Knocked off Bike by stoopid idiot

Hermy

leeroybrown wrote: »

The OP should have defended their road position better while showing reasonable courtesy to other road users.

This is getting ridiculous. How do you defend your road position against a tonne of automobile? The 'by the book' road position doesn't matter a damn if the driver of the car doesn't see you, doesn't care about you or doesn't have the common sense necessary to drive safely.

monument

Hermy wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. How do you defend your road position against a tonne of automobile? The 'by the book' road position doesn't matter a damn if the driver of the car doesn't see you, doesn't care about you or doesn't have the common sense necessary to drive safely.

Stay out away from the edge of the road. It's not ridiculous at all.

Yes, road positioning does matter. Just see all the posters supporting it if you don't believe the books which do the same.

It may sound counter-intuitive, but when you're hugging the kerb a driver is more likely to try to push by where there's not enough room. On the other hand, where there's not enough room to pass safely and you cycle away from the kerb the driver is highly unlikely to mow you down.

Increased visibility also comes with road positioning.

johnam

newmug wrote: »

In this case, the car was clearly wrong.

But..............

Why do cyclists never think of braking? You said the car braked and this upset your balance. Why weren't you in the process of braking the minute the car began to pass you out? This way the car would have gone past you quicker, and although its a pain in the hole, you wouldnt be black and blue now!

I find that, in general, cyclists seem to think they're invincible, and they have this sense of entitlement that they should be treated as an engine-propelled vehicle on the road. Thats all fine and well, but a tonne of steel doesn't care about your rights! And you cant cycle from the grave! Practicalities first lads, should's and should not's later.

What a load of Bull.... Cyclists are meant to be treated the same any other vehicle on the road. If you are driving in your car and someone overtakes you, do you hit the brakes? No! This car should not have overtaken if there wasn't enough space or time to do so. When over taking, the car should be in the opposite lane, not just squeezing past in the same lane as the cyclist.

I had a similar experience today without the fall. I had my 2 year old daughter in a front mounted seat, and a car squeezed past me me as I approached a roundabout, and then proceeded to mount the kerb as they tried to squeeze inside a car in the right hand lane. Needless to say, I hit the back window of the car a smack with my hand, before planting my feet on the ground to stop myself falling. The driver gave me a dumb look like I shouldn't have been on the road in the first place. Really wish that junction had Garda CCTV on it, as I would have gone straight to the local cop shop and reported it.

Cyclists have the same right to be on the road as any motorist, its just a pity motorist don't seem to see it that way. I think I will start recording number plates of stupid drivers and pass them on to the guards, a few gentle reminders on the rules of the road wouldn't go astray. Saying that, a lot of cyclist could also do with the same reminder. (overtaking on inside, jumping lights, cycling the wrong way down one way streets etc will eventually get you killed)

BostonB

Hermy wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. How do you defend your road position against a tonne of automobile? The 'by the book' road position doesn't matter a damn if the driver of the car doesn't see you, doesn't care about you or doesn't have the common sense necessary to drive safely.

If you think like that you'd never cycle at all.

tomasrojo

Primary position has the added advantage that if the motorist approaching from behind still tries to overtake stupidly, you have a lot of extra space on your left to steer into to avoid him. If you stay close to the kerb and the motorist passes you too closely, you have no room to manoeuvre.

austinbyrne21

Just looking for some opinions...

I'm a motorist and (try to be) a cyclist. When driving behind a cyclist I wait for a safe place to pass but I sometimes get the impression that the cyclist in question just wants me to hurry up and pass them, putting me under pressure. Now, I don't drive right behind them revving like a tool (like I've witnessed while cycling myself) but give them the same space I would a slow car in front of me.

