Boards AC

ManwitaPlan

Is it still going?

TheRoadRunner

Good question was wondering that myself. It seemed like an awful lot of hassle to get the club recognised and would be a pity if it has been neglected!

shels4ever

The Club are still looking for people to sign up for the year, if they get the numbers the club will keep going. If people don't sign up then they won't. So if your planning on joining now is the time.

TheRoadRunner

shels4ever wrote: »

The Club are still looking for people to sign up for the year, if they get the numbers the club will keep going. If people don't sign up then they won't. So if your planning on joining now is the time.

Are they actively recruiting? First time I've heard of them looking for new members!

shels4ever

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Are they actively recruiting? First time I've heard of them looking for new members!

At the moment it seems to be mostly trying to get existing members to sign up, There should have been a thread here along time ago to get people involved.

donothoponpop

There's been a bit of discussion between members on how best to proceed- everyone agrees that BAC is a great idea, but the debate has been about staying regged with AAI is a good idea or not. I summarized it as follows on the private forum (I stress this is only how I see it, this isn't a concensus or anything):

"Points in favour of staying affiliated to AAI
We can enter a team in AAI XC relay events;
Runners get to start the national 10k champs in the club pen;
Runners who feel other clubs are too fast for them feel more accepted by BAC.

Points against staying affiliated to AAI
Most members gain very little from AAI membership;
Our most successful branches of BAC (imra, bhaa, road relays) don't require it;
Its a pretense to believe we can compete at AAI level (and it is about competing at that standard, and not just making up numbers);
Faster athletes will benefit more from proper clubs training and coaching.

If anyone wishes to add anything to the above, feel free, and comments are welcomed.

We're winning medals at IMRA level with Boards teams- no AAI registration needed. At some stage runners who compete for different AAI clubs, but run imra for BAC, may be asked to choose which one they want to run under (officialdom always raises its head), and I'd hate to think we would lose a lot of members because BAC happened to be AAI registered only to suit some vague notion of "club membership"- if people want to be AAI regged, they should be willing to turn up at AAI events and compete against other AAI clubs on a regular basis, rather than keep AAI registration in the sock drawer as some sort of validity that you're a proper runner, but never using it where it matters, in competition."

(Another "for" I overlooked is priority entry to the Ballycotton 10.)

If its going to be discussed out here on the main forum so be it, of course a load of runners are going to say its a shame to let go AAI reg. But you have to ask, who is willing to put in the effort organizing teams etc. who will turn up at AAI events? My view (only as a member) is that the AAI reg is a hinderance to signing up more (for BHAA, IMRA, meet-n-train's, etc), and its a pretense to those who are wearing their AAI-affiliation as a badge, yet not turning up at AAI races to compete. Anyone good enough to compete at AAI level would be far better served joining a proper club.

This has been semi-discussed behind the scenes for a few weeks now with no conclusion, so i guess its timely to bring it out here.

BeepBeep67

Another option would be to re-register the club with a smaller county (not sure of the regulations - just throwing it out there).
I'll use Wicklow as an example as I'm familiar with it, but it applies to some other counties also. If Boards AC was registered in Wicklow it would compete as Boards AC in County championships, but for races outside of Wicklow would compete as part of Sli Cualann (Wicklow's umbrella club), therefore possibly satisfying the AAI membership piece, the club being more competitive at county level and your stronger athletes needs could be staisfied by competing for the County club.

RayCun

I was half thinking of joining BAC this year, but never really got close to putting my hand in my pocket.
The things I'd look for from a club are
group training sessions when I want them, advice from other runners, socialising after races - three things I get from Boards anyway, without having to join BAC
positioning in the GIR - nice, but not worth a lot to me
a singlet - which I'd like, to meet other boardsies (and to get more pictures taken!) but costs more too

Maybe in another year or too I'll be a more competitive runner, and then it would be good to have a club to compete for, but not this year*.
So there didn't seem to be much point.

