Anyone else fully in favour of gay marriage but NOT adoption?

hatrickpatrick

Just wondering does anyone share my view that gay marriage should be 100% allowed but adoption is far more tricky and probably shouldn't?

Before you dismiss me as a bigot hear me out for a second. I have no doubt that a gay couple could easily raise a child just as well as a heterosexual couple. This isn't about gender roles or about ability to actually do the job.

It's more about the social consequences for the kids. The words "gay", "fag" etc are widely used as insults by kids (as, indeed, is anything different) up until probably 2nd or 3rd year. Can you imagine the torrent of abuse some kid could get if, through no fault of their own, they were adopted by gay parents? I mean accusing people of this is already used as a playground slur (I bet your dad likes men, hurr hurr hurr) etc.

it sucks that society hasn't progressed enough, but it hasn't. Until the day homosexuality is 100% taboo free I think this would be unfair to kids, as young children and teenagers are notorious for enforcing social taboos to a horifically strict standard among their peers. I genuinely feel it would be condemning a kid to a childhood of bullying and ultimately, resentment at their situation.

This however does not mean I'm anti-gay. But intolerance is sadly a part of our society and until this is no longer the case, I say the hapiness and wellbeing of the children must come before the happiness and rights of parents - as it should, indeed, in every single case involving a conflict of interest between parents and children.

Anyone agree/disagree?

common sense brigade

it sucks that society hasn't progressed enough

But if we dont allow gay people adopt children, then society will never progress .

hatrickpatrick

common sense brigade wrote: »

But if we dont allow gay people adopt children, then society will never progress .

Don't you think proper education from an early age that intolerance isn't ok should come first?

When we reach a situation that homosexuality is viewed as totally normal and not in the least bit a "bad" thing, then fine. But at the moment all I can see is that allowing gay adoption would condemn a bunch of kids to having incredibly sh!tty childhoods at the hands of their peers.

Dermo

The change has to start somewhere.
Kids will always be kids, do you support the law saying not to give kids the name "Bart" because it rhymes with fart?

edit: What about what the kids want? Would they prefer to have no parents and be taunted for that or have parents, be loved and be taunted for that?

Chuchoter

Kids get bullied over everything. Do you stop people with red hair having kids? Stop letting kids with glasses go to school? You can get picked on for being bad at spelling or maths. Do we lock them in the attic and hope for the best? If they are getting bullied the school should do something about it, like every other instance of bullying. In any case, I know a fair few children of gay parents, none of them were bullied any more than anyone else.

Kids getting bullied is not a valid reason to deprive them of a family. Children are not born homophobic, they only become so because they are taught that and probably never meet any gay people/children of gay people until they are much much older. If you make it normal to them they won't make fun of it.

ninty9er

Nope.

I'd be in favour of dismantling marriage as a legal institution and relegating it to it's proper religious place.

Therefore nobody, regardless of hetero/homosexual would be entitled to have a "marriage" legally recognised. They could still do it, but a civil register would be where the tax code, next of kin, legal relationship status would be determined.

After all, it is just a piece of paper, and a marriage is just a ceremony, the people are what make a family.

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument too. Adoption is only one of the ways whereby a homosexual couple can have kids. There is the divorce/widowed case, the case of surrogacy and in the case of lesbian couples the option of their own kids by IVF.

Channel 4 did a documentary a number of months back called "My Wierd and Wonderful Family" which showed that you can fit in. There were prejudices exposed, but that could be viewed as being a result of the campness of one of the partners.

Nobody would walk past me in the street and think I'm gay. People with prejudices seem to think that they can spot one a 100 paces. Honestly a straight guy is as likely to be camp as a gay person and I know plenty of people, who like me, would not be identifiable as gay going about their daily routine.

Kids are resilient if nothing else. As society becomes increasingly more politically correct (not necessarily a trend that I am endeared to) institutions such as schools will go out of their way to quash prejudice. Even compared to when I was in Leaving Cert 6 years ago, Ireland is a very different place socially. In another 6 years people will have progressed further.

hatrickpatrick

ninty9er wrote: »

Nope.

