Gender based discrimination on car insurance now illegal!

HellFireClub

Cheap insurance for women faces axe
(UKPA) – 2 hours ago
European judges are set to rule in a landmark legal case which could outlaw the setting of insurance premiums on the basis of differences between men and women.
The case was brought by the Belgian consumers' association, challenging the use of statistics based on gender - an established measure of risk for car insurance, private medical insurance and pension schemes.
If the judges back the case, female drivers under 26 in the UK could face a 25% rise in car insurance rates, with a fall in male rates of about 10%, according to the Association of British Insurers.
Basing insurance rates on statistics about the differing life expectancies or road accident records of men and women is standard practice across Europe. It has been specifically permitted since 2004 in EU equal treatment rules, "if sex is a determining risk factor ... substantiated by relevant and accurate actuarial and statistical data".
But an Advocate-General at the European Court of Justice has advised the judges to overturn that provision, arguing that "higher-ranking" equality provisions set out in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the Lisbon Treaty must now apply.
On the eve of the verdict, Conservative leader in the European Parliament Martin Callanan said: "The last Labour government is to blame for this. By signing us up to the Charter of Fundamental Rights in the Lisbon Treaty they have opened the floodgates to nonsense court rulings like this one. Yet again we are paying dearly for the utter mess bequeathed to us by the last Labour government.
"Had Labour given us the referendum on Lisbon that they promised, women would almost certainly not be facing devastating hikes in already sky-high motoring bills."
Labour MEP Arlene McCarthy commented: "Insurance is based on assessment of risk, and gender has always been a factor applied in that calculation. The European Court needs to apply common sense. There could be huge knock on effects for the industry if insurers were no longer allowed to differentiate between men and women affecting many products."
Open Europe, the think-tank campaigning for EU reforms, says a verdict scrapping differentials would oblige UK insurance providers to raise an estimated extra £936 million to cover themselves against "new uncertainties" created in the market.
The organisation estimated the move would cost young women drivers between 17-26 an average extra £4,300 more - with an actual saving of £3,250 for men over the same age period. In a "worst case scenario", women drivers' cumulative insurance costs could be as much as £9,300, said the organisation.
Copyright © 2011 The Press Association. All rights reserved.

Haha, fu*k your rip off insurance I've a c*ck inside!

Kasabian

Good for you.

chin_grin

HellFireClub wrote: »

Haha, fu*k your rip off insurance I've a c*ck inside!

<points> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

HellFireClub

No source available on the web yet, just heard it as breaking news on 98fm...

folan

If true, this points to bad news for women drivers, who are about to see premiums go up.

chin_grin

HellFireClub wrote: »

No source available on the web yet, just heard it as breaking news on 98fm...

You sure it's not their breakfast show? One of these funny funny ha ha things that the radio stations do now? You know so you don't knife every f*cker that looks at you c*ck-eyed in the a.m. before you get a caffeine buzz on.

HellFireClub

folan wrote: »

If true, this points to bad news for women drivers, who are about to see premiums go up.

Proper order, sure they cause most of the accidents anyway...

HellFireClub

chin_grin wrote: »

You sure it's not their breakfast show? One of these funny funny ha ha things that the radio stations do now? You know so you don't knife every f*cker that looks at you c*ck-eyed in the a.m. before you get a caffeine buzz on.

No it was the proper newsdesk at 9 O' clock....

chin_grin

HellFireClub wrote: »

Proper order, sure they cause most of the accidents anyway...

.............while we're on the subject of stereotyping. What's with those racist taxi drivers?

Pompey Magnus

Link

Cheap insurance for women faces axe
(UKPA) – 2 hours ago
European judges are set to rule in a landmark legal case which could outlaw the setting of insurance premiums on the basis of differences between men and women.
The case was brought by the Belgian consumers' association, challenging the use of statistics based on gender - an established measure of risk for car insurance, private medical insurance and pension schemes.
If the judges back the case, female drivers under 26 in the UK could face a 25% rise in car insurance rates, with a fall in male rates of about 10%, according to the Association of British Insurers.
Basing insurance rates on statistics about the differing life expectancies or road accident records of men and women is standard practice across Europe. It has been specifically permitted since 2004 in EU equal treatment rules, "if sex is a determining risk factor ... substantiated by relevant and accurate actuarial and statistical data".
But an Advocate-General at the European Court of Justice has advised the judges to overturn that provision, arguing that "higher-ranking" equality provisions set out in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the Lisbon Treaty must now apply.
On the eve of the verdict, Conservative leader in the European Parliament Martin Callanan said: "The last Labour government is to blame for this. By signing us up to the Charter of Fundamental Rights in the Lisbon Treaty they have opened the floodgates to nonsense court rulings like this one. Yet again we are paying dearly for the utter mess bequeathed to us by the last Labour government.
"Had Labour given us the referendum on Lisbon that they promised, women would almost certainly not be facing devastating hikes in already sky-high motoring bills."
Labour MEP Arlene McCarthy commented: "Insurance is based on assessment of risk, and gender has always been a factor applied in that calculation. The European Court needs to apply common sense. There could be huge knock on effects for the industry if insurers were no longer allowed to differentiate between men and women affecting many products."
Open Europe, the think-tank campaigning for EU reforms, says a verdict scrapping differentials would oblige UK insurance providers to raise an estimated extra £936 million to cover themselves against "new uncertainties" created in the market.
The organisation estimated the move would cost young women drivers between 17-26 an average extra £4,300 more - with an actual saving of £3,250 for men over the same age period. In a "worst case scenario", women drivers' cumulative insurance costs could be as much as £9,300, said the organisation.
Copyright © 2011 The Press Association. All rights reserved.

