Le Crunch: England vs France Match Thread, Sat 26 February 5pm; RTÉ/BBC

thomond2006

VS

England:
15-Ben Foden, 14-Chris Ashton, 13-Mike Tindall (captain), 12-Shontayne Hape, 11-Mark Cueto, 10-Toby Flood, 9-Ben Youngs;
1-Andrew Sheridan, 2-Dylan Hartley, 3-Dan Cole, 4-Louis Deacon, 5-Tom Palmer, 6-Tom Wood, 7-James Haskell, 8-Nick Easter

Replacements: 16-Steve Thompson, 17-Alex Corbisiero, 18-Simon Shaw, 19-Hendre Fourie, 20-Danny Care, 21-Jonny Wilkinson, 22-Matt Banahan

France:
15-Clement Poitrenaud, 14-Yoann Huget, 13-Aurelien Rougerie, 12-Yannick Jauzion, 11-Vincent Clerc, 10-Francois Trinh-Duc, 9-Dimitri Yachvili;
1-Thomas Domingo, 2-William Servat, 3-Nicolas Mas, 4-Julien Pierre, 5-Lionel Nallet, 6-Thierry Dusautoir (captain), 7-Imanol Harinordoquy, 8-Sebastien Chabal

Replacements: 16-Guilhem Guirado, 17-Sylvain Marconnet, 18-Jerome Thion, 19-Julien Bonnaire, 20-Morgan Parra, 21-Damien Traille, 22-Alexis Palisson

Referee: George Clancy (Ireland)
Touch judges: Alan Lewis (Ireland) & Tim Hayes (Wales)
TV: Giulio de Santis (Italy)

France travel to Twickenham to face the 'ould enemy' in the decisive game of the tournament. The winner will have their sights firmly set on the capturing the Grand Slam with a championship victory perhaps already in the bag. France would certainly fancy their chances of completing a clean sweep of Europe with a trip to Italy and the visit of Wales to come after this weekend. Both England and France are the form teams of the championship so this promises to be a tight affair with everything on the line. Twickenham has proven to be a graveyard for France in recent times so the home side will be fancied to get the win.

So what of England? Well they seem to have finally found their ‘mojo’ under Martin Johnson, after 2 or so years of mediocrity. When “Johnno” first took over the hot seat, the English players looked terrified to express themselves on the field, instead playing safety first, conservative rugby. Johnson has always come across as an intimidating figure and England’s initial performances under his wing suggested he did nothing to change his persona when he first became head coach. The reports were the players were scared to question his judgement in any way and always played within the plan, which was notoriously conservative.

Since the summer tour, there has been a complete sea chance in the English psyche. Whether this change was initiated by the management or the by the senior players in the squad, there must have been some sense of “We can’t go on much longer like this”. One can also look at selections. Gone are the days when has-beens like Andy Goode, Steve Borthwick and Paul Sackey were being given the nod. The side has been a fresh boost with the arrival of many talented youngsters and the coming of age of many players already in the set-up like Toby Flood and Tom Palmer. The expectation of the English side in the media has generally been over the top, but a high expectation is justified for the first time since the 2003 Rugby World Cup.

However to take a cynical view, are England really as good as we think? Certainly they have never been better in the last 7 years, but is it correct that be talked about as a potential dark horse for the World Cup in September? In general, a team is never as bad its harshest criticism or as good as its highest praise. It is clear that both Wales and Italy failed to perform against England and it was not necessarily due to the pressure that England were exerting. In my opinion Wales and Italy were they own worst enemies and England to a point profited from it, this is certainly true in the case of Wales when their set piece fell apart and the backline were frequently running across the field and putting themselves into touch. When Wales sorted out their own problems they were able to mangle Scotland in Murrayfield. So were England just plain lucky? France should show the rugby world either way where England are at. Many of the ‘units’ in the England team wouldn’t cut the mustard in a team that strives to win a World Cup. The backfive of the scrum (without the outstanding Courtney Lawes) looks lightweight and doesn’t carry the ball with enough authority. England have the worst centre partnership in the tournament outside of Italy: Tindall and Hape are very one paced and have been exposed too many times in defence. What England do possess is a solid set-piece, outstanding half-backs (with excellent substitutes if required) and an extremely dangerous back three.