I'd be in favour of dismantling marriage as a legal institution and relegating it to it's proper religious place.

Therefore nobody, regardless of hetero/homosexual would be entitled to have a "marriage" legally recognised. They could still do it, but a civil register would be where the tax code, next of kin, legal relationship status would be determined.

After all, it is just a piece of paper, and a marriage is just a ceremony, the people are what make a family.

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument too. Adoption is only one of the ways whereby a homosexual couple can have kids. There is the divorce/widowed case, the case of surrogacy and in the case of lesbian couples the option of their own kids by IVF.

Channel 4 did a documentary a number of months back called "My Wierd and Wonderful Family" which showed that you can fit in. There were prejudices exposed, but that could be viewed as being a result of the campness of one of the partners.

Nobody would walk past me in the street and think I'm gay. People with prejudices seem to think that they can spot one a 100 paces. Honestly a straight guy is as likely to be camp as a gay person and I know plenty of people, who like me, would not be identifiable as gay going about their daily routine.

Kids are resilient if nothing else. As society becomes increasingly more politically correct (not necessarily a trend that I am endeared to) institutions such as schools will go out of their way to quash prejudice. Even compared to when I was in Leaving Cert 6 years ago, Ireland is a very different place socially. In another 6 years people will have progressed further.

I absolutely agree about dismantling the institution. I have always believed in doing this and the sooner the better.
Again, it's just this nagging feeling in my mind that you're putting kids in a position where they will feel different and left out in some way, without having any choice in the matter.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Its fine as long as one parent is straight acting.

Ok that's a joke but really I don't think the slagging would be as bad as people think. Kids end up in tears over all kinds of slagging I doubt it would be any worse for the children of a gay couple.

cavedave

hatrickpatrick

It's more about the social consequences for the kids. The words "gay", "fag" etc are widely used as insults by kids (as, indeed, is anything different) up until probably 2nd or 3rd year. Can you imagine the torrent of abuse some kid could get if, through no fault of their own, they were adopted by gay parents? I mean accusing people of this is already used as a playground slur (I bet your dad likes men, hurr hurr hurr) etc.

What would you do with lesbian couples who have children? Sperm is not exactly a precious resource. Sperm must be fairly easy for lesbian couples to get their turkey basters on. Would you take the child of a lesbian mother (and her partner who has been acting at least in loco parentis) away from them?

jimmycrackcorm

I don't have a problem with the a adoption bit, it's the redefinition of marriage that I object to. And that is for the same reason that I object to Americans saying happy Holidays instead of happy Christmas.

A lemon

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the a adoption bit, it's the redefinition of marriage that I object to. And that is for the same reason that I object to Americans saying happy Holidays instead of happy Christmas.

When women got the vote, they did not redefine voting.

common sense brigade

Don't you think proper education from an early age that intolerance isn't ok should come first?

Isint this already happening in the vast majority of Irish households? I for one am a mother and my husband and I are teaching our daughter that gay marriage is a great thing if people are happy and want it and in love etc. Same as hetro marriage. I would imagine most kids are told these things.

When we reach a situation that homosexuality is viewed as totally normal

Again i think homosexuality is viewed as normal. Ok it still has a bit of a stigma but no more than any stigma out there.

But at the moment all I can see is that allowing gay adoption would condemn a bunch of kids to having incredibly sh!tty childhoods at the hands of their peers.

I was raised my my two uncles (ok they werent gay) but no better parents role models could you find out there. Kids will always find a reason to bully other kids. The world will never be perfect.

Also lesbian couples can get pregnant because they are biologically able to, and no one stops them.Thank goodness.
It seems unfair to me to penalise Gay men from having a family through adoption. Well its more than unfair Its an insult to their human rights.

But intolerance is sadly a part of our society and until this is no longer the case,

This sadly will never happen. We will always have intolerance. It doesnt mean we should bow down to it. We should change things for the better.

E.T.

