Take-away delivery - not enough money to give me change

sarah-bear

As a regular customer of my local pizza delivery company, I ordered a delivery on Wednesday evening.

My order came to €11.

When the delivery driver called to the house, I gave him €21 so to get a €10 note in return.
He said he did not have a €10 note so gave me back the €1, and would give the change (€9) from the €20.

While counting out the change, he said he hadn't enough change to give me back, so only gave me €7 as opposed to €9.

I would have considered it a common occurance to pay for an €11 order with a €20 note so would have expected the change to be available.

I know its only €2 but its the principle!

Would it be worth it to write an email to their customer complaints dept?
Or just leave it out?

Penn

I'd definitely complain. He essentially made you give him a tip, and I seriously doubt he couldn't have given you the right change.

I'd report him. That type of practise needs to be stopped, otherwise he'll be pulling that trick everywhere.

Fol20

I would have told him to give back my money if he couldnt give me the change..Like you might let 50c or something go but 2euro is well too much imo

sarah-bear

Thanks,

That's what I thought alright.

Its not like I have a problem giving a tip (I always do!) but this just kind of annoyed me.

Will email customer services and see how I get on....

jimmynokia

if your looking for a honest answer your going a bit ott
if it was a regular thing and with the same driver yeah then complain
like you said you give the driver a tip like i would whats the big deal?

sarah-bear

jimmynokia wrote: »

if your looking for a honest answer your going a bit ott
if it was a regular thing and with the same driver yeah then complain
like you said you give the driver a tip like i would whats the big deal?

Well I don't think its a big deal really, more annoying than anything, but surely tipping is at the discretion of the customer, not something you are forced to do.

the_syco

jimmynokia wrote: »

like you said you give the driver a tip like i would whats the big deal?

Personally I tip if
a) he delivers quickly
b) I have the money

Heck, I may need that €2 for the bus tomorrow. Next time it happens, tell them that you want the €20 back, that you'll ring up the business and say you are cancelling the order as hte driver doesn't have change, and that'll you order elsewhere. See how quickly the driver "finds" the change in his "other pocket" :rolleyes:

P. Breathnach

You should bear in mind that it is your responsibility to pay the right amount rather than the responsibility of the seller to give change.

Max Power1

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You should bear in mind that it is your responsibility to pay the right amount rather than the responsibility of the seller to give change.

+1

Legally the driver is not obliged to give change.

All that is required is for the customer to proffer an amount equal or above the debt incurred, any surplus is considered a gift automatically and technically is only refunded out of goodwill.

DublinWriter

sarah-bear wrote: »

I know its only €2 but its the principle!

No, it's actually the principal.

Tell you what...spend a week delivering pizzas in a beat-up Nissan Micra to Irish dole-scum who can't even be bothered to cook food for their families and who'd rather feed their kids trans-fat salt-laden take-out junk food and then come on here complaining that you've been done out of €2 by some poor eastern-european/asian worker that's on minimum wage.

Walk a mile in that person's shoes and then I'll start to listen to you.

Bigcheeze

DublinWriter wrote: »

No, it's actually the principal.

Tell you what...spend a week delivering pizzas in a beat-up Nissan Micra to Irish dole-scum who can't even be bothered to cook food for their families and who'd rather feed their kids trans-fat salt-laden take-out junk food and then come on here complaining that you've been done out of €2 by some poor eastern-european/asian worker that's on minimum wage.

Walk a mile in that person's shoes and then I'll start to listen to you.

Nice trolling

sarah-bear

DublinWriter wrote: »

No, it's actually the principal.

Tell you what...spend a week delivering pizzas in a beat-up Nissan Micra to Irish dole-scum who can't even be bothered to cook food for their families and who'd rather feed their kids trans-fat salt-laden take-out junk food and then come on here complaining that you've been done out of €2 by some poor eastern-european/asian worker that's on minimum wage.

Walk a mile in that person's shoes and then I'll start to listen to you.

Well I'm not "Dole Scum" and I don't have kids, but thanks for the input regardless. I too am on minimum wage.

My original point was is it worth speaking to their customer service dept about the fact that the driver didn't have enough money on him to give me back my change.

davetherave

If you look at their menu, if you have one, they might say something along the lines of "Driver carries less than €X(20?) euro in change". If that is the case then it should be enough to cover your complaint.

UrbanSea

DublinWriter wrote: »

No, it's actually the principal.

