US Vaccine makers immune from lawsuits

whiteonion

http://blog.pharmtech.com/2011/02/25/us-vaccine-act-upheld-in-court/ US vaccine makers are not liable for the side effects that might happen. They are allowed to sell unsafe products that might kill people and they cannot be sued for damages. What incentives do you think the vaccine makers have to manufacture safe products when the US government is protecting these companies and making sure they can't be sued? How "safe" do you think their products are?

pragmatic1

Considering the power of the FDA and the amount of legislation that regulates the pharmaceutical industry, I'd say very safe. Incentives would be profits lost if there are serious adverse effects associated with your product.

TeddyTedson

I know it's not, and you want people to seriously answer but your post looks like spam...

Einhard

whiteonion wrote: »

http://blog.pharmtech.com/2011/02/25/us-vaccine-act-upheld-in-court/ US vaccine makers are not liable for the side effects that might happen. They are allowed to sell unsafe products that might kill people and they cannot be sued for damages. What incentives do you think the vaccine makers have to manufacture safe products when the US government is protecting these companies and making sure they can't be sued? How "safe" do you think their products are?

Jesus, what a hysterical post. They aren't allowed to sell unsafe products. Vaccines undergo rigorous testing to make them as safe as possible before they are released. The reason they are immune from lawsuit is because vaccines cannot be made absolutely safe, but their benefits to society are so massive, and so greatly outweigh the risks, that w are prepared to bear the miniscule amount of negative reactions.

The incentive to make safe products is that anything that doesn't pass the rigorous safety standards will not make it to market, and anything that causes significant adverse affects will not pass muster on the market, and will fail This thread is based on a nonsense.

whiteonion

Einhard wrote: »

Jesus, what a hysterical post. They aren't allowed to sell unsafe products. Vaccines undergo rigorous testing to make them as safe as possible before they are released. The reason they are immune from lawsuit is because vaccines cannot be made absolutely safe, but their benefits to society are so massive, and so greatly outweigh the risks, that w are prepared to bear the miniscule amount of negative reactions.

The incentive to make safe products is that anything that doesn't pass the rigorous safety standards will not make it to market, and anything that causes significant adverse affects will not pass muster on the market, and will fail This thread is based on a nonsense.

Oh yeah like the "safe" swine flu vaccine that gave heaps of kids narcolepsy and some people contracted swine flu even though they got the vaccine. The vaccine industry is just a big scam, like everything else about big pharma it's a scam.

fontanalis

I thought the swine flu vaccine was a failure; as it didn't kill everyone like the troofers claimed.

pragmatic1

whiteonion wrote: »

Oh yeah like the "safe" swine flu vaccine that gave heaps of kids narcolepsy and some people contracted swine flu even though they got the vaccine. The vaccine industry is just a big scam, like everything else about big pharma it's a scam.

Yeah they just make it up as they go along. Next time you're ill dont bother with any medication and have the courage of your convictions.

whiteonion

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Yeah they just make it up as they go along. Next time you're ill dont bother with any medication and have the courage of your convictions.

I was on the verge of developing type 2-diabetes but I didn't get any pills or insulin, no I just stopped eating carbs. I don't even take paracetamol when I have a headache because that stuff messes up you liver. I have traveled in countries such as Thailand and China without getting vaccinated against the stuff you can get there. I don't trust doctor's in general.

Helix

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Yeah they just make it up as they go along. Next time you're ill dont bother with any medication and have the courage of your convictions.

like the above, i havent been to the doctor in years. imo people are destroying their immune systems with their pharma-happy approaches to health

last time i had medication was when i was having an operation to fix a broken foot

fontanalis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaOevcwiLIo

pragmatic1

whiteonion wrote: »

I was on the verge of developing type 2-diabetes but I didn't get any pills or insulin, no I just stopped eating carbs. I don't even take paracetamol when I have a headache because that stuff messes up you liver. I have traveled in countries such as Thailand and China without getting vaccinated against the stuff you can get there. I don't trust doctor's in general.

