My son might be asked to leave school

jm21

I have a 13 year old son who is diagnoised with ADHD and ODD, he had an SNA at primary school and resource hours, in sec he only has his resource hours. My problem with him at moment is though , in primary school he would have got into trouble and got a name for misbehaving hence he didn't have many friends, everyone knows him though because of his behaviour.
He is on medication , thru the years he would have had counselling, I'm waiting at the moment to see a cognitive behavioural therapist. I have grounded him, taken his phone, his xbox, stopped pocket money, you name it and I have done it as regards punishment.
Because he never really had any friends in primary school when he went to secondary he became the class clown and all of a sudden everyone was his friend and he was voted one of the funniest kids in school. To keep up with that title his antics have become worse and worse. He is constantly disruptive in class, rude and so far has been suspended twice. I work with the headmaster and the two of us have sat him down and told him that this cannot continue, the headmaster has said to me that if the behaviour continues that he will ask me to take my son out of school.
My son just hates school he finds the work really hard, he mistrusts the teachers, rightly or wrongly he feels that they just want him gone which is the impression I get too. There was an incident with a teaching inspector who called him an obnoxious bastard in front of the class which nothing has been done about.
I can understand the headmasters point of view, he has 900 other children to get thru the education system. But what am I supposed to do when my son just wont listen. I dont actually expect any answers, its just been great getting this out in the open, I cant talk to my family about any of this as they are so judgemental.:(:o

Wolfe Tone

The other childrens education will have suffered due to your sons behavior. He should be removed imo, if he is that disruptive.

With that said he is 13 so I think it is highly unlikely he will be expelled, having spoken to my old principal a number of times its not easy to expel someone that age, no matter what they do.

jm21

I wish I was as confident as that, I really think the headmaster is going to make an example of him.

Wolfe Tone

jm21 wrote: »

I wish I was as confident as that, I really think the headmaster is going to make an example of him.

We had complete scumbags in my school who used to curse at teachers out and throw chairs at them, the principal was unable to get rid of them until they were 16.

Morag

What other support is you and your son getting?
Is he still under the care of the child phyc who diagnosed him?
Can you go back and make another appointment?
Have you spoken to the area rescourse co ordinator as to why he doesn't have an SNA? Have you spoken to his Tutor and the schools special needs kids co ordinator? Keep pushing on this.

The headmaster can ask you to remove him and if you do it's your choice so don't fall for that.

chprt

Im a school teacher in secondary level

I would agree with wolfe tone there very very difficult to expel a kid when hes under 16. As far as I know in the odd instance that they have expelled kids they have t find a school to take them.

try get him into a very physical sport, namely boxing, if he takes to it, it imght take the energy out of him and relax him a bit, studies have proven this.

hope that helps

paddy

Piriz

Consider speaking with an occupational therapist about him. Occupational therapists are clinical therapists/health care professionals who deal with the whole spectrum of physical and mental health disabilities and disorders. They use a client based approach and evidence based practice..a custom occupational therapy program built to meet his needs and goals can achieve excellent results with ADHD clients.

Inquire into OT based services in your area. Private OT's may be a good option as referrals through the HSE can be very slow. Speak with your GP, however not all GP advocate for clinical therapies, instead they prescribe medication (which does not seem to be working..).

http://www.aoti.ie may be of assistance

chprt

chprt wrote: »

I would agree with wolfe tone there very very difficult to expel a kid when hes under 16. As far as I know in the odd instance that they have expelled kids they have t find a school to take them.

Yes, as education is mandatory until age 16 I'd believe there could be legal issues with expelling a child under 16, especially if another school place cannot be found for them afterwards.

mikemac

Agree with the others, he's under 16 so I doubt he'll be expelled.