*and my son will be joining a running club this year, so it would make sense to join the same one, if I'm going to join any.

donothoponpop

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Another option would be to re-register the club with a smaller county (not sure of the regulations - just throwing it out there).
I'll use Wicklow as an example as I'm familiar with it, but it applies to some other counties also. If Boards AC was registered in Wicklow it would compete as Boards AC in County championships, but for races outside of Wicklow would compete as part of Sli Cualann (Wicklow's umbrella club), therefore possibly satisfying the AAI membership piece, the club being more competitive at county level and your stronger athletes needs could be staisfied by competing for the County club.

The issue isn't really about competing in a tougher (Dublin) environment- it's more the demographic of the club. I'd estimate that 95% of the clubs members have no aspiration to run at AAI level. Most want a singlet to run under in road races, which can be done without AAI. BHAA and IMRA are both successful for BAC without AAI, the meet-and-trains organized here from Boards are a success without AAI, and in the couple of years of existence there's only been a couple of AAI BAC teams.

The guys who set up BAC (Woddle, Peckham, and Shels) have done great work in promoting it and organizing it to AAI level, but the amount of people willing to step up and tog out for AAI races just was never there. I believe the forum here would be better served keeping BAC as a loose grouping of road, BHAA, IMRA, runners, (buy the singlet if you want); and more talented runners should be encouraged to develop in a proper bricks-and-mortar AC. Also, there's a modicum of driving kids to races coaching talent on this forum that could be better utilized in a physical club.

--amadeus--

It would be a shame to see it fade away totally, it's one of the high points of this forum, IMO. That said if the benefits of sticking with the AAI aren't worth it for the members then no point in maintaining it.

The only thing I would say is that it would be nice to see a bit more about the club on the main forum - we have had a huge turnover of members since BAC was established and a lot of people on here now may not know anything about it.

donothoponpop

Another benefit of being AAI-regged, from their website:

"Our Development Team offers:

Guidance and support from the local RDO (Regional Development Officer)
Three free places on Athletics Leader or Assistant Coach course
On completion of Athletics Leader course by three people, a bag of Little Athletics equipment"

I'd certainly be interested in this, although I suppose the spirit of it is to encourage kids joining AC's, and I can't imagine this happening under the present structure of BAC.

RoyMcC

donothoponpop wrote: »

"Our Development Team offers:
Guidance and support from the local RDO (Regional Development Officer)

I wouldn't bet the farm on this happening, unless things have changed... :rolleyes:

TFBubendorfer

donothoponpop wrote: »

"Points in favour of staying affiliated to AAI
We can enter a team in AAI XC relay events;
Runners get to start the national 10k champs in the club pen;
Runners who feel other clubs are too fast for them feel more accepted by BAC.

Points against staying affiliated to AAI
Most members gain very little from AAI membership;
Our most successful branches of BAC (imra, bhaa, road relays) don't require it;
Its a pretense to believe we can compete at AAI level (and it is about competing at that standard, and not just making up numbers);
Faster athletes will benefit more from proper clubs training and coaching.

Wouldn't it make sense then to organise a poll of the existing members and let them decide democratically?

shels4ever

One thing that would need to be looked at when people joining BAC is what happens if they get board on Boards.ie , it can be a bit of a fad for a while but people do lose interest and stop coming on to the forum, This has happened for a good few members of the club, and there is not much else to be gained from membership.

There would need to be some further communication or club like structure in place to encourage people to keep their membership. Annual membership drive, Dublin marathon training group etc. How many people post in the run up to a marathon, set up training groups and have people run for BAC. There is lots that can be done.

There will always be a large turnover in this style of club but you do need people to step up and help organize things.

Even if I have left the club I would hate to see it fold.
How many members have actually posted on this thread?

robinph

shels4ever wrote: »

Even if I have left the club I would hate to see it fold.

+1

shels4ever wrote: »

How many members have actually posted on this thread?

+1

donothoponpop

shels4ever wrote: »

There would need to be some further communication or club like structure in place to encourage people to keep their membership. Annual membership drive, Dublin marathon training group etc. How many people post in the run up to a marathon, set up training groups and have people run for BAC. There is lots that can be done.

