kidney must go

thebaz

Following yesterdays dismal performance , I think the time is right to get a new coach to bring us to the World cup. The selections continue to baffle, whether its Ross, Hayes, Cullen, O'Callaghan, O'Leary, McFadden - but more importantly there seams little harmony within the team and a game plan that seams antiquated for the players we have.

This is the last chance for O'Connell, D'Arcy, BOD , O'Callaghan in a World Cup, we need someone with fresh ideas to propel us to a WC we can be proud of, not just scraping victories against the likes of Scotland and Italy - we are regressing as a national rugby team, and frankly boring to watch .... i know it wont happen , but how refreshing it would be to see someone with new ideas lead us forward .. anyway , I'll just yawn my way though another couple of years of Deccies lucky reign , but i feal sorry for the senior players - BOD , Heaslip , wont have a special one to lead them to a special WC

Risteard

The match yesterday was hardly down to Kidney. We scored three tries to nil. the only reason Scotland were in the game is due to completely idiotic penalties given away. Players must cop some flak for that.

Is it Kidney's fault that Heaslip was dragging players into the ruck?
Is it his fault that players were not rolling away or handling the ball in the ruck?

I thin it's about time that players took responsibilites for their own mistakes on the field. A lot of the penalties came from players who would be starting anyway. Healy,Ross, Heaslip, POC.

Tim Robbins

I think being a manager is a bit being like a ref, you are subject to more criticism than praise.

Some things aren't easy for Kidney. He has some very good players; but they are very good players in certain styles of rugby. It is not easy blending them.

We all bring our own bias. I don't like the kicking game. Others don't mind it. Kidney has always favoured the kicking / territory / percentages game. So I am probably always going to be a bit harsh on him.

MCD.

Oh for christ sake.

Assuming your argument is valid, the likelihood of us changing coach (and presumably entire coaching staff) a mere months before the world cup is ridiculous.

There is no denying that we have had a poor run of form, but come on, if a replacement was to be brought in after the 6 nations would it really be that much different considering that he would only have what left of the provincial season and a few warm ups to go by???

Ill point out that I don't think he should go, I think kidney has earned the right to have a go at a world cup.

thebaz

the style of rugby we are playing at the moment is awfull - for the quality of players we have - can you imagine yesterday if TOL was at SH - i just think we are not utilising the players available to the full , and are plain boring to watch - i dont see any overall gameplan in place for a good WC - just think its a shame this been the last time BOD, POC will grace a WC

JFB3

Hi Baz,

in reply to your redcent post I think it is asfe to say that there is a serious and growing issue within Irish Rugby. It maybe the case that as a result of the negativity currently running through Irish life that this is now spilling over into the sporting arena.

Yes it is true that the Irish rugby team is not performing to the maximum at the moment but to lay blame fully at the doors of the coacing and management team is I believe completley wrong. It is not Declan Kidney who is missing tackles, and giiving away silly penalties it is the players that are not stepping up to the mark and delivering.

More worryingly for all Irish supporters is the lack of respect for fellow player beginning to creep into the team enviornment as evidenced by Jamie Heaslips comments this last week that for my money should be stampded out at source.

As to you your comments on team selection everyone of them seem to me to be logical and sensable given the lack of debth in certain areas of the squad. the reality is that players such as Fitzgerald, Darcy,O Leary and Sexton have not performed at an International level thus far this season. For me the coaching ticket are in many ways being to loyal and need to wield the axe far more over the next two games.

As to Heaslip any team memeber that openly questions and encourages decent no matter how good a player should be told he is not playing for the next game and told the reason why. His comments were nieve and best and say's more about Jamies sense of self than his sense of collective team spirit and awareness. He is a fantastic player but nothing should excuse his comments this week.

And finally as to Declan Kidney a small bit of faith in a man who has lead teams to an under 21 world cup final and grand slam, a six nations grand slam and two Heineken Cup trophys would not go amis.

Risteard

We're playing a decent brand of rugby it's just that mistakes like knock-ons, ridiculous penalites, and sometimes just not taking the right option is killing us. After a poor start against Italy, which was down to mistakes there could have been plenty of tries. 3 tries against France, 3 against Scotland, and the only reason we lost the former and almost the latter was because of the penalties we gave away.

