A New Generation of Irish Republicans?

paky

Do todays results, which show more than a doubling of support for Sinn Fein, indicate a new generation of Irish Republicans in Ireland?

guangzhu

no just lost ffrs

KeithAFC

The vast majority are Irish republicans anyway aren't they? Do Sinn Fein have the only card which allows you to call yourself Irish and republican?

Dr. Baltar

Not necessarily. I think it simply shows a shift to a new style of politics. Sinn Féin are not a one trick pony.

imme

yet another SF thread:)

No, I don't see that the election of Barron Gerry (who is older than the man who held a seat for SF in Louth before him) signifies a passing of the torch to a new generation of standard bearers.

10 seats is still comparatively small in Dail terms.

paky

imme wrote: »

yet another SF thread:)

No, I don't see that the election of Barron Gerry (who is older than the man who held a seat for SF in Louth before him) signifies a passing of the torch to a new generation of standard bearers.

10 seats is still comparatively small in Dail terms.

whoes voting for them then iyo?

lugha

paky wrote: »

Do todays results, which show more than a doubling of support for Sinn Fein, indicate a new generation of Irish Republicans in Ireland?

Doubling seats from a low base doesn't in itself mean a great deal. The PDs doubled their seats in 2002 but were gone 7 years later.
Only time will tell if SF maintain this, in particular when, or if, the good times return.

imme

paky wrote: »

whoes voting for them then iyo?

disenfranchised people, angry people, people who remember and care about who died in 1981 in hunger strikes.

KeithAFC

imme wrote: »

disenfranchised people, angry people, people who remember and care about who died in 1981 in hunger strikes.

I agree. Good post.

TweekeewT

imme wrote: »

disenfranchised people, angry people, people who remember and care about who died in 1981 in hunger strikes.

people voting for the first time who are too young to remember the bombing campaigns...

Seloth

Allot of people I know gave them a vote as Gerry Adams said himself they were in government to cause the problem and many people take that to heart.

Be it a legitimate reason or not thats why theres an increase for SF..Not a rise in Republicanism.

Wolfe Tone

I would consider myself as part of a new generation of Irish republicans, there is lots of support among the young

dan_d

How much of that support is borne of ignorance, and not having lived through the bombing in Northern Ireland?

I don't care what SF do or don't do.They are a terrorist organisation.And I'm only 28, so I haven't even lived through the worst of things.The number of seats they got actually worries me.

Lefticus Loonaticus

dan_d wrote: »

How much of that support is borne of ignorance, and not having lived through the bombing in Northern Ireland?

I don't care what SF do or don't do.They are a terrorist organisation.And I'm only 28, so I haven't even lived through the worst of things.The number of seats they got actually worries me.

You kinda forgot to mention the fact that northern ireland was a facist regime involved in human rights abuses aginst irish people. That dosent justify killing innocent people, but surely it should be taken into account considering all terrorism is born out of state terrorism to begin with.

Also, the worst terrorism on this island occured by way of other political parties(FF). The magdalane laundries + the ryan report anyone?

PatsytheNazi

imme wrote: »

yet another SF thread:)

No, I don't see that the election of Barron Gerry (who is older than the man who held a seat for SF in Louth before him) signifies a passing of the torch to a new generation of standard bearers.

10 seats is still comparatively small in Dail terms.

Looks more like 15. Not bad from a party that only had 4 seats back in October. Also they were often the runner up in many constituency's. In four years time they will could easily double the 15 or so. And they will also have the "bounce" factor. Formidable force in Irish politics, no question about.

PatsytheNazi

lugha wrote: »

Doubling seats from a low base doesn't in itself mean a great deal. The PDs doubled their seats in 2002 but were gone 7 years later.
Only time will tell if SF maintain this, in particular when, or if, the good times return.

I would have thought that the PD's and SF couldn't possible come from two different ends of Irish political life. The PD's were mostly ex FFers who left more out of political ambitions and personal annomosity than any real political vlaues. That's why they jumped into bed with their former rivals in FF at the first oppurtunity and then went on to enjoy the priviliges of office with $600 hair do's etc just like an FFer would.

