The sad thing about the election . .

Drumpot

1. People will lose their jobs. I know my sister will lose hers as a member of the FF press team. While I am glad that the people of Ireland (Dubs in particular) have given FF a lesson in accountability, its no harm sharing a thought for the people who have worked hard and will now lose their jobs simply because those in power let them down aswell.

2. Watching some of the FF candidates on TV (just watched Carey there) show the kind of humility that was seriously lacking the last 10 or so years is really sad. Not because I feel sorry for them, but its sad that its taken Annihilationfor them to figure out how to show the people that they are actually capable of being humble.

3. While people will be delighted that FF have been nearly destroyed, it is sad that some of their better back benchers (Thomas Byrne comes to mind) will not get re-elected for the damage their front bench did. I want good politicians in politics, not parties bound by outdated principles.

4. Its also sad that people still vote in the Independants who jumped the FF ship and somehow managed to get some sort of protection from the damage they did in power (and not treated the same way as FF backbenchers).

5. That around 30% of the population didnt bother to vote. Nobody knows what they think and they contributed little to helping us decide our next government. Shame on you . .

Rabble Rabble

30% non-attendance is quite good.

Anyway, good piece. I agree.

Grudaire

*hands Drumpot some tissues*

It'll be ok....

*slaps Drumpot encouragingly on the back*

Drumpot

Cliste wrote: »

*hands Drumpot some tissues*

It'll be ok....

*slaps Drumpot encouragingly on the back*

Thanks, I needed that . .

Its funny cause I actually feel quite emotionally drained as I invested alot of time in the Election personally (not running or canvassing).

It was actually only when I phoned my sister earlier to say I was glad the people had brought FF to account that I realised that she will lose her job (I was sure she was going to get a job irrespective!) . . There are hundreds of people in a similar boat . . Change is good, collatoral damage is sad . .

Liam Byrne

Carey?? Humility??

He threw in a snide dig about how anyone who lied in the last 3 weeks would be exposed before then acknowledging that that "didn't really happen" - if it didn't, why say it? And what about all FF's lies last time around?

As for the jobs - if a government actually requires them then the new government will be hiring.

later12

No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, OP

All of Fianna Fail, and anybody associated with Fianna Fail are the cause of all the country's problems and all of the problems of all of the people in that country. Everbody in the party is corrupt. Didn't you get the memo?

The country will be a thriving success on Monday morning............ cupcakes for EVerYoNe!!!!111!

murphaph

Drumpot wrote: »

5. That around 30% of the population didnt bother to vote. Nobody knows what they think and they contributed little to helping us decide our next government. Shame on you . .

Shame on Ireland. I'm one of those 30% who is still on the electoral register (Dublin West in my case) but who is denied the vote having left Ireland in 2009 to work abroad. I want to vote. I still pay some taxes in Ireland so I should have the vote, but I don't because if there's one thing the political class in Ireland fear above all else, it's the votes of those forced to emigrate.

A person who loses their job and then just goes on the dole and stays on it gets a vote. Why can't someone whose lost their job and gone abroad so as not to be a burden on the state have one?!

bleg

The saddest thing is that nothing will change and we will continue to be governed by teachers and republicans, largely people that will be incompetent.

Lawrence1895

Don't know, if I have to be sad or not, the full impact of these elections won't come out for a few weeks anyway, but hopefully, Labour will make it into government somehow and Sinn Fein will get a decent result.

later12

murphaph wrote: »

Shame on Ireland. I'm one of those 30% who is still on the electoral register (Dublin West in my case) but who is denied the vote having left Ireland in 2009 to work abroad. I want to vote. I still pay some taxes in Ireland so I should have the vote, but I don't because if there's one thing the political class in Ireland fear above all else, it's the votes of those forced to emigrate.

A person who loses their job and then just goes on the dole and stays on it gets a vote. Why can't someone whose lost their job and gone abroad so as not to be a burden on the state have one?!

Two reasons are usually put forward: taxation and policy repercussion.

I think the policy issue is more important. If you elect a government, particularly one about to implement serious austerity measures, you don't have to live under those policies. You can wait abroad in some more developed jurisdiction, and await the change that others live under.

I don't normally reside in Ireland myself and I didn't actually vote in this election. I won't be here to live under the ongoing austerity programmes and the tax burden in six, twelve or fourteen months, maybe I will never live here permanently again. As such, I don't think I ought to get a say in how others run the state in which they reside, and what regulatory and legislative changes they may be subjected to.

Drumpot

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Carey?? Humility??

He threw in a snide dig about how anyone who lied in the last 3 weeks would be exposed before then acknowledging that that "didn't really happen" - if it didn't, why say it? And what about all FF's lies last time around?

As for the jobs - if a government actually requires them then the new government will be hiring.

Ah, the opposition apologist . . It doesnt actually matter what the opposition do in your eyes, you will just find something FF did and compare it as if it absolves them of blame . . For all the insults you gave to FF supporters for blindly following the party, you were advocating everybody to follow anybody but FF, which is an extension of the same ignorant principle that you protested against.

