A genuine appeal to voters in Cork South Central

thejuggler

If anyone in Cork South Central is considering giving Micheal Martin a preference on Friday I would ask them to ask themselves why? Is it because he is party leader? Because he has had a high media profile in the last month? Because he's one of our own?

Can I remind you that this politician has been in cabinet for the last 14 years and has voted for all the dubious decisions that Fianna Fail has inflicted on this country from nama to the bailout of anglo irish bank and bringing in the IMF to borrow money that you, your children and possibly your childrens children will spend your entire lives paying for through increased taxation and levies.

Do you wish to support these policies which are forcing an entire generation to emigrate by giving this candidate your vote?

Please think seriously before casting your vote this Friday. Don't vote for a certain candidate or party just because you or your family always have. This election really matters and your vote counts.

wexfordian01

Of course he is going to get elected. At least in my experience the average irish person is too ignorant to accept change or to do anything about it. I think fine gael will be the same old crap fianna fail were.

SeaFields

thejuggler wrote: »

Please think seriously before casting your vote this Friday. Don't vote for a certain candidate or party just because you or your family always have. This election really matters and your vote counts.

If this point could be drilled into people before they go into the ballot we would be in a much better place. Well said overall juggler.

Max001

I'm curious. If I read you right, you're suggesting who we ought not to vote for. Why not go the distance and also suggest who we ought to vote for instead

I'd sooner vote Sinn Fein than vote for Micheal Martin and there is no way I'm voting Sinn Fein. A load of ole folk will vote for Micheal Martin because one of their relations got a photo taken with him or some other silly arse reason, of course the brainwashed heads in the sand FFers will also vote for him. Also he will get some sympathy votes due to the tragedy that happened in his personal life last year.

Raskolnikov

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd sooner vote Sinn Fein than vote for Micheal Martin and there is no way I'm voting Sinn Fein. A load of ole folk will vote for Micheal Martin because one of their relations got a photo taken with him or some other silly arse reason, of course the brainwashed heads in the sand FFers will also vote for him. Also he will get some sympathy votes due to the tragedy that happened in his personal life last year.

He bought me a coke in the Dail bar on a school tour a long time ago

Ludo

Raskolnikov wrote: »

He bought me a coke in the Dail bar on a school tour a long time ago

You can be damn sure he expensed that.

gbee

as I did NOT give him a vote the last time. Had done previously but I saw a change so did no vote for him and naturally, IMO the man has got even more entrenched in the stale politicos that I won't give him a vote this time either.

two wheels good

I met my first canvassers today, canvassing for M. Martin. So I told them that I couldn't possible vote for Martin on the basis of the govt record.

Then later I regretted I not making a few more critical points. I know the big issue is "the economy, stupid" but what I really regret not confronting them with is the following:

The US ran rendition flights through Shannon transporting prisoners to torture centres in North Africa and the Middle East.
The British based legal charity Reprieve, defending Binyamin Mohamed, wrote to Martin and Cowen requesting information on two flights that landed in Shannon.
After a delay of nearly four months Martin replied admitting that the flights had landed and the crew had stopped over in Shannon but denied that any information on the crew's identities was available even though all passports had been inspected . Then he had the gall to refer Reprieve to the US corporation, Signature Flight Support who handles the flights
He did "reiterate the Irish Govt's complete opposition to extraordinary rendition"
The Phoenix. Dec 12 2008

I think a vote for Martin, or any FF politician, is rewarding failure. I know we need a competent opposition in the Dail and I think Martin is a consumate politician (if a bit belligerant at times) but I believe his loyalty will ultimately be to the Fianna Fail party and his own career.

sok2005

Is this for real? How condesending can you get!

Gimme a break. I want to give him 2 votes just because of this whole thread (and i have 2 votes due to a mix up in polling cards!):p

maglite

I'm going to say we lack a credible alternative. Not to say FF are good (far from it), but everyone I know is stuck with choosing the least displeasing option.

DO we really think the alternatives can do better?

gbee

maglite wrote: »

DO we really think the alternatives can do better?

No. But nobody could do WORSE. My 2 year old grandchild could have run this country into the ground, no bother at all.