Whether people like them or not, SF couldn't have wished for more in this election. They now have a considerable block in the Dail, they will make full capital of their position as been the leading opposition. And they also have some young capable speakers besides Pearse Doherty giving the party a good image, such as Sandra McLellan elected in Cork East coming through.

Like them or not, they haven't gone away you know !!!

lugha

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Whether people like them or not, SF couldn't have wished for more in this election. They now have a considerable block in the Dail, they will make full capital of their position as been the leading opposition.

First, as well as they have done, they will not be the main opposition. That could yet be Labour and if not, it will be FF.

And it remains to be seen if there gains are much more than an understandable lurch to the left in austere times. Of the top of my head I can think of 6 similar TDs (2 PBP,2 sp and ind. in Waterford and Tipp) and I'm sure there is more.
Of course, the political landscape has changed and perhaps this taste for the left will be permanent. But I doubt it.
In which case, the question remains as towhat do SF have to offer in the long term, assuming they don't move to the centre as others have done before them.

dan_d

dan_d wrote: »

How much of that support is borne of ignorance, and not having lived through the bombing in Northern Ireland?

I don't care what SF do or don't do.They are a terrorist organisation.And I'm only 28, so I haven't even lived through the worst of things.The number of seats they got actually worries me.

I completely agree with this. As long as people like Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are involved with Sinn Fein I will always associate the party with terrorism and criminalism. The thoughts of Sinn Fein growing as a party in the next 5-10 years is sickening.

Dannyboy83

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I would consider myself as part of a new generation of Irish republicans, there is lots of support among the young

Really?
I would have said the exact opposite tbh.
In fact, I've been very surprised by the amount of sub-30yos who are entirely ignorant of politics.

Wolfe Tone

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Really?
I would have said the exact opposite tbh.
In fact, I've been very surprised by the amount of sub-30yos who are entirely ignorant of politics.

I can only speak about the young people I know, most of a similar age to myself, 19/20

rainbowdash

Zackary Gifted Scalpel wrote: »

I completely agree with this. As long as people like Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are involved with Sinn Fein I will always associate the party with terrorism and criminalism. The thoughts of Sinn Fein growing as a party in the next 5-10 years is sickening.

Does Pat Rabbittes background cause you any difficulty in what you associate the Labour party with?

People need to leave the Adams / McGuinness past behind at this stage, if the Ulster Unionists can put it behind them then so should everybody else.

I don't understand Sinn Feins internal structure but I would say Adams will remain as president (or maybe not) but either way Sinn Fein will have a new face as leader in the Dail soon enough.

I also think they will be the main opposition party assuming Labour go into government.

FF might have the majority on numbers but a lot of them won't be be in a position to do much about the future of the party at this stage, they will be ridiculed from both the government and the opposition as the root of all evil and with no safety in numbers won't be up to much.

What struck me about SF over the last few days was the age profile of all their candidates, young and ambitious, compared to Willie O'Dea for example they will have 100 times more energy than FF TD's.

alan85

disenfranchised people, angry people, people who remember and care about who died in 1981 in hunger strikes.

I can only speak for myself on this account. I voted SF in GE11. I think the majority of the country feel disenfranchised(that would explain FG's victory 'cause they certainly didn't win on policy as there is no difference), I'm not angry that I would allow emotion rule my preference and of course I care about the hunger stikes but that wouldn't rule my vote either.

The reason I voted SF this time around is I admired their backbone in relation to more action on the IMF/EU deal (I know absolute default is unlikely but something in between would be nice). They also argued for more fairness when it comes to tax and affects on society at large. When you see Drumm pay 10K on 10 Million there is something systemically wrong.