The current model could be hindering this from happening.Anyone who wants to run for BAC in imra, just sticks that down as their club when regging, and runs (in the singlet or not). There's a fair amount of team camaraderie, and we're successful against the bricks'n'mortar clubs who run the hills. I've met up and trained with loads of BAC runners in the hills, we organize recce's, mountain Nav sessions, etc. A focal point for the year is the WW relay (which we won last year, and will be defending in a few months time). All of this is done via the forum here.

This imra model could easily transfer to other areas. There's a bunch of runners who organize meet and train sessions in the Phoenix Park via the forum, thats very successful. Road and marathon relay's are ran with teams from the forum. All of this might be more fruitful, and bring in larger numbers, if BAC drops its AAI reg, and focus's on its strengths, which is the large number of posters and readers on this forum who would be willing to "join" a looser version of a club. The imra success could be emulated elsewhere, if enough people step up to drive the direction a little bit.

(Anyone want to give their reason's why they'd like to stay in the AAI umprella?)

RoyMcC

donothoponpop wrote: »

(Anyone want to give their reason's why they'd like to stay in the AAI umprella?)

The PL insurance cover that comes with membership is always useful if you're organising stuff.

BeepBeep67

RoyMcC wrote: »

I wouldn't bet the farm on this happening, unless things have changed... :rolleyes:

The RDO aligned to Wicklow is very active.

gerard65

It was a great concept and may have worked if we could have attracted more members, but we max out at approx. 25 which just wasn't enough to keep going. Might work better in countries with bigger populations. But some good things came from it, the mountain running guys have had great success, it encouraged the meet and train groups and form teams for the BHAA races. I was maybe a bit selfish in deciding not to renew my membership this year, but to be honest I was getting nothing out of my AI membership, maybe if I was younger and could compete in the graded meetings etc, whereas I can compete in the BHAA races and we even win team prizes sometimes.

menoscemo

I was really keen to see the club remain active and I definately thought it was being under promoted. I think lots more would have joined if they knew it was about.

That said; when the discussion was being held on the private forum, I was very convinced by D'pop's logic. I know the club management always were trying to get us to send teams into xcountrys and AAI events, but there were never enough people willing to race. I personally had little interest in such things as i wa always training for another race/felt I would be out of my league in these events. So what is the point of paying for AAI membership?

The group meet ups, social events, relay teams (for cork and the like), Imra, BHAA races etc are open to Boards AC and Non boards AC members alike so there is really no advantage to me to paying a yearly sub to get AAI affiliation. If I advance in my running and need a proper club structure (which might happen next year) I'd be better served going to an established bricks and mortar club anyway to avail of the track, coaches etc.

I think the club should go on in some way without AAI affiliation and membership. We should still oraginse relay teams, meet ups, maybe even the odd private race ourselves anyway. People should be able to buy a singlet and put Boards AC down as their club if they want when enetering races.

tHE vAGGABOND

menoscemo wrote: »

I think the club should go on in some way without AAI affiliation and membership. We should still oraginse relay teams, meet ups, maybe even the odd private race ourselves anyway. People should be able to buy a singlet and put Boards AC down as their club if they want when enetering races.

I was a paid up member last year, and I agree with this. Boards AC does not have to be AAI club, but could continue more in the format of a "social club" - where folks arrange to meet up and go for a run together, or do long runs together [so folks in the same geographical area can sort it out, it does not all have to be about the phoenix park].

In the thread on members forum I offered to help run things, but that thread descended into another direction. So I'm now going to pop along to a club in the phoenix park tomorrow morning and check them out. I just want some like minded folks to train with, and some folks to hang out with after races and stuff [I only made it to the unofficial phoenix park weekly sessions a few times due to injury and the folks doing that doing much longer distances that I was doing at the times].

robinph

People shouldn't rule themselves out of being good enough to take part in the county/ province/ national events so quickly. Part of my reason for joining initially was that I wasn't good enough, or bothered enough, to join a "proper" club. But Boards AC got me entry to those county and national events, I didn't come last, but I did get to take part in things that I'd never have done otherwise.

