UFC reserves dates in Dublin, London Manchester

MrStuffins

1? What will that do?

In London alone there is the Royal Albert Hall, The Olympia, Earl's Court, Earl's Court 2, Wembley Arena........... all off the top of my head.

Because I want to

scudzilla

Forest Master wrote: »

List the possible venues in the UK that the UFC could run a show in then.

Just off the top of my head

Manchester MEN Arena
Liverpool Echo Arena
London O2
Dublin O2
Belfast Odyssey
Newcastle Metro Arena
Cardiff Arena
Nottingham Arena
Bournemouth BICC
Sheffield Arena
Glasgow SECC
Braehead Arena
London Albert Hall
London Wembley Arena
London Earls Court
Birmingham Arena
Birmingham NEC


Sure there's plenty more but that should shoot your post down quick enough

The Bored One

Anyone any details on how much the time difference messes with their PPV sales when the UFC do shows abroad? Just curious cause its likely a factor.

scudzilla

The Bored One wrote: »

Anyone any details on how much the time difference messes with their PPV sales when the UFC do shows abroad? Just curious cause its likely a factor.

i know where you're coming from but that's not really the point, the first card they had here for a few years was 70, followed by 72,75,80,85,90,93,99 & 105, they knew about the time difference but still promised us events.

They can't really turn round now and blame the time difference can they?

kainer2

MrStuffins wrote: »

1? What will that do?

In London alone there is the Royal Albert Hall, The Olympia, Earl's Court, Earl's Court 2, Wembley Arena........... all off the top of my head.

Because I want to

Royal Albert Hall - Capacity around 4000-5000 (Too small and doesn't want MMA events there)

Olympia, Earls Court - Aren't really suitable venues as the seats will have to be brought in from elsewhere and have horrendously busy schedules as they are primarily exhibition centres. Cage Rage did a show at Earls Court and everyone associated with it hated it.

Wembley Arena - With the cage is probably less than 10,000 = too small and it's not THAT great a venue

If you are gonna go to London you use the o2

scudzilla wrote: »

Just off the top of my head

Manchester MEN Arena
Liverpool Echo Arena
London O2
Dublin O2
Belfast Odyssey
Newcastle Metro Arena
Cardiff Arena
Nottingham Arena
Bournemouth BICC
Sheffield Arena
Glasgow SECC
Braehead Arena
London Albert Hall
London Wembley Arena
London Earls Court
Birmingham Arena
Birmingham NEC


Sure there's plenty more but that should shoot your post down quick enough

Best Venues

Manchester MEN Arena and London O2 are miles ahead (18-20000)

• Has 1 or more big international airports, major cities, huge local support

Then you have

Dublin O2 - 14,000
Belfast Odyssey 11-15,000


Then possibles


Birmingham Arena - You mean the NIA? - UFC have used it, and again it's around 9-10,000 (in fact the UFC drew 9500 people there)

Birmingham NEC (Do you mean the LG Arena) - 16,000 seats - But is apparently very busy - connected to the NEC centre

Nottingham Arena - 10,000 Capacity - Big MMA following and home of Dan Hardy. Again does not have a major international airport but close to Midlands

Newcastle Metro Arena - 11,000 seater. The UFC drew just over 8000 people for UFC 80. Again it's not a major International hub. Most US fighter who have to travel in from another major city.

No-No's

Cardiff Arena - 5000 seater capacity

Bournemouth BICC - You are joking right, Miles away from anywhere and 6500 seater

Sheffield Arena - Capacity 13,500 - No major airport nearby, not a hotbed of MMA by any means.

Glasgow SECC - From Wiki - "It is probably best known for hosting concerts, with concerts taking place every other night in Hall 4 (seating 12,500) and Hall 3 (fully seated 4,232, seated/standing 4,656 and 5,852 for all standing)."

• How many seats will they lose with a UFC set-up include Cage, Crew, logistics ?

Braehead Arena - Holds around 5200 people

Forest Master

scudzilla wrote: »

Sure there's plenty more but that should shoot your post down quick enough

See kainer2's post above. That was my point. All of the ones you listed are either busy on the dates UFC could run them (as UFC claimed) or too small for break-even.

DrPhilG wrote: »

one of the fellas from Fight Club who responded to my facebook post is friends with a guy in the industry and he told his friend what MZ was saying. His friend replied that MZ is a complete bluffer

LOL - yeah, that's definitely not hearsay.

DrPhilG wrote: »

Now he's saying that the reason for the lack of events is the difficulty of getting venues, lies.

I love how your hearsay then becomes fact a few posts later.