I realise the arguements to do with bank hoists and murders. But I can only speak from my own experiences. As somebody that travels to a perdominantly unionist area in the north on a regular basis I admire Adams, McGuinness, Trimble and I hate to admit it; Paisley. The peace process is working. As an Irish republican I am treated with respect in an area that has UVF murals. I get on with the people there... Put it this way, I prefer them in government than I do out of. And their left wing bias strikes a chord with me...

Fitzerb

imme wrote: »

disenfranchised people, angry people, people who remember and care about who died in 1981 in hunger strikes.

I care greatly about the memory of the hunger strikers who made the ultimate sacrifice for this Country but I would never vote for a party with Ferris or Adams involved in it. The both have besmirched the names of true republican volunteers by the behaviour over the years.
I sure Bobby Sands would have turned in his grave at the behaviour of so called “republicans” who dragged our national flag along the floors of the RDS. I never witnessed anything like it before except at Irish soccer matches when supporters were drunk. This was a National event and deserved to be respected as such. But SF and respect don’t really go hand in hand

Fitzerb

alan85 wrote: »

I can only speak for myself on this account. I voted SF in GE11. I think the majority of the country feel disenfranchised(that would explain FG's victory 'cause they certainly didn't win on policy as there is no difference), I'm not angry that I would allow emotion rule my preference and of course I care about the hunger stikes but that wouldn't rule my vote either.

The reason I voted SF this time around is I admired their backbone in relation to more action on the IMF/EU deal (I know absolute default is unlikely but something in between would be nice). They also argued for more fairness when it comes to tax and affects on society at large. When you see Drumm pay 10K on 10 Million there is something systemically wrong.

I realise the arguements to do with bank hoists and murders. But I can only speak from my own experiences. As somebody that travels to a perdominantly unionist area in the north on a regular basis I admire Adams, McGuinness, Trimble and I hate to admit it; Paisley. The peace process is working. As an Irish republican I am treated with respect in an area that has UVF murals. I get on with the people there... Put it this way, I prefer them in government than I do out of. And their left wing bias strikes a chord with me...

thats a fair and balanced post. A lot of people took great risks to be peace to Ireland including FF who were the only party south of the border to encourage the process along the way for many years.

Fitzerb

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I can only speak about the young people I know, most of a similar age to myself, 19/20

As I thought the celtic tiger cubs who only ever had good days. Its understandable but when you mature you will view it differently

Icepick

It indicates that there are more unemployed people blaming foreigners.

Wildlife Actor

Not sure whether the OP can ever expect a reply as such.

What is republican? And does it really have anything to do with the issues at play today?

"Republicanism" does not import a nationalistic or jingoistic approach to economic or any other policy. It is about a system of government - for example, proportionate representataion is "more republican" than first past the post. Arguably, a republican would oppose reduction in the number of TDs (though the present system means that independents get little or no talk time in the Dail, so perhaps it's a bad argument).

Is the question really about socialism?

And perhaps we should have a separate thread to help Wolfe Tone work out what age he is: he seems to be unsure.

alan85

Fitzerb wrote: »

I sure Bobby Sands would have turned in his grave at the behaviour of so called “republicans” who dragged our national flag along the floors of the RDS. I never witnessed anything like it before except at Irish soccer matches when supporters were drunk. This was a National event and deserved to be respected as such. But SF and respect don’t really go hand in hand

I saw similar scenes from FG. I think, coincidentally, it was in Louth. The FG candidate elected swung a tricolour around his neck when elected. I don't take offense as such to that. I think patriotism can be taken too far. It's a bit like cursing. It's the sentiment that goes along with it that carries the meaning for me...

Maybe, you're letting your emotion rule your head. You seem cut up about something. Are you a FF head possibly?

Fitzerb

alan85 wrote: »

I saw similar scenes from FG. I think, coincidentally, it was in Louth. The FG candidate elected swung a tricolour around his neck when elected. I don't take offense as such to that. I think patriotism can be taken too far. It's a bit like cursing. It's the sentiment that goes along with it that carries the meaning for me...

Maybe, you're letting your emotion rule your head. You seem cut up about something. Are you a FF head possibly?

