30% who didn't vote

briano

I'm seeing a lot of comments about how the 30% who didn't vote should have no say in what happens to the country, how they shouldn't be able to voice an opinion, etc etc.

I didn't vote. It's not like it was for lack of trying. Both myself and my OH are overseas, I am here with my Irish job and she is here as she couldn't find the equivalent opportunities in Ireland as she can over here.

When it was announced that there would be an election, the date the pundits suggested that would be the most likely was the 11th or the 12th of March. So, we hit ryanair and booked flights to come home. Unfortunately, that turned out to not be the date of the election and we can't afford to book a second set of flights home.

As I away with work, it turned out there was the possibility to register for a postal vote. However, the deadline for receipt of applications is two days after an election is called. Further to that, after you apply you have to get your postal ballot approved at a Garda station, which would require a trip home anyway, so we are back in the same boat as before.

I hope that the incoming government can do something for people who have had to emigrate, or who have had to move overseas with their work. But, as someone who didn't vote, apparently I don't have the right to complain about it.

tl;dr: Sort out remote voting.

goose2005

Not to mention that many of the "non-voters" are actually people who get more than one vote due to a shambolic electoral register. Both my parents got 2 polling cards each (they only cast 1 vote) and my brother used to get 2 as well (apparently the Irish electoral register was confused by a fada:rolleyes:).

RandolphEsq

briano wrote: »

I'm seeing a lot of comments about how the 30% who didn't vote should have no say in what happens to the country, how they shouldn't be able to voice an opinion, etc etc.

I didn't vote. It's not like it was for lack of trying. Both myself and my OH are overseas, I am here with my Irish job and she is here as she couldn't find the equivalent opportunities in Ireland as she can over here.

When it was announced that there would be an election, the date the pundits suggested that would be the most likely was the 11th or the 12th of March. So, we hit ryanair and booked flights to come home. Unfortunately, that turned out to not be the date of the election and we can't afford to book a second set of flights home.

As I away with work, it turned out there was the possibility to register for a postal vote. However, the deadline for receipt of applications is two days after an election is called. Further to that, after you apply you have to get your postal ballot approved at a Garda station, which would require a trip home anyway, so we are back in the same boat as before.

I hope that the incoming government can do something for people who have had to emigrate, or who have had to move overseas with their work. But, as someone who didn't vote, apparently I don't have the right to complain about it.

tl;dr: Sort out remote voting.

I'd agree with that, and I mean no personal disrespect to your personal circumstances, but you aren't a part of this society anymore so you shouldn't decide how those of us here should be governed.

Joey the lips

briano wrote: »

I'm seeing a lot of comments about how the 30% who didn't vote should have no say in what happens to the country, how they shouldn't be able to voice an opinion, etc etc.

I didn't vote. It's not like it was for lack of trying. Both myself and my OH are overseas, I am here with my Irish job and she is here as she couldn't find the equivalent opportunities in Ireland as she can over here.

When it was announced that there would be an election, the date the pundits suggested that would be the most likely was the 11th or the 12th of March. So, we hit ryanair and booked flights to come home. Unfortunately, that turned out to not be the date of the election and we can't afford to book a second set of flights home.

As I away with work, it turned out there was the possibility to register for a postal vote. However, the deadline for receipt of applications is two days after an election is called. Further to that, after you apply you have to get your postal ballot approved at a Garda station, which would require a trip home anyway, so we are back in the same boat as before.

I hope that the incoming government can do something for people who have had to emigrate, or who have had to move overseas with their work. But, as someone who didn't vote, apparently I don't have the right to complain about it.

tl;dr: Sort out remote voting.

i dont think the stat is particulary targeting you. You obviously cannot vote from abroad and to be expected to return is madness So i agree provision should be made

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I'd agree with that, and I mean no personal disrespect to your personal circumstances, but you aren't a part of this society anymore so you shouldn't decide how those of us here should be governed.

You are being disrespectful imo without realising it. Why should they not have a say? Dave McWilliams makes a fantastic arguement as to why a vote should be given to the "Irish" abroad. Its a simular reason as the Isrealies do. You know the crowd who own the flag in your avaitor.

