thinking of becoming a pescetarian

paky

hi

ive been vegan for well over a year now. im finding it kinda boaring and i feel like a change. i was thinking of incorporating fish or eggs.
can any of you offer me some advice as im feeling lost

paky

NecroSteve

I say get some recipe books. What is it that you find boring exactly?

Jim

Do you mind me asking why you're thinking of adding fish and eggs to your diet? Surely it would defeat the purpose of deciding not to eat meat etc in the first place.

paky

i just feel week and scrawny even though i train alot. i may just add eggs come to think of it. not big fan of fish but will still keep away of milk and meat.

Kadongy

Lamb's liver would probably be the best source of the minerals you're likely to be deficient in.

seamus

Kadongy wrote: »

Lamb's liver would probably be the best source of the minerals you're likely to be deficient in.

The insides of an immature sheep are probably a bit of a leap for a vegetarian.

Eggs are as good a source of protein as you can get. If you actually feel weak then it may be worth a trip to the doctor to see if there's anything medically wrong with you.

If you mean that you don't feel like you're getting any stronger despite training, then it's probably worth getting some advice from a professional trainer or coach. If you're a member of a gym, most gyms have coaches on staff that will help you for free.

Aoifey!

As above a trip to the doctor might be good, just to make sure there's no underlying reason. If you think eating eggs again is what you need to do to feel healthy again then that's up to you. Going back to fish and meat would be a massive change in your diet.

Blisterman

I don't really get this. If you're going to go from being a vegetarian to eating meat, best thing would be beef. Kill one cow and you're eating for months, whereas to get the same amount of meat, you'd have to kill dozens of fish.

paky

i wont be killing anything (only people).

Ice.

paky wrote: »

i just feel week and scrawny even though i train alot. i may just add eggs come to think of it. not big fan of fish but will still keep away of milk and meat.

By the sounds of it you're not eating enough calories. It would be helpful if you told us what a typical day's diet looked like. Also what kind of training do you do?

paky

Ice. wrote: »

By the sounds of it you're not eating enough calories. It would be helpful if you told us what a typical day's diet looked like. Also what kind of training do you do?

yesterday was like this.

breakfast:
half pound spinach, 2 oranges and 1 banana

lunch
veggie burger, potatoes, veg

snack
6 packs of aldi rice cakes

snack
bag of red skin peanuts

dinner
can a beans, 4 slice a toast and more potatoes

i eat about 3-4000 calories a day but i train around 4-5 days a week (triathlon) so that burns most of it

seamus

My initial reaction says "too many carbs, not enough fat or protein", but that depends - how big is a bag of red skin peanuts and how big is a can of beans?

flikflak

paky wrote: »

hi

ive been vegan for well over a year now. im finding it kinda boaring and i feel like a change. i was thinking of incorporating fish or eggs.
can any of you offer me some advice as im feeling lost

paky

This is a vegetarian/vegan board. Vegetarians/vegans dont eat fish. Maybe try posting on the health and fitness board for more advice or get some cook books and expand your horizons a bit?

Your diet does look very boring if you are eating that everyday. Where are your chills, currys, casseroles, soups, mixed grain salads, and the 1000`s of other things you can eat as a vegan/veggie? Check out the stickies at the top of this board for links to recipes.

paky

flikflak wrote: »

This is a vegetarian/vegan board. Vegetarians/vegans dont eat fish.

really?

flikflak wrote: »

Maybe try posting on the health and fitness board for more advice or get some cook books and expand your horizons a bit?

Your diet does look very boring if you are eating that everyday. Where are your chills, currys, casseroles, soups, mixed grain salads, and the 1000`s of other things you can eat as a vegan/veggie?

considering im a student, such things are luxuries, maybe i can email you my bank details so you can donate some money to me?

flikflak wrote: »

Check out the stickies at the top of this board for links to recipes.

thanks for the advice

seamus

paky wrote: »

really?

Yes.
Pescatarian is not vegetarian

considering im a student, such things are luxuries

Books? Or Chillies and Curries?

Because the latter is far cheaper than most other things if you make them yourself at home.

Kadongy

lots of lentils and chick peas.
curried lentils and chick peas are nice, and they are cheap.
you can make a big batch that will last 6-8 meals so it is time efficient also - reheats well in a microwave, and freezes well too.
They can be *nice* too [your diet looks horrible]. I am not a vegetarian but a lentil curry I make is one of my favourite things to eat.