Carey was telling the truth (for once some might say). There were lies by the opposition parties, just because it was coming from a hypocrite doesnt make him wrong . . Some of the Sh*t spun by Lab and FG is ridiculous. Your insistance on justifying everything the opposition parties have done up to now by benchmarking it against the mistakes/damage of FF has been remarkably ignorant at best.

I dont support any party as they are all in need of radical reform. You are happy that that reform will simply involve them not being FF, well good luck with that . . A step up from what you consider to be the worlds worst party, in the history of life itself. Yes, you hate Crap, but you are satisfied with a step above crap. Congradulations, lower the bar enough and you will be easily pleased . . What is consistant is that oppositioon parties will do and say anything to get into power and once they get into power, they forget half their promises and get the same arrogance that your much hated FF have shown. I will be interested to see what kind of political reform we get from your beloved anybody but FF . . Odds are, very little, but sure thats enough for you .

Grudaire

murphaph wrote: »

A person who loses their job and then just goes on the dole and stays on it gets a vote. Why can't someone whose lost their job and gone abroad so as not to be a burden on the state have one?!

I think it would be foolish to give people who do not reside in Ireland the vote. On paper it's a nice lofty ideal, but in practice it is unfair on residents in Ireland who would be subject to the whims of people who do not have to live with the repercussions.

On a practical level how would we deal with members of the six county having the vote? They are entitled to citizenship...

gandalf

As someone already indicated how many of that 30% have emigrated so couldn't vote.

FF and all those involved with them have gotten what they deserved. I feel no sorrow for them at all.

Laminations

Drumpot wrote: »

1. People will lose their jobs. I know my sister will lose hers as a member of the FF press team. While I am glad that the people of Ireland (Dubs in particular) have given FF a lesson in accountability, its no harm sharing a thought for the people who have worked hard and will now lose their jobs simply because those in power let them down aswell.

I'll have to reinterpret all your previous 'pleas' using this new source for possible bias.

I have no tears for people who'll lose their jobs trying to foist the policies of FF on this country. It you stuck it out with FF it tells me your standards. Plus its the nature of politics related jobs, they cant last forever. I'd be more concerned about the hundreds of thousands who lost their jobs as a result of FF policies.

Drumpot

murphaph wrote: »

Shame on Ireland. I'm one of those 30% who is still on the electoral register (Dublin West in my case) but who is denied the vote having left Ireland in 2009 to work abroad. I want to vote. I still pay some taxes in Ireland so I should have the vote, but I don't because if there's one thing the political class in Ireland fear above all else, it's the votes of those forced to emigrate.

A person who loses their job and then just goes on the dole and stays on it gets a vote. Why can't someone whose lost their job and gone abroad so as not to be a burden on the state have one?!

My mum didnt vote as she has been in hospital for the last two weeks after 2 operations!

Of course certain people have good reason not to vote (living abroad and not feeling like you should have a say on the oncoming economic austerity measures is a very good reason), but most people do not . . "I dont know who to vote for ", well vote and spoil your vote. If everybody who didnt know who to vote for at least voted and spoiled it , parties would want to get these votes and find out what they can do to convince these voters to vote for them.

What is absolute is that if you dont vote, you dont have a say in who leads the country . .

didntgotoplan

Drumpot wrote: »

That around 30% of the population didnt bother to vote. Nobody knows what they think and they contributed little to helping us decide our next government. Shame on you . .

This is the first time I was not able to go and vote since I became 18. I would of if I was able to. There is no jobs in the area I live in so I commute 2 hours to and from work by public transport. I worked a 10 hour shift yesterday and the crap public transport meant I was not able to reach my local polling station, without leaving work early (which I asked about and was told no) or being late.

takun

Drumpot wrote: »

Watching some of the FF candidates on TV (just watched Carey there) show the kind of humility that was seriously lacking the last 10 or so years is really sad..

Were we watching the same interview? I didn't see humility.

Drumpot wrote: »

That around 30% of the population didnt bother to vote.

Way less than that. Aside from people who have had to leave but are still on register, the register is flawed. I had 2 polling cards as did my partner. So of four apparent votes between us there was only a 50% turnout. Many people are on the register twice (or more) because it so poorly maintained in places.

The factor in people who are sick, on holiday, abroad for some other reason, or for whatever other reasons cannot vote. It will be well below 30% who just 'didn't bother'.

celty

If a person ran a business and ran it into the ground, running up massive debts, they would lose their job.

It's the same with FF who deserve all they get after the way they ran this country and the arrogance they showed (remember Bertie with his atrocious 'suicide' comment).

I am delighted to see this rotten bunch of cronies lose power, including the man here in Galway West who owns 29 properties, sold out our vast natural energy resources, keeps claiming the credit for things which had nothing to do with him, etc.

It's the arrogance of these buggers that sickens me and it is high time, if not too late, for them to get their come-uppance.