OP this stat is targeting those who could not be arsed and will prob spend hours argueing politics in this thread instead.

Dirk Gently

technically I didn't vote either as I only used the voting card for my present address but I didn't use the one that went to my old address.

briano

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I'd agree with that, and I mean no personal disrespect to your personal circumstances, but you aren't a part of this society anymore so you shouldn't decide how those of us here should be governed.

Well, I pay taxes in Ireland, my home is in Ireland and most of my family is there. I am overseas on assignment with my Irish Job and will be returning (probably) when my assignment finishes. For the record, I will be out of the country for less than a year, so it's not like I am trying to foist my opinions on "the old country" like some second generation plastic paddy sitting in a bar in Boston, if you will excuse the stereotype. But I feel like I have been disenfranchised, in part by my career and in part through the the regulations on who can and can't vote from overseas.

Duke Leonal Felmet

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I'd agree with that, and I mean no personal disrespect to your personal circumstances, but you aren't a part of this society anymore so you shouldn't decide how those of us here should be governed.

He is an Irish citizen, the same as you. Shame on you.

wmpdd3

That really is shambolic, my mum got 3 cards. 1 each for her last 3 addresses. They are all on the same post mans route so he gave them to her.

Bot my father who have the same 3 addresses got 2 cards.

So that's 2/5 votes cast.... the % of people who voted is irrevelant due to a defunct electoral register.

Flukey

If the individual is still on the electoral register, no matter where they may be, they have a right to vote. There are practical reasons why some vote, like people being away or sick. There are deceased people still on the list. Having said all that, 30% not voting is a large amount and a lot of those should vote.

It would be great if more people voted, and there are some who complain and don't participate who should do so. You get the "I've no interest in politics" or "Politics doesn't affect me" lines. Not true, as politics affects us all if we live in (or had to leave) this society. It affects their wage or their dole, the lights on their street, the health service they use and so on. So it is of interest to them and it does affect them, whether they think so or not. "My vote won't make a difference" is another line we hear. Every individual vote affects the result, so it does count. Ironically a lot of the people that didn't vote were probably cheering on the people in the African and Middle Eastern countries trying to get their rights of late. We have those rights, so we should use them.

Duke Leonal Felmet

briano wrote: »

Well, I pay taxes in Ireland, my home is in Ireland and most of my family is there. I am overseas on assignment with my Irish Job and will be returning (probably) when my assignment finishes. For the record, I will be out of the country for less than a year, so it's not like I am trying to foist my opinions on "the old country" like some second generation plastic paddy sitting in a bar in Boston, if you will excuse the stereotype. But I feel like I have been disenfranchised, in part by my career and in part through the the regulations on who can and can't vote from overseas.

It has nothing to do with your taxes, you are an Irish citizen, it is YOUR country. Most civilised democracies allow it's citizens to vote from abroad on that basis. It's a pity we are an island of begrudgers.

yoshytoshy

I just about voted myself ,friday is my busiest day of the week. I'm sure theres a high percentage of the 30% who couldn't make it because of work etc.

I thought 70% turnout was quite good.

briano

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

It has nothing to do with your taxes, you are an Irish citizen, it is YOUR country. Most civilised democracies allow it's citizens to vote from abroad on that basis. It's a pity we are an island of begrudgers.

Sorry, I was just trying to make the point that I am still involved, not making it about taxes.

whydoibother?

I think forced emigrants are treated very unfairly. The argument goes that they are not paying taxes in Ireland therefore they cannot vote. Well, the reality is that if they were in Ireland, they wouldn't be paying taxes either they would be drawing the dole. That's why the emigrated. OK, they are not contributing to the society, but at least they are not a drain on it either. They are neutral. They have done the best they can for the society. They should retain their vote for a certain number of years. I'm not saying people who haven't lived in Ireland since the 70's and plainly have no intention of ever doing so again should vote.

Incidentally, I have no issue with people who legitimately need the dole and cannot emigrate claiming it.