My cousin's boyfriend has a mate who works at loads of the huge UK arenas and he says MZ is telling the truth. Who to believe!? :eek:

Oh wait - we're both talking unsubstantiated boll*cks!

scudzilla

Forest Master wrote: »

See kainer2's post above. That was my point. All of the ones you listed are either busy on the dates UFC could run them (as UFC claimed) or too small for break-even.


LOL - yeah, that's definitely not hearsay.


I love how your hearsay then becomes fact a few posts later.

Well, my cousin's boyfriend has a mate who works at loads of the huge UK arenas and he says MZ is telling the truth. :rolleyes:

The dates that they have claimed? They 'claimed' that they had provisionally booked 3 venues for events, and if they'd sat back in January they probably could have had any Arena in the country at any time so you're argument there holds no bounds.

Marshall HAS repeatedly lied, he has stated on numerous occasions that some good news is coming but it never did

the_doctor199

the_doctor199 wrote: »

This is very true, I've always wondered how a Strikeforce show would do in the UK.

MrStuffins wrote: »

UFC know how to market! A Strikeforce show would probably go down as a "UFC presents: Strikeforce" and they would put some recognisable names up there. They're play on the "Former UFC Champion" thing that SF used to love doing before Zuffa took over. I think it would do quite well!

Should probably have said Strikeforce before the Zuffa takeover.

Forest Master

scudzilla wrote: »

The dates that they have claimed? They 'claimed' that they had provisionally booked 3 venues for events, and if they'd sat back in January they probably could have had any Arena in the country at any time so you're argument there holds no bounds.

Marshall HAS repeatedly lied, he has stated on numerous occasions that some good news is coming but it never did

I haven't been following the situation, TBH, and I obviously don't know if MZ is lying or not, but neither do you. There are all sorts of factors involved that people ITT are clearly ignorant to. kainer2 knows what's involved because Cage Warriors have been running shows for years in mid to large sized UK venues. He knows what involved first-hand - I trust his opinion more than the hearsay & "it's disgraceful" brigade ITT who haven't a clue and think it's so easy to "just book sumwhere - sure ders loadza places, lol1"

And I never said MZ was telling the truth - I don't even know exactly what he said - I admitted I didn't closely follow it - what I am saying is that it's not easy to just "run somewhere, anywhere, FFS!" as people are making out. Kainer2's post broke down every venue in that list, and 60% of them are too small, 15% are not nice to run, 10% are too far out of the way, and 15% are very busy & 'could' be booked on the dates they wanted. And keep in mind that UFC also have US dates booked (including SF now), so any UK/Ireland shows would also have to work around those existing dates (and there are probably some not announced yet), and it doesn't leave very many free Saturday's left in the year.
The criteria are a Saturday without a UFC PPV, Spike or Versus special or any Strikeforce shows. The UK venue must be free on that Saturday - so that's NOT a lot of dates! And there are only really 2 or 3 viable places to choose from in the first place: MEN, O2 Arena, O2 Dublin, and maybe 1 more.

scudzilla

Forest Master wrote: »

I haven't been following the situation, TBH, and I obviously don't know if MZ is lying or not, but neither do you. There are all sorts of factors involved that people ITT are clearly ignorant to. kainer2 knows what's involved because Cage Warriors have been running shows for years in mid to large sized UK venues. He knows what involved first-hand - I trust his opinion more than the hearsay & "it's disgraceful" brigade ITT who haven't a clue and think it's so easy to "just book sumwhere - sure ders loadza places, lol1"

And I never said MZ was telling the truth - I don't even know exactly what he said - I admitted I didn't closely follow it - what I am saying is that it's not easy to just "run somewhere, anywhere, FFS!" as people are making out. Kainer2's post broke down every venue in that list, and 60% of them are too small, 15% are not nice to run, 10% are too far out of the way, and 15% are very busy & 'could' be booked on the dates they wanted. And keep in mind that UFC also have US dates booked (including SF now), so any UK/Ireland shows would also have to work around those existing dates (and there are probably some not announced yet), and it doesn't leave very many free Saturday's left in the year.
The criteria are a Saturday without a UFC PPV, Spike or Versus special or any Strikeforce shows. The UK venue must be free on that Saturday - so that's NOT a lot of dates! And there are only really 2 or 3 viable places to choose from in the first place: MEN, O2 Arena, O2 Dublin, and maybe 1 more.

They didn't find it difficult to book these Arena's when they were under contract to Setanta to provide a minimum of 4 Events per year in the GMT timezone.

Since Setanta went tits up it's suddenly become more or less impossible to book an Arena in the UK even with 4 months notice!