If you were on the verge of type two diabetes, obviously controling your diet is the way to go. See how long you would last as a type 2 diabetic without insulin. I rarely take paracetamol either, but I'm glad its an option. Not getting vaccinated before travel is fairly risky behaviour, but you're an adult and its your right.

Refusing vaccination becomes a problem when it starts to threaten herd immunity. It puts very young children and the elderly at risk. In 2011 we're seeing increases of diseases like whooping cough because of this nonsense.

pragmatic1

Helix wrote: »

like the above, i havent been to the doctor in years. imo people are destroying their immune systems with their pharma-happy approaches to health

last time i had medication was when i was having an operation to fix a broken foot

How exactly are they destroying their immune system.

whiteonion

pragmatic1 wrote: »

If you were on the verge of type two diabetes, obviously controling your diet is the way to go. See how long you would last as a type 2 diabetic without insulin. I rarely take paracetamol either, but I'm glad its an option. Not getting vaccinated before travel is fairly risky behaviour, but you're an adult and its your right.

Refusing vaccination becomes a problem when it starts to threaten herd immunity. It puts very young children and the elderly at risk. In 2011 we're seeing increases of diseases like whooping cough because of this nonsense.

If I'd develop type 2-diabetes I certainly would NOT take any insulin. I'd just go on a very low carb, high fat diet. I was never vaccinated against whopping cough. It's a childhood disease children go through. It's not dangerous. I had whopping cough but it didn't hurt me none.

pragmatic1

whiteonion wrote: »

If I'd develop type 2-diabetes I certainly would NOT take any insulin. I'd just go on a very low carb, high fat diet. I was never vaccinated against whopping cough. It's a childhood disease children go through. It's not dangerous. I had whopping cough but it didn't hurt me none.

I'm very glad you havent progressed to type 2 diabetes then because the complications associated with mismanagement of that condition are very severe. Anyone who isnt vaccinated can contract whooping cough. Healthy adults might be ok, people with compromised immune systems might not fair so well. Fairly high mortality rate for infants who themselves cant get immunised.

Whooping cough is only one of the easily preventable illnesses thats making a comeback.

My name is URL

OP has a bit of a history in posting medical scare stories. He recently posted in the Psychology forum about how Psychologists are modern day witch-doctors too.. just sayin

I'm no huge supporter of big-pharma btw. The reason drug companies are granted immunity is so that they agree to fund research and development into new vaccines, which would otherwise be too risky from a legal standpoint.

HQvhs

whiteonion wrote: »

If I'd develop type 2-diabetes I certainly would NOT take any insulin. I'd just go on a very low carb, high fat diet. I was never vaccinated against whopping cough. It's a childhood disease children go through. It's not dangerous. I had whopping cough but it didn't hurt me none.

Type 2 Diabetics often do not need to take insulin (in fact, it is also called Non-Insulin Dependent Diabetes Mellitus [NIDDM].
If, on the other hand, you developed Type 1 Diabetes (although it would be unusual to develop it late in life), you wouldn't last a few weeks with out Insulin as there is sudden auto-immune destruction of insulin-producing cells in your pancreas, and insulin is absolutely vital for life.
I wonder would you have the courage of your convictions then?

Einhard

whiteonion wrote: »

I was on the verge of developing type 2-diabetes but I didn't get any pills or insulin, no I just stopped eating carbs. I don't even take paracetamol when I have a headache because that stuff messes up you liver. I have traveled in countries such as Thailand and China without getting vaccinated against the stuff you can get there. I don't trust doctor's in general.

My God. The only good thing about this post is that you probably won't be around very much longer to spout this nonsense. I don't trust doctor's in general -as it that's some bloody badge of honour. You put the health of the rest of the community at risk because of your obstinate ignorance, and you act like you should get a bloody medal.

whiteonion wrote: »

If I'd develop type 2-diabetes I certainly would NOT take any insulin. I'd just go on a very low carb, high fat diet. I was never vaccinated against whopping cough. It's a childhood disease children go through. It's not dangerous. I had whopping cough but it didn't hurt me none.