I dont get over excited about elections , they come and they go and FF got what it earned and will come back from yesterday. The result will prove to be the best thing to happen to them as it offers an opportunity to do a root and branch clean ot. Had they won 30 seats they would only tinker around the issues. They have no choice now but to re-organise totally and move on to operating in a different Ireland from the 70's.
However, regardless of who is in power our National Flag should be respected a little more than it was. I do understand the excitement of counts and I have attened them in the past and in fairness people have workd very hard to get someone elected so you can understand some of the antics. But the respect someone shows for their National Flag tells me something about them. Patriotism for me is very important and considering that the SF people cliam behave like no-one else can claim to be Irish unless they support SF makes it a little harder to take. Actually if I am totally honest I see them as nothing more than gurriers.

belacqua_

alan85 wrote: »

I saw similar scenes from FG. I think, coincidentally, it was in Louth. The FG candidate elected swung a tricolour around his neck when elected.

I saw that, Fergus O'Dowd and Gerry Adams trying to out-republican one another.

Firetrap

I don't think so. SF's rise was more to do with a combination of protest voting, SF's work on the ground in deprived areas and being able to put up for election candidates who don't appear to have shady republican pasts. Not all candidates obviously...

I think the electorate tends to vote depending on how things affect them personally and the lovely job that FF did to the country has hit practically everyone here in the pocket. The situation in northern Ireland doesn't affect the vast majority of people living in the south. While there are people who would like to see a united Ireland, they are probably far more concerned about mundane things like putting bread on the table, jobs and emigration.

Wolfe Tone

Fitzerb wrote: »

As I thought the celtic tiger cubs who only ever had good days. Its understandable but when you mature you will view it differently

Dont be so condescending, or cast doubts on my, or other peoples maturity.

Fitzerb

belacqua_ wrote: »

I saw that, Fergus O'Dowd and Gerry Adams trying to out-republican one another.

The scary one for me was Ming............. Dont know much about him and only caught the footage on TV today of his election count. He seems a looper. I reckon there could be some funny days ahead

Lefticus Loonaticus

Fitzerb wrote: »

The scary one for me was Ming............. Dont know much about him and only caught the footage on TV today of his election count. He seems a looper. I reckon there could be some funny days ahead

Not everyone has your preference of hairstyle or ideology, no need to be a spoiled little brat about it. Ming will do a great job representing the hundreds of thousands of people who smoke weed, and who up until now have been unrepresented by spineless politicians.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Fitzerb wrote: »

The scary one for me was Ming............. Dont know much about him and only caught the footage on TV today of his election count. He seems a looper. I reckon there could be some funny days ahead

Listen to him speak on the radio or some of his documentaries. He has a funny beard and long hair but he's definitely not a nut. Out of all election seats I was happiest he got in.

Nodin

Aye, he's been plugging away down there for years. Fair play to him.

alan85

I was reading that the FF Fahy that lost his seat in Ming's constituency evicted Ming's family when he was a child. If that is true I'm delighted for Ming. He seems like a guy full of passion and conviction. There's nothing nutty about that. It's to be admired!

deise go deo

dan_d wrote: »

How much of that support is borne of ignorance, and not having lived through the bombing in Northern Ireland?

I don't care what SF do or don't do.They are a terrorist organisation.And I'm only 28, so I haven't even lived through the worst of things.The number of seats they got actually worries me.

Dont be so overdramatic, SF has left voilence behind long ago, As you should well know.

You may hate everything about them, but calling them terrorists, when it is clearly not true in any way is just silly.

KeithAFC

Its amazing how Gerry Adams still talks about equality. The guy talks like he is in the 1960s and what is shameful is people listen to it and vote for it. Amazing really. Saw his interview yesterday, he wants to unite orange and green. We don't want to unite with you gerry.

alan85

Its amazing how Gerry Adams still talks about equality. The guy talks like he is in the 1960s and what is shameful is people listen to it and vote for it. Amazing really. Saw his interview yesterday, he wants to unite orange and green. We don't want to unite with you gerry.