I hope that people aren't expecting us to throw the ball around like the All Blacks or Australia, because no matter how good people think our players are, they're not suited or capable IMO of pulling off that type of game.

Our backs haven't been firing on all cylinders but backs coaching isn't Kidney's responsibility.

EDIT: And say did Kidney leave after the 6 Nations, do you think 3 warm up games would be enough to implement an entirely new and spectacular gameplan with no hiccups or mistakes whatsoever before the WC?

bamboozle

I've no problem with Kidney continuing until the world cup is finished. However having been a fan of his i find i rate him far less now, for a few reasons: he hasnt been making the hard calls in selection, SOB and Ross should have had a lot more game time in the nov internationals, DOC and TOL are starting games they have no right to start, the international game of rugby has changed over the last few years and i'm worried Kidney is still content to play the same style of rugby he always has. Despite what some people are saying i dont think are backs are receiving much attacking ball, considerably less than previous seasons & the quality of ball received from scrum half has been dreadful under TOL, this policy of kicking to the corner and focusing on lineout is suspect as our lineout has not been functioning well plus it plays into the hands of teams like scotland.

In Earls, Bowe and Fitz we have 3 quality broken field runners yet i can only recall Earls receiving an attacking pass yesterday.

JFB3

Hi guys,

of far greater concern to me is the rift that I have seen appearing within the camp over the last 10 days. No question in my mind that all is not well with the players and the old Leinster/Munster thing is raising its head again after a long absense.

Coaching and Playing staff need to sort this out quickly as collectivly they are not acting as a cohesive unit both on and off the field.

I choose to have faith that both the players and the coaching ticket are too expierienced and too good not to get this sorted and further I belive that the next two games provide a great opportunity to deliver performances regardless of who is wearing the jersey.

What is require from media and us supporters at this point is also a bit of belief!

TheRevolution

He should have gone before the 6N. Its too late to change now and its a shame that our best generation had their world cup chances squandered by two very poor coaches. Kidney won our first Grand Slam in 60 years but that is largely down to the fact that it is only in the last few years that we had a team that should have won it. That we didn't is a reflection of a previously poor manager and not of Kidney being an excellent manager. He won coach of the year for his accomplishments and the added bonus of beating a misfiring South Africa side but even in 2009 you could see the Irish team were winning playing very poorly. Kidney won 2 HCs playing the same type of game and it was damn effective, but now that his game plan with Munster doesn't work and he has to adapt and in my opinion has failed spectacularly to do just that.

My opinion, Kidney WAS an excellent coach. He is a poor one now.
England sacked Woodward after he won a World Cup, why is Kidney getting away with poor performances because he won a GS 2 years ago?

His selection policies have been a joke as well.

trackguy

TheRevolution wrote: »

He should have gone before the 6N. Its too late to change now and its a shame that our best generation had their world cup chances squandered by two very poor coaches. Kidney won our first Grand Slam in 60 years but that is largely down to the fact that it is only in the last few years that we had a team that should have won it.

My opinion, Kidney WAS an excellent coach. He is a poor one now.

You are simply failing to give credit where credit is due. It would appear that you are extraordinarily biased when it comes to Kidney.

Also, would you care to explain how he was excellent and is now poor?

Also, for the record Clive Woodward RESIGNED from his job as England coach.

sock puppet

Risteard wrote: »

We're playing a decent brand of rugby it's just that mistakes like knock-ons, ridiculous penalites, and sometimes just not taking the right option is killing us. After a poor start against Italy, which was down to mistakes there could have been plenty of tries. 3 tries against France, 3 against Scotland, and the only reason we lost the former and almost the latter was because of the penalties we gave away.

Tbh I think we're close enough to clicking. We played some great stuff at times against New Zealand in the AIs. If the team played to that level in the Six Nations we'd still be on course for the grand slam.

JustinDee

TheRevolution wrote: »

He should have gone before the 6N. Its too late to change now and its a shame that our best generation had their world cup chances squandered by two very poor coaches

The RWC in NZ hasn't taken place yet. How exactly has it been "squandered"?
There are six more tests to go before the comp starts.