Taltos

I similarly got 2 votes - recently moved home. Weird thing was I had not personally registered at my new address - but somehow the register was updated and I got the vote anyway.

Either way, I can understand why some people may hve chosen not to vote. At the end of the day I think we can all agree that our form of government is outdated and no matter who we vote in each of the parties will only be looking for themselves. I have yet to see any party or candidate willing to put this country ahead of their own re-election. Each of the parties harp on about their own soap box items - yet no party that I could see put forward a radical new way of governing and safe-guarding this country for future generations.

We have huge natural and renewable resources that we need to take advantage of; wind - wave - and some solar - and longterm seek to sell the surplus back across the sea. Instead we have candidates blaming each other and the outgoing government, making idle promises and yet further tying this country down from progressing by taking stands against such things as same-sex marriage - how does that help us dig ourselves out of the hole we are in.

So yes, I am not thrilled that quite so many did not vote - but absenteeism is a valid way of taking a stand against a form of government and class of people that is still corrupt, no matter if it is FG now instead of FF. I was around the last time they got in and I have a fair feeling we will see a swell against them again this time around and we still will not have tried to fix the real problems in the country - we will continue to blame each other for not voting or not voting correctly instead of tackling the real causes of issues here - Mé-feinism.

iamwhoiam

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I'd agree with that, and I mean no personal disrespect to your personal circumstances, but you aren't a part of this society anymore so you shouldn't decide how those of us here should be governed.

Shame on you for that remark . So many of our young people had to leave this country and are fiercely loyal and interested how we are doing and are fully entitled to be a part of us .

legrandemac

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I'd agree with that, and I mean no personal disrespect to your personal circumstances, but you aren't a part of this society anymore so you shouldn't decide how those of us here should be governed.

Slightly off topic but since it was brought up...

What a load of ould bollix. Its just more RTE news bull**** rhetoric spewed during the high times, this if you don't vote you don't have any opinion or complaint etc. In fact I would say people who didn't vote FF over the past 14 years probably have more right to complain than any other part of this society. There are many people completely disillusioned with the entire status quo in this country and don't see any great change with a new FG government.

Many voting areas during a general election just become glorified council elections with no candidate capable of having any influence or say in the national question. The system needs to be changed to have proper separation of local issues from national issues. People do want to have their voice heard but in some cases can't see it making any difference or don't share any ideology with any candidate in their area so refrain from voting. I'm not go be so smug as to criticise it.
The when a mindset is like this idea of spoiling votes is pointless as is the idea of voting for the least worst candidate.

I voted this election for the least worst canditiate, even though I'm not necessarily happy about my choice and still don't know if it was worth the effort. In 2007 election I didn't vote for the reasons above and 'still' cannot believe how many sheep actually voted for 'that' lot when it was fairly obvious that something was massively wrong in this country at that stage. This is the type of event that can really sow the seeds of utter indifference in the voting public.

clown bag

clown bag wrote: »

technically I didn't vote either as I only used the voting card for my present address but I didn't use the one that went to my old address.

Same! for both my husband and myself. So there you've got two more voters who just "didn't show up".

whydoibother?

Deleted User wrote: »

Same! for both my husband and myself. So there you've got two more voters who just "didn't show up".

That's a good point. 70% is a fairly high turnout by international standards, and if the real turnout was even higher, maybe we deserve to feel pretty good about ourselves as regards participation.

Rabble Rabble

Agree with the OP - the electoral register is so fubar that 70% = 85%. I think.

Rabble Rabble

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

It has nothing to do with your taxes, you are an Irish citizen, it is YOUR country. Most civilised democracies allow it's citizens to vote from abroad on that basis. It's a pity we are an island of begrudgers.

I live abroad ( the UK) where I can vote. Ireland has too many potential passport holders - given the grandfather rule - to allow people to vote if they live abroad.

So, no, you shouldn't get the vote if you have one in another constituency.

wow sierra

I hope all the people who got more than one polling card will contact the local authority to have their names removed from the register. It is as imortant as contacting them to have it put on.

Compiling the register is a massive undertaking and with the repeated public sector cut backs - to be excellerated by Fine Gael - it is very difficult to put enough resources into it.