I agree you aren't getting enough protein, never mind numerous micronutrients. Lentils are extremely nutritious, and as good a source of protein as meat (when combined with grains). You also dont seem to be eating much fat, [though veggie burgers can be loaded with it]

Rice cakes are not nutritious btw. I would say you are deficient in all sorts of nutrients. Even a well-planned vegan diet is likely to be lacking in several ways - and yours appears arbitrary and uninformed.

paky

what are chillies anyway?

flikflak

paky wrote: »

what are chillies anyway?

http://vegweb.com/index.php?board=579.0

I really would suggest you doing more research into a balanced and varied diet be that vegan/vegetarian or whatever you decide.

As for your earlier comment about the cost of things I manage to buy mostly organic fruit/veg/pulses for my week for about €25. I manage to make the things I listed on my previous post with the things I buy for the week. By making a big pot of curry or chilli you can make it last a few days. Recipes you can get for free from the internet.

Vegetarian - the clue is in the name. Veg. How is a fish a vegetable?

Ice.

paky wrote: »

yesterday was like this.

breakfast:
half pound spinach, 2 oranges and 1 banana

lunch
veggie burger, potatoes, veg

snack
6 packs of aldi rice cakes

snack
bag of red skin peanuts

dinner
can a beans, 4 slice a toast and more potatoes

i eat about 3-4000 calories a day but i train around 4-5 days a week (triathlon) so that burns most of it

How do you get the 3000-4000 calorie calculation? Is it a guess? Also, you don't have a lot of variety there. What is your fluid intake like? Hydration is a critical component of a healthy body, often overlooked as is sufficient sleep.

CokaColumbo

It's like an interrogation on here. Paky, all too often it's not practical to be vegan and remain healthy at the same time. Even at the best of times, veganism is often not 100% healthy even when you tediously plan your meals and pop five or six supplement pills a day.

And it's appropriate in my opinion that a question which relates to complications in a vegan diet goes in the vegan and vegetarian forum.

Mark Hamill

paky wrote: »

considering im a student, such things are luxuries, maybe i can email you my bank details so you can donate some money to me?

Going by the amount you eat in general, you could well afford to bring in curries, chillies, soups etc, just make your own. I regularly make myself a curry that works out about €2 a portion (including two shop bought naan bread). Just shop around, you can get cheap spices in asian shops in town (if you live in dublin) and use youtube for recipes.

Mark Hamill

CokaColumbo wrote: »

It's like an interrogation on here.

Why, because he is getting a load of useful advice from many different people? yeah we're like the secret police :rolleyes:

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Paky, all too often it's not practical to be vegan and remain healthy at the same time. Even at the best of times, veganism is often not 100% healthy even when you tediously plan your meals and pop five or six supplement pills a day.

I know plenty of healthy vegans. Its from a lack of "tedious" planning that leads to unhealthy veganism.

Mark Hamill

paky wrote: »

yesterday was like this.

breakfast:
half pound spinach,

Popeye style? :pac:

Kadongy

paky wrote: »

what are chillies anyway?

They are like chillis, but not nearly as hot.

Ice.

CokaColumbo wrote: »

It's like an interrogation on here.

Why? Just because people asked for details? How can you help someone if you don't have accurate info?

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Paky, all too often it's not practical to be vegan and remain healthy at the same time.

Complete nonsense. A well planed vegan diet is healthy.

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Even at the best of times, veganism is often not 100% healthy even when you tediously plan your meals and pop five or six supplement pills a day.

More nonsense. You don't have to "pop five or six supplement pills a day" if you're vegan. A well planed vegan diet has all the vitamins & minerals you need. The only supplement you should take is a B12 supplement and that goes for meat-eaters as much as non-meat-eaters.

CokaColumbo

Ice. wrote: »

Why? Just because people asked for details? How can you help someone if you don't have accurate info?

Stop interrogating me!

Ice. wrote: »

Complete nonsense. A well planed vegan diet is healthy.
More nonsense. You don't have to "pop five or six supplement pills a day" if you're vegan. A well planed vegan diet has all the vitamins & minerals you need. The only supplement you should take is a B12 supplement and that goes for meat-eaters as much as non-meat-eaters.

Saying that a well planned vegan diet is healthy without supplements doesn't really mean anything when in order for it to be in any way healthy you have to constantly eat copious amounts of one thing in order to consume the absolute bare minimum of your required nutrients. Just saying.

Ice.

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Stop interrogating me!