I have now moved on due to other reasons and have joined a bigger more established club, but without Boards AC that would never have happened.

donothoponpop

So would there be many people willing to join Boards AC if it was to become a "social" running club? You could buy the vest, meet and train with others via this forum, run in road races/relays, imra, bhaa, with the vest (and still be able to run with another AAI club if regged with them). There'd need to be someone willing to push the relay/bhaa side of things, or develop other avenues (I'm happy enough to keep pushing it via imra).

Any of the committee want to give their opinion? (It's not my place to decide what happens to the BAC name/vest etc).

RayCun

Sorry, I'm not clear on what you're suggesting.
You can already meet and train with others without joining Boards AC, and (I think?) register as Boards for IMRA and BHAA without joining.
So, is this just signing up to buy a vest?

(Not that there's anything wrong with that, and I'd be interested, but am I missing something else here?)

TheRoadRunner

donothoponpop wrote: »

There'd need to be someone willing to push the relay/bhaa side of things, or develop other avenues

Do the BHAA allow you to run as Boards AC ?

donothoponpop

RayCun wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not clear on what you're suggesting.
You can already meet and train with others without joining Boards AC, and (I think?) register as Boards for IMRA and BHAA without joining.
So, is this just signing up to buy a vest?

(Not that there's anything wrong with that, and I'd be interested, but am I missing something else here?)

Yeah, this suggestion is as above. Currently you sign up and get AAI membership, but that doesn't seem to be of any benefit to 90%+ of members (judging by the turnout at AAI races). I'm wondering if more people would be willing to sign up if the AAI membership was gone- so in effect you would just be "joining" for the vest. However, it might give a shot in the arm to the club, give more posters on the forum a sense of belonging, and encourage more group training and racing.

Certainly thats how it works for imra, and BAC is going from strength to strength in that department, so I think that model might transfer very well to the forum at large.

donothoponpop

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Do the BHAA allow you to run as Boards AC ?

I stand to be corrected RR, but I think they run as Boards IT, wearing the club vest? (Never run bhaa myself)

RayCun

Cool, sounds good then. There was a thread last year where 70/80 people said they'd be interested in a Boards training top, so I'd imagine there'd be plenty interested in a vest. I'd get one myself.

shels4ever

Nope the BHAA don't allow the Boards IT team to run anymore. This was stopped after a couple or races after some people were giving out.(as it did break the bhaa rules). There are just some sector teams now.

The idea about a social one is something that was also floated before with a social membership as well as AAI membership. But the main reason the club has come to this point is that most the committe have gone awol, it maybe just the way things go online that people get into something for a while and then move on. If the club is to keep running in any form you need to have a new committe. It will need 2-3 people to step up and take over. Peckham has already siad he will register people for this year if 10 people sign up(looks like this isnt far from been reached). This is the minimum number set out by the AAI for a club.

robinph

donothoponpop wrote: »

I stand to be corrected RR, but I think they run as Boards IT, wearing the club vest? (Never run bhaa myself)

Not done any of the BHAA races for a while myself, but it was only a very brief spell that we entered a team as Boards IT. Then they changed the way teams were setup and last year there were several boardsies who happened to all work in IT and were entered in the same industry category team.

We only ran as IT nerds who happen to all know each other via the website boards.ie and not as anything to do with Boards AC.

donothoponpop

RayCun wrote: »

Cool, sounds good then. There was a thread last year where 70/80 people said they'd be interested in a Boards training top, so I'd imagine there'd be plenty interested in a vest. I'd get one myself.

With 70/80 different designs, built-in ipod pouches, gel pockets, fabrics, etc... at least the BAC design is agreed upon:D

One of the limitations of BAC was its geographical spread- very hard for anyone outside Dublin to feel very connected. This suggestion would mainly be a way for Boardies to recognise each other in races, and build on the friendships, training partners, and rivalries, from there. Photo's from overseas races in BAC vests, that sort of thing.

donothoponpop

shels4ever wrote: »

Nope the BHAA don't allow the Boards IT team to run anymore. This was stopped after a couple or races after some people were giving out.(as it did break the bhaa rules). There are just some sector teams now.