Tell you what...spend a week delivering pizzas in a beat-up Nissan Micra to Irish dole-scum who can't even be bothered to cook food for their families and who'd rather feed their kids trans-fat salt-laden take-out junk food and then come on here complaining that you've been done out of €2 by some poor eastern-european/asian worker that's on minimum wage.

Walk a mile in that person's shoes and then I'll start to listen to you.

Is this a joke or have I just come across the most pompous person on boards?

sarah-bear

davetherave wrote: »

If you look at their menu, if you have one, they might say something along the lines of "Driver carries less than €X(20?) euro in change". If that is the case then it should be enough to cover your complaint.

Just checked it there and it says "Drivers carry €20 in cash only"

Fey!

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You should bear in mind that it is your responsibility to pay the right amount rather than the responsibility of the seller to give change.

Max Power1 wrote: »

+1

Legally the driver is not obliged to give change.

All that is required is for the customer to proffer an amount equal or above the debt incurred, any surplus is considered a gift automatically and technically is only refunded out of goodwill.

Would one of you two please give a verifiable link for that.

That's like saying that if someone came into my shop with e20 and wanted to buy an item for e11, then I don't have to give them change if I don't have enough money in my till, and it's tough luck to the customer!

Agent_99

@Dublinwriter

You are bang out of order! Pizza like any fast food should be eaten in moderation but as a family treat it is one of my family's favorite on a night that we are not ferrying our two sons to rugby or hurling training and matches, and of course providing we can afford it out of our social welfare payment after we have paid our weeks shopping, mortgage, bills, car tax insurances etc.

Get you head out of the sterotype cloud as this country has a lot of hard working people currently out of work through no fault of their own, and to tar them all with the same brush is very uneducated.

OP was short changed by €2 and has a right to make a point

wmpdd3

Fey! wrote: »

Would one of you two please give a verifiable link for that.

That's like saying that if someone came into my shop with e20 and wanted to buy an item for e11, then I don't have to give them change if I don't have enough money in my till, and it's tough luck to the customer!

Its contract law, it comes up alot in a shop where they cannot take €500 notes as they wouldn't have the change.

But this law was written a long time before pizza delivery!

Zab

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Its contract law, it comes up alot in a shop where they cannot take €500 notes as they wouldn't have the change.

But this law was written a long time before pizza delivery!

That's rather different to "any surplus is considered a gift automatically and technically is only refunded out of goodwill". Which sounds like horse****.

dudara

P. Breathnach and Max Power 1 are both spot on.

A retailer is not legally obliged to provide change. Once a contract is formed, the purchaser is legally obliged to provide sufficient legal tender to cover the cost of the goods/services provided. Once the purchaser has provided legal tender to cover the cost of the goods, the retailer does not have to provide change in the case where excess legal tender was offered.

That's the legal position - however, we all know that all businesses do offer change. But in such a situation, I personally don't think that a driver can be expected to carry enough float to provide change for everyone.

Fey!

Every day is a schoolday!!!

I can only assume that it comes from the legal tender angle where you only have to accept cash as payment of an already incurred debt, but not if someone is buying something off you (where a debt has not yet arisen).

In that case, surely the customer has the right to refuse the transaction?

In the case of the OP, it would not be unreasonable to expect the driver to have the change of a e20 note, especially given that over the last few years most people pay with e50 notes.

Bigcheeze

dudara wrote: »

].

, I personally don't think that a driver can be expected to carry enough float to provide change for everyone.

Why not ? They're going back to the takeaway every couple of deliveries where change is available.

Could you imagine the uproar if taxies were doing this !!

dudara

I think the main difference arises from the fact that most taxi drivers are self-employed and thus responsible for their own money. However, delivery drivers are employed by the pizza companies (for example) and I would say that they're not trusted enough to carry float and excess cash. Just a guess.

Zab

dudara wrote: »

Once a contract is formed, the purchaser is legally obliged to provide sufficient legal tender to cover the cost of the goods/services provided. Once the purchaser has provided legal tender to cover the cost of the goods, the retailer does not have to provide change in the case where excess legal tender was offered.

I stand corrected. However, are you saying that the retailer in no way owes the excess back to the purchaser?

edit: or perhaps another question is whether there is any obligation on them to inform you they aren't giving change before they take your money, or otherwise undo the transaction when they do inform you. Just seems more than a little odd that if you were to give a shopkeeper a €50 it would immediately become legally his.

mikemac

When I order take away I always tell them if I only have a €50 note.
Never an issue and it's good so the driver can be organized.