Xlami

Forest Master wrote: »

And I never said MZ was telling the truth - I don't even know exactly what he said - I admitted I didn't closely follow it - what I am saying is that it's not easy to just "run somewhere, anywhere, FFS!" as people are making out. Kainer2's post broke down every venue in that list, and 60% of them are too small, 15% are not nice to run, 10% are too far out of the way, and 15% are very busy & 'could' be booked on the dates they wanted. And keep in mind that UFC also have US dates booked (including SF now), so any UK/Ireland shows would also have to work around those existing dates (and there are probably some not announced yet), and it doesn't leave very many free Saturday's left in the year.
The criteria are a Saturday without a UFC PPV, Spike or Versus special or any Strikeforce shows. The UK venue must be free on that Saturday - so that's NOT a lot of dates! And there are only really 2 or 3 viable places to choose from in the first place: MEN, O2 Arena, O2 Dublin, and maybe 1 more.

It looks like yourself and Kainer2 know your stuff about the specific venues and a lot more than myself so I can't argue that getting them isn't an issue. The point I want to make though is that this is the ****ing UFC. The Premier League of MMA. With a president who always spoke about his long term vision of MMA and saw it as an international event. I'm a huge DW fan but am disappointed in him ATM. As I said they are the elite organisation in the world and have some cards that are roughly planned a year in advance. What I'm saying is that you'd expect the UFC not to be in this position where a few months away from their planned even they are scrambling to find a venue and look set to disappoint fans.

MrStuffins

kainer2 wrote: »

Royal Albert Hall - Capacity around 4000-5000 (Too small and doesn't want MMA events there)

Olympia, Earls Court - Aren't really suitable venues as the seats will have to be brought in from elsewhere and have horrendously busy schedules as they are primarily exhibition centres. Cage Rage did a show at Earls Court and everyone associated with it hated it.

Wembley Arena - With the cage is probably less than 10,000 = too small and it's not THAT great a venue

If you are gonna go to London you use the o2

You're talking sh*te!

Olympia and Earls Court 1&2 are very suitable!

With Wembley Arena, the cage would NOT make the capacity smaller, just like it didnt make the seating capacity smaller for the Dublin O2.

and as for "If you are gonna go to London you use the o2", what a load of clownery! I was asked for other suitable venues, you got them!

There are venues all over the UK and AGAIN, not even to mention the Football and other sports stadia (Upton Park held the Mitchell v Katsedis title fight not so long ago).

Venues are of an abundance and are not hard to book! He's telling porkies and frankly you're ridiculously naive to believe him.

DrPhilG

kainer2 wrote: »

Also the UFC did struggle to sell a little in the UK during the recession. Their event in Feb 09 in the O2 drew 13,000. Down from 17-18.

That's a BS example. UFC 95 didn't struggle for sales due to the recession, it struggled because it was headlines by Joe Stevenson vs Diego Sanchez!

DrPhilG

The Bored One wrote: »

Anyone any details on how much the time difference messes with their PPV sales when the UFC do shows abroad? Just curious cause its likely a factor.

They rarely have European shows on PPV, they do them on Spike TV in the States on tape delay because they rarely break 300k on PPV due to the time difference and crap cards.

DrPhilG

Forest Master wrote: »

LOL - yeah, that's definitely not hearsay.

So what if it's hearsay, does that mean it's wrong? The guy gave the specific example of Duran Duran rescheduling within a few weeks. The other fella from FC follows the Nottingham ice hockey team and says that they usually get about 6-8 matches per season rescheduled at short notice because someone wants to book the arena, and the hockey team aren't prepared to pay the fee to have exclusivity. The Nottingham Panthers fixtures are due out this month, so all the UFC has to do is pick a Saturday that the Panthers are at home and go book it. You telling me that not a single one of those Saturdays will suit Spike TV?

My comments are as much heresay as Marshall saying they can't find a venue. He's been talking out of his arse for the past year, so why should we suddenly take his word as gospel, when it simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny?

Forest Master wrote: »

Oh wait - we're both talking unsubstantiated boll*cks!

So if I'm just talking boll*cks, answer the question I've asked repeatedly, both here and on MZ's facebook page without a response.

scudzilla wrote: »

They didn't find it difficult to book these Arena's when they were under contract to Setanta to provide a minimum of 4 Events per year in the GMT timezone.

The UFC faced exactly the same obstacles then as they do now. But then they managed to run 4 events a year without any issue. Now suddenly it's impossible. They are saying that Spike TV moved the scheduled date. That's a valid excuse to drop 1 event, or more realistically move it. It doesn't account for 12 months of inactivity after setting goals of 4-6 events and promising at least 1.

Forest Master

DrPhilG wrote: »

That's a BS example. UFC 95 didn't struggle for sales due to the recession, it struggled because it was headlines by Joe Stevenson vs Diego Sanchez!