JFB3

To Therevolution



What a load of uneducated rubbish you have just posted my friend.
It strikes me that you have very little expierience in either coaching or playing the game.

Your comments do not deserve any more thought than that.

TheDietShop.ie

I used to look forward to the Irish internationals but found that I could not get the enthuasism to was the Scotland Match.

Not a lot of positives to be seen, we need to be ruthless against sides like Scotland and put them to the sword.

LeeroyJones

sock puppet wrote: »

Tbh I think we're close enough to clicking. We played some great stuff at times against New Zealand in the AIs. If the team played to that level in the Six Nations we'd still be on course for the grand slam.

I'd agree.
If you take the start of the season for Leinster, we looked like we were trying too much and personally I had my doubts over Schmidt but then it clicked at around the time of our Heineken Cup opener -v- Racing and since then it has been great. I think parallels could be drawn with the Irish team.

That said, there is the issue of our indiscipline which ultimately has cost us a Grand Slam chance this year. Surely that can be ironed out by the World Cup - the danger is our reputation preceding us

hinault

We scored 8 tries and conceded 1 try in this 6N's.
We won 2 out of 3 games and ran France pretty close last week.

Some posters here need a bit of perspective.

TheRevolution

JFB3 wrote: »

To Therevolution



What a load of uneducated rubbish you have just posted my friend.
It strikes me that you have very little expierience in either coaching or playing the game.

Your comments do not deserve any more thought than that.

LOL. How on earth do my comments lead you to any conclusions about my playing experience? You'd be wrong as well but thats entirely irrelevant.

Ireland have played poorly since 2009. On our way to the Grand Slam we scrapped past a very poor England and were extraordinarily lucky to beat Wales and came very close to losing to a very poor Scotland. We then beat South Africa who had been losing to club sides such as Saracens. However in spite of all this people claimed that we were playing great rugby and were in the top 3 teams in the world. It was complete horse ****.

Then 2010, losing badly to France, lost to Scotland, scrapping by England and only looking good against Italy and a Welsh team that could only beat Italy and Scotland. Then November internationals we lost to South Africa, we lost to NZ and we scrapped by a very poor Agentina.

Onto 2011, we beat Italy by two points, we scrap by Scotland and we lose to France.

For the players Ireland have this is not a very good reflection tbh.

trackguy

TheRevolution wrote: »

On our way to the Grand Slam we scrapped past a very poor England and were extraordinarily lucky to beat Wales and came very close to losing to a very poor Scotland.

It would seem Kidney is damned if he does and damned if he don't going by your last post.

sock puppet

LeeroyJones wrote: »

That said, there is the issue of our indiscipline which ultimately has cost us a Grand Slam chance this year. Surely that can be ironed out by the World Cup - the danger is our reputation preceding us

Yeah. England had the same problem a while ago. There was a period where you'd be almost guaranteed they'd pick up at least one yellow per match.

Enright

JFB3 wrote: »

Hi Baz,

And finally as to Declan Kidney a small bit of faith in a man who has lead teams to an under 21 world cup final and grand slam, a six nations grand slam and two Heineken Cup trophys would not go amis.

Agree + 1

JFB3

good to see a bit of balance in the debate.
fact: we are trying to play a high tempo game that is built on speed and accuracy one which is both against the traditions in Ireland and new for all concerned.

fact: This is International rugby and not a lower level ala the Heineken Cup group stages where the quality of defending is lower and less consistant

fact: some of our key players are not performing at 100% with POc only into his fourth game after a near career threthening injry, a new backrow combination and an issue of confidence and inexpierience at this level at half backs

fact: Poor judgement by players who should know better at the breakdown

fact: This game plan should in all honesty have been the strategy as far back as the last 6 nations in 2009

In summary we are heading in the right direction and where selection is concerned there is very little to argue with the decisions made over the last few weeks. I think it is fantastic sea change in the way we are trying to play and I also agree that it is a difficult and sometimes painful process to get it right however we have a Irish coach and coaching team who, to me seem to know where they want to take this team and have the track record to get them there. My only concern is will the supporters and more importnatly the player collectivly buy into this.