I know two people who emigrated thanks to FF this week. As for your sister, OP, that is sad, but it is also sad to be dishing out propaganda on behalf of this rotten organisation which has been in power, and abused that power, for far too long.

Good riddance.

Drumpot

Laminations wrote: »

I'll have to reinterpret all your previous 'pleas' using this new source for possible bias.

I have no tears for people who'll lose their jobs trying to foist the policies of FF on this country. It you stuck it out with FF it tells me your standards. Plus its the nature of politics related jobs, they cant last forever. I'd be more concerned about the hundreds of thousands who lost their jobs as a result of FF policies.

Yes, people who took jobs with FF should be lashed aswell . . Ah Empathy, a long lost quality in so many people . .

People who are absolute in their beliefs are often just ignorant/uneducated to the variables surrounding a topic and the damage they can do is far worse then those willing to debate . . People like this are doing the same kind of damage that they say FF did during the boom. FF were abosolute in their belief that the bubble should rise. They were absolute (and ignorant) in their belief that nobody else was right and they were absolute that there was nothing to debate in terms of what they thought was fact. . Sound familiar ?

Yes, I am absolutely sure that the same ignorance shown by FF during the Bertie years is being show by people on boards who are incapable of debating with anybody who thinks something to the contrary to their beliefs.

Liam Byrne

@Drumpot : you make it sound like ABFF is an unjustified, uninformed default position.

As everyone knows, it's not.

It's simply an objection to corruption and incompetence on a scale never before seen in this country.

And since that's what FF's whip represents, there's no point in even voting for a good FF candidate, if such a thing exists (which I presume they do, but I just don't know any, only being familiar with the local ones and the ministers)

So my stance is purely logical.

Peter Power was on a few moments ago deluded enough to explain the result as "people wanted change after 14 years", as if FF hadn't screwed up colossally; THAT is the problem that FF needs to sort out - they cannot see the truth, and like an alcoholic, the first step is to admit the facts.

Drumpot

Liam Byrne wrote: »

@Drumpot : you make it sound like ABFF is an unjustified, uninformed default position.

As everyone knows, it's not.

It's simply an objection to corruption and incompetence on a scale never before seen in this country.

And since that's what FF's whip represents, there's no point in even voting for a good FF candidate, if such a thing exists (which I presume they do, but I just don't know any, only being familiar with the local ones and the ministers)

So my stance is purely logical.

Peter Power was on a few moments ago deluded enough to explain the result as "people wanted change after 14 years", as if FF hadn't screwed up colossally; THAT is the problem that FF needs to sort out - they cannot see the truth, and like an alcoholic, the first step is to admit the facts.

Everybody knows its a justifiable, logical stance ? You can speak for yourself thank you very much. I know many people who are rightly angry with FF. Hell, I am disgusted and dissalusioned with the decisions they have taken, but that doesnt mean I cant look at all the variables involved and at least try to be objective (then simply dismissive and judgemental).

If a quarter of the police are on the take, does it mean the whole police force is corrupt ? No, it means there is a significant amount of corruption in police. If you really think every FF member and politician represented corruption you are very ill informed. Of course you would hope that the good cops would root out and discourage the bad cops, but I wouldnt say they should all be sacked because they didnt do enough to clamp down on it !

Your attitude is similar to that of "you are either with or against me" in that you cannot properly debate the flaws in your logic. You think that either you are with FF or against them. I dont support any party. I voted independant but will honestly say I would of voted for Thomas Byrne had he been in my area. I know him well (only from when I was one of his constituants, nothing else) and found him more honest and approachable then the other politicians in other parties. When I was speaking to him once and mentioned a social welfare query, he gave me some advice but said he did not want to get involved (which I applaud), but the others were making ridiculous statements/promises and unable to discuss their parties policies in more debth.

Other partys do have the same kind of politicians you protest that you hate. I saw some of them in my constituancy, but I didnt think I wouldnt vote for their party because they only represent a portion of their party. I also didnt tell all my friends "dont vote for labour cause my candidate is a chancer" . .

FF have been in power too long and the people at the top of the FF ladder were the ones who did 99% of the damage and cronyist action (because they were in a position to do so). . You can bet that backbenchers were the ones on the ground trying to implement change. While you would say that they should of just quit FF, that is too easy a position to take. If you support a party (I dont understand it personally), I imagine that its like supporting a team. If your team do well, you dont abandon them, you try to fix them, make them better.

While I feel many party members have been harshly treated (I know in Meath East, the bigwigs in FF tried to force candidates on their members who nearly revolted), they need to start standing up to their leaders. What has happened is that politicians in all parties have grown accustomed to telling their members how things will role when it should be the other way around. If there is one criticism I would certainly give to FF supporters , its that you never held your own people accountable for letting the people of Ireland down. .

As for my sister, she did a job, shame on anybody for accusing her of propaganda. There are similar people in Lab/Fg doing the exact same job and nobody is stupid enough to think that they do any differant a job at messaging the truths of these parties. People need to stop thinking that wrong practises in FG/Lab are ok because they are not FF, its just ridiculous for me to even have to say this. .