Great suggestion on the boxing, get him to take it up.
Takes incredible work and discipline in that sport and hopefully he'll have a tough no nonsense coach who'll take no messing off him. Someone he'll respect greatly
Give him something to put his energy

Morag

When a kid has been diagnoised with ADHD and ODD it's not as straight foreward as get them into sport to wear them out.

http://www.kidsbehaviour.co.uk/OppositionalDefiantDisorderODD.html

jm21

Thanks for all the suggestions, I think the boxing might work, I know a few people that have punch bags and they take their frustrations out on that.
What also came to light is the fact that there is a young fella in our area who hates him and is now progressively working his way round some of the kids that my son would hang out with and is turning them against him. This is all being done an the xbox live. But he doesn't go to school with my son.
We had an app't with the service that diagnosed him yest and they are trying to make an app't with the headmaster to meet up and try and come to some kind of understanding.
Its been very hard to build up his self esteem as he was good at football but broke his ankle and since then he doesn't seem to be able to run as fast and is frightened to tackle now as well. He used to love fishing and we meet some lovely people doing that but now he says it's boring. He actually is a nice kid, he's very polite and helpful at home, I have no problems with him in the home. But like I said he's been labelled and we live in a small town where everyone knows him and the opinion is not good.
I'm defo going to try the boxing that might help him as a few kids in the last week or so want to fight him but he has said no and apologised for things he didn't do or say, so this might give him a bit of confidence as well as discipline.

Ayla

OP - I'm sure you're doing everything you can to help your son, and when there are medical issues it's really tough (and frustrating) for everyone involved. I don't have any *official* info, but I'd imagine the headmaster may be able to suspend your son as a warning, but I wouldn't think he/she would be able to completely & permanently expel him.

Have you considered homeschooling your son?

jm21

I have thought about home schooling but as well as getting an education, an important part of school is the social interaction, and as thats really hard for him, he needs to be in an environment where he will mix with his peers.

Ayla

OP - of course he needs social interaction, every child & adult does. But you have to ask if the social interaction he's getting at scool is benefitting him. You've mentioned fighting, being picked on...is that really good for him?

Home ed does not mean that your child is a social recluse, but instead can become very involved in other activities - boxing, for example. He could also do other things, not to mention the (ever increasing) community of home ed families.

Morag

jm21 wrote: »

I have thought about home schooling but as well as getting an education, an important part of school is the social interaction, and as thats really hard for him, he needs to be in an environment where he will mix with his peers.

I hear you, we've the same situation with our son who has ASD, it looked like he was starting to make new friends in the new school but all it take is the nasty power plays from some of the local kids who weren't even in his primary school to start turning the other kids against him.

We are luck he does have an SNA who when needs to acts as a buffer between him and some of the bullying, having her keep a watchful eye puts them off and she is able to check is stims and intercept his patterns of frustration so we haven't had a full melt down in school yet. The changing of classes keep him interested and he has managed to keep a hold of the anger and the tears until he comes home at lunch time, but that does mean that
I bear the brunt of it when he walks through the door.

He has done so well with the socail skills group he took part in and really really wants friends but only get on well with those who are not his age peer group and like you say some times a fresh start can be bloody impossible.

Trying to work on consideration and compassion with a kid who is so self focused is hard, hopefully the professional services will be able to help with that.

jm21

hi Sharrow, thanks for that, its very easy for me to get caught up in my sons needs that I forget that other parents out there are having a hard time too x

Morag

All we can do as parents is our best, but your not on your own
I couldn't find any communties for parents of special needs kids based here in Ireland but I did find on on live journal and sometimes you just need to vent and rant and have other parents understand.


http://preciouschild.contentquake.com/

Finding support and light at the end of the tunnel
Posted by preciouschild

July 29, 2009 | Leave a Comment

The hardest thing I have found as the parent of a child with special needs - is the feeling of being alone - of thinking people don’t understand.
Having a child with special needs can make you feel isolated, overwhelmed and exhausted. Sometimes you get so focused on the special need that you forget to notice the child - or even your other children. I find that sometimes I pay more attention to the things K-Oz does than K-Oz himself. I find also that sometimes I feel like my other children aren’t getting the attention they need and deserve because I’m focusing so much on what K-Oz needs.
And I always feel guilty about that.
Sharing my feelings of isolation, frustration, guilt and inadequacy helps me tremendously and I hope it helps other parents who are in the same boat.
The other day I got some wonderful encouragement from my cousin Beth. After reading one of my blog posts, she sent me a message. She told me about a friend of her son’s who has ADHD. She shared about watching him grow up, seeing his obsessions and compulsions and behavior issues. Now this young man is in his 20s and Beth said he is doing exceptionally well and living a good life.
That was exactly the encouragement I needed on that day. To know that there is hope that my son will someday live his own life and won’t need me to hold his hand. I don’t know if that will actually happen - K-Oz may always need help and supervision - but it helped me to know that there are other parents who have walked before me and survived.
That is why I must take this journey one step at a time - not focusing on what is down the road a ways off, but knowing in my heart that whatever does wait for me will continue to wait. And it will be okay - no matter what.