There are plenty of "normal" couples in this country who treat their children like dirt, neglect them, abuse them. Why should they have more rights to have children than a gay couple who are willing to treat their child well? Just because they can have children themselves doesn't make it right.

aDeener

common sense brigade wrote: »

But if we dont allow gay people adopt children, then society will never progress .

that is an extremely vague statement. progress to what exactly?

sollar

What would gay married couples call each other - husband and husband, wife and wife?

I agree with some form of legal union but not marriage. Marriage is an ancient tradition between husband and wife imo.

irishh_bob

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Just wondering does anyone share my view that gay marriage should be 100% allowed but adoption is far more tricky and probably shouldn't?

Before you dismiss me as a bigot hear me out for a second. I have no doubt that a gay couple could easily raise a child just as well as a heterosexual couple. This isn't about gender roles or about ability to actually do the job.

It's more about the social consequences for the kids. The words "gay", "fag" etc are widely used as insults by kids (as, indeed, is anything different) up until probably 2nd or 3rd year. Can you imagine the torrent of abuse some kid could get if, through no fault of their own, they were adopted by gay parents? I mean accusing people of this is already used as a playground slur (I bet your dad likes men, hurr hurr hurr) etc.

it sucks that society hasn't progressed enough, but it hasn't. Until the day homosexuality is 100% taboo free I think this would be unfair to kids, as young children and teenagers are notorious for enforcing social taboos to a horifically strict standard among their peers. I genuinely feel it would be condemning a kid to a childhood of bullying and ultimately, resentment at their situation.

This however does not mean I'm anti-gay. But intolerance is sadly a part of our society and until this is no longer the case, I say the hapiness and wellbeing of the children must come before the happiness and rights of parents - as it should, indeed, in every single case involving a conflict of interest between parents and children.

Anyone agree/disagree?

yes , id be ok with gay marriage but completley opposed to gay couples being allowed to adopt

jimmycrackcorm

A lemon wrote: »

When women got the vote, they did not redefine voting.

There's a significant difference between getting to vote and being able to marry.
The day after you marry makes things no different from the day before; after all, civil partnership gives all the rights and privileges so what difference does it make?

jimmycrackcorm

crayolastereo wrote: »

Kids get bullied over everything.

+1. Kids will be fine as long as they have loving, supportive and protective parents regardless of which sex they may be.

common sense brigade

that is an extremely vague statement. progress to what exactly?

It isint vague , you just lack the ability to grasp it

Nodin

sollar wrote: »

What would gay married couples call each other - husband and husband, wife and wife?

I agree with some form of legal union but not marriage. Marriage is an ancient tradition between husband and wife imo.

Marriage as a sacrament dates only to the 1500's, as something the state takes an interest in, to the 1700's. Its often been between man and wives.....

Beruthiel

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

it sucks that society hasn't progressed enough, but it hasn't. Until the day homosexuality is 100% taboo free I think this would be unfair to kids, as young children and teenagers are notorious for enforcing social taboos to a horifically strict standard among their peers. I genuinely feel it would be condemning a kid to a childhood of bullying and ultimately, resentment at their situation.

If people like Martin Luther King or Malcolm X had not helped to lead the black population of America to continually push for their human rights, blacks in that country would still be sitting back waiting for change.
Nelson Mandela gave up most of his life to his cause.
Suffragettes worked for women's rights.
Harvey Milk went into politics to further the rights of homosexuals.

Change has never, ever come by sitting back and waiting for it.
There have always been those few brave individuals who have pushed their necks out, somethings to the detriment of themselves just so they could drag the rest of humanity on a bit.

The LGTB Community have every right to push for this, and perhaps, drag the rest of us along with regards to being more open minded towards our fellow citizens.
That can only be a good thing.

barrackali

I said this in another thread, I'm totally in favour of Gay Marriage....but vehemently opposed to any notion of adoption.

common sense brigade

....but vehemently opposed to any notion of adoption

wow Pat yourself on the back. sure let the Gays get married but keep control on them so they cannot have full family life with children. Lets give them so much 'leeway' then highly insult them by telling them they would be bad role models/parents. There will always be bad parents in every walk of life gay straight bi etc. Last time i checked Gay people pay their taxes here like everyone else. They contribute to our society. and deserve the same rights that we all have. Anyone who thinks anything different well there is a word for you....Bigot

Beruthiel

barrackali wrote: »

I said this in another thread, I'm totally in favour of Gay Marriage....but vehemently opposed to any notion of adoption.