Kasabian

Outcome. Women will pay more for insurance.

/thread.

Johnny Bitte

folan wrote: »

If true, this points to bad news for women drivers, who are about to see premiums go up.

Thats exactly what the ****ers will do.

Vicxas

About time, i better cancel that sex change...

pickarooney

I'm looking forward to hearing from men cheering the fact they'll now be paying more towards their wives' insurance premiums.

Even if it doesn't go down for men, I'm delighted women will have to pay more to do their make up on the way to work.

Pauleta

Its a fine day for feminists. They have finally got equality

folan

HellFireClub wrote: »

Proper order, sure they cause most of the accidents anyway...

perhaps, though i doubt that.
1) Females drive less than males (on average)
2) Females making claims is a much lower number. Since they are driving less, theres less chance of them getting into a crash.

however, if you mean bad female drivers cause good male drivers to do stupid things and get into a crash, then i think you should rethink.

Now bad female drivers further infuriating bad drivers (of both sexes) and thus causeing more collisions..........same goes for bad male drivers.

its horrible being a guy and paying more insurance just because theres too many bad male drivers out there. though now girls will feel that pinch too.

HellFireClub

Kasabian wrote: »

Outcome. Women will pay more for insurance.

/thread.

Yeah but hearing them come on here and try to justify the unjustifable will be gas! The same women who want gender equality in the Dail, let's see how happy they will be to welcome in equality on gender for car insurance.

If I've been driving for 15 years and have an accident free record, I fail to see how I can represent a higher risk than a woman with an comparable driving record. Motor insurance companies have a lot to answer for in this country I think, I remember the day where I'd be getting quotes for driving a car that were twice the value of the car I was driving, for ONE YEAR THIRD PARTY ONLY COVER!

Don't think that this kind of sick profit gouging by Irish insurance companies didn't seriously impact on men's ability to get themselves mobile and create jobs for themselves, get van insurance, etc...

Cuddlesworth

I would have no problem keeping the sex as a determining risk factor if medical insurance could also do it.

spurious

While they're at it, why should we pay more than other countries in the EU for insurance, male or female, just because we live in Ireland?

Let's keep going with the 'equality', even when it costs the insurance companies money and not the customers.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

folan wrote: »

perhaps, though i doubt that.
1) Females drive less than males (on average)
2) Females making claims is a much lower number. Since they are driving less, theres less chance of them getting into a crash.

however, if you mean bad female drivers cause good male drivers to do stupid things and get into a crash, then i think you should rethink.

Now bad female drivers further infuriating bad drivers (of both sexes) and thus causeing more collisions..........same goes for bad male drivers.

its horrible being a guy and paying more insurance just because theres too many bad male drivers out there. though now girls will feel that pinch too.

Kinda reads like women are suddenly causing more accidents then men causing less. Will be interesting to see how the insurance companies react. Some women are going to cry "why is my insurance being hiked up when I've had no accidents in 8 years" and rightfully so. Wonder how the insurance companies will react to that? More likely, the discrencies will meet in the middle, I would assume.

Other note, I can only see that thius MIGHT happen, rather than it will.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cheaper-insurance-for-women-under-threat-495528.html
Anything more concrete?

Robxxx7

Perhaps the EU should do the right thing and force the insurance companies to lower the rates for men rather than increase womens premiums to bring it more in line ... otherwise its a case of more profiteering for the insurance industry.

I applaud the EU's stance here but its just another excuse for the rip off insurance companies to to realign insurance premiums in there favour

folan

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Kinda reads like women are suddenly causing more accidents then men causing less.

not intentionally.

hal9000

What ever happens, whoever gets higher or lower premimums, you can be damn sure the only real winner will be the insurance companies.