Cat Melodeon

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

I live abroad ( the UK) where I can vote. Ireland has too many potential passport holders - given the grandfather rule - to allow people to vote if they live abroad.

So, no, you shouldn't get the vote if you have one in another constituency.

That's fine but many Irish abroad do not have a vote in another constituency because they are there for too short a period of time, are not citizens or because of other regulations.

Having an Irish passport does not entitle you to vote, you must be registered and I'm pretty sure that means being resident.

I can't see why there shouldn't be a system whereby an Irish citizen/resident can register to vote and then register for an absent vote if away for a certain period of time. That right should lapse after 5 years unless the person returns - 5 years is usually the length of time it takes to be eligible for citizenship in another country and in fairness if you're away for that length of time you should probably be looking at integrating in your new home. No point in disenfranchising people in the short-term though.

whydoibother?

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

I live abroad ( the UK) where I can vote. Ireland has too many potential passport holders - given the grandfather rule - to allow people to vote if they live abroad.

So, no, you shouldn't get the vote if you have one in another constituency.

It doesn't have to be that extreme. I agree that we shouldn't give a vote to anyone that has a passport, people who never lived here and people who have been gone for decades. However, I do think that people who have moved abroad for a short period to get through the crisis should get the vote despite not living in a constituency.

RxQueen

I know some people who didnt vote, and to be honest they had no clue at all , I think no vote is better than a uneducated vote, and just voting for the sake of it.

Flukey

Taltos wrote: »

I think we can all agree that our form of government is outdated and no matter who we vote in each of the parties will only be looking for themselves.

There is truth in that. As they say, it doesn't matter what way you vote, a government always gets in.

Duke Leonal Felmet

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

I live abroad ( the UK) where I can vote. Ireland has too many potential passport holders - given the grandfather rule - to allow people to vote if they live abroad.

So, no, you shouldn't get the vote if you have one in another constituency.

Can non-British citizens vote in the UK general election?

Oak3

The Constitution of Ireland 1937 guarantees you freedom of speech.

Article 6.1: The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights;
Article 6.1.1: Citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.

And furthermore the preamble entitles you to protect your fellow citizens from harm; it's a very interesting document and don't let anybody tell you that it's not pertinent anymore because times have changed, because it's almost guaranteed to be an excuse to take your rights and freedoms away from you.

holidaysong

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Can non-British citizens vote in the UK general election?

Irish citizens can vote in UK elections and British citizens can vote in our general elections. Not the same for other nationalities though.

Ponster

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Can non-British citizens vote in the UK general election?

You need to have been a resident for 5 years (or less than 5 years if Irish).

johnmcdnl

briano wrote: »

When it was announced that there would be an election, the date the pundits suggested that would be the most likely was the 11th or the 12th of March. So, we hit ryanair and booked flights to come home. Unfortunately, that turned out to not be the date of the election and we can't afford to book a second set of flights home.


I hope that the incoming government can do something for people who have had to emigrate, or who have had to move overseas with their work. But, as someone who didn't vote, apparently I don't have the right to complain about it.

why didn't you just wait until the election was announced officialy surely you could have waited another week or two to book your flights???

but still yes I do agree with you that the new government should sort out something to help postal voters and voters abroad... FG/Lab might be more inclined to help because most people who were forced to move abroad will blame FF which will work to FG/Lab's advantage which gives them an huge incentive to help people like you out

Rabble Rabble

Ponster wrote: »

You need to have been a resident for 5 years (or less than 5 years if Irish).

Yeah, just resident if Irish. I voted last year and am registered in Ireland. Would feel odd voting in both jurisdictions.

watty

If people are resident here but abroad they should have a postal vote.
Otherwise if they are not resident here, not paying taxes, they should not have a vote.

The 30% who didn't vote though, are mostly resident. Only a minority will be dead, duplicates, abroad/ex-pat or otherwise involuntarily not voting. Most* of the 30% will have for what ever reason chosen not to vote.
But unlike either Austrialia or Dictatorships people here have the right to abstain.