But for the OP, any driver should have change to cover under €20 change.
Next time you order just adjust and pay less. Call up the place and get a name so you can say you agreed it with them.

smelltheglove

Years back I managed a take away, the drivers were only supposed to have €20 on them and 2 drops per run unless there was 3 deliveries in the same estate. Now lets say your driver delivered to a house around the corner where he had to give 13 euro change it is not unusual for him to be short change if all he had left was notes. Ok its not the handiest thing in the world, the €20 limit is there for the drivers safety, I accompanied one to hospital myself once after being robbed delivering but surely if you had an issue and called the store they would credit your account for the amount and you never know, they may even throw in something extra as a goodwill gesture.

s3129

Well I'm off to be a pizza delivery person ..

jor el

Zab wrote: »

I stand corrected. However, are you saying that the retailer in no way owes the excess back to the purchaser?

That is exactly the case, yes.

Zab wrote: »

Just seems more than a little odd that if you were to give a shopkeeper a €50 it would immediately become legally his.

While this is true, a shop would not stay in business if they were to make this general practice, as no one would shop there. Change is given as good-will, not because it's actually a requirement. Any shop that refused to give change would make a very short term gain before running out of customers.

In the case of this thread, the OP could contact the shop and ask if they can credit the money off his next order. To avoid problems in future he can either have correct change for whatever is being ordered, or tell them at the time of ordering to make sure the driver has enough change.

sarah-bear

Thanks everyone for replying.

Was not aware of the contract law, really interesting!

Think from now on I will take jor-el's advice and ensure I have the correct amount ready, or inform the place beforehand if not.

Thanks again!

mikemac

Remind them next time Sarah, they'll throw in something free to keep you happy

Shelflife

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You should bear in mind that it is your responsibility to pay the right amount rather than the responsibility of the seller to give change.

That may well be technically true, but it makes sense and is professional to carry a reasonable amount of change.

Any time we do deliveries I always bring change.

amiable

sarah-bear wrote: »

Thanks,

That's what I thought alright.

Its not like I have a problem giving a tip (I always do!) but this just kind of annoyed me.

Will email customer services and see how I get on....

If you always give a tip how come you had 21 euro ready to get a 10euro note back?
By the way delivery drivers do tend to use tactics to get a tip.

Bigcheeze

jor el wrote: »

Any shop that refused to give change would make a very short term gain before running out of customers.

They wouldn't make any short term gain. Obviously if the shop doesn't want to or can't give change, the transaction can be cancelled by the customer and the person can take back their €50 or whatever denomination they handed over!

jester77

That's bad form and doesn't reflect too well on the pizza company, regardless of whether or not it's their right not to have adequate change on their drivers.

I've been in this position a few times and on each occasion the driver sorted it out it my favour. When it was from a place where I regularly order they offered not to take the money and that I could sort them out the next time they delivered. When it was not from a company where I ordered too frequently, the driver took my money and promised to return later that evening with the appropriate change, and that he did. A little customer service can go a long way. If I was treated like you OP, then I would not be placing any future orders with that company.

djayforza

i myself am a delivery driver, i would never leave someone short 2 quid i have often gone to the local shop and back to offer the right change. sometimes circumstances do occur where u dont have the right change but a simple call to the shop can sort that out. in relation to drivers using tactics to get tips some do some dont i dont i always give the money back and whatever the customer decides to give me is a bonus. the odd time i might leave someone 5 on 10c short but thats hardly a big deal. if this no change thing is constant well then report it otherwise forget about it and dont bother reporting it. anyway all drivers i know and work with are honest and reliable and at the end of the day they are only out to make a few bob. may i remind you that i get 25e for 4 hours but if no deliveries come in thats all i get. my shop isnt the busiest and its becoming less and less viable with the increasing fuel costs to be a driver. i hope this insight into the my work might give all a bit of perspective on what our jobs are like(no offense meant if any taken)

UrbanSea

That's a good point forza. My friend who often delivers goes to thje shop for people if there's no change,usually at the start of a shift if he hadn't thought of it.

Star_Cow

Corruption Pizza Man Of Doom!

Max Power1

Bigcheeze wrote: »

They wouldn't make any short term gain. Obviously if the shop doesn't want to or can't give change, the transaction can be cancelled by the customer and the person can take back their €50 or whatever denomination they handed over!