Balmed Out

Where do some people get off.
Theres a politics forum you can talk about politics in. Im not sure its ethical to try and tell people there how to vote either though.

If anyone in Cork South Central is considering giving Micheal Martin a preference on Friday I would ask them to ask themselves why? Is it because he is party leader? Because he has had a high media profile in the last month? Because he's one of our own? do it because they prefer his policies then others. Or whatever other reason they choose to exercise THEIR vote.

maglite

gbee wrote: »

No. But nobody could do WORSE.

two wheels good

Balmed Out wrote: »

Theres a politics forum you can talk about politics in. Im not sure its ethical to try and tell people there how to vote either though.

I don't see the OP "telling" anyone. The election campaign is about persuasion. Maybe you should ask the mod to move it to politics

Balmed Out wrote: »

..... do it because they prefer his policies then others. Or whatever other reason they choose to exercise THEIR vote.

You seem to be acknowledging that people vote for politicians for reasons other than the quality of policies.

two wheels good

sok2005 wrote: »

Is this for real? How condesending can you get!

Gimme a break. I want to give him 2 votes just because of this whole thread (and i have 2 votes due to a mix up in polling cards!):p

Fell free to feel condescended (to).
Why does it seem unsurprising that a FF voter would be considering electoral fraud?

conan doyle

Of course people vote for politician for reasons other than politics. They vote them because they always did regardless of how they have performed. A lot of people out there will just go in tomorrow and vote the usual suspects in because it's what they always did. Some people vote on the basis the the devil you know is better that the devil you dont and some people believe it or not are afraid of change- although I dont know why- any body could do better than the shower we just had. As for Mr Martin, he'll struggle but the older people will be out to vote for him I'm sure as one of their own.

Raskolnikov

If I still voted in Cork, I wouldn't personally give him a preference, but I can see why others might. He's a party leader, is liked by constituents, has gotten lots of TV exposure and usually comes across very well on the doorsteps - he is going to saunter home imho.

conan doyle

I don't know about saunter but he will certainly get in. The word around is that his running mate however wont so maybe there is some justice in the world.

kcb

two wheels good wrote: »

I think a vote for Martin, or any FF politician, is rewarding failure.

That sums it up.

Bewildering that anyone could vote for FF after what they did to the country, and their general behaviour ripping us off in the past few years.

conan doyle

Bewildering as it might be wait till saturday for the result and without fail auld Michale Martin will have his seat, his salary and his pension back. Are we a nation of complete idiots or what.

conan doyle

conan doyle wrote: »

Are we a nation of complete idiots or what.

Those that vote for him

NuMarvel

kcb wrote: »

That sums it up.

Bewildering that anyone could vote for FF after what they did to the country, and their general behaviour ripping us off in the past few years.

I suppose there's a segment of the population that thinks what has happened to the country is despite Fianna Fáil, not because of them. I'm not one of those people, and I haven't met anyone of that opinion, but chances are there are some out there somewhere.

conan doyle

God I'm on rant today. Just met a colleague who is voting for him because - wait for it - he's one of our own, will do great things for Cork and best of all he is the new Jack Lynch. I got so mad I couldn't even speak just walked off and left her.

gbee

conan doyle wrote: »

and best of all he is the new Jack Lynch. I got so mad I couldn't even speak just walked off and left her.

Oh My Goooooooowd! You poor thing. And worse, she had no idea how manipulated she's been.

Let's hope she trips on the way to the polling station and has to spend the day in CUH waiting room instead.

stwome01

The most important thing is that each individual exercise their vote. If you're disilusioned then spoil your vote as a protest but definitely vote. It's what make a democracy so special. At least now if you are unpleased with the outgoing government you can vote them out of government. We are lucky to have this option. Alot of other country the people have no vote.

As to which party to vote for. Inform yourself of their policies (and details as not all policies are well thought through or well fleshed out). Remember in the present economic climate that if a party promise you something then it will have to take away with a different hand.

Personnally I am going to go against the trend and I am going to vote FF.
Here are my main reasons which might be a bit flawed.