I think people should vote and number ALL the boxes in at least the "least disliked to most disliked" order, but I'll defend their right to abstain.

(* i.e. more than 1/2)

briano

johnmcdnl wrote: »

why didn't you just wait until the election was announced officialy surely you could have waited another week or two to book your flights???

Hindsight is awesome It had been announced officially but then the government fell and the date was moved forward.

Wikipedia wrote:

Cowen had previously announced on 20 January that the election would be held on 11 March, and that after the 2011 budget had been passed he would seek a dissolution of the 30th Dáil by the President.[5] However, the Green Party, the junior party in coalition government with Cowen's Fianna Fáil, withdrew from government on 23 January, stating that they would support only a truncated finance bill from the opposition benches in order to force an earlier election

But aside from that, Why should we have to pay several hundred euro to fly home, instead of a couple of euro to get to the embassy on the bus?

Chardee MacDennis

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Shame on you for that remark . So many of our young people had to leave this country and are fiercely loyal and interested how we are doing and are fully entitled to be a part of us .

Firstly nobody forced anyone to leave. Secondly I have to put up with the measures a new government brings in, emigrants don't - it's hardly fair that we get the same say in how the country is run...

briano

BastardPrince wrote: »

Firstly nobody forced anyone to leave. Secondly I have to put up with the measures a new government brings in, emigrants don't - it's hardly fair that we get the same say in how the country is run...

Well, while I wasn't forced to leave, it is a condition of my employment that I travel. I'm sure I am not the only one in that situation either.

Chardee MacDennis

briano wrote: »

Well, while I wasn't forced to leave, it is a condition of my employment that I travel. I'm sure I am not the only one in that situation either.

You're not very clear, do you live in Ireland? If you had to book flights to come home, sounds to me like you don't live here.

briano

BastardPrince wrote: »

You're not very clear, do you live in Ireland? If you had to book flights to come home, sounds to me like you don't live here.

I am on assignment overseas for my Irish job. So, temporarily, I live abroad. I am not a resident of the country that I am in currently and will be returning to Ireland when my assignment finishes.

PeakOutput

watty wrote: »

I think people should vote and number ALL the boxes in at least the "least disliked to most disliked" order

why? that makes no sense at all. putting a number beside their name gives them a potential vote.

Brian CivilEng

I'm in the same boat, I'm studying in Scotland for a few months and as soon as 11th March was announced I went online and booked my flight home. Then they changed the date and I went online to book another flight only to discover that the prices were now sky high it being so close to the date and coinciding with a 6 nations weekend. I planned to come home anyway and just pay the €300 but was persuaded by others that I shouldn't as the polls suggested that what I wanted to happen in my constituency would happen anyway (and it did, no more Haughey's in the Dáil ).

However I resent being part of the 30% who can no longer complain. I paid my taxes in Ireland until I lost my job, I would be on the dole if I didn't decide to continue my studies, I still pay rent in Dublin and I plan to live there for the rest of my life. I'm not the only one.

Chardee MacDennis

briano wrote: »

I am on assignment overseas for my Irish job. So, temporarily, I live abroad. I am not a resident of the country that I am in currently and will be returning to Ireland when my assignment finishes.

So you pay tax here then? Then you should have a vote!

Eve_Dublin

BastardPrince wrote: »

Firstly nobody forced anyone to leave. Secondly I have to put up with the measures a new government brings in, emigrants don't - it's hardly fair that we get the same say in how the country is run...

I flew home to vote from Spain. You're right, I wasn't literally forced on a plane out of the country but I couldn't find a job here so in a sense I was. At the time I didn't have a choice bar living at home with my parents and claiming job seekers allowance. It's a country I hope to return to within the next few years and I felt that the last party in power weren't handling the situation well and were fecking up my chances of ever being able to return home. Count your lucky stars you can stay here. I'm flying back in the morning and I feel sad about leaving a country and family I love. You've obviously no idea how that feels.

Eve_Dublin

BastardPrince wrote: »

So you pay tax here then? Then you should have a vote!

What about the 13 odd percent on the dole? Do they have a right to vote?