I will support a party that puts the country ahead of its own personal gain . . It might be a time before I will be voting for a party (as opposed to candidate). .

Drumpot

celty wrote: »

If a person ran a business and ran it into the ground, running up massive debts, they would lose their job.

It's the same with FF who deserve all they get after the way they ran this country and the arrogance they showed (remember Bertie with his atrocious 'suicide' comment).

I am delighted to see this rotten bunch of cronies lose power, including the man here in Galway West who owns 29 properties, sold out our vast natural energy resources, keeps claiming the credit for things which had nothing to do with him, etc.

It's the arrogance of these buggers that sickens me and it is high time, if not too late, for them to get their come-uppance.

I know two people who emigrated thanks to FF this week. As for your sister, OP, that is sad, but it is also sad to be dishing out propaganda on behalf of this rotten organisation which has been in power, and abused that power, for far too long.

Good riddance.

Being angry with FF is ok . . Wanting them out of power is ok . . Encouraging people not to vote for them is ok.

Thinking that anybody that doesnt completely agree with you is wrong, is similar to when bertie made that "suicide" comment. Dont be a hypocrite. I dont agree that everybody in FF is to blame, nor do I believe voting for any other candidate but an FF candidate represents progression, that in itself is a strategy of blind loyalty. If the candidate is superior, that is fine, but a candidate is not better by default of non FF affiliation.

People having to emmigrate, losing their jobs or struggling does not justify the statement that FF is entirely corrupt. What is sad (in the context on this thread) is that it seems some people have learned nothing. They have taken the exact same narrow minded attitude as the very Taoiseach they quote and they cant even see it . .

celty

Drumpot wrote: »

Dont be a hypocrite. I dont agree that everybody in FF is to blame, nor do I believe voting for any other candidate but an FF candidate represents progression, that in itself is a strategy of blind loyalty. If the candidate is superior, that is fine, but a candidate is not better by default of non FF affiliation.

People having to emmigrate, losing their jobs or struggling does not justify the statement that FF is entirely corrupt. What is sad (in the context on this thread) is that it seems some people have learned nothing. They have taken the exact same narrow minded attitude as the very Taoiseach they quote and they cant even see it . .

Three years ago, Bertie tried to make those of us who weren't obsessed by the property bubble feel that we should top ourselves or we didn't belong. That we were cribbers and moaners, when we knew his elite clique were pushing this country to the brink. Yes, I am angry, how does that make me a hypocrite?

I am happy to see this corrupt, rotten bunch get what they deserve. I don't feel sorry for FFers who have lost their jobs. I do feel sorry for the two people I know who felt they were forced to leave Ireland in search of better lives this week.

It's a good thing that people have woken up to this awful party which run this country into the ground and forced us to go begging to the IMF / ECB for funds to stay afloat. FF made me ashamed to be Irish, which is why I'm glad to see them lose today.

So, no, I don't care about FF propaganda officers or constituency TD staff, the ones who trawl the death notices for funerals to attend (for votes) when the TDs should be getting the country out of its mess, are losing their jobs. Boo, hoo. If you write FF press releases for a living then you deserve to be feeling blue today. God knows, the whole country has been feeling blue for three or four years, and we haven't seen the worst yet.

Drumpot

celty wrote: »

Three years ago, Bertie tried to make those of us who weren't obsessed by the property bubble feel that we should top ourselves or we didn't belong. That we were cribbers and moaners, when we knew his elite clique were pushing this country to the brink. Yes, I am angry, how does that make me a hypocrite?

I am happy to see this corrupt, rotten bunch get what they deserve. I don't feel sorry for FFers who have lost their jobs. I do feel sorry for the two people I know who felt they were forced to leave Ireland in search of better lives this week.

It's a good thing that people have woken up to this awful party which run this country into the ground and forced us to go begging to the IMF / ECB for funds to stay afloat. FF made me ashamed to be Irish, which is why I'm glad to see them lose today.

So, no, I don't care about FF propaganda officers or constituency TD staff, the ones who trawl the death notices for funerals to attend (for votes) when the TDs should be getting the country out of its mess, are losing their jobs. Boo, hoo. If you write FF press releases for a living then you deserve to be feeling blue today. God knows, the whole country has been feeling blue for three or four years, and we haven't seen the worst yet.

You are a hypocrite. Bertie was absolute when he told everybody who disagreed with him to commit suicide. You are absolute when you are saying anybody who was involved in FF deserves to lose their job . .

As far as mentioning my sister, I forgot the ignorance and PC warrior mentality that exists on Boards.ie. I cant think of many circumstances where i would rejoice in a person losing a job, but I would never be ignorant enough to tarnish everybody with the same brush . .