Saying that a well planned vegan diet is healthy without supplements doesn't really mean anything when in order for it to be in any way healthy you have to constantly eat copious amounts of one thing in order to consume the absolute bare minimum of your required nutrients. Just saying.

Such as? Care to expand?

Kadongy

Ice. wrote: »

Such as? Care to expand?

Such as iron.

Outline how you get your rda of non-heme iron.

Most common nutritional deficiency in the world; very common with meat-eaters, never mind vegans.

Ethical and/or environmental considerations are the only sensible arguments for veganism. If you think otherwise, I would think maybe you are deluding yourself. It is not a healthy option, and is very very restrictive. It should be thought of as a sacrifice tbh.

Ice.

Kadongy wrote: »

Such as iron.

Outline how you get your rda of non-heme iron.

Most common nutritional deficiency in the world; very common with meat-eaters, never mind vegans.

Ethical and/or environmental considerations are the only sensible arguments for veganism. If you think otherwise, I would think maybe you are deluding yourself. It is not a healthy option, and is very very restrictive. It should be thought of as a sacrifice tbh.

There are three types of iron. Heme iron from animals and Ferrous & Ferric iron from plants. About two thirds of the iron that the average person consumes comes from plants, but two thirds of the iron that the average person absorbs comes from heme. This means that plant irons are not readily absorbed. Absorption rate is about 5-10%. The reason that heme iron crosses the cell membrane easier is because of the positive electrical charge of the heme molecule. Ferrous and Ferric molecules have a negative charge. In order to solve this you need to consume a reducing agent ( the best one being Vitamin C ) and that changes the molecules charge and the body absorbs all it needs.

Dandelion greens are the highest source of iron of any food. Broccoli and red peppers are really high in Vitamin C. You could blend both into a smoothie and you would absorb all the iron you need. Or just eat them together. This is just one example. Learning about proper food combining is quite useful and doesn't require too much effort.

Once again. A proper vegan diet is not lacking in vitamins or minerals and is not a sacrifice.

Kadongy

Ice. wrote: »

There are three types of iron. Heme iron from animals and Ferrous & Ferric iron from plants. About two thirds of the iron that the average person consumes comes from plants, but two thirds of the iron that the average person absorbs comes from heme. This means that plant irons are not readily absorbed. Absorption rate is about 5-10%. The reason that heme iron crosses the cell membrane easier is because of the positive electrical charge of the heme molecule. Ferrous and Ferric molecules have a negative charge. In order to solve this you need to consume a reducing agent ( the best one being Vitamin C ) and that changes the molecules charge and the body absorbs all it needs.

Dandelion greens are the highest source of iron of any food. Broccoli and red peppers are really high in Vitamin C. You could blend both into a smoothie and you would absorb all the iron you need. Or just eat them together. This is just one example. Learning about proper food combining is quite useful and doesn't require too much effort.

Once again. A proper vegan diet is not lacking in vitamins or minerals and is not a sacrifice.

You would need at least 8 cups of that to get the rda of iron - that is before factoring poor absorption in, and using the [relatively low] generic Irish rda. One important thing you dont mention regarding absorption is that calcium interferes with iron absorption - and the dandelion greens are pretty high in calcium.

Another thing about what you say: I've never heard of anyone eating dandelion greens before. I've certainly never seen them in the supermarket. A dandelion, broccoli and red pepper smoothie sounds disgusting tbh - certainly not something to refute the notion that veganism is a sacrifice!

Here is a one-stop solution for a meat eater concerned about iron intake (and meat eaters are often deficient as I say). 66g is all you need for the rda - heme iron too.

http://annascaulblackpudding.com/ingredients-page.html

The Hill Billy

This thread is not really in the spirit of the V&V forum & is more suitable to Diet & Nutrition.

Moved.

HB

CokaColumbo

Ice. wrote: »

There are three types of iron. Heme iron from animals and Ferrous & Ferric iron from plants. About two thirds of the iron that the average person consumes comes from plants, but two thirds of the iron that the average person absorbs comes from heme. This means that plant irons are not readily absorbed. Absorption rate is about 5-10%. The reason that heme iron crosses the cell membrane easier is because of the positive electrical charge of the heme molecule. Ferrous and Ferric molecules have a negative charge. In order to solve this you need to consume a reducing agent ( the best one being Vitamin C ) and that changes the molecules charge and the body absorbs all it needs.