There was a time not so long ago that we had not won a game in Scotland or Wales or England for 10 years or more. Those days are gone thank god and it is true that we have and should have higher expectations but a little bit of patiences would not be a bad call.

JustinDee

TheRevolution wrote: »

Ireland have played poorly since 2009. On our way to the Grand Slam we scrapped past a very poor England and were extraordinarily lucky to beat Wales and came very close to losing to a very poor Scotland. We then beat South Africa who had been losing to club sides such as Saracens. However in spite of all this people claimed that we were playing great rugby and were in the top 3 teams in the world. It was complete horse ****.

Sorry but the style of game has minimal effect. This isn't Strictly Ballroom Rugby.
Ireland won that season and Irish rugby saw a season like none before because of it and the provincial and A wins.
Nobody in Australia complained when a defensive team won the RWC in 1999. Nobody moaned and wailed in South Africa in 2007.

Results are what matter.

Legion2008

Ok, if the coach is to be replaced (and that's a big if) it should not be until after the world cup. It would be suicide if we tried to change the coaching ticket at this stage, the players are currently trying to adapt to a gameplan (granted it seems to be taking a long time) and if that was to change it would set everything backwards.

The one thing that concerns me and it might be reading too much into BOD's comments after the game and Heaslips last week regarding team selection and undroppable players ... is there a complacency coming into the mindset of some players regarding their position and therefore they are getting careless in their play and giving away penalties ...

I can see soemthing in the way that Kidney is trying to get them to play and I think we're one or two passes away from giving somebody a huge tonking ... someday soon everything will click together and it will be a joy to watch.

newby.204

anyone have a link to heaslips interview, cant seem to find it meself and i only saw the little soundbite on rte yesterday during the coverage.

walshb

thebaz wrote: »

Following yesterdays dismal performance , I think the time is right to get a new coach to bring us to the World cup. The selections continue to baffle, whether its Ross, Hayes, Cullen, O'Callaghan, O'Leary, McFadden - but more importantly there seams little harmony within the team and a game plan that seams antiquated for the players we have.

This is the last chance for O'Connell, D'Arcy, BOD , O'Callaghan in a World Cup, we need someone with fresh ideas to propel us to a WC we can be proud of, not just scraping victories against the likes of Scotland and Italy - we are regressing as a national rugby team, and frankly boring to watch .... i know it wont happen , but how refreshing it would be to see someone with new ideas lead us forward .. anyway , I'll just yawn my way though another couple of years of Deccies lucky reign , but i feal sorry for the senior players - BOD , Heaslip , wont have a special one to lead them to a special WC

The arrogance...

What, we just stroll to Murrayfiled and blow them away?:rolleyes:

We beat them in their ground, scored three tries, concede nil and gave away 18 points thru penalities. What does it take for a non dismal performance?

You know, there ar ****ing 15 Scots lads doing their best to fight and win too. This arrogance really irks me. They beat us last year, don't you remember?

Reminds me of the English from years gone by who were more concrened with how "much they'd beat the opposition by." Pure arrogance.

I remember on these forums when a triple crown wasn't enough for some people; still
bloody moaning. A triple crown. When we had to wait so bloddy long for one, we win a few
and folks then become arrogant and complacent.

thebaz

walshb wrote: »

The arrogance...

What, we just stroll to Murrayfiled and blow them away?:rolleyes:

We beat them in their ground, scored three tries, concede nil and gave away 18 points thru penalities. What does it take for a non dismal performance?

You know, there ar ****ing 15 Scots lads doing their best to fight and win too. This arrogance really irks me. They beat us last year, don't you remember?


I remember on these forums when a triple crown wasn't enough for some people; still
bloody moaning. A triple crown. When we had to wait so bloddy long for one, we win a few
and folks then become arrogant and complacent.

arrogance ?? it was a very poor Scottish team , that Australia and the all Blacks would have murdered - thats just a fact - with the players available , we should, and we are setting our sights and standards against the best - sorry , a triple crown isn't good eneogh for players like - BOD, POC, Heaslip, O'Brien, o'Gara - happily the team itself set its goals higher than triple crowns

vetinari

Christ Almighty. I wonder when some of the critics here started watching the Ireland rugby team. They seem to have started with the All Blacks and have decided that Ireland can play like that.