Enough on England, what of France? As always it is damn near impossible to make a clear evaluation of where they stand, they are as consistent as bank share prices. In the last 3 years when it looked like they have settled on a side and began performing to their potential, they either fall to pieces or Marc Lievremont decides he wants to rotate the team for some reason. In that sense they are exciting, you never know what team will turn up. It is a nightmarish situation for a french supporter of course. Sadly this will likely cost them at the World Cup, where they will likely do a 2007 by knocking out a big gun and subsequently blowing it against (perceived) weaker opposition.

As with England, France could well be overrated. They did not fire at all cylinders against Ireland and were defensively redundant against an average Scotland side (as proved by Wales). While Ireland's error count proved to be their ultimate doing, France did take the game by the scruff of the neck with Medard's try from first phase ball. Their blessing of two exceptional goal kickers in Parra and Yachvili also proved crucial as they ruthlessly punished Ireland's indiscipline. While winning away to Ireland was a fantastic result, the performance wasn't up to standard. France will and should expect more of themselves, given the depth of talent at their disposal. God only knows where France really are as a side and given their history of inconsistencies, we'll probably never truly have a clear vision of France's standing.

The Lineups:

England make just one change to the team that routed Italy at Twickenham two weeks ago. Andrew Sheridan who missed that game through injury returns to start at loosehead, with Alex Corbisiero reverting to the bench and David Wilson dropping out of the 22 altogether. Captain Lewis Moody who came through club duty at the weekend suffered a reaction to a knee injury in training so he doesn't make the side.

France have made a host of changes to the side that won in Dublin. Dimitri Yachvili, Sebastian Chabal, Vincent Clerc and Yannick Jauzion are all named in the starting XV with Morgan Parra, Julien Bonnaire and Damian Traille all dropped to the bench. Maxime Medard was originally pencilled in as the starting fullback but he has pulled out through injury so Clement Poitrenaud starts at 15 with Alexis Palisson coming onto the bench.

Key Battle:

Ben Youngs vs Dimitri Yachvili: The best scrum half in the world comes up against a seasoned campaigner. Youngs is quite simply an all round scrum half. While teams like Ireland ponder around with scrum halves with various strengths and weaknesses, Youngs simply has it all. The selection of Yachvili is a big call by Marc Lievremont. Morgan Parra has been sensational for the last 12 months and performed very well against Ireland. It could be case of simple rotation on the coach's part but perhaps Lievremont sees Yachvili in a leadership role with his vast experience. Both players are superb and their personal tussle is a mouthwatering prospect.

Key Weapon for England:

Toby Flood and Chris Ashton have proven to be an astute partnership in attack. Ashton runs support lines off Flood's shoulder to devastating effect. Flood (who is deceptively quick) makes the half break and creates the space for Ashton to score. Both Wales and Italy have fallen victim to this combination. France defence coach Dave Ellis has said that France have devised a system to combat the threat of Ashton. This defence system must be a well oiled machine to stop Ashton in his current unstoppable form. Their priority should be to stop delivery at source i.e. get to Flood.

Prediction: On paper this should be the best game of the tournament bar none. Both sides have their weaknesses and the result should largely depend on how these weakneses are exposed by the other side. I fancy England to have too much and with vocal home support behind them, they should carry the day. England by 7-10 points.

---

Pictures taken from Sky Sports/Planet Rugby sources. England logo taken from rfu.com, FFR logo taken from frenchclubrugby.com.

Refs and Teams taken from here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/9406593.stm

Everything else is my own work.

sock puppet

Can't see France winning. The trouble for them is that they're weak in the same areas that England are.

Morf

sock puppet wrote: »

Can't see France winning. The trouble for them is that they're weak in the same areas that England are.

Are you trying to compare Hape and Tindall to Jauzion and Rougerie? Rougerie might not be a centre but he's streets ahead of Tindall and Jauzion and Hape etc. etc..

toomevara

Really hope this one lives up to the hype. The 6N desperately needs a decent high-quality game. England are a centre-pairing away from a really decent team. Ashton, Cueto and Foden will continue to provide the real attacking edge. Not at all convinced by France thus far (they seem so much less than the sum of their parts which is a real hallmark of the Lievremont era) and reckon they'll struggle at Twickenham as they always tend to do of late. England by a smidge, but tbh, don't care who wins as long as we get a real anglo-french street fight.

conf101

toomevara wrote: »

Really hope this one lives up to the hype. The 6N desperately needs a decent high-quality game.