Well aren't you the big man! Bet you have a massive knob as well. Seriously, what a ridiculous series of posts.

whiteonion

Why should I get a vaccine just because I'm going on a holiday? The fact that you can't sue vaccin manufactures for damages that their products might occur tells me that the cronies in government are protecting their friends in the industry from harm that their dodgy products are causing.

Overheal

Einhard wrote: »

Jesus, what a hysterical post. They aren't allowed to sell unsafe products. Vaccines undergo rigorous testing to make them as safe as possible before they are released. The reason they are immune from lawsuit is because vaccines cannot be made absolutely safe, but their benefits to society are so massive, and so greatly outweigh the risks, that w are prepared to bear the miniscule amount of negative reactions.

The incentive to make safe products is that anything that doesn't pass the rigorous safety standards will not make it to market, and anything that causes significant adverse affects will not pass muster on the market, and will fail This thread is based on a nonsense.

Heh, I almost laughed.

Not sure about vaccines now, but medicine they can and regularly do get things out to market which are unsafe. You see them on TV every 8th commercial for about a year, saying how great it helps you with your asthma, bla bla bla; "Side effects may include Asthma-related death, etc"; 2 years later a Law Firm runs a commercial asking anyone who has taken the drug to contact them for the class action lawsuit, since the drug has been recalled for causing pancreatic cancer or something like that.

Now that kind of thing does normally happen, and will when the pharmaceutical industry keeps trying to push the edge. Hell its how we got viagra, and a bunch of other strange things. But you could be the smarter one and not jump on every revolutionary drug that comes across the newsreel that promises to solve your swine flu fears.

But I digress, saying that this makes them untouchable is nonsense. from the article blog:

her parents were denied compensation via the Vaccine Court because they could not prove that their child’s condition was caused by the vaccination.

That's a pretty basic requirement of the law, I would think. To be held responsible it's pretty much a prerequisite that you prove they were, in fact, responsible.

The truth is Pharmas can and often are sued. Else why have such grandiose legal departments and class action lawsuits?

Gummy Panda

This thread reminds me of the MMR scare thread a few years back.

Once people had their doubts, no factual evidence would convince them.

kylith

whiteonion wrote: »

Why should I get a vaccine just because I'm going on a holiday?

To protect the rest of us! If you go on holiday without getting the correct vaccines and you contract Foaming Dog Fever, or whatever, when you come back you run the risk of infecting thousands of people who aren't vaccinated.

Take as many risks with your own life as you want, but don't expect us to cogratulate you for risking ours.

Einhard

Gummy Panda wrote: »

This thread reminds me of the MMR scare thread a few years back.

Once people had their doubts, no factual evidence would convince them.

G.K. Chesteron once wrote that, once people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing-they believe in anything. I don't know how accurate that is, but it certainly goes some way to explain how so many people can close ther minds to empirical evidence on such a range of issues.

whiteonion

Einhard wrote: »

G.K. Chesteron once wrote that, once people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing-they believe in anything. I don't know how accurate that is, but it certainly goes some way to explain how so many people can close ther minds to empirical evidence on such a range of issues.

I never recieved many of the vaccines that other people have recieved and now as an adult I'm much healthier then they are, I'm very rarely ill and I meet people who are weak and ill all the time. They've got vaccines and meds and they are ill very often. It seems it is their medication and vaccines that are making them ill and weak.

pragmatic1

whiteonion wrote: »

I never recieved many of the vaccines that other people have recieved and now as an adult I'm much healthier then they are, I'm very rarely ill and I meet people who are weak and ill all the time. They've got vaccines and meds and they are ill very often. It seems it is their medication and vaccines that are making them ill and weak.