Scotland were kept in the game by our concession of penalties. Same in the France game. The positive in both games though was that we played a decent brand of rugby. I mean, give credit where it's due. People spent years bitching that Ireland should keep more ball in hand. They're now doing that and it results in both more chances but also in more handling mistakes. So the critics have latched onto the handling mistakes and are saying that we're dismal, shocking poor etc.

I applaud Kidney for having the balls to implement this type of game plan. No wonder previous coaches played very conservative and negatively. You make a mistake and you're crucified!

JFB3

Guys,


There is a running theme going through mant of the comments to day and that is that we have a great number of star players and its the coaching teams fault that we are not winning our matches in style.

Well I would venture that we are not as good as we think we are and its time the team both individually and collectivley stood up to the plate and not the coaching team.

lets get real her BOD is no where near the player he was e years ago, the midfiled access has been well figured out by oposing teams, the front five is very ordinary and not helped by an 80% fit but improving, our front three is by anyone's standars ordinary in the tight and our back three is no great shakes with Luke for all his undoubted talent very unproven at 15, Tommy Bowe only back after injury and very inexpierienced (international) at outhalf for most of the season thus far

I would venture that this is very much a work in progress and with the current talent we have we are no where near as good as what we think we are.

walshb

thebaz wrote: »

arrogance ?? it was a very poor Scottish team , that Australia and the all Blacks would have murdered - thats just a fact - with the players available , we should, and we are setting our sights and standards against the best - sorry , a triple crown isn't good eneogh for players like - BOD, POC, Heaslip, O'Brien, o'Gara - happily the team itself set its goals higher than triple crowns

That is ridiculous. Not all the teams can be the best. There has to be one or two that is simply better. That has always been the case with NZ, SA and Aus.

Jeez, we're a small island with a small population. We are competing at the highest level against teams such as Wales (national game) France, 60 million, England, 50+ million... My god, what do you expect? World cups?

Triple crowns are fantastic achievements. Beating England alone is fantastic.This game is highly competitive. Like I said, England alone is
a massive game and a massive win. The English. Home of rugby, and a whole lot more playing the game and a whole lot more to select from, and we can compete with them (AND BEAT THEM). That is unreal

So, to you, what is satisfactory? Grand Slam? We did that in 09. We cannot expect to always do it. Some of the losses have been by the bounce of a bloody ball. We never ever ever disgrace oursleves on that pitch.

It's about time we got behind the lads

So, yes, bloody arrogance from some here. Now, beating the Scots and English and Welsh
for Triple Crowns ain't all that much. Stinks of arrogance.

I have Ireland to beat England at Aviva. The Welsh will be the problem game. I can't see
a win there. Love it though.

thebaz

walshb wrote: »

That is ridiculous. Not all the teams can be the best. There has to be one or two that is simply better. That has always been the case with NZ, SA and Aus.

Jeez, we're a small island with a small population. We are competing at the highest level against teams such as Wales (national game) France, 60 million, England, 50+ million... My god, what do you expect? World cups?

Triple crowns are fantastic achievements. Beating England alone is fantastic.This game is highly competitive. L.

Ask Paul O'Connell is a triple crown, a fantastic achievement in a WC year ?

Whats wrong with setting our standards high , with the ability at our hands ?

Also , as far as I know Australia roughly has the same size rugby population as us- and they have 2 World Cups.

Finally Ireland , have persistently failed at the World Cups - we have failed to reach a semi , unlike most other senior nations.
Maybe I have high expectations, but without we are guaranteed to achieve nothing, bar a triple crown , which to me anyway, means little ...

walshb

thebaz wrote: »

Ask Paul O'Connell is a triple crown, a fantastic achievement in a WC year ?

Whats wrong with setting our standards high , with the ability at our hands ?

Also , as far as I know Australia roughly has the same size rugby population as us- and they have 2 World Cups.