Your ignorance is only matched by your lack of empathy, try and show a little self respect.

layviae

im one of those 30% who didnt vote but also one of the 70% who did as i received two polling cards and cannot legally vote twice so once but my other/card would be considered a non attendence

Drumpot

layviae wrote: »

im one of those 30% who didnt vote but also one of the 70% who did as i received two polling cards and cannot legally vote twice so once but my other/card would be considered a non attendence

fair play for not voting twice . . Some would . .

murphaph

Cliste wrote: »

I think it would be foolish to give people who do not reside in Ireland the vote. On paper it's a nice lofty ideal, but in practice it is unfair on residents in Ireland who would be subject to the whims of people who do not have to live with the repercussions.

On a practical level how would we deal with members of the six county having the vote? They are entitled to citizenship...

I am not in favour of all and sundry getting a vote based on their Irish citizenship.

I am in favour of people (yes, like myself) who have been on the electoral register (and in my case voted in every election and referendum until leaving Ireland) of continuing to have an input into the running of their country.

We could tie it to having a PPS number and having at least paid tax in the RoI at some point. This would prevent the Irish citizens who have never lived in the RoI from voting.

Look, it's just how I feel. Am I more useful to Ireland on the dole or learning new skills (I work as a programmer in Germany having previously worked in electronics hardware) or sitting at home on the dole moping? (I understand that not everyone can leave as easily as me and I'm not having a dig at the unemployed).

Ireland would have sunk into the Atlantic in the 50's and 80's if it wasn't for all the dosh sent back to the septic Isle from emigrants working abroad. These people were largely forgotten by the state. I propose that if the emigrants of the 80s etc. had been able to vote, they'd have seen the trainwreck headed down the tracks a lot more clearly than those of us in Ireland who apparently did not and returned FF to power again and again with their fundamentally flawed policy of a property dependent boom.

I would tie emigrants to voting in their last previous constituency on a practical level.

Capt'n Midnight

Don't feel sorry for the FF teachers who will get lump sums and pensions and their old job back. The people currently in those jobs are only temps (even after decades) and they will loose their jobs

bmarley

Drumpot wrote: »

1. People will lose their jobs. I know my sister will lose hers as a member of the FF press team. While I am glad that the people of Ireland (Dubs in particular) have given FF a lesson in accountability, its no harm sharing a thought for the people who have worked hard and will now lose their jobs simply because those in power let them down aswell.

2. Watching some of the FF candidates on TV (just watched Carey there) show the kind of humility that was seriously lacking the last 10 or so years is really sad. Not because I feel sorry for them, but its sad that its taken Annihilationfor them to figure out how to show the people that they are actually capable of being humble.

3. While people will be delighted that FF have been nearly destroyed, it is sad that some of their better back benchers (Thomas Byrne comes to mind) will not get re-elected for the damage their front bench did. I want good politicians in politics, not parties bound by outdated principles.

4. Its also sad that people still vote in the Independants who jumped the FF ship and somehow managed to get some sort of protection from the damage they did in power (and not treated the same way as FF backbenchers).

5. That around 30% of the population didnt bother to vote. Nobody knows what they think and they contributed little to helping us decide our next government. Shame on you . .

1. That's true, people will lose jobs but so have many other people who have no links with F.F. Maybe she too will be entitled to a fat pension. I suppose the new government will need similar type personnel and she may be able to apply for a position there.

2. Don't feel a bit sorry for any of them, let them feel sorry for themselves.

3. Well maybe whole system should be changed to allow all to express their opinions, no point in being there if they cannot or are not allowed to be involved in decision making etc.

4. There was a good turn out for voting. It is a huge pity that everyone did not use their vote but that is their choice. Who knows what difference those votes would have made? What about the students from trinity college, did they get the chance to vote (heard there were problems there).

the bolt

bleg wrote: »

The saddest thing is that nothing will change and we will continue to be governed by teachers and republicans, largely people that will be incompetent.

dont know about republicans but i know what you mean

Drumpot

the bolt wrote: »

dont know about republicans but i know what you mean

Shhhh .. Your not suggesting the world is perfect now that FF are gone are you ? :eek:

Seth Brundle

Drumpot wrote: »

1. People will lose their jobs. I know my sister will lose hers as a member of the FF press team. While I am glad that the people of Ireland (Dubs in particular) have given FF a lesson in accountability, its no harm sharing a thought for the people who have worked hard and will now lose their jobs simply because those in power let them down aswell.

Under FF "governance" we have now got a huge number of unemployed and the reliance on at least 1,000 to emigrate each week so that their financial forecasts work out.
In the last two years we have seen very little productive efforts from FF in terms of job creation. Christ, Mary Coughlan was assigned this role only to have the likes of Michael Dell refuse to even see her.
And I should feel sorry for some FF spin doctors?

Drumpot wrote: »

2. Watching some of the FF candidates on TV (just watched Carey there) show the kind of humility that was seriously lacking the last 10 or so years is really sad. Not because I feel sorry for them, but its sad that its taken Annihilationfor them to figure out how to show the people that they are actually capable of being humble.

I saw no humility and don't recall seeing any humility from a FF member in a long liong time.
Anyhow, how much will they get?

Drumpot wrote: »

3. While people will be delighted that FF have been nearly destroyed, it is sad that some of their better back benchers (Thomas Byrne comes to mind) will not get re-elected for the damage their front bench did. I want good politicians in politics, not parties bound by outdated principles.