For me, that's no different than saying the following:

I'm totally in favour of mixed/black people marrying ....but vehemently opposed to any notion of adoption.

barrackali

Beruthiel wrote: »

For me, that's no different than saying the following:

I'm totally in favour of mixed/black people marrying ....but vehemently opposed to any notion of adoption.

Put it to a referendum, this proposal would be soundly defeated. Then you guys can call everybody a "bigot".

MajorMax

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Just wondering does anyone share my view that gay marriage should be 100% allowed but adoption is far more tricky and probably shouldn't?

Before you dismiss me as a bigot hear me out for a second. I have no doubt that a gay couple could easily raise a child just as well as a heterosexual couple. This isn't about gender roles or about ability to actually do the job.

It's more about the social consequences for the kids. The words "gay", "fag" etc are widely used as insults by kids (as, indeed, is anything different) up until probably 2nd or 3rd year. Can you imagine the torrent of abuse some kid could get if, through no fault of their own, they were adopted by gay parents? I mean accusing people of this is already used as a playground slur (I bet your dad likes men, hurr hurr hurr) etc.

it sucks that society hasn't progressed enough, but it hasn't. Until the day homosexuality is 100% taboo free I think this would be unfair to kids, as young children and teenagers are notorious for enforcing social taboos to a horifically strict standard among their peers. I genuinely feel it would be condemning a kid to a childhood of bullying and ultimately, resentment at their situation.

This however does not mean I'm anti-gay. But intolerance is sadly a part of our society and until this is no longer the case, I say the hapiness and wellbeing of the children must come before the happiness and rights of parents - as it should, indeed, in every single case involving a conflict of interest between parents and children.

Anyone agree/disagree?

You are making too many assumptions. There is no valid reason based on a person's sexuality that they wouldn't make a good parent and provide a loving and supportive home.

common sense brigade

Put it to a referendum, this proposal would be soundly defeated. Then you guys can call everybody a "bigot".

If there was a referendum and the outcome was gay people cannot adopt . then i would say the voters were bigots. there is no other word for them. It would be another shameful day for Ireland.

cavedave

barrackali

I said this in another thread, I'm totally in favour of Gay Marriage....but vehemently opposed to any notion of adoption.

Why are you opposed? I am not accusing you of anything. I genuinely want to read your reasoning on this.

common sense brigade

Why are you opposed? I am not accusing you of anything. I genuinely want to read your reasoning on this.

Me too x 1.
And the children might get bullied argument just doesnt cut it. some children will always bully other children.

cursai

Marriage is for men and women. If gay people want to get married....fine...whatever! Have gay friends, all the best to them. But bringing kids into the equation is wrong. A child needs a father and mother ). Both sides of the sexual equation(although sometimes this can be inadequate its still natural, a cow doesn't rare a lamb). Its just not natural, i feel that in every bit of marrow of my bones like an instinct. And no its not fear or prejudice thats motivating me even sub consciously.
Next thing we'll be having transgender people looking for adoption rights!!! Pointless and childish!

common sense brigade

A child needs a father and mother

How many children in Ireland only have one parent! I personally had no mother. Just my two uncles. And i had a wonderful childhood.

And no its not fear or prejudice thats motivating me even sub consciously.

