surely taught welll - why wouldnt it make a difference??. millions of people pray in comunnion with the pope and his writings/ideas etc are a helpful guide in doing the right thing... so yehah it does make a diference...thanx

Slav

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I get sick of Christians harping on about these topics. Yes, abortion is wrong. Use your vote to express this. Care for and counsel pregnant people. Be a safe place for people in crisis. Adopt unwanted children ffs.

So the pope said men shouldn't abandon their knocked-up ladies. Well wow, what an insight.

As a Christian woman in Ireland in 2011 where abortion is illegal (in case you hadn't noticed), surely there are more pressing concerns in terms of figuring out what it means to follow Jesus in our culture and sharing His compassionate love with others...

Very true! If Christianity is about struggling with sin then fighting someone's else sin is definitely the easiest way of doing that. And among all the possible ways to fight that someone's else sin ranting is by far the most exciting and the least expensive.

Not saying that public figures, like Pope Benedict, should be silent on abortion however the amount of not-so-public people who are not directly involved with this issue but who still keep talking about it more then anything else - that looks a bit strange and it does not send the right message to the world. Not preaching the gospel to be exact.

neuro-praxis

Baggio1 wrote: »

if you are christian and believe in the power of prayer as Christ surely taught welll - why wouldnt it make a difference??. millions of people pray in comunnion with the pope and his writings/ideas etc are a helpful guide in doing the right thing... so yehah it does make a diference...thanx

Sorry, I hadn't realised that posting a link in a Christian forum where everyone agrees with you about a contentious topic was prayer.

Ash.J.Williams

Donatello wrote: »

Indeed. Abortion enables men to shirk real manhood - to 'man up' and protect and nourish his mate and off-spring.

Interesting as most men I know affected by abortion had no say on the matter.

Donatello

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Interesting as most men I know affected by abortion had no say on the matter.

Well there are two kinds of men I suppose in that situation: those who see abortion as a quick fix, and those who object to abortion but, as you say, have no say in the matter. I'm surprised this hasn't come up in court because the unborn shares half the genes of the father - it's his kid too yet the woman has all the say in the decision to kill the child. The father should have an irrevocable veto. Of course, we shouldn't tolerate any abortion, but a father's veto law might be a good way to radically cut the number of abortions in those countries where it is currently legal. If the father says no, the woman cannot kill her child.

This might be a stepping stone to a total ban on abortion in countries like UK and USA.

Keylem

You might find this interesting!

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/03/fetuses_to_be_presented_as_wit.html

Helix

is it not a bit odd that the vatican puts more effort into stopping people from having a choice with regards to abortion than it did into stopping child abuse?

Keylem

Helix wrote: »

is it not a bit odd that the vatican puts more effort into stopping people from having a choice with regards to abortion than it did into stopping child abuse?

It's a child not a choice! Abuse and it's coverups were wrong. (Not the topic here) On the other hand murder of the innocent is entirely different and not in the same league.

It's not just the Vatican thats making an effort to end the slaughter, much of the general Joe Public finds it despicable also!

MrPudding

Donatello wrote: »

The father should have an irrevocable veto. Of course, we shouldn't tolerate any abortion, but a father's veto law might be a good way to radically cut the number of abortions in those countries where it is currently legal. If the father says no, the woman cannot kill her child.

Yes. That would be excellent. It could lead to some really hilarious court room scenes where a rapist prevents his victim from aborting the child she is carrying as a result of his rape. Awesome.

Donatello wrote: »

This might be a stepping stone to a total ban on abortion in countries like UK and USA.

Dream on. Not going to happen.

MrP

Seaneh

MrPudding wrote: »

Yes. That would be excellent. It could lead to some really hilarious court room scenes where a rapist prevents his victim from aborting the child she is carrying as a result of his rape. Awesome.

This might be a stepping stone to a total ban on abortion in countries like UK and USA.

Dream on. Not going to happen.

MrP[/QUOTE]

MrPudding

MrPudding wrote: »

Yes. That would be excellent. It could lead to some really hilarious court room scenes where a rapist prevents his victim from aborting the child she is carrying as a result of his rape. Awesome.


MrP

Wasn't that the x case?

Seaneh

MrPudding wrote: »

Yes. That would be excellent. It could lead to some really hilarious court room scenes where a rapist prevents his victim from aborting the child she is carrying as a result of his rape. Awesome.

This might be a stepping stone to a total ban on abortion in countries like UK and USA.
Dream on. Not going to happen.

MrP

do you have any idea how tiny the percentage of abortions carried out are in cases where impregnation is caused by rape?

It's minuscule.
I'm not trying to excuse rape or say its not an issue but on the list of reasons why abortions are carried out its damned near the bottom of the pile.


How about where the mothers life is in danger?


Nope, near the bottom percentiles again.