Just a question. What exactly do you think vaccines contain.

kylith

whiteonion wrote: »

I never recieved many of the vaccines that other people have recieved and now as an adult I'm much healthier then they are, I'm very rarely ill and I meet people who are weak and ill all the time. They've got vaccines and meds and they are ill very often. It seems it is their medication and vaccines that are making them ill and weak.

Or perhaps they're taking medication because they're ill and weak. I never missed a vaccination and I am rarely ill.

I was, however, in school with a girl who died because she hadn't been vaccinated against meningitis, so I really don't think that vaccinations are unnecessary. When I was offered the vaccination I jumped at the chance, and if I were eligable for the HPV vaccine I would jump at the chance to get that one too.

whiteonion

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Just a question. What exactly do you think vaccines contain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal Looks like vaccines still contain mercury. Now mercury is good for you isn't it?

Tar.Aldarion

whiteonion wrote: »

I never recieved many of the vaccines that other people have recieved and now as an adult I'm much healthier then they are, I'm very rarely ill and I meet people who are weak and ill all the time. They've got vaccines and meds and they are ill very often. It seems it is their medication and vaccines that are making them ill and weak.

Your survey of 1 is highly intriguing and I suggest you send in a paper to some medical journals. I look forward to your future research, regards.

kylith

whiteonion wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal Looks like vaccines still contain mercury. Now mercury is good for you isn't it?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative that is added to vials of vaccine that contain more than one dose to prevent contamination and growth of potentially harmful bacteria.

Gee, stopping bacteria growing is a bad thing, is it?

Also:http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091017183743AAybmGw
There is more mercury in a tin of tuna than in the swine flu vaccine.

whiteonion

kylith wrote: »

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative that is added to vials of vaccine that contain more than one dose to prevent contamination and growth of potentially harmful bacteria.

Gee, stopping bacteria growing is a bad thing, is it?

Also:http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091017183743AAybmGw
There is more mercury in a tin of tuna than in the swine flu vaccine.

Yes killing bacteria can be a bad thing, for example antibiotics are known to give people stomach problems.

pragmatic1

whiteonion wrote: »

Yes killing bacteria can be a bad thing, for example antibiotics are known to give people stomach problems.

Strangley enough bacteria have been known to cause sore bellies.

kylith

whiteonion wrote: »

Yes killing bacteria can be a bad thing, for example antibiotics are known to give people stomach problems.

Is fear of an upset stomach a good reason to risk death becase you didn't take antibiotics? If I have to choose between an upset stomach and vomiting, diahorreah, fever, extreme pain, and possibly death, I'll take the stomach problems, thanks.

Manic Moran

The other point to note about the ruling is that part of the reason that SCOTUS (And every lower court) ruled against was that it was the wrong forum. The correct place to sue for compensation against vaccine side-effects is the US Court of Federal Claims, not the federal district court system and the apellate tiers. It's a part of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

NTM

My name is URL

whiteonion wrote: »

Yes killing bacteria can be a bad thing, for example antibiotics are known to give people stomach problems.

As a result of them killing bacteria?

At the end of the day it's your own body and you can do what you want with it, but I seriously doubt that you'd refuse medical intervention if you suddenly developed a serious illness. Opting not to get vaccinated is one thing, herd immunity will still protect you, and not taking painkillers is a common enough choice that people make, but would you be distrustful of a blood transfusion after a serious accident or chemotherapy after a cancer diagnosis?

whiteonion

My name is URL wrote: »

As a result of them killing bacteria?

At the end of the day it's your own body and you can do what you want with it, but I seriously doubt that you'd refuse medical intervention if you suddenly developed a serious illness. Opting not to get vaccinated is one thing, herd immunity will still protect you, and not taking painkillers is a common enough choice that people make, but would you be distrustful of a blood transfusion after a serious accident or chemotherapy after a cancer diagnosis?

I would not be to distrustful of a blood transfusion but I would not undergo chemotherapy, since chemo seems to make things worse for many cancer patients.