Finally Ireland , have persistently failed at the World Cups - we have failed to reach a semi , unlike most other senior nations.
Maybe I have high expectations, but without we are guaranteed to achieve nothing, bar a triple crown , which to me anyway, means little ...

So, now only world cups are satisfactory. Yeh, equivalent to saying that
Paul Hession is doing feck all because he cannot make Olympic 100 m finals
or can't get a silver or bronze in a world final...

Ireland, for their size and talent pool are fantastic, and never ever disgrace
themselves against much bigger countries

Of course the lads want to win win win, but sometimes it's not possible because
they meet teams better and stronger. That's life!

Australia have a far bigger rugby playing population.
Jeez, the Aussies beat evveryone, England included, and you
are't happy because we struggle against them?

And nothing wrong with setting standards high, but realism also is
to be considered.

The Irish rugby team is every bit like our amateur boxers; top class and always
a tough match for any country, of ANY size....

Here's one: Pound for Pound the Irish rugby team are the best in the world, when all
factors are considered.

LondonIrish90

walshb wrote: »

That is ridiculous. Not all the teams can be the best. There has to be one or two that is simply better. That has always been the case with NZ, SA and Aus.

Jeez, we're a small island with a small population. We are competing at the highest level against teams such as Wales (national game) France, 60 million, England, 50+ million... My god, what do you expect? World cups?

Triple crowns are fantastic achievements. Beating England alone is fantastic.This game is highly competitive. Like I said, England alone is
a massive game and a massive win. The English. Home of rugby, and a whole lot more playing the game and a whole lot more to select from, and we can compete with them (AND BEAT THEM). That is unreal

So, to you, what is satisfactory? Grand Slam? We did that in 09. We cannot expect to always do it. Some of the losses have been by the bounce of a bloody ball. We never ever ever disgrace oursleves on that pitch.

It's about time we got behind the lads

So, yes, bloody arrogance from some here. Now, beating the Scots and English and Welsh
for Triple Crowns ain't all that much. Stinks of arrogance.

I have Ireland to beat England at Aviva. The Welsh will be the problem game. I can't see
a win there. Love it though.

Oh the irony of the bolded statement after your rant about the arrogance and expectancy of other posters in regards to the Scotland game

Anyway, your attitude seems distinctly smalltime. Beating England isn't the be all and end all. Its no clash of the titans by any means. Aiming higher than beating another 6 nations team shouldnt be dismissed as forgetting where the team has come from. The huge improvement over the decades should be welcomed, but not settled for.

Besides, to most English fans, games against the Aussies and French are way more significant.

OldRio

The number of players here compared to Australia is tiny.
We punch well above our weight. Long may it continue.
Lets just support our team. That means through thick and thin.
Justifiable criticism is health but to suggest
'Lets sack the coach before the World Cup'
Deary, deary me.


'Besides, to most English fans, games against the Aussies and French are way more significant'
Talking of irony and arrogance LondonIrish90 takes the biscuit.

bamboozle

vetinari wrote: »

Christ Almighty. I wonder when some of the critics here started watching the Ireland rugby team. They seem to have started with the All Blacks and have decided that Ireland can play like that.

Scotland were kept in the game by our concession of penalties. Same in the France game. The positive in both games though was that we played a decent brand of rugby. I mean, give credit where it's due. People spent years bitching that Ireland should keep more ball in hand. They're now doing that and it results in both more chances but also in more handling mistakes. So the critics have latched onto the handling mistakes and are saying that we're dismal, shocking poor etc.

I applaud Kidney for having the balls to implement this type of game plan. No wonder previous coaches played very conservative and negatively. You make a mistake and you're crucified!

did you watch the game yesterday, ROG leathered the ball for most of the game, our backs got very few attacking passes. we are playing an up the jumper forwards game.

walshb

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Oh the irony of the bolded statement after your rant about the arrogance and expectancy of other posters in regards to the Scotland game

Anyway, your attitude seems distinctly smalltime. Beating England isn't the be all and end all. Its no clash of the titans by any means. Aiming higher than beating another 6 nations team shouldnt be dismissed as forgetting where the team has come from. The huge improvement over the decades should be welcomed, but not settled for.

Besides, to most English fans, games against the Aussies and French are way more significant.