And this is what I'm referring to by you not understanding other factors involved. You make a lot of noise, but you don't grasp business logistics or the viability of running certain markets.
It's a delicate balance picking a main event for the international and Spike/Versus/Fight Night shows, because they can't use their huge stars because they get paid too much guaranteed and some are on a PPV cut - so they need to use "B" stars, and that limits their options for these shows' main events, as the fighters need to be ready for that date & both need to be in the same weight class. Gone are the days of using their top guys to break into the market - that was a loss-leader for PR purposes (even though Liddell didn't make it, he was scheduled to fight on one of the early UK shows when he was a top name).
Yes, they struggled because it was headlined by Joe Stevenson vs Diego Sanchez, but you're not getting much better than that as your main event going forward, unless it's a huge Bisping title fight and that'll happen once if at all.

And to reiterate; I'm not saying they couldn't have ran a show this year or gotten a venue - I'm merely pointing out the reasons as to why it's not as easy as you think to "just feckin run somewhere" and why they can't just have Lesnar vs Cain in the London or Dublin O2 for costing reasons, and that the date also needs to work for them between their other booked PPV & Fight Night shows in North America, and that there are many other logistics involved in running shows that you clearly have no idea about. They could be full of sh*t - but you can't say that as convinced as you are because you're giving no consideration to the factors I listed above, not to mention the factors I didn't list or I'm not aware of either.

And Mr.Stuffins - I'll let kainer2 reply re the venues, as he's more familiar with them than I am.

BTW - I don't know kainer2 - I just know he works for Cage Warriors because he said it on here a few weeks back, and I know where they have run before, and that he'd know the UK venues quiet well, etc.

Forest Master

DrPhilG wrote: »

The other fella from FC follows the Nottingham ice hockey team and says that they usually get about 6-8 matches per season rescheduled at short notice because someone wants to book the arena, and the hockey team aren't prepared to pay the fee to have exclusivity. The Nottingham Panthers fixtures are due out this month, so all the UFC has to do is pick a Saturday that the Panthers are at home and go book it. You telling me that not a single one of those Saturdays will suit Spike TV?

The National Ice Centre is barely 10k when configured for max capacity. UFC would lose money if they ran it. They probably need around 10k people to break even, so they'd be dumb to run anything that's even near 10k, because why would they want to just break even?

DrPhilG

Forest Master wrote: »

You make a lot of noise, but you don't grasp business logistics or the viability of running certain markets.

You're a charmer, I'll give you that...

So if the UFC are being completely honest, and it couldn't be avoided due to the immense difficulties of securing venues, answer my previous question.

Forest Master wrote: »

I'm merely pointing out the reasons as to why it's not as easy as you think to "just feckin run somewhere"

I don't remember ever saying that.

Forest Master wrote: »

and that there are many other logistics involved in running shows that you clearly have no idea about.

Back to it again then. Answer the question.

Post 31
Post 43 last paragraph
Post 71
Post 76 last paragraph

Since you know soooo much more than me, please answer. All these logistical nightmares were the same when the UFC were with Setanta but they managed to secure arenas with no problems.

It's nothing to do with using top fighters. It would be easy to headline with Bisping. There's plenty of mid level names getting on a bit who'd jump at the chance to headline an event, W Silva, Franklin, Hughes. The hardcore fans are sick of the sight of Bisping but casual fans will still come in because he's British. Cro Cop has 1 more fight left and would gladly fight in Europe, great co-main event.

With the WEC merge they're in a better position than ever to give us a title fight because the FW and BW champions are not yet as highly paid or high profile as the rest, so they'd be giving the UK/Ireland their title fight without sacrificing a big PPV draw to a low selling event.

The Bored One

scudzilla wrote: »

i know where you're coming from but that's not really the point, the first card they had here for a few years was 70, followed by 72,75,80,85,90,93,99 & 105, they knew about the time difference but still promised us events.

They can't really turn round now and blame the time difference can they?

Its not so much whether they'll blame it so much as that they will go where the profit is. They're willing to accept short term loss for long term gain in terms of opening up markets etc but since they've done shows in this part of the world already, there is less urgency to do them here now. So they probably factor in when to do shows here based on when they can afford to make the loss most easily.
Given the way shows fluctuate, big name fighters pulling out due to injury etc thats gonna mess with their projections and I'd say whenever that happens priority for a show on this side of the world drops down a bit or gets put back on the shelf.
This isn't a defence of the company by the way, merely pointing out at the end of the day, its a business, its run like a business, and it has been done so fairly obviously for quite some time. Why waste time getting upset about it when they act like one?

Also someone made a point about just having Bisping headlining. The fact that he's doing TUF sorta removes him from availability for a while as well..

the_doctor199

Marshal on the ESPN podcast Link

Edit: Just listened to it, didn't really tell me anything that the other articles hadn't told me.