Sorry, I know this is off topic but was Ireland France not a top notch game?

Anyway. I have a feeling England will win this but not by a whole lot! Between 5 and 8 points.

Sangre

England are over-hyped but they're doing the basic well and have kept mistakes to a mininum. France are very error prone at the moment and their defensive game has been pretty woeful. I think England will win by 7-12 points.

If England get a decent backrow and midfield they'll have the makings of a great team.

toomevara

conf101 wrote: »

Sorry, I know this is off topic but was Ireland France not a top notch game?
.

Not for me. desperately error strewn, very poor skill level especially from Ireland. Exciting,possibly, but high quality? I'd say emphatically not. Put it this way, and again, we're in danger of veering off topic, nobody in the SH is quaking in their boots as a result of anything they've seen in the 6N thus far.

twinytwo

I can see france winning this. They have to know that they will beat wales and italy so england is all that stands in the way of the slam. Its a bit of a downer that medard is out. Franc on papar have a better player in every position. With the exception of Ashton. They will beat England if they prevent them getting the ball. Keep it up the jumper and haskel and co are bouind to start giveing away penos.

Going to go france by at least 5.

twinytwo

twinytwo wrote: »

I can see france winning this. They have to know that they will beat wales and italy so england is all that stands in the way of the slam. Its a bit of a downer that medard is out. Franc on papar have a better player in every position. With the exception of Ashton. They will beat England if they prevent them getting the ball. Keep it up the jumper and haskel and co are bouind to start giveing away penos.

Going to go france by at least 5.

I predict a French implosion with a healthy but undeserved English winning margin.

sock puppet

Morf wrote: »

Are you trying to compare Hape and Tindall to Jauzion and Rougerie? Rougerie might not be a centre but he's streets ahead of Tindall and Jauzion and Hape etc. etc..

Better but not by that much. England have already come up against better and it didn't have a huge effect on the match.

tommy57

I'm going to go for the french, I think england will bottle it seen now as their favourites for once. this will be their first real test. If they beat france well then i'll be convinced by them. same hype in AI's when they beat australia, then imploded against south africa. They have been threatning to become good last few years.

twinytwo

sock puppet wrote: »

Better but not by that much. England have already come up against better and it didn't have a huge effect on the match.

Tindall and Hape are rubbish... i dont think that anyone in the world would take them over Rougerie and Jauzion...

toomevara

twinytwo wrote: »

Tindall and Hape are rubbish... i dont think that anyone in the world would take them over Rougerie and Jauzion...

Rubbish? Now that's hardly fair is it? Two exceptionally accomplished players by any yardstick. In the same class as Rougerie and jauzion? Nope, but Tindall is certainly better than either of the Frenchmen in defence. The guy is there for a reason, to counter the huge size of the French midfield. I mean, has there ever been a bigger French team across the field? Just monstrous. Hape is for my money a lot better than he's ever given credit for, and he and Ashton are showing signs of developing a decent on pitch partnership.

twinytwo

toomevara wrote: »

Rubbish? Now that's hardly fair is it? Two exceptionally accomplished players by any yardstick. In the same class as Rougerie and jauzion? Nope, but Tindall is certainly better than either of the Frenchmen in defence. The guy is there for a reason, to counter the huge size of the French midfield. I mean, has there ever been a bigger French team across the field? Just monstrous. Hape is for my money a lot better than he's ever given credit for, and he and Ashton are showing signs of developing a decent on pitch partnership.

We shall have to wait and see how they get on. If the french play my money is on them (tindall and hape) getting a spanking. The same will happen in dublin if Darcy gets his act together.

steve9859

Tidal is a singularly unimaginative player, agreed, more suited to the 2003 england style of play. but he is a better defender than any of the centers mentioned in this thread so far. (And has a hot royal fiancee!)

Would like to see flutey back in the team though. And I'd like to see Abendonan get a start as well.

France by 11-15 if they show up.

Tight game with neither team Winning by more than 4 if the same French team we played turn up.

France haven't got out of second gear, feel that this may be the only game of the 6N they target, take england's scalp in England in a WC year, take the wind out of their sails.

toomevara

toomevara wrote: »

Rubbish? Now that's hardly fair is it?