HellFireClub

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Other note, I can only see that thius MIGHT happen, rather than it will.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cheaper-insurance-for-women-under-threat-495528.html
Anything more concrete?

It's breaking news on the radio that a judgement has been delivered, hasn't turned up on the news sites as a story yet...

yawnstretch

About fcking time.

Equality my ass. Women want it every bloody way and I've had enough.

RedXIV

Just so I'm getting this right, so as a couple, i wonder if the raise in female premiums match the lowering of male premiums? Because if it just costs more money than we're already spending, I really hope it doesn't happen. Things are tight enough already

Spacedog

Now For FBD to stop descriminating against people who live in postal codes Dublin 22 and 24.

All insurance companies should be forced to publish their underwriting guidelines by THE FINANCIAL REGULATOR whose job it is to over see banks and insurance services.

phill106

HellFireClub wrote: »

Haha, fu*k your rip off insurance I've a c*ck inside!

Inside? Where? Whose is it?


Mine is firmly fixed to the outside of my body


Though delighted with this, been giving out about it for years, particularly when the politicians were boohooing about risk equalization for health insurance, saying it was illegal etc when at the same time every other ad on the telly was for cheaper car insurance for women!

HellFireClub

These parasitic companies have cost this country more jobs and employment potential over the last 15 years with their bullsh*t makey uppy rules that were pitched against anyone who wanted to get up off their arse and create a job.

I've a mate who has a transport business, he had a claim against one of his drivers a few years back which went to court and he won his case, completely vindicated and was awarded his costs, his premium was loaded hugely for being a party to a claim which he had to declare, while the case was in court for two years.

Do you think he got refunded the huge loading that he had to pay up for a number of years, (because he couldn't change insurance company while he had a claim pending against him as no other company would touch him)?!?!?!?

These guys are the vampires of innovation and entrepreneurship to this country, they are like an extention of the public sector, in terms of their petty rules, their "for the file" attitude and their allergy to sensible business practices which accommodate rather than demolish enterprise and trade growth...

HellFireClub

phill106 wrote: »

Inside?

My trousers...

phill106 wrote: »

Where?

See above...

phill106 wrote: »

Whose is it?

I think it's mine!

up for anything

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm looking forward to hearing from men cheering the fact they'll now be paying more towards their wives' insurance premiums.

Like insurance it must be an age thing.

yawnstretch wrote: »

Women want it every bloody way and I've had enough.

Well that's the last time I ask you to try a different position! You're not great in bed anyhow.

HellFireClub

European judges rewrote the rule book for insurance companies today by banning risk assessment based on gender.

Using differences between men and women as a risk factor in setting premiums for car and medical insurance and pension schemes breaches EU rules on equality, declared the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg.

The verdict – which applies from December 21, 2012 – will force changes in the current standard practice across Europe of basing insurance rates on statistics about differing life expectancies or road accident records of the sexes.

It was immediately condemned as “utter madness” and a “setback for common sense” by Conservative MEP Sajjad Karim.

The Association of British Insurers estimates that the decision will actually reinforce price discrimination, with women drivers under 26 in Ireland facing a 25% rise in car insurance rates, with a 10% drop in rates for fall for men.

Until now, discrimination in setting insurance rates has been explicitly permitted under EU equal treatment rules, “if sex is a determining risk factor... substantiated by relevant and accurate actuarial and statistical data”.

But today the judges followed advice from the court’s Advocate-General that “higher-ranking” equality provisions set out in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the Lisbon Treaty must now apply.

Insurance companies can carry on discriminating between the sexes until December next year – the time when current EU equality rules are due to be reviewed.

The delay will also give insurance companies and risk assessors time to change the template for risk assessment by ignoring traditional statistical gender-based evidence.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/womens-lower-insurance-premiums-ruled-unfair-495535.html#ixzz1FL5latxF

Run_to_da_hills

folan wrote: »

If true, this points to bad news for women drivers, who are about to see premiums go up.

Bad news to everyone.

The fcukers will only pass on their loss across the board. :mad:

Any excuse to bump up premiums.

HellFireClub

I take it that it's not a good day for those behind the desk at Sheila's Wheels! :D:D:D

Jimmy the Wheel

It doesn't make a lot of sense.

If women as a group crash less, they should pay less for their insurance.

It just sounds like a case of the European courts going a bit PC.

HellFireClub

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

It doesn't make a lot of sense.

If women as a group crash less, they should pay less for their insurance.

It just sounds like a case of the European courts going a bit PC.

And what if they are statisically more likely to get pregnant more than men, should they not pay higher health insurance???