If you sleep with dogs then you catch fleas. If they were honourable politicians with integrity then they wouldn't have stood by and endorsed the mess their party have created for us all.

Drumpot wrote: »

4. Its also sad that people still vote in the Independants who jumped the FF ship and somehow managed to get some sort of protection from the damage they did in power (and not treated the same way as FF backbenchers).

I agree. A leopard doesn't change their spots that easily.

Drumpot wrote: »

5. That around 30% of the population didnt bother to vote. Nobody knows what they think and they contributed little to helping us decide our next government. Shame on you . .

Don't assume that it is down to apathy.
How much of the 30% is down to emigration?
How much is down to the fact that we still don't have a system that uses PPS numbers? Lots of people still are getting more than one ballot paper. There was a report during the week of a baby receiving their card.

bleg wrote: »

The saddest thing is that nothing will change and we will continue to be governed by teachers and republicans, largely people that will be incompetent.

True but what we have now is a start. People are not going to endorse the corruption, cronyism, lies and economic recklessness that we have seen from FF.

Drumpot wrote: »

Hell, I am disgusted and dissalusioned with the decisions they have taken, but that doesnt mean I cant look at all the variables involved and at least try to be objective (then simply dismissive and judgemental).

What have you done to have the workings of FF changed then?

Drumpot wrote: »

If a quarter of the police are on the take, does it mean the whole police force is corrupt ? No, it means there is a significant amount of corruption in police. If you really think every FF member and politician represented corruption you are very ill informed. Of course you would hope that the good cops would root out and discourage the bad cops, but I wouldnt say they should all be sacked because they didnt do enough to clamp down on it !

Firstly, a quarter of gardai are on the take? Have you any form of source for this?
Secondly, how many members of FF stood up and said that enough is enough with regard to the corruption?

Drumpot wrote: »

I will support a party that puts the country ahead of its own personal gain . . It might be a time before I will be voting for a party (as opposed to candidate). .

Well its been said on air by a number of FF TDs in the past that they and FF come before the country. Its probably the same for FG and Lab but they have the tact not to tell everyone.

Drumpot

kbannon wrote: »

Under FF "governance" we have now got a huge number of unemployed and the reliance on at least 1,000 to emigrate each week so that their financial forecasts work out.
In the last two years we have seen very little productive efforts from FF in terms of job creation. Christ, Mary Coughlan was assigned this role only to have the likes of Michael Dell refuse to even see her.
And I should feel sorry for some FF spin doctors?

I saw no humility and don't recall seeing any humility from a FF member in a long liong time.
Anyhow, how much will they get?

If you sleep with dogs then you catch fleas. If they were honourable politicians with integrity then they wouldn't have stood by and endorsed the mess their party have created for us all.

I agree. A leopard doesn't change their spots that easily.

Don't assume that it is down to apathy.
How much of the 30% is down to emigration?
How much is down to the fact that we still don't have a system that uses PPS numbers? Lots of people still are getting more than one ballot paper. There was a report during the week of a baby receiving their card.
True but what we have now is a start. People are not going to endorse the corruption, cronyism, lies and economic recklessness that we have seen from FF.
What have you done to have the workings of FF changed then?
Firstly, a quarter of gardai are on the take? Have you any form of source for this?
Secondly, how many members of FF stood up and said that enough is enough with regard to the corruption?
Well its been said on air by a number of FF TDs in the past that they and FF come before the country. Its probably the same for FG and Lab but they have the tact not to tell everyone.

You have to understand humility to recognise it. Congradulating the victors is humble.

I didnt ask you to feel sorry for anybody. Empathy is something people just have, you dont have to ask for it. You can tell the kind of person somebody is when they think they need to be asked to feel sorry for somebody . .

Since you struggle to understand the principle of my policy, I am saying everybody who can vote, should vote. If you live abroad and feel you have nothing to contribute , you should cancel your registry. If you have a good reason for not being able to vote, then fair enough, but most people just dont bother.

I never said a quarter of police were corrupt. Once again I have to ask you to understand a post before replying will ill informed waffle.

In terms of who in FF stood up to the corruption, you are correct but this is a problem with the political culture within politics. How long did Labour wait to call no confidence in JOD ? And at that they didnt even want to.

Its remarkable how people think that all FFrs are hateful people when nearly all TDs from all parties get on . . Why ? Because they work in the same environment and know the hypocracy of ill informed attitudes/opinions like yours. Obviously voting in an alternative to FF simply because you hate them is kind of pointless if the very people you vote in, will engage and actually get on with the same people you dispise . .