He is a one dimensional crash ball merchant without an ounce of creativity in himm, but it suits the England gameplan just fine. It'll be interesting to see if they get away with a toothless midfield as the packs will be relatively well matched. They wont have the same dominance they had in the last two games.

Tindall is a poor man's Kevin Maggs, the kind of player nobody wants to see anymore, a number 8 playing first centre. Strangles his own team tbh.

sock puppet

tommy57 wrote: »

I'm going to go for the french, I think england will bottle it seen now as their favourites for once. this will be their first real test. If they beat france well then i'll be convinced by them. same hype in AI's when they beat australia, then imploded against south africa. They have been threatning to become good last few years.

Yeah the past few years this has been a kind of back against the wall game for England after previous poor performances. This is the first time in a while that they're expected to win. Although against South Africa I'd say they just came up against a better team.

almighty1

I really hope that England beat France :eek:. Just so we can deny them the GS on the final day

David900

almighty1 wrote: »

I really hope that England beat France :eek:. Just so we can deny them the GS on the final day

I hope it doesn't get that far to be honest. I find it quite annoying to read the smug English press in relation to anything to do with Ireland.
That's why I hope France put 20+ points on them. As unlikely as it might be, I can only dream

toomevara

Deleted User wrote: »

Tindall is a poor man's Kevin Maggs, the kind of player nobody wants to see anymore, a number 8 playing first centre. Strangles his own team tbh.

Nah, in fairness Kevin Maggs is/was a poor man's Tindall. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Maggs has a world cup winners medal in his sock drawer!

toomevara

toomevara wrote: »

Nah, in fairness Kevin Maggs is/was a poor man's Tindall. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Maggs has a world cup winners medal in his sock drawer!

Iain Balshaw has one too. Rugby is a team game. Medals attributed to players are a fairly false measure of ability.

LondonIrish90

Forget Scotland, Forget Wales, this is the big one for the English. Lievremont's comments will do nothing but fire up and bring together an already close knit set of players. Quite optimistic about this one considering France's record at Twickenham and how sub standard they looked a couple of weeks ago. Think we will win by 10 points.

toomevara

Deleted User wrote: »

Iain Balshaw has one too. Rugby is a team game. Medals attributed to players are a fairly false measure of ability.

Hmmm, Tindall was a key member of one of the most successful International rugby teams of the professional era and Kevin Maggs, (no disrespect to the guy very underrated during his career) well he wasn't. Tindall was involved in teams who regularly beat the all blacks, the boks the aussies and the french, poor oul Kevin, well he wasn't. No valid comparison between the two. Yeah Tindall's a big one dimensional lump, but he's a very decent player with it (despite the fact that he's the kind of English player Irish people instinctively love to hate).

steve9859

Deleted User wrote: »

Iain Balshaw has one too. Rugby is a team game. Medals attributed to players are a fairly false measure of ability.

Rubbish! If a team is winning trophies it is a good team (and a team that beats all southern hemisphere teams home and away in a season, and finishes is with a world cup is a good team). It will have good depth and strong competition for places. Therefore to win a medal in that team you have to get into it. And therefore you are pretty damn good! You dont have the luxury of being flattered by being a decent player in a mediocre team.

Ian_K

Hope England beat them and are coming to Dublin looking for a grand slam, will be interesting to say the least!

steve9859

steve9859 wrote: »

Rubbish! If a team is winning trophies it is a good team (and a team that beats all southern hemisphere teams home and away in a season, and finishes is with a world cup is a good team). It will have good depth and strong competition for places. Therefore to win a medal in that team you have to get into it. And therefore you are pretty damn good! You dont have the luxury of being flattered by being a decent player in a mediocre team.

A good team does not mean a good group of individuals. As we have seen time and time again, a group of phenomenal players does not make a good team. Likewise, a great team does not mean it has great players.

Greece won the European Championships in Soccer with a side even the biggest soccer fan would struggle to name one individual from.

I have no problem with someone disagreeing on my viewpoint on a player, but calling it rubbish is pretty outlandish.

Tindall was part of a well drilled team that strangled opposition and played negative rugby that worked due to the game of the day. Tindall is not a stand out player, is so one dimensional that when he turns sideways you could get a paper cut from him.