Dandelion greens are the highest source of iron of any food. Broccoli and red peppers are really high in Vitamin C. You could blend both into a smoothie and you would absorb all the iron you need. Or just eat them together. This is just one example. Learning about proper food combining is quite useful and doesn't require too much effort.

Once again. A proper vegan diet is not lacking in vitamins or minerals and is not a sacrifice.

If dandelion greens are the highest source of iron of any food, how come when I googled "highest sources of iron", nine of the ten results didn't even mention dandelions and other one mentioned it towards the bottom of its list of recommended iron-foods?

And as the poster above me said, dandelion leaves contain quite high levels of calcium relative to iron. Vitamin C is good for iron absorption, absolutely, but calcium greatly inhibits it (and vice versa I think?). So what benefit do dandelion leaves really provide at the end of the day?

After drinking what must be an extremely large (but delicious) daily broccoli, pepper, and dandelion smoothy, what about calcium? Separate calcium rich foods would have to be consumed at a different time in the day in order to avoid clashing with the delicious iron smoothies.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Ice. wrote: »

Why? Just because people asked for details? How can you help someone if you don't have accurate info?



Complete nonsense. A well planed vegan diet is healthy.



More nonsense. You don't have to "pop five or six supplement pills a day" if you're vegan. A well planed vegan diet has all the vitamins & minerals you need. The only supplement you should take is a B12 supplement and that goes for meat-eaters as much as non-meat-eaters.

I'd be inclined to agree that eating meat just makes it much easier to be healthy.

Sure being a vegan you can be healthy if you plan it properly, but most of us aren't that organised/enthusiastic.

Ice.

Kadongy wrote: »

You would need at least 8 cups of that to get the rda of iron - that is before factoring poor absorption in, and using the [relatively low] generic Irish rda. One important thing you dont mention regarding absorption is that calcium interferes with iron absorption - and the dandelion greens are pretty high in calcium.

Poor absorption I already explained. In regards to calcium, it is well known that calcium competes with iron for absorption but it only seems to be of relevance with calcium supplements or dairy so having calcium in your greens doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

Kadongy wrote: »

Another thing about what you say: I've never heard of anyone eating dandelion greens before. I've certainly never seen them in the supermarket. A dandelion, broccoli and red pepper smoothie sounds disgusting tbh - certainly not something to refute the notion that veganism is a sacrifice!

It was only an example. Just because you or people you know wouldn't eat these foods doesn't mean nobody else would. Pretty poor argument TBH.

Kadongy wrote: »

Here is a one-stop solution for a meat eater concerned about iron intake (and meat eaters are often deficient as I say). 66g is all you need for the rda - heme iron too.

http://annascaulblackpudding.com/ingredients-page.html

Ya but it has the added bonus of saturated fat and cholesterol rolled into it as well. Now I know the paleo and low carb folks will shriek that saturated fat is great but I'll pass thanks.

CokaColumbo wrote: »

And as the poster above me said, dandelion leaves contain quite high levels of calcium relative to iron. Vitamin C is good for iron absorption, absolutely, but calcium greatly inhibits it (and vice versa I think?). So what benefit do dandelion leaves really provide at the end of the day?

Once again, it was an example and see above. Another example is to eat spinach as it has both Vitamin C and iron or make a smoothie of some bananas, dates, spinach and water. Plenty of iron and tasty too. Really, a little bit of effort is all it takes.

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Separate calcium rich foods would have to be consumed at a different time in the day in order to avoid clashing with the delicious iron smoothies.

Not quite. See above.

Kadongy

Ice. wrote: »

Poor absorption I already explained. In regards to calcium, it is well known that calcium competes with iron for absorption but it only seems to be of relevance with calcium supplements or dairy so having calcium in your greens doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

source?

It was only an example. Just because you or people you know wouldn't eat these foods doesn't mean nobody else would. Pretty poor argument TBH.

You could say that about anything. There are very few things that "nobody else" would eat (whether they should be considered edible or not!). Most people would not even want to try a dandelion, pepper and broccolli smoothie. Most people would be like me and think it sounds gross.

Ya but it has the added bonus of saturated fat and cholesterol rolled into it as well. Now I know the paleo and low carb folks will shriek that saturated fat is great but I'll pass thanks.

3g of fat in the 66g portion I put forward. Not nearly enough to worry about. About 8mg of cholesterol would be in that amount of black pudding typically - again, not enough to worry about.

Once again, it was an example and see above. Another example is to eat spinach as it has both Vitamin C and iron or make a smoothie of some bananas, dates, spinach and water. Plenty of iron and tasty too. Really, a little bit of effort is all it takes.