Well, if NZ, SA and Aus ever come into this tournamnet, then
we can discuss how we fare against them. Don't ever undermine
beating the English. The home of rugby. A massive rugby loving nation.
That is pure arrogance to dismiss them as just another team.

walshb

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Oh the irony of the bolded statement after your rant about the arrogance and expectancy of other posters in regards to the Scotland game
.

Maybe just me, but I fel hometown advantage is quite significant
in rugby, hence Ireland beat England. I would favor England at Twickenham

Conas

It's going to be a very difficult World Cup for all the teams in the northern hemisphere regardless of who the manager is. The All Blacks and South Africa are a good bit ahead of everyone else. I'm still not convinced that Australia are up to that level yet despite tearing France apart.

Ok you say Kidney should go, but who extactlly do you want to replace him? If I was to pick anyone it would be Joe Schmidt, but that's not going to happen. People say Kidney should go, and I'm asking those people who should take his place then?

No disrespect but some of you people do overreact way too much. Since we won the Grand Slam and went unbeaten in 09, Leinster winning the HC. Munster winning the Magners League, people seem to have the bar set extremely high. We expect to beat everyone and play an awesome brand of rugby game in game out. I think we're expecting way too much from the manager and the players IMO. After every single game there seems to be criticism, and moaning, and I actually believe this kind of negativity and criticism is affecting the players to a certain degree. I just hope it stops because we don't need it going into a World Cup.

Just as a matter of interest was that Eddie O Sullivan in the managers box with Kidney yesterday? Looked very like him. Did anyone notice him?

LondonIrish90

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Besides, to most English fans, games against the Aussies and French are way more significant.

As an Irish fan, I'd say the same for myself. I much prefer getting one over a SH side or France as a win against them is so rare. Ireland have only lost to England once since 2003. As such it's never really the marquée game for me. Ireland have Englands number and need to push on to compete with the bigger fish.

LondonIrish90

Deleted User wrote: »

As an Irish fan, I'd say the same for myself. I much prefer getting one over a SH side or France as a win against them is so rare. Ireland have only lost to England once since 2003. As such it's never really the marquée game for me. Ireland have Englands number and need to push on to compete with the bigger fish.

Slightly different scenario this time around I would say. Well, we shall see in 3 weeks time I suppose. Until then its all talk from both sides.

phog

bamboozle wrote: »

did you watch the game yesterday, ROG leathered the ball for most of the game, our backs got very few attacking passes. we are playing an up the jumper forwards game.

Did you watch the same game as me? Read the stats here ROG kicked the ball 7 times in the game and Sexton did it 3 times in about 15 mins, hardly leathering the ball as you call. Actually, Sexton not kicking for field territory nearly landed us in the mire.

thebaz

walshb wrote: »

The Irish rugby team is every bit like our amateur boxers; top class and always
a tough match for any country, of ANY size....

Here's one: Pound for Pound the Irish rugby team are the best in the world, when all
factors are considered.

i love both sports, but from my little contact with both internationally, the rugby lads have a much more professional setup around them - compare setup at the Aviva versus Stadium - i believe with a good coach and team spirit , this team is well capable of a WC semi - i hope kidney can do it, but on yesterdays display and the general decline in the team performance, i seriously doubt it - they are professionals, including kidney , and as a high profile and well paid coach, he should be questioned and analyzed , in my view anyway, if the team is not performing to its max.

TheRevolution

phog wrote: »

Did you watch the same game as me? Read the stats here ROG kicked the ball 7 times in the game and Sexton did it 3 times in about 15 mins, hardly leathering the ball as you call. Actually, Sexton not kicking for field territory nearly landed us in the mire.

Kicking the ball 50% of the time you have it is definitely leathering it.

TheRevolution

JustinDee wrote: »

Sorry but the style of game has minimal effect. This isn't Strictly Ballroom Rugby.
Ireland won that season and Irish rugby saw a season like none before because of it and the provincial and A wins.
Nobody in Australia complained when a defensive team won the RWC in 1999. Nobody moaned and wailed in South Africa in 2007.

Results are what matter.