Aaaanyway, this is all OT.

Allez les Bleus!

yimrsg

toomevara wrote: »

Hmmm, Tindall was a key member of one of the most successful International rugby teams of the professional era and Kevin Maggs, (no disrespect to the guy very underrated during his career) well he wasn't. Tindall was involved in teams who regularly beat the all blacks, the boks the aussies and the french, poor oul Kevin, well he wasn't. No valid comparison between the two. Yeah Tindall's a big one dimensional lump, but he's a very decent player with it (despite the fact that he's the kind of English player Irish people instinctively love to hate).

I still think England have a creative blackhole in midfield with Tindall & Hape. Tinfall's a dinosaur in todays game, a bludgeon of a player who fitted in well with the 2003 WC winning team as ad-hoc backrower. Now centres are required to be much more. Look at what Australia & NZ have coming through in the centres, and see how far away England are from being a complete team 1-15. They've done well considering his inclusion but he's a relic.

Flood has had to do much more attacking wise, and if a team can shut him down then England's creativity will be stifled. With him & Hape in there they're limiting the potential of their more exciting backs, defensively sound but ultimately offer little attacking threat with ball in hand.

I think England will win as Lievremont has probably picked a weaker French side than the one who beat Ireland. England by 5-10.

toomevara

toomevara wrote: »

Yeah Tindall's a big one dimensional lump, but he's a very decent player with it (despite the fact that he's the kind of rugby player rugby fans instinctively love to hate).

fyp
bigotry isn't my thing

Hippo

France have a poor recent record in Twickenham, England to nick it.

toomevara

toomevara wrote: »

Hmmm, Tindall was a key member of one of the most successful International rugby teams of the professional era and Kevin Maggs, (no disrespect to the guy very underrated during his career) well he wasn't. Tindall was involved in teams who regularly beat the all blacks, the boks the aussies and the french, poor oul Kevin, well he wasn't. No valid comparison between the two. Yeah Tindall's a big one dimensional lump, but he's a very decent player with it

Thats disingenuous to say the least. Tindall played a minor role in a classic 10-man gameplan used by England. I'll put it this way: how many highlights reels are occupied by Tindall on youtube? Or anywhere? I'd struggle to think of any moments of brilliance. England would have performed well in those tests regardless of what centre they picked. A key member? You're having a laugh. I can only imagine how much better the English backline would be without ol' square wheels clogging up the midfield.

The comparison between Tindall and Maggs is useful - Maggs didnt play behind the best pack of the era. He's a crash ball plodder with little else to his game.

toomevara wrote: »

(despite the fact that he's the kind of English player Irish people instinctively love to hate).

I resent that. I don't like him because he's a boring [edit] substandard [/edit] rugby player, not because he's English ta very much. What "kind" of English players do paddies like to hate anyway?

toomevara

Deleted User wrote: »

fyp
bigotry isn't my thing

Apologies emmet, if that came across..didn't mean that at all and certainly not directed at you. Guess the proof of the pudding: Re Tindall will come tomorrow aft! Cue disastrous performance where he leaks tries like a sieve!

toomevara

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats disingenuous to say the least. Tindall played a minor role in a classic 10-man gameplan used by England.

Couldnt disagree more, a key lynch pin in the success of the Woodward era.

corny

France are far too porous in defence these days so Ashton and co might have another field day. I'd actually love to see England go a score or two ahead and watch the French reaction. For my money the Aussie Autumn Annihilation still leaves a scar and they'd be more than willing to capitulate again. England by 25 and Lievremont sacked on Tuesday!:eek:

David900

[edit] substandard [/edit] rugby player, not because he's English ta very much. What "kind" of English players do paddies like to hate anyway?[/QUOTE]

Don't know about the love to hate, I think English rugby does have a 'type' though - one that's instilled in my mind anyway, and it looks like this:





:eek:

steve9859

You left out the great, furrowed brow, speaking into his secret water bottle radio, standing on the wrong side of the red carpet, Martin Johnson !!!

And I'm guessing u r not from munster or Neil Back and his left hand would have made the cut as well!!