I wouldnt say your afraid, i would just say your the average closeminded Irish Bigot

cursai

common sense brigade wrote: »

How many children in Ireland only have one parent! I personally had no mother. Just my two uncles. And i had a wonderful childhood. I wouldnt say your afraid, i would just say your the average closeminded Irish Bigot

Its the most desirable and natural way for a child to have both parents around. i never said no other way works.
I'm the bigot. your the only making the judgements on me! Please don't do anymore advocating with your bad attitude. Your not helping an already discriminated section of society.

cavedave

cursai

But bringing kids into the equation is wrong. A child needs a father and mother ). Both sides of the sexual equation(although sometimes this can be inadequate its still natural, a cow doesn't rare a lamb). Its just not natural, i feel that in every bit of marrow of my bones like an instinct. And no its not fear or prejudice thats motivating me even sub consciously.
Next thing we'll be having transgender people looking for adoption rights!!! Pointless and childish!

What would you do with homosexual couples who have children not through adoption? For example a lesbian couple who get sperm through a one night stand or a gay couple who look after the child of one of their siblings. It does happen where a woman feels unable to rear a child well and decides her brother would be better at taking care of the child.

Would you interfer with the private family decisions of people who happen to be homosexual? Or is your issue just with public (state) intervention with the family unit through adoption.

common sense brigade

your the only making the judgements on me

I am making a judgement on you based on your opinion on Gay people having no rights to adoption. An opinion which is bigoted and offensive. You posted your opinion in a public forum and are open to judgements.

i never said no other way works.

This is exactly what you are saying! if you are in favour of denying gay people the right to go down the route of adoption

cursai

cavedave wrote: »

What would you do with homosexual couples who have children not through adoption? For example a lesbian couple who get sperm through a one night stand or a gay couple who look after the child of one of their siblings. It does happen where a woman feels unable to rear a child well and decides her brother would be better at taking care of the child.

Would you interfer with the private family decisions of people who happen to be homosexual? Or is your issue just with public (state) intervention with the family unit through adoption.

Thats fine imo. But lets not advocate unorthodox parenting!

Zombrex

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Just wondering does anyone share my view that gay marriage should be 100% allowed but adoption is far more tricky and probably shouldn't?

Before you dismiss me as a bigot hear me out for a second. I have no doubt that a gay couple could easily raise a child just as well as a heterosexual couple. This isn't about gender roles or about ability to actually do the job.

It's more about the social consequences for the kids. The words "gay", "fag" etc are widely used as insults by kids (as, indeed, is anything different) up until probably 2nd or 3rd year. Can you imagine the torrent of abuse some kid could get if, through no fault of their own, they were adopted by gay parents? I mean accusing people of this is already used as a playground slur (I bet your dad likes men, hurr hurr hurr) etc.

it sucks that society hasn't progressed enough, but it hasn't. Until the day homosexuality is 100% taboo free I think this would be unfair to kids, as young children and teenagers are notorious for enforcing social taboos to a horifically strict standard among their peers. I genuinely feel it would be condemning a kid to a childhood of bullying and ultimately, resentment at their situation.

This however does not mean I'm anti-gay. But intolerance is sadly a part of our society and until this is no longer the case, I say the hapiness and wellbeing of the children must come before the happiness and rights of parents - as it should, indeed, in every single case involving a conflict of interest between parents and children.

Anyone agree/disagree?

I used to be, but I have since changed my mind.

I think with adoption the number 1 priority must be the well being of the child, and a gay couple don't have the right to a child just because they want one.

But I changed my mind when I read about the research from America, where gay couples raising children has been going on for a while. There does seem to be very little evidence that children raised by a gay couple are more likely to suffer any increase in problems. What I mean by that is that everyone has problems, but being raised by a gay couple doesn't seem to dramatically increase the chances of problems.

I personally think it comes down to the people the parents are rather than their sexual orientation. Thankfully in Ireland we have a pretty rigorous adoption system, it isn't like America where anyone can get a baby. You have to be vetted and while that system isn't perfect it does at least attempt to make sure that you are emotionally and mentally up to an adoption.

cursai

common sense brigade wrote: »

I am making a judgement on you based on your opinion on Gay people having no rights to adoption. An opinion which is bigoted and offensive. You posted your opinion in a public forum and are open to judgements. This is exactly what you are saying! if you are in favour of denying gay people the right to go down the route of adoption

Exactly. I'm not in favour of advocating or legalising unorthodox parenting.