The idea about a social one is something that was also floated before with a social membership as well as AAI membership. But the main reason the club has come to this point is that most the committe have gone awol, it maybe just the way things go online that people get into something for a while and then move on. If the club is to keep running in any form you need to have a new committe. It will need 2-3 people to step up and take over. Peckham has already siad he will register people for this year if 10 people sign up(looks like this isnt far from been reached). This is the minimum number set out by the AAI for a club.

Thanks for that Shels, and I just want to stress that my suggestion is just that, a suggestion (I've certainly no rights to decide on what happens to the name, or the singlet). If the BAC committee want to remain AAI-regged I'll fully support that too. Would a poll of interest- AAI vs social- be ok, or a bit crass?

shels4ever

donothoponpop wrote: »

Thanks for that Shels, and I just want to stress that my suggestion is just that, a suggestion (I've certainly no rights to decide on what happens to the name, or the singlet). If the BAC committee want to remain AAI-regged I'll fully support that too.

Thats most of the problem there isnt really a committee to speak of now, suggested an AGM ages ago but this never happened. So an election would be needed or just people to step up. not looking at anyone

donothoponpop

shels4ever wrote: »

not looking at anyone

I'm already Chief Executive IMRA Recruitment Officer;)

Seriously though, I'm too far geographically from Dublin to stand up (if AAI route is maintained, an officer really should be attending the monthly AAI meetings, and attending Dublin AAI races).

Woddle

shels4ever wrote: »

Thats most of the problem there isnt really a committee to speak of now, suggested an AGM ages ago but this never happened. So an election would be needed or just people to step up. not looking at anyone

Very fair and accurate comment.

From what I can see the formal side of the club is dead and buried. It was a great idea at the time but as people have stated already, you can still recieve alot of the benefits without ever joining. And this was our own fault for doing everything so publicly. The club as an informal entity can still do well and seems to be the way to go.
I think the club needs someone with a driving force and that was never me wich is another reason for where things went wrong. Only Vaggabond really stepped up (I think) on the private forum when help was asked for.

tHE vAGGABOND

If the club was to keep going as an 'informal' social club, who organised get togethers every so often and also after races [I'm hoping to meet a few of the folks and get very drunk after connemara for example], a club who maybe also hooked up for training runs for common goals [ie: D.C.M.].

We have singlets [I have only used mine for training runs, but for that its great tbh] and maybe a small token membership charge [maybe, dont know any overheads we may have?]

That would work IMHO - and I would still be willing to help run that.

In terms of a 'formal' running club, I went to the training session of another club at the weekend and really enjoyed it, and will be joining them next week.

donothoponpop

Woddle wrote: »

The club as an informal entity can still do well and seems to be the way to go.
I think the club needs someone with a driving force and that was never me wich is another reason for where things went wrong. Only Vaggabond really stepped up (I think) on the private forum when help was asked for.

If the club was to be an informal entity (a la IMRA), I'd be more than willing to help promote it here. I'd imagine that many of the current meet-and-trains, mentored threads, road relays, etc, could be a focus for bringing more runners under the BAC umbrella. The aim of this forum should be improvement (at all levels), and using the group knowledge of the forum as a "Boards AC" training center could be part of that improvement.

Running under the one vest will give a larger sense of community to the forum, the hardest job that I can see would be to get a vest order-er and distributer, but that can be done easily enough (pre-paid minimum order of 50 or 100?).

meathcountysec

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

In terms of a 'formal' running club, I went to the training session of another club at the weekend and really enjoyed it, and will be joining them next week.

If you have been a member of an AAI reg club within the last 3 years you will have to go through a transfer procedure in order to move to another club.

Seres

meathcountysec wrote: »

If you have been a member of an AAI reg club within the last 3 years you will have to go through a transfer procedure in order to move to another club.

has to go thru county boards and club boards before complete , bit long winded if you ask me , tryin to get mine sorted so i can sign up for Nat 10k in april

meathcountysec

Seres wrote: »

has to go thru county boards and club boards before complete , bit long winded if you ask me , tryin to get mine sorted so i can sign up for Nat 10k in april

A bit cumbersome, I agree. Particularly if there are a couple of county boards involved.