The gap between rich and poor is ever expanding. It holds more relevance today than at any other time I think. I don't see anything wrong in bringing people together but he will have quite a job on his hands convincing people of the north to become a united Ireland. North and South are very integrated anyways. It's a technicality what jurisdiction or government it comes under... So long as equality and fairness is there it doesn't matter really...

walrusgumble

dan_d wrote: »

How much of that support is borne of ignorance, and not having lived through the bombing in Northern Ireland?

I don't care what SF do or don't do.They are a terrorist organisation.And I'm only 28, so I haven't even lived through the worst of things.The number of seats they got actually worries me.

you really really really sound like you wish that the war was still on, so you can pin point all blame on SF, as if they were the sole responsible people for what went on. The war is over, bringing up the past, regarding Sinn Fein has completely failed. They are on the rise in both regions. THe IRa have gone. The Unionists are working with Sinn Fein, so why can't people move on, (the whatabouterrys are good with this tag line when responding to arguments made by Shinners)

What part of the North were you from? The Sinn Féin organisation was never deemed illegal in the 1960-Present. The UK governments had no qualms meeting members in secret back then.

You really think the Armalite and vote is coming back? The IRA will come back in big force? Now if you were scared of SF economic policies, ah well then, fair enough.

walrusgumble

alan85 wrote: »

I was reading that the FF Fahy that lost his seat in Ming's constituency evicted Ming's family when he was a child. If that is true I'm delighted for Ming. He seems like a guy full of passion and conviction. There's nothing nutty about that. It's to be admired!

As in Frank Fahy? Of Galway?

Ming is in Castlerea Roscommon, unless he lived in Galway for some time.

I will be glad when he wipes the smirk of people's faces when he shows that he is not an idiot. Best of luck, it has taken him a long time (remember the Euros in the late 1990's early 00's) for people to take him seriously. I really hope he does a great job

walrusgumble

Fitzerb wrote: »

The scary one for me was Ming............. Dont know much about him and only caught the footage on TV today of his election count. He seems a looper. I reckon there could be some funny days ahead

Castlrea would not have got all the big shops etc in Roscommon, most would have gone to places like Roscommon Town. I know the notion of campagining to get the likes of Tescos, proper swimming pools, genuine voluntary work to get the youth doing something in the summer, genuine assistance for farmers and the ridiculous EU laws on turf cutting might seem small change, but it is not the work of loopers. It might not sound all fancy for the urbanites, but Ming has genuinely emersed himself in local campaigning and is proud of his county. Any one remeber the kinda of embarrassing news of old school Rossie Councillors getting fierce annoyed when Ming stood up for his principles by refusing, as mayor, to say a few prayers before meetings.

People like Dennis Naughten will want to keep his nose clean after last summer, and may not be able to push Enda over problems in the Roscommon area all the time, so it will be good that Ming will. Of, course, there are plenty of other pressing national issues to deal with

He is not a nutty as you think.

c_man

walrusgumble wrote: »

As in Frank Fahy? Of Galway?

Ming is in Castlerea Roscommon, unless he lived in Galway for some time

He did. Ming first ran (in '97 IIRC) in Galway West.

KeithAFC

alan85 wrote: »

The gap between rich and poor is ever expanding. It holds more relevance today than at any other time I think. I don't see anything wrong in bringing people together but he will have quite a job on his hands convincing people of the north to become a united Ireland. North and South are very integrated anyways. It's a technicality what jurisdiction or government it comes under... So long as equality and fairness is there it doesn't matter really...

That isn't what he means and that is just natural. The poor get poor, the rich get richer. Always been that way.

Gerry Adams even mentioned the hunger strikers. He is always just about one cause. Never mentions the loyalist Ulster people who have resisted Dublin rule and made the ultimare sacrifices.

Fitzerb

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

Not everyone has your preference of hairstyle or ideology, no need to be a spoiled little brat about it. Ming will do a great job representing the hundreds of thousands of people who smoke weed, and who up until now have been unrepresented by spineless politicians.