Zombrex

common sense brigade wrote: »

I am making a judgement on you based on your opinion on Gay people having no rights to adoption.

I'm not opposed to gay adoption, but I would point out that adopting a child is not a right.

I don't like this attitude some what common in society (and not helped by America and Hollywood) that adoption is a process if to give child-less couples a baby, rather than what it actually is, a process to find suitable parents for a child. There are plenty of heterosexual parents who are not suitable to adopt.

The only right on play here is the right of child to be raised in a loving protective family.

Memnoch

cursai wrote: »

Exactly. I'm not in favour of advocating or legalising unorthodox parenting.

So do you believe that single parents should have their children taken away and not be allowed to raise them?

Since a child needs both a mother and a father (according to you) to be brought up correctly.

How is single parents raising a child any different to gay parents doing this? Except they now have two parents and probably a better lifestyle/income/emotional support.

cavedave

cursai

Thats fine imo. But lets not advocate unorthodox parenting!

There is an interesting piece here about the difference in attitudes to gay marriage and gay adoption in Sweden and America

in the US marriage is a highly public matter, and the family a sacred institution, children are by and large seen as a kind of private property, or something to which every adult individual has a right. In Sweden, on the other hand, the family is a private matter, while it is the child who is the public matter.

Most Irish people seem to see the family as a private matter. If two people want to form a family good look to them. The commentators here seem to view children as a public matter.

The issue seems to come down to what you regard as being between private individuals and what you feel you have the right/responsibility to get involved in.

How do those here in favour of (and those against) gay adoption and marriage feel about homosexual men not being allowed to donate blood?

Squirm

I think that children are not bullied because of their deficiencies but rather, that it is the bully with the problem. And the bully will always find somebody to pick on.

A lot of non-national children in the school system experience racism. Should non-nationals be asked to stop having children (and home school?), until the day when Irish society is 100% culturally and socially equal?

It is human nature to fear the unknown and some people are too close-minded and self-absorbed to overcome this fear. Even if homosexuality became completely acceptable in society to everyone (and I don't believe this day will come for many, many decades), there will unfortunately, in my opinion, always be some minority group that is treated with the same disdain, disgust and ignorance.

I believe that with one, two or twenty positive, supportive, loving role models, a child can reach their full potential and establish a healthy self esteem and self-confidence. It is this self-esteem that will allow them to prosper, even in the face of prejudice.

Bullying needs to be addressed rather than asking gay people to change their lifestyles and make such a monumental sacrifice.

Having a child, for many people, is the biggest, most influential, most rewarding and most defining aspect of their lives. We are programmed to procreate. Accepting that one is homosexual and may have to sacrifice child bearing is a devestated and deeply depressing issue for many gay people. And in this day and age there is no good reason for the suffering to continue.

Also, why wouldn't transgender people ask for the same adoption rights?????
A transgender female or male living with an opposite sex individual is no more likely to raise eyebrows or attract bullying than any ordinary two parent family.

If my daughter is bullied because of her looks, I will not be considering getting my tubes tied to prevent future children succumbing to the same fate.

The name "Bart" though should be outlawed...

Beruthiel

cursai wrote: »

But lets not advocate unorthodox parenting!

Because that never happens.
In my own immediate family, four single mothers due to relationships breaking down. I'm pretty sure this is not unusual. Through out the ages, there have been as much unorthodox parenting as there has been what you consider 'normal'.
Thinking anything else is looking at the world through rose tinted glasses instead of what it is really like and if there are children out there in the world with no parent at all, damn straight I'd be happy for a gay couple to give them a loving home.

Squirm

Wicknight wrote: »

I'm not opposed to gay adoption, but I would point out that adopting a child is not a right.

I don't like this attitude some what common in society (and not helped by America and Hollywood) that adoption is a process if to give child-less couples a baby, rather than what it actually is, a process to find suitable parents for a child. There are plenty of heterosexual parents who are not suitable to adopt.