My point is we have never got results against the top teams when they are playing well. We lost to France in 2010 and 2011, we lost to South Africa in 2010, we lost to NZ twice in 2010, we lost to Australia in 2010. Our best result was probably beating France at home 2 years ago. Other than that, in 2 years of management what great opposition have we beaten?

This thread is bizarre.

Upheaval of Kidney at this stage in a WC year is tantamount to insanity.

The chance to change coaches was many months ago, and wasn't taken. Simple stuff, now we go to the WC with Kidney at the helm, and tbh, any coach that was willing to take the team now, only 4months from the WC wouldn't be worth changing for!

walshb

thebaz wrote: »

i love both sports, but from my little contact with both internationally, the rugby lads have a much more professional setup around them - compare setup at the Aviva versus Stadium - i believe with a good coach and team spirit , this team is well capable of a WC semi - i hope kidney can do it, but on yesterdays display and the general decline in the team performance, i seriously doubt it - they are professionals, including kidney , and as a high profile and well paid coach, he should be questioned and analyzed , in my view anyway, if the team is not performing to its max.

Yes, and realistically if we get to a semi and meet any of the big 3 we will be underdogs, no matter what coach or set up. The point is that sometimes in sport, others are most of the time better.

Now, take Ireland for what it is. A small isalnd with a small pool. They are doing exremely well. Beating England, Wales, Scotland; France are always our tough side, but many times it's a bounce of the ball between the two.

We are top 5 or 6 in the world. To knock the top three off is just a step too far IMO. And it's a step too far for the mighty French and English too.

Ireland picks from 5 million. England and France have far more to choose from.
Now, to then say, as some are, that triple crowns aren't fantastic, is arrogant.

How are folks so quick to slag this team off after travelling away
to Scotland and beating them without even conceding a try; something
France could not do. It's absurd.

Yesterdays game was ruined for me having to constantly listen to the likes
of Lenihan and O'Shea and Hook criticising and criticising and criticising.

I know some criticism will always take place. But non stop all thru the game?

Making out that the Scots were retarded. Us breaking our balls
to win, and all they were seeing was negative negative negative. Holy sh!t, O'Shea spent
5 minutes pointing out where we should have been penalised throughout the game?
What a tit!

Not even an ounce of credit for the three tries; all down to poor defending?
Any try conceded is technically down to bloody poor defending. But, what about the build up, the push
and the getting the ball over the line? Unreal to listen to that sh!t

marco_polo

TheRevolution wrote: »

Kicking the ball 50% of the time you have it is definitely leathering it.

(7 / 21) * (100/1) = ? :rolleyes:

As I recall 2 of those 7 kicks were inch perfect ones into the corner that ultimately resulted in tries.

TheRevolution

marco_polo wrote: »

(7 / 21) * (100/1) = ? :rolleyes:

As I recall 2 of those 7 kicks were inch perfect ones into the corner that ultimately resulted in tries.

Yes I got mixed up for a second. Kicking the ball one in every four times is still poor considering a lot of those kicks were in the Scottish half and we were losing lineouts. Only one of those kicks resulted in a position from which we eventually got a try by the way the other put us in an attacking position but then O'Gara got turned over with a certain try on.

phog

TheRevolution wrote: »

Yes I got mixed up for a second. Kicking the ball one in every four times is still poor considering a lot of those kicks were in the Scottish half and we were losing lineouts. Only one of those kicks resulted in a position from which we eventually got a try by the way the other put us in an attacking position but then O'Gara got turned over with a certain try on.

Sexton kicked it 3 times from 6, maybe that's where you got your 50%. How many times was there a real option of a pass, if he passed and there was an intercept I wonder would his critics have said at least he passed and not leatherd the ball up the field.

Piliger

I regret to say that if Kidney cannot stem this tide of penalties, he must go.

He is the coach. He has the power to select or deselect.

If he cannot stem the tide in the next two games, HE MUST GO.

Almaviva

Yes. He should go before the Welsh game.
And not just due to the penalties or indiscipline. But due to the lack of any discernable game plan and for managing to get the worst out of some talented players.

Do it now while someone else has a chance. If not, I fear an Eddie O'Sullivan style world cup fiaso looming.