You would need to eat about half a kilo of raw spinach to get your rda of iron - again before taking issues with absorption into account. It contains plenty of calcium and zinc which inhibit this [I dont accept what you say about calcium without seeing a good source for the info].

foreverandever

Ice. wrote: »

Once again, it was an example and see above. Another example is to eat spinach as it has both Vitamin C and iron or make a smoothie of some bananas, dates, spinach and water. Plenty of iron and tasty too. Really, a little bit of effort is all it takes.
.

I thought we couldn't really absorb the iron from spinach?? That's why Rice Krispies used say as much iron as a portion of spinach because what we actually absorb from iron is minimum...maybe I'm wrong!!

Paky, try using a food diary like fitness pal/sparkpeople for a few days.
To see for yourself how far your falling short of your requirements, and hopefully tweek out a better balanced diet with whatever changes you implement.

If you are feeling fatigued, it would be worth getting your blood tested too.

Red Cortina

paky wrote: »

hi

ive been vegan for well over a year now. im finding it kinda boaring and i feel like a change. i was thinking of incorporating fish or eggs.
can any of you offer me some advice as im feeling lost

paky

Hi Paky,
Don't know if you have seen this article before about one person's health struggles with veganism. I think that it makes for interesting reading...
http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more/

Mark Hamill

Red Cortina wrote: »

Hi Paky,
Don't know if you have seen this article before about one person's health struggles with veganism. I think that it makes for interesting reading...
http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more/

Why? One person has issues with a particular diet because of personal biological problems, therefore everyone will? This persons experiences are countered by the experience of all the vegans even just here on boards who dont have health issues despite being vegan. If the plural of anecdote is not evidence, then the singular isn't either.

CokaColumbo

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Why? One person has issues with a particular diet because of personal biological problems, therefore everyone will? This persons experiences are countered by the experience of all the vegans even just here on boards who dont have health issues despite being vegan. If the plural of anecdote is not evidence, then the singular isn't either.

I of course cannot rely on any fellow vegans to substantiate this, but I have a feeling that many vegans feel a sort of personal obligation to put extra emphasis on the ease and healthfulness of the vegan diet, often to the point of exaggeration.

Many people say that veganism is very easy when it is not and say that it is entirely healthy which is, to be honest, debatable. For example, I have noticed that my brain is not as sharp as it used to be when I was a vegetarian (e.g. when attempting to recall trivial things like the names of famous celebrities). This is when I pay tedious attention to diet and supplementing. There are other things like becoming drained of energy more quickly and feeling simply less envigorated and strong than I used to be.

Now, this is my personal experience. I can't say that the same applies to everybody and I don't expect other vegans who feel the same way to say so.

WildBoots

paky wrote: »

hi

ive been vegan for well over a year now. im finding it kinda boaring and i feel like a change. i was thinking of incorporating fish or eggs.
can any of you offer me some advice as im feeling lost

paky

What blood type are you paky?

rocky

WildBoots wrote: »

What blood type are you paky?

The blood type that has no bearing on diet, I'd say.

Mark Hamill

CokaColumbo wrote: »

I of course cannot rely on any fellow vegans to substantiate this, but I have a feeling that many vegans feel a sort of personal obligation to put extra emphasis on the ease and healthfulness of the vegan diet, often to the point of exaggeration.

Exaggerations aside (certainly possible as they are, though) could it not be that the reason other vegans do this is because they believe it? Is it just that impossible that, for many people, the vegan diet isn't actually a hassle (in terms of variety and getting the necessary nutrients) and that, for them, there are no health issues.

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Many people say that veganism is very easy when it is not and say that it is entirely healthy which is, to be honest, debatable. For example, I have noticed that my brain is not as sharp as it used to be when I was a vegetarian (e.g. when attempting to recall trivial things like the names of famous celebrities). This is when I pay tedious attention to diet and supplementing. There are other things like becoming drained of energy more quickly and feeling simply less envigorated and strong than I used to be.

This is subjective to you, though, I dont have the same outcomes as you and I'm vegetarian.

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Now, this is my personal experience. I can't say that the same applies to everybody and I don't expect other vegans who feel the same way to say so.

Yeah, this comes across as a bit disingenous. "What I'm saying is the truth, but not necessarily for everyone, and those that it is true for, wont support me". How can you tell the difference between your situation being generally applicable but no-one wanting to agree, and simply your situation not being generally applicable.