The only right on play here is the right of child to be raised in a loving protective family.

The Irish adoptive system is very much about finding suitable parents for children, rather than the other way around. Although the general public may not see this or may have their own opinions on adoption, it does not influence the system or how it is run. Let people think adoption is about finding babies for childless parents... those looking to adopt will be quickly informed that this is not the case. The child's welfare is paramount in the adoption process and that is what is crucial.

Squirm

I think the day where a man and woman falls in love, gets marries, have children and remain married is long gone.
What constitutes unorthodox?
It is too subjective a statement to make.

28064212

The statement "anyone fully in favour of gay marriage but NOT adoption" is an oxymoron. Fully in favour means granting all the rights, not some of them.

Couple of points that I've never seen addressed:

1. Can anyone give me a reason why gay marriage should be illegal, but infertile straight marriages should be legal?
2. Can anyone give me a reason why kids of gay couples will be bullied, but kids of black couples won't?
3. Can anyone give me a reason why a gay couple should not be allowed adopt, but an infertile black couple should be?
4. Can anyone give me a reason why single people should be allowed adopt, but a gay couple can't?

Answers on a postcard please. And it's not a valid answer if it's covered in one of the other points (e.g. saying a black child has a mother and a father isn't applicable since it doesn't address point 4)

cavedave

28064212
The statement "anyone fully in favour of gay marriage but NOT adoption" is an oxymoron. Fully in favour means granting all the rights, not some of them.

Being married does not give you the right to adopt. It is not even a requirement according to here

Under the adoption legislation, it is possible for a single person to adopt if the Adoption Authority considers it desirable and it must regard the welfare of the child as its first and paramount consideration. This means that if you are living with a same-sex or opposite-sex partner, you may apply to the Authority to adopt a child in your own right, intending to raise the child with your partner.

This implies we already allow homosexuals to adopt children. So the change people are arguing for is now roughly "two homosexuals should be allowed adopt rather than one" which seems like a fairly small shift in the current rules.

Lefticus Loonaticus

cursai wrote: »

Its the most desirable and natural way for a child to have both parents around.

If you dont mind, people will raise their children any way they see fit and how dare anyone ever try to give opinions otherwise.

It is not the most natural and desirable way for a child to be brought up with a parent of either sex - it is just the best optical way for the social conservatives because they dont like their scenery being interupted. This is the only reason why gay people cannot adopt and it is a lame and shallow reason that has zero standing ethically.

Gay people have penis and vagina just like everyone else, therefore they have children, full stop. As a hetrosexual guy, I do think it would be a bit odd to see a family unit with two fathers etc. But, that is a family unit, and a family unit will not ever be dictated or legislated for, it will just be.

It would be great if this was just legalized and got out of the way, there is no benefit to anyone to have this drawn out in a long demented debate when we all know what the end outcome will be.

Enough of the stalling of human evolution ffs.

cavedave

Lefticus Loonaticus

Its the most desirable and natural way for a child to have both parents around.
If you dont mind, people will raise their children any way they see fit and how dare anyone ever try to give opinions otherwise.

Really? If i keep my child under the stairs and feed them on fish heads you don't think the state has a right to stop me doing that?

Bannasidhe

Gay people can and do adopt children in Ireland - BUT they must do this as an individual. They are not allowed to adopt as a couple. This creates a situation where a child is denied adoption by a stable couple - who may have entered a Civil partnership - and is restricted to having only one legal parent. So adoption by Gay people already occurs - but they are forced into legally becoming single parents and the child is effectively denied two parents. It is a ridiculously anachronistic piece of legislative discrimination.

Bannasidhe

cavedave wrote: »

Really? If i keep my child under the stairs and feed them on fish heads you don't think the state has a right to stop me doing that?

That would be child abuse. Are you suggesting having Gay parents is tantamount to child abuse?

28064212

cavedave wrote: »

Being married does not give you the right to adopt. It is not even a requirement according to here

Marriage gives you the right to adopt as a couple. Gay people do not have that right