There two arguments are thrown around all the time when in reality they are almost non-issues. And even if they were massive issues they could be legislated for specifically. I don't feel they should but they could be.


then you have things like the fake statistics used in roe v wade of 4000 + women in the us dying during attempted abortions in the US in the years before it was legalized.
This number was invented. The actual numbers are between 30 and 60 women in the 2 years before abortion was legalized in the US dying as a result of attempted abortions.

Ghost Buster

Seaneh wrote: »

Dream on. Not going to happen.

MrP

do you have any idea how tiny the percentage of abortions carried out are in cases where impregnation is caused by rape?

It's minuscule.
I'm not trying to excuse rape or say its not an issue but on the list of reasons why abortions are carried out its damned near the bottom of the pile.


How about where the mothers life is in danger?


Nope, near the bottom percentiles again.

There two arguments are thrown around all the time when in reality they are almost non-issues. And even if they were massive issues they could be legislated for specifically. I don't feel they should but they could be.


then you have things like the fake statistics used in roe v wade of 4000 + women in the us dying during attempted abortions in the US in the years before it was legalized.
This number was invented. The actual numbers are between 30 and 60 women in the 2 years before abortion was legalized in the US dying as a result of attempted abortions.[/QUOTE]
Except for those who find them selves in this situation.
Abortion on demand or as a form of contraception is utterly wrong but hey ho since Rome is also opposed to contraception thay have a wee bit of a nerve and are more than a little hypocritical in sticking their nose into this issue.

Helix

Keylem wrote: »

It's a child not a choice! Abuse and it's coverups were wrong. (Not the topic here) On the other hand murder of the innocent is entirely different and not in the same league.

It's not just the Vatican thats making an effort to end the slaughter, much of the general Joe Public finds it despicable also!

youre saying the abortion of a foetus is worse than the brutal sexual and mental abuse of a child?

nature aborts more foetuses naturally than man ever could (15-20% of all pregnancies will miscarry). isnt that god's doing then? is god the world's greatest serial aborter?

Keylem

Helix wrote: »

youre saying the abortion of a foetus is worse than the brutal sexual and mental abuse of a child?

nature aborts more foetuses naturally than man ever could (15-20% of all pregnancies will miscarry). isnt that god's doing then? is god the world's greatest serial aborter?

Nature aborts many foetuses that may have NO hope of being carried to term due to underlying medical issues, such as smoking, disease, etc. whereas abortion in most cases is the wilful murder of a healthy foetus!

http://www.preconception.com/expertqa/miscarriage/what-is-the-most-common-cause-of-miscarriage-5266

Helix

Keylem wrote: »

Nature aborts many foetuses that may have NO hope of being carried to term due to underlying medical issues, whereas abortion in most cases is the wilful murder of a healthy foetus!

how do you know that the foetuses are healthy in all these cases though? know anyone whos ever taken the morning after pill? that's technically abortion too

Keylem

Helix wrote: »

how do you know that the foetuses are healthy in all these cases though? know anyone whos ever taken the morning after pill? that's technically abortion too

I personally don't know of anyone who had an abortion or took the morning after pill, I guess I'm from a different age group!

Ghost Buster

Keylem wrote: »

Nature aborts many foetuses that may have NO hope of being carried to term due to underlying medical issues, such as smoking, disease, etc. whereas abortion in most cases is the wilful murder of a healthy foetus!

http://www.preconception.com/expertqa/miscarriage/what-is-the-most-common-cause-of-miscarriage-5266

Stop saying murder. It is a legal term and so not applicable here. I know you use it for effect but it is an untruth.

Wolfe Tone

bluewolf wrote: »

Wasn't that the x case?

No, the AG prevented the girl from travelling.

Keylem

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Stop saying murder. It is a legal term and so not applicable here. I know you use it for effect but it is an untruth.

Legal is one thing Truth is another! I can say murder if I choose to - free speech, you don't have to like it!

Scientific Proof that abortion is murder!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1438650209318047799#

Wolfe Tone

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

No, the AG prevented the girl from travelling.

The what sorry?
Wasn't it the rapist who brought the case? or was that another unnamed case?

Keylem wrote: »

Legal is one thing Truth is another! I can say murder if I choose to - free speech, you don't have to like it!

I guess by the same token I could call you childish

Helix

Keylem wrote: »

I personally don't know of anyone who had an abortion or took the morning after pill, I guess I'm from a different age group!

i personlly dont know anyone whos had an abortion, but the MAP common

Helix

Keylem wrote: »

Legal is one thing Truth is another! I can say murder if I choose to - free speech, you don't have to like it!

funny that youd be so willing to respect something like free speech yet completely against freedom of choice

oh hypocracy, thy name is religion

Keylem

Helix wrote: »

funny that youd be so willing to respect something like free speech yet completely against freedom of choice

oh hypocracy, thy name is religion

Free to choose to murder is a free choice isn't it!! It don't make it right!!