Jagle

HellFireClub wrote: »

And what if they are statisically more likely to get pregnant more than men, should they not pay higher health insurance???

very good point

Jimmy the Wheel

HellFireClub wrote: »

And what if they are statisically more likely to get pregnant more than men, should they not pay higher health insurance???

Straw man. Forget about that one.

If you're a man aged 18 to 24 or whatever it is, you're more likely to crash. Therefore you pay more insurance.

If you live in a certain area, your car is more likely to be robbed. You pay more insurance.

If it can be statistically proven that women crash less than men, n whatever age group, then why shouldn't they pay less insurance?

pickarooney

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

If you're a man aged 18 to 24 or whatever it is, you're more likely to crash. Therefore you pay more insurance.

Not if you drive sensibly

Jagle

have you been a young male looking for insurance on a car? absolutely crazy prices while women get away with insanely low costs, its crazy because gender isnt a factor in crashes, i dont care what statistics they throw at you to justify the costs

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

Straw man. Forget about that one.

If you're a man aged 18 to 24 or whatever it is, you're more likely to crash. Therefore you pay more insurance.

If you live in a certain area, your car is more likely to be robbed. You pay more insurance.

If it can be statistically proven that women crash less than men, n whatever age group, then why shouldn't they pay less insurance?

HellFireClub

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

Straw man. Forget about that one.

If you're a man aged 18 to 24 or whatever it is, you're more likely to crash. Therefore you pay more insurance.

If you live in a certain area, your car is more likely to be robbed. You pay more insurance.

If it can be statistically proven that women crash less than men, n whatever age group, then why shouldn't they pay less insurance?

It can be statistically assumed, never mind proven, that women get pregnant more than men, so as per you're logic above, why do they not pay more in health insurance to be covered for medical procedures that clearly will never be required for males???

Jimmy the Wheel

pickarooney wrote: »

Not if you drive sensibly

To difficult to actuariate, or whatever the word may be, the care that individual drivers might take.

Run_to_da_hills

Woman drivers can now thank those that voted yes for Lisbon for this.

Jimmy the Wheel

HellFireClub wrote: »

It can be statistically assumed, never mind proven, that women get pregnant more than men, so as per you're logic above, why do they not pay more in health insurance to be covered for medical procedures that clearly will never be required for males???

Have your straw man argument with someone else. Thanks.

TwoShedsJackson

HellFireClub wrote: »

And what if they are statisically more likely to get pregnant more than men, should they not pay higher health insurance???

Women do pay higher health insurance generally, as they have a longer life expectancy.

sophia25

HellFireClub wrote: »

And what if they are statisically more likely to get pregnant more than men, should they not pay higher health insurance???

I was actually waiting for someone to say something as ridiculous as that. So firstly maternity cover should be seen as the right of every human being to be delivered safely and provided with the right care, male babies are equally as dependent on this as females. And secondly......... statistically a male sperm and a female egg are responsible for each pregnancy!

HellFireClub

Jesus I remember quotes of 6K-8K when I started driving in my early 20's, on the FALSE assumption that I was an unsafe driver. Do you think I've any hope of a refund now, years later when I've never been involved in an accident??? And my insurance is still higher than a woman of comparable age, after nearly 20 years of safe driving, boll*x is the only word for it...

Squirm

I don't see as being remotely discriminatory to investigate who is more likely to be in an accident and set premiums accordingly. Men are more likely to cause an accident, so they pay more. Drive safer- pay less. Women will still benefit from their no-claims bonus' and the fact that they generally have longer periods claim free, but it is ridiculous to suggest that it is sexist in some way to charge a person less if they're less likely to crash......is that not what actuaries are for?! It's not like a group on man-hating feminists set the trend! A lot of men out there are on their partner's insurance as a named driver, to save money... this will effect many more people than the 'women putting their make-up on on their way to work'.

Re; women paying more for health insurance. Pregnancy care is only one aspect of health insurance. Men are more likely to make a health insurance claim also. Due to personal injury, sports injury and due to illness. Men generally demonsrate a poorer state of health as they age also. So it more than negates prenatal care warranting higher health insurance premiums for women.

NTMK

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

Straw man. Forget about that one.

If you're a man aged 18 to 24 or whatever it is, you're more likely to crash. Therefore you pay more insurance.

If it can be statistically proven that women crash less than men, n whatever age group, then why shouldn't they pay less insurance?

I know more girls that have crashed than lads

i'm 21 ive never crashed because i dont drive like an idiot so why should i have to pay nearly €800 more than a girl the same age as me

Jagle

way to avoid debate because someone had a valid point to make

Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »

Have your straw man argument with someone else. Thanks.