If your AAI membership has been paid for 2011 there is no impediment to your participating in the National 10K. Once you have your “year reg number” for 2011 you’re good to go. You would not be eligible to run for your new club within 30 days of the date of transfer, in any case.

Peckham

All Boards members - please see the Boards AC sub-forum for news.

gerard65

meathcountysec wrote: »

If you have been a member of an AAI reg club within the last 3 years you will have to go through a transfer procedure in order to move to another club.

Does this apply if the club no longer exists?

menoscemo

gerard65 wrote: »

Does this apply if the club no longer exists?

Peckham wrote: »

All Boards members - please see the Boards AC sub-forum for news.

donothoponpop

The forum needs to shout out a big "Thanks!" to Peckham, Woddle, and Shels, who did so much work behind the scenes to get Boards AC off the ground, and then get the AAI registration. Its always a pleasure to see the singlet in races, and there's been great cameraderie and friendships made through the club. If it wasn't for their AAI XC efforts, I would never have got up early and driven miles to a cold and muddy field in Dublin:)

BAC may not be AAI-regged any more, but well done to you three for taking it that far in the first place. Hopefully BAC will continue to be successful in other areas in future.

eliwallach

meathcountysec wrote: »

A bit cumbersome, I agree. Particularly if there are a couple of county boards involved.
You would not be eligible to run for your new club within 30 days of the date of transfer, in any case.

Tell me about it.
you'd swear I was Eamonn Coghlan.

iamjenko

So, um, has anything been decided here? Been away for a week so only reading all this now! Inquired about joining BAC back in Jan and would still be interested...

gerard65

iamjenko wrote: »

So, um, has anything been decided here? Been away for a week so only reading all this now! Inquired about joining BAC back in Jan and would still be interested...

Its been decided that Boards AC will not register as an Athletics Ireland club this year, but will continue as a Irish Mountain Running Ass. club (check out the IMRA thread) and will continue as a loose arrangement for non AI road relays (Cork marathon etc). Everyone is welcome to the 'meet and train' sessions (see threads).

meathcountysec

gerard65 wrote: »

Does this apply if the club no longer exists?

It's not a scenario I have ever come across to date. Usually clubs disappear due to lack of interest/commitment. It would be unusual for a club with members who were still active in the sport to disband.

Your best bet for advice would be to talk to Moira in AAI about it. If the club is only not affiliating for this year then I would imagine a formal transfer would be required.

The club should facilitate those of its members seeking to transfer to other clubs before it formally packs up and rides into the sunset (or runs across the mountainside in this case ;-)

You should make sure that the Dublin Registrar/County Board are told otherwise you may have to reimburse them for any Leinster affiliation fees paid on your behalf.

Peckham

As the club is not AAI affiliated, members do not need to transfer as per the usual process. If any Boards AC members want to join a new club, they simply do so as anyone else would walking off the street.

meathcountysec

Peckham wrote: »

As the club is not AAI affiliated, members do not need to transfer as per the usual process. If any Boards AC members want to join a new club, they simply do so as anyone else would walking off the street.

In this world of interfering officialdom it may not be that simple. You will be associated with a particular club on the AAI registration database. You can't appear twice there. Your record will have to reflect the change of club. AAI won't just transfer you over without some indication of the situation as regards your original club. It is not the same as someone walking in off the street to the new club.

shels4ever

meathcountysec wrote: »

In this world of interfering officialdom it may not be that simple. You will be associated with a particular club on the AAI registration database. You can't appear twice there. Your record will have to reflect the change of club. AAI won't just transfer you over without some indication of the situation as regards your original club. It is not the same as someone walking in off the street to the new club.

Just one suggestion, that maybe to ensure that club folds up with no problem for members, that everyoen should recieved a signed transfer form in the post? This would then leave it upto all members to fill out.

@peckham I can mail you the forms again if you need them?