Anyway, the opinions I'm after - are some cyclists just nervous to have any car behind them or are some cyclists just grumpy and want you out of their way quick-smart? As I said I'm often put under-pressure to just hurry up and overtake.

feck sake lads

lads have you ever cycled in france there the cars will not pass until they have a clear road no matter how long it takes.
here in ireland i can safely motorists would sooner drive across you than slow up .i can't for the life of me see why this is do they no realize they will kill or cripple us .hopefully the new government will pass a law that will jail these morons once and for all :mad:

tomasrojo

I've never been under the impression that anyone would drive through me rather than wait. They've sometimes passed uncomfortably close, but they weren't trying to drive through me.

The tricky bit I find with primary position is doing a right turn when traffic is moving just that bit faster than you can keep up with. When you take the right lane you can get some very erratic driving as the following car tries to overtake you. Slower moving traffic in the same situation is no problem.

07Lapierre

austinbyrne21 wrote: »

Just looking for some opinions...

I'm a motorist and (try to be) a cyclist. When driving behind a cyclist I wait for a safe place to pass but I sometimes get the impression that the cyclist in question just wants me to hurry up and pass them, putting me under pressure. Now, I don't drive right behind them revving like a tool (like I've witnessed while cycling myself) but give them the same space I would a slow car in front of me.

Anyway, the opinions I'm after - are some cyclists just nervous to have any car behind them or are some cyclists just grumpy and want you out of their way quick-smart? As I said I'm often put under-pressure to just hurry up and overtake.

How does a cyclist put you (the motorist) under pressure?

Gavin

austinbyrne21 wrote: »

Just looking for some opinions...

I'm a motorist and (try to be) a cyclist. When driving behind a cyclist I wait for a safe place to pass but I sometimes get the impression that the cyclist in question just wants me to hurry up and pass them, putting me under pressure. Now, I don't drive right behind them revving like a tool (like I've witnessed while cycling myself) but give them the same space I would a slow car in front of me.

Anyway, the opinions I'm after - are some cyclists just nervous to have any car behind them or are some cyclists just grumpy and want you out of their way quick-smart? As I said I'm often put under-pressure to just hurry up and overtake.

I know what you mean, but it's probably not worth thinking about really. There's only one choice and that's to wait until it's safe for you to overtake, doesn't really matter if the cyclist is uncomfortable or not.

austinbyrne21

austinbyrne21 wrote: »

Just looking for some opinions...

I'm a motorist and (try to be) a cyclist. When driving behind a cyclist I wait for a safe place to pass but I sometimes get the impression that the cyclist in question just wants me to hurry up and pass them, putting me under pressure. Now, I don't drive right behind them revving like a tool (like I've witnessed while cycling myself) but give them the same space I would a slow car in front of me.

Anyway, the opinions I'm after - are some cyclists just nervous to have any car behind them or are some cyclists just grumpy and want you out of their way quick-smart? As I said I'm often put under-pressure to just hurry up and overtake.

Overtake if there's space, don't if there's not. I don't know if your fears about cyclists being annoyed that you're not overtaking them are entirely justified, after all it's a bit difficult to guess what someone is thinking by looking at the back of their head!

However that said, if I'm out for a cycle I find it annoying if a motorist doesn't use a passing oppurtunity when it presents itself because:

A)They may be holding up a few cars behind them, whose drivers may not be as patient as they are, who, once the first car passes drive by in quick succession, each one passing closer than the last.

B)They suddenly decide they wan't to pass and do it in a silly place despite passing up a perfectly good opportunity to get by.

Note this refers to cycling on rural roads mostly. In urban areas it's not such an issue as you usually get to the next set of lights and traffic que pretty quick and leave them stuck in the traffic. I absolutley cannot understand people who pass in a furious manner when there's a red light with a que of traffic 50 metres up the road. The "hurry up and wait" mentality.

Cabaal

newmug wrote: »

Why weren't you in the process of braking the minute the car began to pass you out? This way the car would have gone past you quicker,

Do you do this when you drive because I know nobody that does and I'm bloody glad they don't.

If somebody is overtaking and they neither have the clearance or power to do so quickly or safely then they should wait, the motorist is 100% in the wrong here and your suggesting in some manner the cyclist is wrong in some manner.