1. I keep asking myself if the other parties were in power would things have turned out differently. The answer is probably but there is no evidence that it would have been any better. FF have make some colossal mistakes eg bank bailout but IMHO I think some of these decisions were made in a rush (they had to be to stop a run on the banks) on bad information from Senior Public Sector workers. My biggest criticism of FF is that they didn't shack these individuals. There should have been some major questions asked of the previous financial regulator as it should have been his job to protect us against the banks.

2. I think people are forgetting the good that has happened in the country over the 15years preceeding the downturn (3 years). Policies like low coperation tax, free 3rd level education lead to this growth. We also need to remember that the downturn have effected servely all western country and not just Ireland. WRT policy I think the SSIA was intended to protect against the rain day but it was our greed that blew these savings. So we are not entirely without blame ourselves.

3. I agree with right wing policies. That leaves FG and FF. Personnally while I think socialist policies do a great job protecting the most vunerable but in the long run it encourages laziness (why work when there is not a big impact by not).

4. While I think there are some strong individual in the FG front bench I don't feel any sense of confidence in Enda Kenny. He has avoided interviews (First leaders debat, Newstalk, Today FM etc). Is this to hide weaknesses or pure indifference to that demographic? Either way I don't think it's good.

5. I think for the good government it is also important to have a strong opposition. FG, labour etc were relatively anonymous while in the oposition. I hope that FF can do a better job and keep FG on their toes. I don't think I'd vote FF if I thought they had a realistic chance of getting into power.

I know there is a lot of anger so get out and vote.
We all have been effected by the downturn (I was made redundant for a while in 2008, My wife wages in the public sector have been greatly reduced, my wages in the private sector have been greatly reduced and we bought our house during the property bubble) but now is our chance to voice our opinions.

conan doyle

I agree totally with you that each person has the right to vote and to vote for who ever they want to.
I would also encourage all young people to vote even if they spoil it- just vote and think of all the people who do not have this right.

However I cannot see how any one could vote for a party that allowed this country to be brought to the brink.
They were part of the problem and were fully aware of what was about to happen.
When the axe fell the supported the corrupt banks and share holders with our money rather than let them sink or sort it out themselves. We the people now have to pay for their luxury life styles.

You are obviously more that happy and willing to pay this money and allow this corrupt regime to continue and that's your choice but for the majority of us this has to stop and stop now.

rymus

gbee wrote: »

No. But nobody could do WORSE.

In fairness, it's Irish politics. There's always going to be someone who can do it worse than the outgoing party.

stwome01

That's a fair response but I'm uninclined to believe that things are as black and white as
"They were part of the problem and were fully aware of what was about to happen.When the axe fell the supported the corrupt banks and share holders with our money rather than let them sink or sort it out themselves."

What would have happen if there was a run on the banks? All deposites would have been lost? Not a single business could have got money? We'll never know. I am incline to say burn the unsecured bond holders but we also can only guess what the consequences of this would be. Would other lenders stop lending to us? Do we know if any of our pension reserved fund is in Irish bonds. The likelyhood is that it is.

Yes they have made mistakes. We all do.

conan doyle

Couldn't agree more with you. Nobody could have made such a mess as this lot. Abraham Lincoln said - you can fool half of the people some of the time, some of the people half of the time but cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

conan doyle

stwome01 wrote: »

That's a fair response but I'm uninclined to believe that things are as black and white as
"They were part of the problem and were fully aware of what was about to happen.When the axe fell the supported the corrupt banks and share holders with our money rather than let them sink or sort it out themselves."

What would have happen if there was a run on the banks? All deposites would have been lost? Not a single business could have got money? We'll never know. I am incline to say burn the unsecured bond holders but we also can only guess what the consequences of this would be. Would other lenders stop lending to us? Do we know if any of our pension reserved fund is in Irish bonds. The likelyhood is that it is.

Yes they have made mistakes. We all do.