Turtwig

Overheal wrote: »

Heh, I almost laughed.

Not sure about vaccines now, but medicine they can and regularly do get things out to market which are unsafe. You see them on TV every 8th commercial for about a year, saying how great it helps you with your asthma, bla bla bla; "Side effects may include Asthma-related death, etc"; 2 years later a Law Firm runs a commercial asking anyone who has taken the drug to contact them for the class action lawsuit, since the drug has been recalled for causing pancreatic cancer or something like that.

While what you are saying is true, to be fair to our health practitioners they rarely, if ever, prescribe any of the drugs you see on tv and with good reason. Most of stuff advertised on tv is fluff that exploits soft broadcasting rules. People buying drugs they see on tv is almost the exact same as people who don't bother following medical advice.

Logical Fallacy

whiteonion wrote: »

If I'd develop type 2-diabetes I certainly would NOT take any insulin. I'd just go on a very low carb, high fat diet. I was never vaccinated against whopping cough. It's a childhood disease children go through. It's not dangerous. I had whopping cough but it didn't hurt me none.

lol, "Whooping Cough" - it kills about 30,000 people a year. It's a bacteria which causes server issues in the respiratory system. About 1 in 200 babies who get it will die, about 2 in 200 will develop severe seizaures, and about 11% of people who contract it will end up dealing with pneumonia issues.

I am well aware of your stance on all things medical but you really should attempt to show some understanding of these things if you plan on being so publicly opinionated about them.

Pace2008

whiteonion wrote: »

If I'd develop type 2-diabetes I certainly would NOT take any insulin. I'd just go on a very low carb, high fat diet. I was never vaccinated against whopping cough. It's a childhood disease children go through. It's not dangerous. I had whopping cough but it didn't hurt me none.

I smoke 10-20 cigarettes a day. I have not yet suffered any ill health effects as a result. Therefore, smoking tobacco is in fact safe, despite the caveats from those involved in the health industry.

This is a fair and logical assertion by your standards, aye?

kylith

whiteonion wrote: »

I would not be to distrustful of a blood transfusion but I would not undergo chemotherapy, since chemo seems to make things worse for many cancer patients.

How so? Chemo is no barrel of laughs, but it's better than the alternative. Again: if the choice is between temporary intense crapness or permanent death the vast majority will choose the crapness.

partyatmygaff

OP what do you think of Homeopathy? You'd seem the type to believe in nonsense such as water memory.

mohawk

whiteonion wrote: »

Oh yeah like the "safe" swine flu vaccine that gave heaps of kids narcolepsy and some people contracted swine flu even though they got the vaccine. The vaccine industry is just a big scam, like everything else about big pharma it's a scam.

Yeahvaccines are a scam look at all those people dying of smallpox these days...oh wait it was eradicated years ago by a worldwide vaccine programme

Fremen

whiteonion wrote: »

I never recieved many of the vaccines that other people have recieved and now as an adult I'm much healthier then they are, I'm very rarely ill and I meet people who are weak and ill all the time. They've got vaccines and meds and they are ill very often. It seems it is their medication and vaccines that are making them ill and weak.

You're mixing up cause and effect. They're not sick because they're on meds, they're on meds because they're sick. You're also extrapolating from a single data point. My sister only has one leg therefore all women only have one leg.

I suppose you think we can all heal ourselves with the power of prayer or some such nonsense.

fontanalis

partyatmygaff wrote: »

OP what do you think of Homeopathy? You'd seem the type to believe in nonsense such as water memory.

Apparently the excrement that works it's way into water and is retained has great healing properties.

whiteonion

partyatmygaff wrote: »

OP what do you think of Homeopathy? You'd seem the type to believe in nonsense such as water memory.

No I don't believe in homeopathy.

My name is URL

whiteonion wrote: »

No I don't believe in homeopathy.

How come you have so much faith in the stories which you start threads about while at the same time none in the medical establishment?