The cyclist has as much right to the road as the motorist if the motorist wants to overtake they must obey the rules of the road as outlined above and in the rules of the road.

leeroybrown

Hermy wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. How do you defend your road position against a tonne of automobile? The 'by the book' road position doesn't matter a damn if the driver of the car doesn't see you, doesn't care about you or doesn't have the common sense necessary to drive safely.

Have you read the thread? The OP clearly stated that they deliberately took up a road position about 2" from the kerb and later stated that in future they'd maintain a wider normal road position to avoid the problem in future. If they'd originally taken up a more defensive road position the driver behind would have unlikely have squeezed them onto the kerb like they did. Some drivers will go for that stupid gap if they think it's there.

austinbyrne21

07Lapierre wrote: »

How does a cyclist put you (the motorist) under pressure?

Sorry, my bad. I don't mean the look of the back of a cyclists head. I mean that sometimes a cyclist will either:

1. Wave me on when it's not save for me to pass or;
2. Slide over to the kerb giving the impression he wants me to pass

or both of these options.

Don't get me wrong, I never pass them out because they just want me to, I will do it safely when I get the chance. Just wanted to know what's the opinions out there. Whether some cyclists are just slightly nervous or slightly grumpy.;)

Thanks for answering guys. Now back to road positioning talk with you's...:D

Edit: Sorry 07 Lapierre, quoted the wrong person.

BostonB

I've never had a cyclist do that. Perhaps you're driving closer than you think you are. Stay further back see if happens again. Maybe they are just nervous cyclists.

paulieb2006

They must have been all out today as I too had a close one. Not as bad as the OP but it was witnessed by a Guard coming in the other direction.
Lady pulls up along side me in Abbeyknockmoy this evening and just turns left into a housing estate, she never got in front of me at all and just swung left. I had to swing left with her, gave her a good stiff arm. She eventually stopped and looked at me as if to say "What the F**k are you doing there". She just mouthed Sorry and drove off.
Thing is there was a Guard coming against us and saw what happened, dont know if he was going to stop, but he did when I flagged him down. He asked me if I wanted to make a complaint but I just asked him to have a word with her as this kind of thing is happening much too often.
Had a similar incident last saturday on a club run with a bunch of Yanks in a hire car. Feel now like I should have done more about it with the Guard.
Was the original incident in Galway too?

Hermy

leeroybrown wrote: »

Have you read the thread? The OP clearly stated that they deliberately took up a road position about 2" from the kerb and later stated that in future they'd maintain a wider normal road position to avoid the problem in future. If they'd originally taken up a more defensive road position the driver behind would have unlikely have squeezed them onto the kerb like they did. Some drivers will go for that stupid gap if they think it's there.

I've reread it several times and I'm still struggling to understand how a cyclist defends there lane position when a passing motorist who's sole concern is avoiding oncoming traffic veers into said cyclists path.
When I'm cycling I'm always extremely cautious of motorists overtaking me as many of them seem to view me as less important than vehicular traffic. If a passing motorist does suddenly veer left defending my road position goes out the window and my only concern is crash avoidance.

cdaly_

Hermy wrote: »

I've reread it several times and I'm still struggling to understand how a cyclist defends there lane position when a passing motorist who's sole concern is avoiding oncoming traffic veers into said cyclists path.
When I'm cycling I'm always extremely cautious of motorists overtaking me as many of them seem to view me as less important than vehicular traffic. If a passing motorist does suddenly veer left defending my road position goes out the window and my only concern is crash avoidance.

Oh agreed but defending your position is about being in the right place so that they won't attempt a dangerous overtaking manouvre in the first place.

In the OP's case, being out in the middle of the lane approaching the left turn would require the veering left motorist to veer right first. I regularly do this at certain left turns to prevent the pass and turn left problem

tomasrojo

Hermy wrote: »

I'm always extremely cautious of motorists overtaking me as many of them seem to view me as less important than vehicular traffic.