If you are looking for everybody to be accountable , you need look no further then the many Labour and FG councellors that rezoned land for development that had as much to do with the bubble (Im sure some got a few quid in their back pockets) as anything else. Dont let the door hit you on the way out of your glasshouse . .

dan_d

It is sad that people will lose their job as a result, but to be fair, under Enda Kenny, a lot of public servants may lose their jobs too (and I am not entering into the bloated PS debate). I feel sorry for your sister, but it's not her fault, it's the fault of those she worked for. I hope she finds something soon (being in a similar position - unemployed due to FF incompetence - I do honestly understand how it feels)

The only other comment I have on your OP, which is quite true, is that 30% who didn't vote - nowhere near as simple as people not just turning out.I can only imagine how many of the 30% are emigrants.And there are a small minority that intended to vote, but circumstance - work/sickness, whatever prevented them.To say nothing of the fact that this is the mid-term and I'd imagine there are quite a number of people on holidays.And then there is the small minority who just didn't bother.

The turn out for this election was actually very good.It's heartening to see.

the bolt

Drumpot wrote: »

Shhhh .. Your not suggesting the world is perfect now that FF are gone are you ? :eek:

no im not ,things are far from perfect but i hope that the are a little bit better that they were this time last week,

celty

Drumpot,

We don't need a lecture from a FF supporter about 'empathy' after the greedy way in which they have run the country over the past 14 years. I didn't see much 'empathy' from FF for the people lying on trollies in the hospitals last week or the 50,000 who emigrated last year.

As for a 'spindoctor' losing her job, I have a lot more to worry about. I don't feel much 'empathy', either, with fat cat bankers, developers, and FF TDs who ruined this country ... just as they didn't have much 'empathy' for the ordinary people of Ireland when they were flying their helicopters to that tent at the Galway Races.

Sir Oxman

murphaph wrote: »

I am not in favour of all and sundry getting a vote based on their Irish citizenship.

I am in favour of people (yes, like myself) who have been on the electoral register (and in my case voted in every election and referendum until leaving Ireland) of continuing to have an input into the running of their country.

We could tie it to having a PPS number and having at least paid tax in the RoI at some point. This would prevent the Irish citizens who have never lived in the RoI from voting.

Look, it's just how I feel. Am I more useful to Ireland on the dole or learning new skills (I work as a programmer in Germany having previously worked in electronics hardware) or sitting at home on the dole moping? (I understand that not everyone can leave as easily as me and I'm not having a dig at the unemployed).

Ireland would have sunk into the Atlantic in the 50's and 80's if it wasn't for all the dosh sent back to the septic Isle from emigrants working abroad. These people were largely forgotten by the state. I propose that if the emigrants of the 80s etc. had been able to vote, they'd have seen the trainwreck headed down the tracks a lot more clearly than those of us in Ireland who apparently did not and returned FF to power again and again with their fundamentally flawed policy of a property dependent boom.

I would tie emigrants to voting in their last previous constituency on a practical level.

I would agree with a five year limit on extending the vote to emigrants.
A Primetime program recently had people 35 years and 16 years in the UK moaning they wanted a vote - eh, no.

5 years or so sounds acceptable to me

ninjasurfer1

celty wrote: »

I don't feel much 'empathy', either, with fat cat bankers, developers, and FF TDs who ruined this country ... just as they didn't have much 'empathy' for the ordinary people of Ireland when they were flying their helicopters to that tent at the Galway Races.

According to the news, Enda flew by helicopter to Dublin this evening for a celebratory get together of FG helpers (as well as apppear on the news).
Looks like he's getting used to the high life now its his turn!!! :pac:

Liam Byrne

Drumpot wrote: »

If a quarter of the police are on the take, does it mean the whole police force is corrupt ? No, it means there is a significant amount of corruption in police. If you really think every FF member and politician represented corruption you are very ill informed. Of course you would hope that the good cops would root out and discourage the bad cops, but I wouldnt say they should all be sacked because they didnt do enough to clamp down on it !

Your analogy has one serious flaw. It doesn't equate to a scenario in which those who supposedly object to corruption get a chance to vote against that corruption.

Drumpot wrote: »

Your attitude is similar to that of "you are either with or against me" in that you cannot properly debate the flaws in your logic. You think that either you are with FF or against them.

Complete tosh. I don't give a crap WHO we're talking about. You are either with corruption and incompetence or against it.

It appears to be FF who jump on the defensive and assume that anyone who recognises and points out their flaws is "agin dem".

If FG prove to be as incompetent and corrupt, then I will be 100% consistent.

So there's no flaw or bias in my logic.

Drumpot wrote: »

Other partys do have the same kind of politicians you protest that you hate. I saw some of them in my constituancy, but I didnt think I wouldnt vote for their party because they only represent a portion of their party.

"A portion", eh ? In the next sentence you admit that corruption rose to the top of FF practically unchallenged.

Drumpot wrote: »

FF have been in power too long and the people at the top of the FF ladder were the ones who did 99% of the damage and cronyist action (because they were in a position to do so)

Agreed. Which makes me wonder how people of that mindset get to the top unchallenged, and which reflects on the party as a whole.

Drumpot wrote: »

You can bet that backbenchers were the ones on the ground trying to implement change. While you would say that they should of just quit FF, that is too easy a position to take. If you support a party (I dont understand it personally), I imagine that its like supporting a team.