http://community.livejournal.com/special_parents/

byhookorbycrook

jm21 wrote: »

.. There was an incident with a teaching inspector who called him an obnoxious bastard in front of the class which nothing has been done about.

Good lord!?! I agree re boxing etc.Horse-riding has worked really well for children with ADHD and ODD, it makes them considerate of another being and helps them build a trusting relationship.
Has the school a NEPS psychologist?It's time to get them involved and to get all the parties together to work out a behaviour plan with him. Suspending a child means that they get time off and a "Bad name". I know of some secondaries where they do an internal suspension -the pupil is seperated from their own class and is given work to do in other classes.

spurious

jm21 wrote: »

There was an incident with a teaching inspector who called him an obnoxious bastard in front of the class which nothing has been done about.

Did the Principal make a formal complaint about that?
That's disgraceful.

Make sure the school do not try to squeeze your boy out. Everyone's resources have been cut, but if they were happy enough to take him, it is up to them to keep him. You will have a lot of trouble trying to get him in elsewhere, so make sure you do not take him out of the school yourself. They cannot 'force' him out.

byhookorbycrook

"Asking him to leave" is a way of not having to expel him.

cordub

While i have lots of sympathy for you poor parents having to cope with your problem children can I give you my side of the story from the side of a parent who has a ADHD child in her childs class. My 9 year old is in a class with a boy since junior infants ( will call him john) .My child has been terrified some days to go to school as a result ot what has happened in her class the previous day,This child seems to take over the whole class. We have never had the pleasure of being able to watch a nativity play without this child acting out , he constantly curses and roars abuse when he doesnt get his own way in class, he has hurt other kids phyisically so how fair is it on the rest of the class to allow him disrupt their education ??? Why should he allowed to stay in the room .I think if he cant behave he should be segregated for the good of the other 29 kids , to what benefit is it for him to stay in the room with all the rest , maybe if he were segregated he might learn as allowing him to mix with others clearly hasnt to our childrens detrement, I think schools have become so PC its ridiculous . as i have said i feel so sorry for the parents of john but I have to think of my child too.

Morag

cordub why don't you start your own thread rather then gate crashing this one.

Chuchoter

OP, maybe this is a silly suggestion but have you tried explaining to him why he really needs to be in school and how much it means to you? Maybe just having the chance to talk out all his frustration with the school will spur him on to try change his own behavior a little bit, in the interim until he gets the cognitive behavioral therapist.

Wolfe Tone

crayolastereo wrote: »

OP, maybe this is a silly suggestion but have you tried explaining to him why he really needs to be in school and how much it means to you? Maybe just having the chance to talk out all his frustration with the school will spur him on to try change his own behavior a little bit, in the interim until he gets the cognitive behavioral therapist.

Also try and explain that not only is he destroying his own education, but that of the people around him too.

mikemac

Are they asking him to leave so they don't have to expel him, you'll remove him instead?

As you say, the principal has over 900 students to manage. And he has to think of the other children in the class which is getting disrupted by this class clown

January

cordub wrote: »

While i have lots of sympathy for you poor parents having to cope with your problem children can I give you my side of the story from the side of a parent who has a ADHD child in her childs class. My 9 year old is in a class with a boy since junior infants ( will call him john) .My child has been terrified some days to go to school as a result ot what has happened in her class the previous day,This child seems to take over the whole class. We have never had the pleasure of being able to watch a nativity play without this child acting out , he constantly curses and roars abuse when he doesnt get his own way in class, he has hurt other kids phyisically so how fair is it on the rest of the class to allow him disrupt their education ??? Why should he allowed to stay in the room .I think if he cant behave he should be segregated for the good of the other 29 kids , to what benefit is it for him to stay in the room with all the rest , maybe if he were segregated he might learn as allowing him to mix with others clearly hasnt to our childrens detrement, I think schools have become so PC its ridiculous . as i have said i feel so sorry for the parents of john but I have to think of my child too.