And please dont forget the turf cutters association of Ireland. Hes there number one man

Fitzerb

alan85 wrote: »

I was reading that the FF Fahy that lost his seat in Ming's constituency evicted Ming's family when he was a child. If that is true I'm delighted for Ming. He seems like a guy full of passion and conviction. There's nothing nutty about that. It's to be admired!

Where do you come up with them.

Fahy evicted his family, and I suppose burned down the thatch roof........... jesus this is getting scary

Fitzerb

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Listen to him speak on the radio or some of his documentaries. He has a funny beard and long hair but he's definitely not a nut. Out of all election seats I was happiest he got in.

As I said in my post I dont know much about him its just the way he behaved on his election was way over the top. Not the only one but it was scary to watch. But to be fair I hear he has done some outstanding work locally.
I did hear him on the radio this evening and I was not impressed. I also saw him on TV talking about about his turf cutting protest. I really think we need a little more input to solving our problems other than turf cutting.
However as I said lets not be unfair to him he got a great vote so lets see how he does

Fitzerb

deise go deo wrote: »

Dont be so overdramatic, SF has left voilence behind long ago, As you should well know.

You may hate everything about them, but calling them terrorists, when it is clearly not true in any way is just silly.

Are we all just supposed to just forgive them for the murders that their members in the IRA committed?
Do you not find it absolutely amazing that the SF posters and yourself included cannot forgive Ahearn for his suicide remarks but you expect all and sundry just to wipe the slate clean for the IRA and move on.
As a matter of interest my view is simple. The Garda in this country do an outstanding job in protecting the citizens of this State. They are entitled to our full support and as citizens we are duty bound to give it. SF completed a deal on the GF agreement and the Nation voted on it. Weeks after making that agreement the IRA shot Jerry McCabe dead, one of the Garda that protected us.
Surely out of simple respect for his wife who is still alive SF should not receive one vote from the decent people of this Country. I can’t even begin to imagine how that woman feels watching SF over the weekend.

maccored

Fitzerb wrote: »

Are we all just supposed to just forgive them for the murders that their members in the IRA committed?
Do you not find it absolutely amazing that the SF posters and yourself included cannot forgive Ahearn for his suicide remarks but you expect all and sundry just to wipe the slate clean for the IRA and move on.
As a matter of interest my view is simple. The Garda in this country do an outstanding job in protecting the citizens of this State. They are entitled to our full support and as citizens we are duty bound to give it. SF completed a deal on the GF agreement and the Nation voted on it. Weeks after making that agreement the IRA shot Jerry McCabe dead, one of the Garda that protected us.
Surely out of simple respect for his wife who is still alive SF should not receive one vote from the decent people of this Country. I can’t even begin to imagine how that woman feels watching SF over the weekend.

The IRA dont exist.

Please dont try and simplify everything that happened in the north by talking about it being the fault of the IRA, Sinn Fein or republicans or any shade. its a tad more complicated than that. Theres plenty of families in the north who suffered the deaths of relative due to loyalists and the army, so Im sure they get just as annoyed seeing the DUP et all elected in the north or any british party being elected in the UK

alan85

Please dont try and simplify everything that happened in the north by talking about it being the fault of the IRA, Sinn Fein or republicans or any shade. its a tad more complicated than that. Theres plenty of families in the north who suffered the deaths of relative due to loyalists and the army, so Im sure they get just as annoyed seeing the DUP et all elected in the north or any british party being elected in the UK

True and to add to that it was FF that pushed for SF to be in power in the North. You are full of it Fitzerb... It's your party's one trump card for your 14 years in government that you hear before anything else "We brought peace to the island"... That was only with SF's and other's agreement. Now that they are not only past the garden gate but entering the front door you're worried. And rightly so 'cause this whirlwind you find yourselves in won't abate any time soon. You will feel the wrath of people for years to come. They will always associate FF, economic disaster and massive cuts hand in hand....