I'm being picky here, but I'd prefer the term "motorised traffic", since a bicycle is classified as a vehicle here, as it is in most countries.

VanhireBoys

paulieb2006 wrote: »

Was the original incident in Galway too?

Aye it was... At the top of the Cappagh Road just after I had turned left after the roundabout..! Going for a spin tommorow morning to see how long I can hang on for before I get dropped...

leeroybrown

Hermy wrote: »

I've reread it several times and I'm still struggling to understand how a cyclist defends there lane position when a passing motorist who's sole concern is avoiding oncoming traffic veers into said cyclists path.

I think we're talking about two different things in that case. I completely agree that it's too late to defend your road position once the car behind is overtaking you. My point was that normally if you position yourself well on the road you get involved in a lot less of these incidents and you've got more space when they do.

Bruthal

VanhireBoys wrote: »

Guys
Just a small rant.. I was coming home after a training run of about 35 miles. I knew there was a car behind so I ride about 2" off the kerb.. This Nissan Primera (green with the LH back wheel trim missing) starts to overtake and an oncoming car approaches.. She cuts in on top of me and I am pinned between the kerb and car leaning in...... I try to gather the my balance again but the stoopid c**t brakes and I lose my balance...!

I end up on the road still in the pedals.. The stoopid c**t just drives on. A kindly group of lads come out and help me up again... Not a mark on the bike but I am black, blue and road rash

At least my bars scraped the LH rear door ...;)

Why do people use cyclists for target practice ?

Sounds like its probably another stupid driver like the ones that cant overtake a tractor thats fully in a layby without swerving into the far layby themselves.

Hermy

leeroybrown wrote: »

I think we're talking about two different things in that case. I completely agree that it's too late to defend your road position once the car behind is overtaking you. My point was that normally if you position yourself well on the road you get involved in a lot less of these incidents and you've got more space when they do.

Yeah, agree with you completely. Making your presence felt on the road is the best preventative measure but if the motorist is thick then the rules of the road go out the window.:(

You know when I posted here first yesterday I was fuming because I had just had to deal with a similar incident to the op. The only difference being that I was driving my seven seater taxi! Even my not insignificant presence on the road isn't enough to deter some motorists so what chance for a cyclist.

cdaly_

You were probably driving it like a bike...

cervelo62

Hi Fellow cyclist,

What is it with these motorist, all i hear them say is we pay road tax, and coz we cyclist dont what are we doing on the roads.
well i to have a car and i pay for road tax.
but unlike those ignorant motorist, who think they

cervelo62

Hi Guys
What is it woth these motorist, the igerant ****,
who do the think they are, how many times have i heard them say we pay road tax, its as though that gives them the right to OWN the road,
well for what its worth im a driving instructor and HAY !!! NEWS FLASH!!!
cyclist have as much as right as to do pedestrians.
so for all you motorist out there, take a driving test.
im avaibale for lessons :D

Hermy

You spelt ignorant incorrectly!:rolleyes:

spokeydokey

BostonB

and its motor tax not road tax...not that either makes a different. Its just a generic tax.

SubLuminal

Basically Op, like most of the others have said, you shouldn't really have been that close to the kerb in an ideal situation. The way I think of it is, "I'll decide when it's safe for you to overtake me." That doesn't mean I hog the road and judiciously let cars past one at a time, for the most part I cycle about a foot off the kerb and if i'm going past parked cars, I'll cycle just out of "door reach" - but when things are dangerous, I will take the middle of the lane to avoid precisely what just happened to you. If they've words about it, I'll explain what I'm doing and why, and if they want to get out and thump me i'm not adverse to giving them a thump back, as i'd rather get a thump from some weak fatty in a car than be run over, it's still less dangerous! But the point here is that you have to retain control because when you give it up, you're much more likely to end up on the tarmac. Basically be a benevolent dictator : Be kind and courteous as much as possible but when you're potentially in danger, boss things mercilessly.