It should be nothing like "supporting a team". You join a group or party because they have the same ethos as you. Like yourself, I see nothing appealing about blind, blinkered loyalty....someone has to earn trust and respect.

Drumpot wrote: »

If your team do well, you dont abandon them, you try to fix them, make them better.

Really ? Do you have the same view of the Catholic Church, for example ? How do you "fix" what they did, and how do you show your anger at that agenda, except by leaving.

Drumpot wrote: »

What has happened is that politicians in all parties have grown accustomed to telling their members how things will role when it should be the other way around. If there is one criticism I would certainly give to FF supporters , its that you never held your own people accountable for letting the people of Ireland down.

At least we agree on something. And given the results, that is why it is unforgiveable.

If someone gives a drunk the keys of a car, and then doesn't think twice about that, and they make it home, you think less of them.

If they kill someone or wreck their future, their responsiblity - and people's resulting reactions - increases exponentially.

thefeatheredcat

I'd like to actually try and give some FF some compassion, but I can't, despite the fact I'm very much in that mood, sure they've lined their pockets longer than I've been in employment not to be down to their last penny.

If anyone in FF is showing any regret, humility or anything that is related to acceptance of what they have done, it is only for the International News Agencies and commentators who are following this closely and have been commenting on the debates that I've been reading.

there are some members of FF I could almost call human, but the sad fact that has been revealed is that I doubt anyone of them have a shred of dignity or respect to actually FEEL BAD that this country's a wreck, and to hold their hands up and accept the responsibility. Brian Cowen is the only one who actually did last night, but in debates Michael Martin was very reluctant to take any share of the blame or responsibility.

As for those working the campaign trail with FF, says it all really imo.

but people are going to lose jobs, people already have lost jobs, people can't get jobs, personally tragic for your personal situation and that I can show some compassion on that, but none for FF from me in those losing jobs. I had been talking to a relative who had been working closely with a local FF TD on their housing situation and they saw one of them as the good guys as he actually helped. When asked why he did not leave FF, it basically came down to not have the courage or will to stand as an Ind.

peckingduck

Drumpot wrote: »

1. People will lose their jobs. I know my sister will lose hers as a member of the FF press team. While I am glad that the people of Ireland (Dubs in particular) have given FF a lesson in accountability, its no harm sharing a thought for the people who have worked hard and will now lose their jobs simply because those in power let them down aswell.

Are you suggesting we never seek change for fear of job losses? With every FF job lost a new job will be gained, where necessary hopefully, with the new Government. Since FF caused misery in so many lives, I have little sympathy for any of their candidates tonight, I'm sure they'll survive. It's not like one of them ever did anything for my constituency anyway, perhaps the new Government will make a change, one can only hope.

Nothing could be worse than FF in power.

This day is a memorable one for the country, though, perhaps in the future, if they alter policies and come back when the country is in a rather different state, I may vote for FF.

celty

Empathy? It's the sheer neck of these corrupt FFers that got to me over the campaign. Going on about local issues which they hadn't a hope to pay for, as though the country wasn't bankrupt.

Micheal Martin screaming down Enda Kenny and accusing him of being a coward, as though he (Martin) had played no part in the ruination of our economy.

The way they tried to 'distance' themselves from their own party by playing down the words Fianna Fail in their posters and ads.

The way so many of them have refused to take the blame for a mad, greed-driven binge and then the bailout of their banker buddies which this country could not afford. Asking the pensioners and low paid to bail out a tiny clique, an elite that the pigs in 'Animal Farm' could relate to.

Empathy? Why should we feel empathy for the people who ruined this country when they never gave a damn about us ordinary peasants who didn't get to meet the bank managers on big bonuses, buy five or ten properties, or rub shoulders with Bertie and the boys in the Galway tent.

I know that not everyone in FF asked us to commit suicide three years ago, but they were all part of a sick, rotten, corrupt organisation.

I don't feel any empathy tonight with the party of Charlie Haughey, Ray Burke, Bertie Ahern, and the two Brians. They don't deserve our empathy, just as they had no respect for the plain people of Ireland during their frenzied so-called booom.

Flukey

Drumpot wrote: »

1. People will lose their jobs.

Well there is one thing all of those people could do before they finish. Within hours of the election being called, there were posters everywhere. As I type, it is just over 36 hours since the polling stations closed and I have not seen even one election worker taking a poster down. If they can be up within hours, with people working day and night to put them up, each and every one of them should be long gone by now. That includes the ones lying about as litter in hedges, roadsides, gardens etc. Without exception they should all be gone. The cable ties should be removed too, and not just cut and left lying at the bottom of the poles. So there is something for those people to do. Will they do it? Of course not.

celty

Funny how there is no sign of 'Drumpot' today.

The lack of 'empathy' is killing me!

I'm not one to gloat, the person I voted for didn't even get in, but it's great that the FFers have had their come-uppance. They walked all over the ordinary people for too long, treated us with disdain, and at last they have got a taste of their own medicine.:D