Irish_Elect_Eng

Question:

(1) Do prisoners have the right to vote?
(2) Does the state provide in-prison voting stations?
(3) Or is this right suspended until they are "free"?

I know that the UK was in strife with the EU over their no-vote-in-prison policy.

RandolphEsq

briano wrote: »

Well, I pay taxes in Ireland, my home is in Ireland and most of my family is there. I am overseas on assignment with my Irish Job and will be returning (probably) when my assignment finishes. For the record, I will be out of the country for less than a year, so it's not like I am trying to foist my opinions on "the old country" like some second generation plastic paddy sitting in a bar in Boston, if you will excuse the stereotype. But I feel like I have been disenfranchised, in part by my career and in part through the the regulations on who can and can't vote from overseas.

In all fairness, if you had registered for the postal vote facility earlier or else didn't book flights based on speculation you wouldn't have been unable to vote. The facilities are there to vote abroad, and on this occasion you got caught out

Technocentral wrote: »

I wouldn't expect much compassion or understanding from someone who has that Zionist rag on their posts.

Unfortunately, people like you, who are not properly educated, get the same amount of votes as I do.

Chardee MacDennis

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

What about the 13 odd percent on the dole? Do they have a right to vote?

Yup why wouldnt they?

Eve_Dublin

BastardPrince wrote: »

Yup why wouldnt they?

Perhaps I picked you up wrong but I got the impression you believed you should only be able to vote if currently you're paying taxes...

Chardee MacDennis

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I flew home to vote from Spain. You're right, I wasn't literally forced on a plane out of the country but I couldn't find a job here so in a sense I was. At the time I didn't have a choice bar living at home with my parents and claiming job seekers allowance. It's a country I hope to return to within the next few years and I felt that the last party in power weren't handling the situation well and were fecking up my chances of ever being able to return home. Count your lucky stars you can stay here. I'm flying back in the morning and I feel sad about leaving a country and family I love. You've obviously no idea how that feels.

There are job here, just obv jobs you didnt want so it was absolutely your choice. If i offered you a job in the services industry would you come home?

briano

RandolphEsq wrote: »

In all fairness, if you had registered for the postal vote facility earlier or else didn't book flights based on speculation you wouldn't have been unable to vote. The facilities are there to vote abroad, and on this occasion you got caught out

Not to go through all this again but

I tried to register for the postal vote. You have two days from the day that the election is called for your application to be received. Then you have to travel to a Garda station to get the postal ballot approved. I think that bears repeating - To vote from abroad, you need to go to a Garda station. These are few and far between outside of the Republic.

Secondly, again I mentioned this already, we booked flights home as soon as the election was called. Then the Greens pulled out and the election date was moved.

Both of these facts are beside the point in the original post; When people complain about 30% choosing not to vote or not having a right to complain about what happens, they should take into consideration that the government didn't exactly make it easy for people who, for one reason or another, were overseas

Cat Melodeon

watty wrote: »

I think people should vote and number ALL the boxes in at least the "least disliked to most disliked" order, but I'll defend their right to abstain.

I don't see why people should have to vote for candidates simply because they are on the ballot. I will never vote for Lowry or Sinn Fein but under your rules I would have to. Hardly fair. It's not a popularity contest, it's a selection process. Voters should not be forced to vote for the incompetent, unsuitable or corrupt. Better to vote for a single candidate or spoil your vote altogether if you don't fancy the other candidates.

Eve_Dublin

BastardPrince wrote: »

There are job here, just obv jobs you didnt want so it was absolutely your choice. If i offered you a job in the services industry would you come home?

You're making presumptions about me and you know nothing about me. I have a crap media degree and am only qualified to work in service industry jobs here. A vast majority of my jobs have been in the service industry. Are you offering me a position? In all honesty, I'd consider it.

Edit: I applied for about hundred positions 2 years ago. From administration to making sandwiches. Nothing.

Chardee MacDennis

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Perhaps I picked you up wrong but I got the impression you believed you should only be able to vote if currently you're paying taxes...

Well that would be a stupid position. Just saying if the op was paying tax in another country then that would be his country of residence...