David900

Haha, good observation - I'm not from Munster. My apologies though, I'll just add them in:

toomevara

David900 wrote: »

Don't know about the love to hate,:

jaysis, all I meant was, historically we don't tend to like big One dimensional brusers in the centres, we much prefer silky skill-meisters like D'arcy and BOD with a number of strings to their bow. Should perhaps have made that clearer m'lud....The English on the other hand have a tradition of Tindallesque sorts in the middle of the park....apologies to all those who got the wrong end of the stick....

David900

toomevara wrote: »

jaysis, all I meant was, historically we don't tend to like big One dimensional brusers in the centres, we much prefer silky skill-meisters like D'arcy and BOD with a number of strings to their bow. Should perhaps have made that clearer m'lud....The English on the other hand have a tradition of Tindallesque sorts in the middle of the park....apologies to all those who got the wrong end of the stick....

I know what ya meant - didn't take any offence to it.
I'd agree with you too. Sometimes things are taken too literal on here...

almighty1

Ehhh I thought England were away to Scotland this year. This will be the acid-test for England, beat France tomorrow, Scots are playing very poorly at the moment and then perhaps a GS decider in Dublin.

Could be a Triple Crown for Ireland or a GS/TC for England on the cards so has the potential to be a massive game. Alot of rugby to be played until that point but England are in a very very strong position.

I reckon England by 10 points - home advantage is crucial.

ShamoBuc

This should provide us with a good game. The French should play better than they did in Dublin while the English are capable of putting in another big performance at home. I think the French will win by 5 or 6 points which would be a big dent in englands plans.
I hope the ref and his buddies have a good game as I feel they might need eyes in the back of their heads tomorrow. I am expecting a bruiser with quite a few yellows being trotted out.

Judgement Day

Thomond - Great write up as usual except for the reference to England as possible 'dark horses' for the World Cup - shades of George Hook and Scotland being the 'dark horses' for the 6N this year. I just can't call this game, but for the first time in ages I will be happy to see England run out winners if France fail to show up. It should be a real cracker.

stephen_n

toomevara wrote: »

jaysis, all I meant was, historically we don't tend to like big One dimensional brusers in the centres, we much prefer silky skill-meisters like D'arcy and BOD with a number of strings to their bow. Should perhaps have made that clearer m'lud....The English on the other hand have a tradition of Tindallesque sorts in the middle of the park....apologies to all those who got the wrong end of the stick....

In the last few years yes or rather since Sir Clive, but Guscot was fairly silky by any mans standards.

toomevara

stephen_n wrote: »

Guscot was fairly silky by any mans standards.

lol, indeed you are correct and right sir...

JustinDee

steve9859 wrote: »

You left out the great, furrowed brow, speaking into his secret water bottle radio, standing on the wrong side of the red carpet, Martin Johnson !!!

Do people still believe this tale?

BoarHunter

I don't think France have what it takes this year to make it to twickenham. We need a much better fly half. Not just one that is good to attack the line but one who is able to relieve his pack by finding the diagonales, keeping the oppositions wingers on the back of the pitch. England should hold the french scrum. If England play their running rugby and that France is on a good day it could be closer

trackguy

JustinDee wrote: »

Do people still believe this tale?

I had assumed that was just the first time people had seen that type of water bottle and thought there was something fishy about it??

PhatPiggins

BoarHunter wrote: »

I don't think France have what it takes this year to make it to twickenham. We need a much better fly half. Not just one that is good to attack the line but one who is able to relieve his pack by finding the diagonales, keeping the oppositions wingers on the back of the pitch. England should hold the french scrum. If England play their running rugby and that France is on a good day it could be closer

Thank you, I think he's the most over hyped player in the 6N's. Offers nothing special in defence, is cat when his pack are under pressure and has no kicking game of worth. Great going forward, especially when he's getting an armchair ride from his forwards.

We've had this conversation before I think BH and nothing has changed in the 12 months since we last had it.

Trinh-Duc is fairly plain as a 10 tbh. No really outstanding parts to his game. What are the other options available to France?

PhatPiggins

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Thank you, I think he's the most over hyped player in the 6N's. Offers nothing special in defence, is cat when his pack are under pressure and has no kicking game of worth. Great going forward, especially when he's getting an armchair ride from his forwards.

We've had this conversation before I think BH and nothing has changed in the 12 months since we last had it.

I dont think he's really been hyped to begin with. I thought the general consensus was that he was a weakness in the French team, no?