Yes they made mistakes after all they are only human but it's the under handed sly way way they have treated this country that gets to me. I agree we couldn't let the banks go under but the amount of money we the tax payer has to put into them will cripple us so at the very least there has to be a clear out of all top guys in these institutions.

raddo

Who to vote for so??
There is no way that I could bring myself to vote for some of the Fine Gael candidates.
Two of them are living off their family history and the other I feel would make an excellent councillor but not a TD.
Labours candidates are practically non existant both nationally and locally.
Independents, how much influence etc can any of them running really feel that they would have on an incoming government??
So that leaves FF, because of the OP lets assume we don't vote for Micheal Martin.
Also running for FF is Michael McGrath, a well educated, intelligent, young and forward thinking person. He seems to be getting lost in all the hype.
I will be voting for Michael McGrath as I feel he most suits my beliefs and ideas.
It is up to each individual person to decide who they wish to vote for but why should progressive thinking young candidates be outcast because of their party history!!

trebormurf

McGrath might be young & forward thinking but his association with FF will see him losing his seat while good ol Micheal will saunter back into the Dail despite being minister for education (pupil:teacher ratios about to increase, special needs funding cut etc) minister for health (HSE) minister for enterprise (FAS scandal) & being a senior member of the cabinet that agreed to the blanket bank guarantee. He only challenged Cowen when he realized his own seat as under threat. Now that he's leader, he's a shoe in to be elected again & he's good ol Micheal the next Jack Lynch etc. If for whatever reason you are crazy enough to vote FF, then maybe McGrath is the candidate to vote for but as I've said voting for FF is madness-North Central voter.

conan doyle

Oh, yes do vote for Mc Grath and Martin, lets give them another 14 years to wreck the country. You are entitled to your opinion but one things for sure i wont be voting for them my conscious wont allow me to be party to the further destruction of this country. I love it far too much for that!

Buceph

trebormurf wrote: »

McGrath might be young & forward thinking but his association with FF will see him losing his seat while good ol Micheal will saunter back into the Dail despite being minister for education (pupil:teacher ratios about to increase, special needs funding cut etc) minister for health (HSE) minister for enterprise (FAS scandal) & being a senior member of the cabinet that agreed to the blanket bank guarantee. He only challenged Cowen when he realized his own seat as under threat. Now that he's leader, he's a shoe in to be elected again & he's good ol Micheal the next Jack Lynch etc. If for whatever reason you are crazy enough to vote FF, then maybe McGrath is the candidate to vote for but as I've said voting for FF is madness-North Central voter.

One FF candidate is getting in in Cork South Central. I'd much prefer it to be McGrath than Martin. He has far less blood on his hands, actually did some good work on the committees he sat on, and has spoken well without handwaving all the FF problems away. If die-hard FF'ers are going to vote for them anyway, give your vote to the younger guy who has a chance of changing the party for the better.




As for me. Although I don't particularly like the FG candidates in CSC, I'll still be giving them my 1,2,3 as I think their party is best for the country.

conan doyle

Good for you at least you are thinking about party politics and looking for change. So glad to hear some people are thinking of the outcome for the country. I just cant understand how people would vote FF in again. It's like wearing shoes that cut your feet, give you pain and make your life miserable. When finally you get a chance to get new ones what do you do? CHOOSE TO LIVE WITH THE MISERY AND KEEP THE OLD ONE BECAUSE YOU ARE SCARED.

raddo

I will vote for McGrath as I feel he is the best candidate in the Cork South Central.
Why should I vote for inferior politicians just because of their party alligence?

Judes

Remember it's OUR COUNTRY!!! Look at the mess it's in. What do you think it will take to improve things.

Just because Mr. Martin is from Cork that isn't a reason to vote for him. What has he done for Cork in the past? What has he promised to do in the future? Does anyone actually believe it will happen???

People who have grown up in a political family, are interested in politics and put themselves forward - still have to get votes on their own merit.

Tomorrow is a hugely important day to us all - VOTE sensibly. I don't agree with spoiling votes I consider that cowardly. If you spoil a vote, or don't bother voting - then you really don't care about OUR COUNTRY!!! And some of our ancestors died for that right.

conan doyle

See your point but just remember one tiny detail he might be a good man I'm not saying he isnt but if he gets in he will toe the party line come what may. So in effect you are voting for a good man who will be the mouth piece for the worst government we ever had

two wheels good

raddo wrote: »

Why should I vote for inferior politicians just because of their party alligence?