It is my choice to speak for the unborn, who has no choice, and religion has nothing to do with it!

Helix

Keylem wrote: »

Free to choose to murder is a free choice isn't it!! It don't make it right!!

It is my choice to speak for the unborn, who has no choice, and religion has nothing to do with it!

its not murder though is it

arent you the one who said aborting a foetus is far worse than systematic child sexual abuse too?

Keylem

Helix wrote: »

its not murder though is it

arent you the one who said aborting a foetus is far worse than systematic child sexual abuse too?

See the the link to Scientific Proof that abortion is murder in my previous post.

I said both were bad, but in my opinion abortion was worse!

Wolfe Tone

bluewolf wrote: »

The what sorry?
Wasn't it the rapist who brought the case? or was that another unnamed case?

From memory the father asked the Gardaí if DNA evidence from the aborted fetus would be admissible (rapist was denying it) and said that he was going to get her an abortion. The Attorney General(basically the Govts barrister) at the time, a Mr Whelehan I believe, heard about this and went to the HC and got an injunction to prevent the abortion citing article 40.3.3 of Bunreacht na hEireann(right to life of the unborn), the injunction was granted, on appeal to the SC it was overturned by a majority(4 to 1 I think)


The rapist wasnt involved at all.

Keylem

Not all who are against abortion are religious, there are plenty of atheists/agnostics who are pro-life!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=69532637639

Helix

Keylem wrote: »

See the the link to Scientific Proof that abortion is murder in my previous post.

I said both were bad, but in my opinion abortion was worse!

tell me, what other things do you selectively use "scientific proof" for, whilst discounting science in ways that dont suit you?

for the record, thats not scientific proof, its shambolic hyperbole

Wolfe Tone

Keylem wrote: »

Not all who are against abortion are religious, there are plenty of atheists/agnostics who are pro-life!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=69532637639

I wouldnt be religious myself but I am against it, for a multitude of reasons.

Keylem

Helix wrote: »

tell me, what other things do you selectively use "scientific proof" for, whilst discounting science in ways that dont suit you?

for the record, thats not scientific proof, its shambolic hyperbole

Is it because it doesn't suit you that it's shambolic hyerbole?

drkpower

Keylem wrote: »

See the the link to Scientific Proof that abortion is murder in my previous post.

As 'murder' is a legal term, scientific proof is pointless.

But I guess you can call it what you like, as long as you arent aiming for accuracy.

Helix

Keylem wrote: »

Is it because it doesn't suit you that it's shambolic hyerbole?

see post above

Keylem

Murder is not only a 'legal' term, it's also a word in the dictionary that means to kill intentionally with premeditation! I'm not talking about legal terms for abortion, I'm discussing moral terms, to many people it's morally wrong whether your atheist or religious!

drkpower

Keylem wrote: »

Murder is not only a 'legal' term, it's also a word in the dictionary that means to kill intentionally with premeditation!

You forgot 'unlawfully'...

Surprise surprise:D

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/murder

Keylem

Helix wrote: »

see post above

See reply above!

Wolfe Tone

Just say kill if we are going to be pedantic.

old hippy

I remember when a friend told me years later that she had aborted. I was more upset that she couldn't have told me at the time. I would have gone with her decision; whatever it was. That's the kind of support that's needed; not hysteria, placard waving or someone who lives in obscene wealth in Rome.

Keylem

drkpower wrote: »

You forgot 'unlawfully'...

Surprise surprise:D

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/murder

See my previous post, I'm not talking about legal, I'm talking morals.

This is a Christianity forum!

MrPudding

Keylem wrote: »

See my previous post, I'm not talking about legal, I'm talking morals.

Doesn't matter, it is still a legal term. Similar to the other poster that tried to say abortion was rape.

MrP

Wolfe Tone

One of the objections that I have to abortion is the lack of input the father has.

drkpower

Keylem wrote: »

See my previous post, I'm not talking about legal, I'm talking morals.

And if you see my previous post, you might see that I am simply stating that murder is a legal term, therefore your use of it is incorrect.

But you can call it whatever you like; some of us are simply pointing out your error. You should thank us and move on.

MrPudding

Keylem wrote: »

This is a Christianity forum!

OK. What is the relevance of that. Oh wait, I got it. Is it something to do with being able to ignore facts?

MrP

Keylem

drkpower wrote: »

You forgot 'unlawfully'...

Surprise surprise:D

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/murder

Most people would view an unborn baby as a person, who has all the human characteristics as the parent!

drkpower

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

One of the objections that I have to abortion is the lack of input the father has.

How would that work?

If abortion were legal, how would practically facilitate the input of the father? Would it not amount to a paternal veto? Or is that what you favour?

jhegarty

drkpower wrote: »

You forgot 'unlawfully'...

Surprise surprise:D

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/murder

But we live in Ireland , where it is unlawful.