What if its a situation where a debt has been incurred eg filling station, restaurant etc?

The customer cannot cancel the transaction after consuming the good and incurring a debt.

dudara

Bigcheeze wrote: »

They wouldn't make any short term gain. Obviously if the shop doesn't want to or can't give change, the transaction can be cancelled by the customer and the person can take back their €50 or whatever denomination they handed over!

It may not be possible to cancel the transaction in all situations, and is even trickier legally if a contract has been deemed to be formed.

kona

If you Know that you need to get over e5 in change maybe tell them when you order? So the driver can get the change.
Id have thought some simple maths/cop on would easily solve problems like this.

Zab

dudara wrote: »

It may not be possible to cancel the transaction in all situations, and is even trickier legally if a contract has been deemed to be formed.

Yeah, there are a lot of situations where this may be the case.

What legislation is it that covers these situations?

Bigcheeze

Max Power1 wrote: »

What if its a situation where a debt has been incurred eg filling station, restaurant etc?

The customer cannot cancel the transaction after consuming the good and incurring a debt.

I guess the customer can come back with the correct change or post it.

dudara

Zab wrote: »

Yeah, there are a lot of situations where this may be the case.

What legislation is it that covers these situations?

I'd say that Contract Law covers it - but maybe someone else can offer more insight.

Max Power1

Bigcheeze wrote: »

I guess the customer can come back with the correct change or post it.

Leaving without settling the incurred debt?

JustAddWater

Why not ask them to credit €2 to your account? They should do that for you

celtictiger32

sarah-bear wrote: »

As a regular customer of my local pizza delivery company, I ordered a delivery on Wednesday evening.

My order came to €11.

When the delivery driver called to the house, I gave him €21 so to get a €10 note in return.
He said he did not have a €10 note so gave me back the €1, and would give the change (€9) from the €20.

While counting out the change, he said he hadn't enough change to give me back, so only gave me €7 as opposed to €9.

I would have considered it a common occurance to pay for an €11 order with a €20 note so would have expected the change to be available.

I know its only €2 but its the principle!

Would it be worth it to write an email to their customer complaints dept?
Or just leave it out?

i would have taken the 20 back and told him to come back for his money when he has change i have done the oul delivery job many years ago and i always made sure i had a float as any other drivers i knew. chances are i would of probably given him the 2 euro as a tip had there been no problems...

a similar thing gets on my wick is i live in a court complex where maybe 10 -15 houses are in a little court facing each other if you can picture that, you have to walk through a little archway to enter the complex. the distance is no longer than a lot of driveways but when i order a pizza the delivery driver refuses to walk in requesting me to go to the car park, any other drivers chinese, chipper or whatever always come in and cant understand why the pizza guy wont ..... and he wonders why he never gets tipped.

Bigcheeze

Max Power1 wrote: »

Leaving without settling the incurred debt?

Nothing in the law says they can't give credit.

celtictiger32

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Nothing in the law says they can't give credit.

if hes any sort of a business man he would give the credit, hes not obliged to but its a gesture of good will and if it were me i would gladly credit the customer. for the sake of 2 euro to lose a regular customer??????...... its a no brainer

Zab

dudara wrote: »

I'd say that Contract Law covers it - but maybe someone else can offer more insight.

I haven't had any luck finding further information on this. Max Power, do you remember where you first read this?

P. Breathnach

Zab wrote: »

I haven't had any luck finding further information on this. Max Power, do you remember where you first read this?

It really is basic contract law: you order a pizza for delivery (offer); the pizza company agrees to send it out (acceptance); the pizza is delivered (performance); you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery).

The purchaser has an obligation to make payment in legal tender (there is no implicit right to be given change but vendors normally oblige by giving it). The customer has no right to defer payment.

Zab

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It really is basic contract law: you order a pizza for delivery (offer); the pizza company agrees to send it out (acceptance); the pizza is delivered (performance); you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery).

The purchaser has an obligation to make payment in legal tender (there is no implicit right to be given change but vendors normally oblige by giving it). The customer has no right to defer payment.

This is all understandable.

However, although "you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery)", you could argue that pretty much everybody would expect the terms to include change.

The part that isn't sitting well is obviously at the payment stage. It has been stated in this thread that when I hand over any legal tender I immediately lose the right to anything extra that I've handed over. The reason I was looking for it in writing was in the hope it would deal with the situation after the vendor refuses to give change.