Because:
- the "inferior" candidate will be voting for better policies at the national level
- because the "inferior" candidate has not been party to the mismanagement of the country finances and the cronyism that have been rife for the past decade and more.

There is no ideal choice of candidate. Before I vote I have to decide which compromise I'm prepared to make.

Stark

He's that fella with his face on the news. Of course I'll be voting for him.

conan doyle

Appreciate your point but for me my self imposed moratorium has begun but I will be watching with anticipation at the counts

two wheels good

stwome01 wrote: »

1. I keep asking myself if the other parties were in power would things have turned out differently. The answer is probably but there is no evidence that it would have been any better.

FF have make some colossal mistakes eg bank bailout but IMHO I think some of these decisions were made in a rush (they had to be to stop a run on the banks) on bad information from Senior Public Sector workers

FF refused to heed any warnings about the booming property market and failed to remove the developer tax breaks.
There was a particular arrogance about FF prior to the crisis. Remember B.Ahern and the "if you disagree go and commit suicide" comment, I can't remember who said "the boom just got boomier". FF were tight with the developers. B.Ahern telling Dunne "We go back a long way" As Fintan O'Toole describes in "A ship of Fools" (central to my political education for the Celtic Tiger years) there was a sense of invulnerability among FF and the developers and the banksters. Has anyone appeared in court yet?

This isn't the first time that FG had to step in to pick up the pieces after FF financial mismanagement, as I was reminded by a recent interview with Garret Fitzgerald.

This thread will sum it up so much better.

I particularly like this one:
21. In September 2006, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern accepted that he had appointed people who gave him money to State boards, but he insisted that he did not appoint them because they gave him money. He said he had appointed them because they were his friends.

raddo

Just as a follow up to the main thread.

Please vote!!
Doesn't matter who you vote for, just make sure you do.
It is your right as an Irish Citizen.

hurling_lad

So basically:

GENUINE APPEAL TO VOTERS:
Don't vote for candidate X because I don't want you to.


ffs.

babo9

raddo wrote: »

Just as a follow up to the main thread.

Please vote!!
Doesn't matter who you vote for, just make sure you do.
It is your right as an Irish Citizen.

And it's also their right not to vote if they don't want to!

What's ppls obsession with making sure people vote?
If you know sweet f**k all about politics and you go down and vote purely for the sake of voting, is it not as bad as not voting? (if not worse - at least you give ppl who give a toss the chance to have an impact if you don't vote).

Personally I know little to nothing about anything politics related and circumstances have dictated I have been very out of the loop in the goings on of the last 6 months. I will, however, be voting as I have made an attempt to educate myself recently so I can vote with some reason.
I do think ppl should make an attempt to educate themselves and vote but I don't see why someone who will not and has not made any attempt to educate themselves and doesn't care one way or the other should vote, what is essentially randomly, for the sake of voting!

raddo

I have no problem with people choosing not to vote.
But are they then entitled to voice their opinion on the government???

babo9

raddo wrote: »

I have no problem with people choosing not to vote.
But are they then entitled to voice their opinion on the government???

Entitled to do what they want, not necessarily be listened to though, tell um feck off because they didn't vote :P

But if they are the kind of people that will be paying enough attention to the goverment that they can give opinions, then they are the type of people who should vote for their own sakes, if they don't they're just shooting themselves in the foot!

Stark

Because they don't support any of the candidates on offer?

trebormurf

In some countries people are jailed for not voting.

minidazzler

I literally support none of the candidates on offer, and don't give a tupenny sh1te about parties economic policies because they won't make a difference, I cast my vote based on the lesser issues that would be all over the news if the country wasn't in the sh1tter. Went Labour for 1 & 2, then 3 Independants who I know little about, but seem alright from the look.

My mam voted MM, because she always does and then said to me "sure he was at the polling station, none of the others were" :rolleyes: I'm not sure if she realises there is more than one polling station, or she was trying to justify voting again for someone who has the strongest of ties with the most weak moralled party.

trebormurf wrote: »

In some countries people are jailed for not voting.

And in some countries you are fined for not voting, in some you have to pay a Poll tax to vote, and in some there is no vote. We aren't any of those countries though