Cordub, your last post was moved to Ranting & Raving because it was just that, a rant, same as this one. You're not adding anything helpful to this thread.

Any more unhelpful posting will result in infractions.

Morag

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

"Asking him to leave" is a way of not having to expel him.

Which is frankly cowardly and trying to wash his hands of the situation.
I would be taking to the resource co ordinator for the area and not letting the headmaster intimidate you into taking your son out of school.

There are kids who get up to a lot worse, from smoking drugs on school premises and not get expelled. You have to unfortunately fight for your son's education, which includes intolerance and ignorance from staff/teachers and other parents.

Anyone who is bitching about special needs kids being in main stream classes should take that up with the dept of education and thier TDs who decided this was the way to go and then under funded and then cut funding for this, rather then lashing out at parents who are doing their best and who are looking for help and support.

cordub

Apologies to anyone i have insulted or hurt in anyway by my previous stupid comments , you parents deserve a medal for the way you cope with your kids dont think I could do it being a parent is such a hard job these days !!

implausible

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

"Asking him to leave" is a way of not having to expel him.

Sharrow wrote: »

Which is frankly cowardly and trying to wash his hands of the situation.

To be fair, it isn't cowardly. The law is now so heavily balanced on the side of the disruptive students that school principals have no option but to take this approach. It is almost impossible to expel a student now. You need months and months of paperwork and even if you succeed, the student has the right of appeal firstly to the Board of Management and then, the Dept. of Education. The majority of the time, these appeals succeed, not due to the injustice of the expulsion, but due to lack of paperwork.

This is not aimed particularly at the OP, I'm just giving some info on how the system works. The same system applies to a student who has thrown a chair at a teacher.

Justask

Something I came across, dunno if it would interest you but here ya go

http://www.meetup.com/ADHDgroup/

best of luck with your son you are doing your best and thats all we can do as parents

carwash_2006

Years ago my brother was having a lot of trouble in school due to his dyslexia. The headmaster was talking about suspensions and possibly expulsion if things didn't change. My mother was tearing her hair out about the situation. One day at a meeting with teachers and principal my mother once again said, "but you have to give him a bit of a break with the work, what is the point in giving him punishment homework for not getting through all his homework because of his dyslexia?" The teachers response to this was "Is he not over that yet?" My mothers jaw dropped.

So she took matters into her own hands. She took my brother out of that school and got in a home tutor for a few months, she was advised if she sent him to another school at that stage he would still be on the same track as he was so uptight about schoolwork, which was what was causing him to act out. She found a school that would be sympathetic to his needs and when the tutor felt he was caught up in his understanding of certain things and a bit more relaxed they sent him there.

My brother never looked back. His schoolwork impoved hugely, but he also started making lots of friends and became popular and happy. The decision to take him away and give him a fresh start was the best thing ever for him. In a case like that it is not running away from problems, it is breaking a cycle. I reckon it would be worth considering anyway, if you could give your son other outlets and a fresh start somewhere where he doesn't have the reputation it might help to give him a new chance. Then again I would talk to the professionals that are helping you first and see what they think.

SlimCi

It seems to me that you have the ADHD under control with the medication. What is left seems to be attention seeking behaviour, trying to be Mr. Popular etc. I think your son could do with some sort of an adult mentor in the school. In my honest opinion, there is too much punishment going on and not enough positive encouragement. I know, because my child is in a similar position, that we get the best from him with encouragement and reward and punishment really makes him rebel even further.

How street savvy is your son? The reason I ask is because mine isn't at all street savvy and just doesn't see it when people are laughing AT him rather than WITH him etc. It took a few goes to explain to him that this was not positive, good attention. Hope this helps

CarinaKate

Where do you live? I found a good school in Dublin 9 for my son..similar problems. He has SNA & resource, teachers v good & supportive. Have you thought of moving school? especially as he's so young. My son started in this school without ANY of old primary friends & is v happy there. i can give you name of school if you're interested? Good luck

January

Thread is over two years old, please do not bump up old threads. OP has most likely found a solution by now.